One man took 12 ga 3.5 inch TSS to the face at 30 yards and survived. No excuse for this.
https://www.goerie.com/story/sports/outdoors/2025/05/22/pa-hunter-explains-how-he-was-mistakingly-shot-for-a-turkey-game-commission-investigates-3-shootings/83795475007/?fbclid=IwY2xjawKcdApleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBicmlkETE1N1A3U3U0TUcyd3N0QW1UAR5xUfCc9Mj6brxPuRnWsabvll_Dj6WG1zVB4mn80V605nLBabFhhSPGprLZNQ_aem_WTkC2S_wanvGq47qkJ4Y4w
It happens every year .... having hunted most of my life this always this al
makes me wonder what are people thinking
I really can't believe how you can mis-identified a HUNTER as a TURKEY...
Quote from: Lcmacd 58 on May 22, 2025, 06:30:47 PMIt happens every year .... having hunted most of my life this always this al
makes me wonder what are people thinking
Either they aren't thinking or how they "think" is the problem. I think seasoned hunters have a hard time conceiving how these things happen.
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I thought Pa, you had to wear orange while moving?
Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on May 22, 2025, 06:35:36 PMQuote from: Lcmacd 58 on May 22, 2025, 06:30:47 PMIt happens every year .... having hunted most of my life this always this al
makes me wonder what are people thinking
Either they aren't thinking or how they "think" is the problem. I think seasoned hunters have a hard time conceiving how these things happen.
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My mind does not wrap around how this can happen. Every turkey i ever shot I was waiting, identifying, waiting for the shot. is his head still is he out of strut am I on his cockels ect. These guys are just slinging shots at whatever they see. Glad to hear the victims survived.
Quote from: YoungGobbler on May 22, 2025, 06:35:04 PMI really can't believe how you can mis-identified a HUNTER as a TURKEY...
They're not identifying anything and there's no excuse for it but it happens every year in multiple states.
Always the same way, hunter mistaken for a turkey.
Been quite a few on this forum have been shot.
Several have posted their stories in past.
Guy had probably been calling, heard turkey gobbling like the victim did, caught movement from that direction, maybe saw some skin showing the white of hunters face for instance
No excuse. But time and time again it's proven some hunters will shoot at movement or what they thought was a turkey.
Private land is never as private as you think it is.
Quote from: 3bailey3 on May 22, 2025, 08:56:47 PMI thought Pa, you had to wear orange while moving?
That got eliminated years ago.
BUT.......
PA law states that spring birds MUST BE IDENTIFIED AS BEING BEARDED AND MUST BE CALLED TO YOUR LOCATION. No bushwhacking. No stalking. CALLED. TO YOU.
It's mind-boggling.
It seems mind boggling, however it seems generally an experienced hunter is the shooter!
My little pea brain can't wrap around it but it does happen. My wife got sprayed last year while we were on a private farm surrounded by posted land. They shot her flopping bird, in her direction, and did a grab and run. I was pig biting mad, but couldn't catch up to them before they got to theil truck and pulled off. Scary thing when pellets rip by your face. I got 3 #5 lead in the face while pheasant hunting 40 years ago. It is a scary thing. Be safe everyone. :jesus-cross: :jesus-cross: :smiley-patriotic-flagwaver-an :smiley-patriotic-flagwaver-an Z
More than once I've tried to get an answer to the PA stalking rule. Is trying to slip into a good calling position considered stalking?. Would hate to think if I heard a distant gobble I couldn't try and close the distance before calling. Wife's PA hunting cousins answer to this are ambiguous at best. Please don't say "officer's discretion".
Add - peer pressure can make some do stupid things. Never seen a hunting accident of this type where the shooter was female. Guys just hate to think they would be the only one at the VFW that didn't score on a gobbler. Also many, not all, occur late in the season when time is running short and eating a tag seems unacceptable. IMO that's why most incidents involve experienced hunters.
Quote from: Yoder409 on May 22, 2025, 10:06:50 PMQuote from: 3bailey3 on May 22, 2025, 08:56:47 PMI thought Pa, you had to wear orange while moving?
That got eliminated years ago.
BUT.......
PA law states that spring birds ......MUST BE CALLED TO YOUR LOCATION. No bushwhacking. CALLED TO YOU.
It's mind-boggling.
That was never true and it has recently been clarified. You do not need to call to turkeys to legally kill them. You can sit in silence or shoot one as you see it while walking down a logging road. Heck, you can shoot one off the roost as long as it's legal shooting hours.
What you can't do is hear or see turkeys and sneak up on them in order to shoot them directly. No crawling, stalking, reaping......
Still ambiguous - would trying to close the distance on a gobbling bird be considered stalking? On a clear still morning with my Game Ears I'm sure I can hear one at 1/4 mile maybe more. Normally given the right conditions I would try and cut that distance considerably before picking a tree, setting up the Funky Chicken and sitting down to call. Is that stalking?
The PGC loves to leave things open to interpretation. I call the Game Code the 50 shades of gray book because there are so many "gotcha" phrases in it.
If moving closer to a gobbling bird is stalking, I've been a criminal my whole life.
One of the biggest misconceptions with Pa hunters is that you "must call a turkey to your location." That is absolutely untrue. I mean that's the essence of turkey hunting and the most fun way to do it, but setting up a silent ambush or just suddenly walking into a turkey and killing it is not illegal.
You do not have to possess a call, use a call, or make any noises whatsoever to kill a Spring gobbler legally in Pa.
Quote from: joey46 on May 23, 2025, 07:03:13 AMStill ambiguous - would trying to close the distance on a gobbling bird be considered stalking? On a clear still morning with my Game Ears I'm sure I can hear one at 1/4 mile maybe more. Normally given the right conditions I would try and cut that distance considerably before picking a tree, setting up the Funky Chicken and sitting down to call. Is that stalking?
My most successful hunts are when using terrain to my advantage to get within what I called the "red zone" or his "bubble" before I start talking to him. Usually under 75 yards if I can manage it. Sometimes much closer. I'm often making one short series of calls and getting my gun up expecting him to be there within seconds.
Is that "stalking"? Well.........that's open to interpretation unfortunately
I took the Indiana Hunter Education Course in'93 when it first started even though I was grandfathered in due to age. I took it because my buddy and I were planning on going out west to hunt and whatever state we were looking at required it.
The CO teaching it was a good friend of my buddy and I had hunted with him on several occasions. He later went on to become a higher up in the enforcement division. Several times during the course people presented hypothetical scenarios to him asking what the rule of law would be and most of the time he would answer "it's up to the CO who you are dealing with". Of course, if you get a ticket you don't have to just pay it you can go to court and fight it.
Not a good answer for those of us that like cut and dry/black and white answers.
That's why I was hoping it wasn't a "officer discretion" situation. When I lived in KY took the hunter safety course at Ft. Campbell. Couldn't hunt there without it or a qualifying safety course. Keep my certificate in my license wallet.
The PA regulation states "No Stalking. Hunting by calling only."
If you hear a bird at 200 yards, and close the distance by 100 yards, that isn't stalking. If you try to maneuver within shotgun distance instead to snipe him without making a call, you stalked.
Stalking is what happened to a good buddy, he set out his jake and hen decoy to do blind calling. Another hunter hearing the yelping above him, stalked into the setup without calling himself once, and upon seeing the jake decoy he shot it. The payload carried beyond the dekes striking my buddy at about 75 yards. Fortunately he was wearing his prescription safety glasses from work, it saved his eyes.
Unfortunately, being successful is determined by killing a turkey, and most will abandon commence sense and sometimes legalities to make that happen. I have had at least 5-6 gobblers shot out from under me by guys stalking in and popping them with rifles. Function over form. Be careful, gents. Ain't no turkey worth your life.
Unfortunately I have no sympathy for a hunter shooting a human being mistaken them for a turkey. They should serve jail time, pay tremendous fines for injuries, and never hunt and FISH in any state in the United States for life. I'm sorry, but these occurrences are not accidents, they are belligerent ignorance of game laws and total disregard for hunter safety and human life. This is my opinion here as an ex-hunter Ed instructor for over 15 years. We made it very clear that hunting is a privilege, and that safety is paramount when going afield. We imprinted "Know your target and beyond" in our students brain, hoping incidents like these would never happen. God bless these victims and their families. Be safe...
Quote from: paboxcall on May 23, 2025, 12:31:52 PMThe PA regulation states "No Stalking. Hunting by calling only."
Save your time.
At one time, I believe I posted a screenshot of the actual wording and section, etc straight from the PA code book.
Ain't doing it again. Too many lawyers trying to armchair interpret what is brutally plain language.
I did not watch or read but I think anyone who accidentally shoots someone unless that person was off in the distance and gets hit by shot should be locked up. I bet if a few dozen people got 5 years this problem would be solved. This is no way no how an accident. People do not look like anything we can legally hunt.
Quote from: mikejd on May 23, 2025, 07:57:22 PMI bet if a few dozen people got 5 years this problem would be solved.
TOTALLY agreed !!!
The only way to modify bad behavior is to make the price of said behavior higher than folks are willing to pay.
Some old saying about killing a fly with a sledgehammer ain't so much about the fly you're killing as it is about the flies that are watching.
There is no way anyone who mistakes a person for a bird should ever be able to hunt again. Or even fish for that matter. $300 fine, are you kidding me?
Quote from: Tom007 on May 23, 2025, 05:52:13 PMUnfortunately I have no sympathy for a hunter shooting a human being mistaken them for a turkey. They should serve jail time, pay tremendous fines for injuries, and never hunt and FISH in any state in the United States for life. I'm sorry, but these occurrences are not accidents, they are belligerent ignorance of game laws and total disregard for hunter safety and human life. This is my opinion here as an ex-hunter Ed instructor for over 15 years. We made it very clear that hunting is a privilege, and that safety is paramount when going afield. We imprinted "Know your target and beyond" in our students brain, hoping incidents like these would never happen. God bless these victims and their families. Be safe...
Yes. I agree !
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Quote from: Zobo on May 23, 2025, 10:16:00 PMThere is no way anyone who mistakes a person for a bird should ever be able to hunt again. Or even fish for that matter. $300 fine, are you kidding me?
Welcome to PA. ::)
$300 is the fine for littering, here.
So shooting a man = tossing a burger wrapper out the car window.
Can't make this stuff up.
Where is this $300 fine info coming from?
For the third year in a row be telling the wife's cousins near State Game land 3xx, 3xx and 3xx maybe next year. After seeing these differing opinions on what is stalking I'll go with the gobble?? What gobble? I'm just walking around. Seriously any regulation with this much differing opinions is basically worthless IMO. Maybe as we'll intentioned as the old orange cap switcheroo but as universally ignored as a 55mph speed limit from what I'm reading here and hearing elsewhere. Good luck PA this last week. You've had a rainy season.
Hope these accidents don't result in a mandatory orange pants regulation when hunting on Saturdays. Knee Jerk regulations are often just that - knee jerk.
Quote from: Yoder409 on May 23, 2025, 07:22:35 PMQuote from: paboxcall on May 23, 2025, 12:31:52 PMThe PA regulation states "No Stalking. Hunting by calling only."
Save your time.
At one time, I believe I posted a screenshot of the actual wording and section, etc straight from the PA code book.
Ain't doing it again. Too many lawyers trying to armchair interpret what is brutally plain language.
The Pennsylvania game commission would disagree with you. In the May 2025 edition of the Pennsylvania Game News there was an article that clearly spelled out what is legal and what is not during spring gobbler season.
You absolutely do not have to call or have a call with you at any time. Sitting in a location silently and waiting for a turkey to walk by is 100% legal. "Bushwhacking" if you will.
I hope that PA Game News is online. Would like to read it. Still in doubt when trying to close the distance becomes stalking. As an eternal optomist I'm sure I'll get up there sometime. Since the wife won't fly the near 1300 mile drive is daunting.
Quote from: Number17 on May 26, 2025, 11:22:57 AMQuote from: Yoder409 on May 23, 2025, 07:22:35 PMQuote from: paboxcall on May 23, 2025, 12:31:52 PMThe PA regulation states "No Stalking. Hunting by calling only."
Save your time.
At one time, I believe I posted a screenshot of the actual wording and section, etc straight from the PA code book.
Ain't doing it again. Too many lawyers trying to armchair interpret what is brutally plain language.
The Pennsylvania game commission would disagree with you. In the May 2025 edition of the Pennsylvania Game News there was an article that clearly spelled out what is legal and what is not during spring gobbler season.
You absolutely do not have to call or have a call with you at any time. Sitting in a location silently and waiting for a turkey to walk by is 100% legal. "Bushwhacking" if you will.
Page 35 of the PGC Hunting and Trapping Digest (July 1, 2024- June 30, 2025) states, NO STALKING Hunting by calling only.
Just sayin'.
Without a specific definition of stalking I'd be afraid to get out of the truck and walking into the woods on public land without first making a call or two. How is this possibly enforced? Obviously one that sneaks in and shoots someone's decoy or someone's person is stalking but is trying to slip into a close setup position on a gobbling bird before calling or just sitting in wait for this bird stalking? Never should be this much conjecture on a basic regulation.
I can remember many times, in hilly terrain, hearing a bird gobbling over a rise, been below him, then slipping uphill a ways so he'll be in range if he comes to the crest. I then would just sit down and wait for him to strut over the crest and getting a shot. Might never have needed to call or wanted to. If he's on the way in anyway I don't call. Probably took as many birds in LBL Kentucky and southern Ohio this way as any other. IMO Calling in this scenario can hang one up as easily as bring one in. He's maybe thinking she coming to me I'll just stand around and strut and strut and strut never coming any further until he gets bored and walks off.
Like I said, it's been clarified by the PGC that you do not have to call in order to be legal, so that part has been taken care of.
As for what is stalking and what is not.....that will always be discretionary to an outside observer watching you and whatever bias they might have.
I agree with you. There have been many times I've made an effort to make a huge loop to get around where I figured birds were headed. Sometimes I barely beat them there and they simply walk into you silently moments after you find a good tree. If they are coming, shut up. That's turkey hunting 101.
100% legal to kill a bird like that in the State of Pa.
It's called complacency. If you aren't comfortable with what you are doing, you pay attention. When you get to the point where you are operating on auto pilot much of the time, it's easier than one thinks to goof up. That's why most, for example, treestand accident victims are experienced hunters rather than newbies. The "can't happen to me" syndrome.
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Quote from: Number17 on May 27, 2025, 08:54:52 AMLike I said, it's been clarified by the PGC that you do not have to call in order to be legal, so that part has been taken care of.
Could you please post the source of the clarification ??
It would seem....to look at the rules digest that comes with your license and to look at the state code.... the PGC hasn't gottem that memo yet.
Very interested to read the official, published clarification.
I'll let you two fight it out. Attempted to bring up the PA Game News May 2025. Apparently one of those sites you can't read unless a subscriber. Interested but not that interested.
Might be a good time to carry one of those silent calls the Drury's (I think) were "famous " for a few years ago. Lol
pg 62 Pennsylvania Game News May 2025.
Side bar. Clarification by Jason Raup, PAGC on "By calling only"
I could post a picture but I always struggle to get a picture on this website.
Quote from: joey46 on May 27, 2025, 11:15:56 AMI'll let you two fight it out. Attempted to bring up the PA Game News May 2025. Apparently one of those sites you can't read unless a subscriber. Interesting but not that interesting.
Text me: 5 seven zero for fore won four sicks 5 five.
I'll send you some pics.
Quote from: Number17 on May 27, 2025, 11:19:13 AMQuote from: joey46 on May 27, 2025, 11:15:56 AMI'll let you two fight it out. Attempted to bring up the PA Game News May 2025. Apparently one of those sites you can't read unless a subscriber. Interesting but not that interesting.
Text me: 5 seven zero for fore won four sicks 5 five.
I'll send you some pics.
Sent you a PM. Most have picture problems on this forum. Secret is to reduce it until it's the size of a pin head.
FROM THE ARTICLE:
"Each gobbler is different and what works to draw one into gun range might not work with the next. But in general, experienced turkey hunters, many of whom are also exceptional callers, might offer this advice - don't call too much. In fact, that's often the first thing they'll point out in trying to lead a novice hunter to success.
So what can and can't you do as a turkey hunter? After all, hunting in the spring season long has been described as "by calling only." But what's that mean? First, it doesn't mean that you must make calls.
Jason Raup, Game Commission Assistant Counsel for the Bureau of Wildlife Protection, said the agency doesn t recognize the absence of calling as an unlawful method. In other words, it's perfectly OK to set up and sit there without calling, which could be to your advantage on wet mornings when turkeys might be slow to leave the roost and calls from the ground might seem suspicious.
Setting up is the important part, and likely the reason the "by calling only" language was developed. It's unlawful to stalk turkeys or turkey calls, both of which present safety concerns in a season in which camouflaged hunters are in the woods making turkey sounds.
That said, it's not unusual for turkey hunters to try to get closer to a responding gobbler, or otherwise make a move before setting up again
- especially if the bird hangs up in the distance.
All of that is legal; a hunter in such a situation is just working into a new setup. From a hunter-suc-cess standpoint, though, moving your setup always runs the risk of the turkey busting you.
In hunting seasons when fluorescent orange is not required, the use of orange is strongly recommended, especially while moving.
It's never a bad idea to keep an orange hat in your pack or vest, using it to get the attention of other hunters you might encounter."
Clears it up for me. Thank you for posting.
Well, I'll be dipped.
Seems Mr. Raup should probably have had the game code re-worded to reflect his opinion.
Or vice-versa.
Mr. Raup actually contradicts himself in this article in the first paragraph he states the following "It's unlawful to stalk turkeys or turkey calls, both of which present safety concerns in a season in which camouflaged hunters are in the woods making turkey sounds." Then in the second paragraph he states" That said, it's not unusual for turkey hunters to try to get closer to a responding gobbler, or otherwise make a move before setting up again- especially if the bird hangs up in the distance. All of that is legal; a hunter in such a situation is just working into a new setup." I guess the question would be what is a "responding gobbler"? So if you hear a gobbler and have not made a call and move on him then it would seem by the definition this is stalking. Whereas, if you have made a call and hear a bird you are permitted to move to a new location and it would not be stalking. Still seems to be confusing.
Just a IMO but most have already decided how to handle these type situations. Reasonable and proper usually wins out. Good luck PA you still have a few days left. Enjoy them.
This whole stalking thing is simple when considering the spirit of the law.
The goal is to stop you from shooting a decoy or bird with another hunter behind it.
Thus, if you sneak up and shoot a bird - Stalking.
If you sneak up to 70 and call the bird the last 30 - Not stalking.
It's obviously not fool proof, but should keep hunters at least out of lethal range of each other and shooting away from each other.
Also, just avoid Blue white and yellow license plates. Well PA, because they wont avoid you. :)
Other than calling the last 30 completely agree. If I get him to within 70 and he's headed my direction I'm going mute. Might have a mouth call in to do a heads up cluck while squeezing the trigger. Might not and will no longer worry about it.
Quote from: joey46 on May 29, 2025, 03:17:39 PMOther than calling the last 30 completely agree. If I get him to within 70 and he's headed my direction I'm going mute. Might have a mouth call in to do a heads up cluck while squeezing the trigger. Might not and will no longer worry about it.
Well. More towards the example of sneaking within 70.
I think as the turkey is the one to make the final move you're in the clear, realistically and in enforcement (if there even is any).