Morning Gents.I had an interaction with a very angry person yesterday and am meeting the warden tonight after work. Just looking for feedback.
I was hunting a Piece of private land that has been put into SELT( Southeast Land Trust). This opens the land to all lawful activities, no motorized vehicles. The abutter to this land treats it as his own. He mows a walking path to walk his dog, even though he has 9.5 acres of his own and no motorized vehicles are allowed. Personally, I really don't care. But I was on stand in the corner of the field and he came out, orange hat and vest on the dog so he knows its hunting season, and proceeded to walk right up to me. His dog was friendly but i didnt address the dog in any way and was not going to talk to this stranger as I got a bad feeling about his intentions. He approached and said" How is it going?" I replied, " I guess its ok" He immediately stepped towards me and yelled, " What did you say?" I repeated my answer more loudly and clearly. He yelled," You're not welcome here" I turned back to the woods and ignored him. 30 seconds later I hear him yelling to his dog, he is now circled back and closer to me. I asked him if he was going to do that all afternoon, his response was," Maybe I will." I responded with, " Great, that will make it easier when the wardens get here." He proceeds to yell, " You're not welcome/ you don't belong here/ you don't matter, and I don't care " in a loop. He stood 15 feet away and kept it up and said' I am the steward of this land, can't you see my walking path". I said," that is your unleased dog? walking on the path you illegally cut on public access land with a motorized vehicle." This made him sputter and stammer uncontrollably. I then pulled out my phone and he walked away yelling his favorite phrases over his shoulder . I would usually brush it off, as men do, and continue with my life. But I had a text late last night from my buddy saying the wardens wanted to talk to me.I told him to give them my number or I can meet them after work. Sorry for the length of the post. I am wondering if I should push for him to get cited. Bottom line is that if minds his own business and doesn't harass me, I couldn't care less what he does. I was smart enough to mark my position and set my onX tracker to document that I never went on his property. Just bored and curious on a monday morning, Z
I would push to get him cited as I'm sure he would do the same should you do something illegal.
Unfortunately, I think encounters with anti-hunters (and non-hunters) are becoming regular occurrences in a lot of places, even in places we would not expect them to. Far too often anymore, it seems we have to make choices like you are contemplating with this guy. If you let this incident slide, he will continue to do it. You should certainly follow through with a complaint to authorities and insist that it be made clear to this fellow that future incidents of this type will result in significant consequences.
Now, whether or not you choose to return to that public parcel to hunt, regardless of the outcome, is another matter that only you can decide for yourself. The question really comes down to "is it worth it" to have to deal with this kind of stuff. Personally, I have a tendency just to go elsewhere rather than possibly have those kinds of negative encounters with folks. Even in my state, which by most standards is sparsely-populated, there are many places I no longer hunt...even though I legally could...just because I know the possibility exists of having the same type of thing happen that you had.
Nonetheless, I would not tolerate the kind of crap you had to put up with in your encounter with this fellow. My advice is to see it through with whatever authorities might need to be involved. You might be doing this guy a favor in that the next guy he pulls this on might be less inclined to be as tolerant of his BS as you were.
I would discuss the situation with the game Warden and let him make the decision on what's next for the guy.
Show him what you have on video.. It's his job to follow up on the complaint.
I had problems with neighbors dogs on my farm and had videos, so I called my local sheriff dept and they came out and talked with the neighbor and the problem was solved. I never had to talk to the neighbor.
Unless this character is thwarted by authorities he'll continue to do to others as he did to you. So I'd press the issue.
I certainly agree with what others have said. If you do not follow up he will continue with this type of behavior toward you or others. It seems like it is a situation that he considers that property belongs to him.
More and more we are seeing this attitude of entitlement. People become self appointed custodians of other people's behavior and rights. Most peoples first inclination is to just ignore them; it's. just not worth the effort. Unfortunately, ignoring them gives them a sense of victory and encourages them to repeat this behavior. I think Greg has the right idea. This man, not you, broke the law. Report him to the game warden and let the law address it. Hopefully, it will be a case of play stupid games and win stupid prizes. I am sorry he has ruined this opportunity for you but I hope he will win his stupid prize for his actions.
You were in the right.
He was in the wrong.
Call the law and stick it to him.
Well, it ended up like it should have. He got cited for the unleashed dog, he showed up on site with the dog unleashed so it was a slam dunk. He also got cited for mowing the path with a motorized mower and he got a warning for hunter harassment and was told to not bother us again. He started to sputter and the warden said the fine for hunter harassment is up to $2500 and he clammed up, lol. The other fines could be up to $1000, $500 each but the warden said they usually get $250 for each. The guy was his worst enemy, he showed the behavior that I described in front of the warden, so I think I will be listened to if it goes any further. I think by the look on his face, he is done. Looked like a little kid that just got spanked, lol. It was worth the trip. Have fun and be safe, Z
Nail him to the wall. Straight up hunter harassment.
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Hey Z,
THANK YOU! Thank you for remaining calm during the encounter, for documenting the interaction, and for following up with law enforcement. That is such a drag that you had to deal with that when you were headed out to enjoy the woods. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Clearly this guy's wrongful sense of entitlement is infringing on the rights others (and the habitat with the mowing). You didn't just catch him on a 'bad day'. His actions needed to be firmly addressed at the earliest opportunity. Your actions, and that of the officer, hopefully will save others from a similar disappointing encounter.
I would go back there, frankly. Or maybe have one of your hunting buddies check it out (if its not a secret honey hole of yours). That guy will probably leave you alone, but he might pull the same stunt with some other hunter he doesn't recognize.
And another thing... I would consider making the owners and/or managers of that donated land aware of the encounter as well. I'll bet they would like to know about it. I sure would if I were them.
Again, thanks for what you did!
He thinks he has the right to bother you, you know you have the right to prosecute. Kudos Z, the best retribution here is to drain his wallet with fines! Well done!
I'll be there every time the wind is right. Z
Good for you Z!
It is refreshing to hear about a victory for the good guys. Congratulations and thank you for your actions.
I approach things a lot like Gobblenut, but I learned one thing; bad behavior that is not corrected usually continues or gets worse. It's easier to live at peace then war, but if someone declares war, it's time to defend your rights. I think you done exactly the right thing. I had neighbors once ask if they could clean up a little plot of trees along a creek on my place and have picnics there. I said sure, there would be no harm. Well they kept it nice for several years and then the county water line came through and they started digging in that plot to install some waterline equipment. I confronted them as to why they didn't get an agreement from me since I was the landowner. They informed me the neighbor owned it. The neighbor had tried to seize it under the clause of maintaining it, but that was short lived as I still paid taxes and maintained all the rest of the property. I officially booted them and destroyed their picnic area. Permission was not legal means for a claim. People are nuts. I made the water company move too, just for not doing their homework.
When people think they are above the law, and we are seeing this more and more today, we must stand our ground and do what needs to be done. When we accept their behavior, we are condoning that behavior, and it will continue. Z, you are taking the appropriate action. Meet with the Warden and let him intervene on your behalf. Maybe a knock on the person's door will solve the issue but don't be afraid to take it further if the individual doesn't abide by the Warden's first instructions. People in today's society think they can do what they want, when they want. Remember we have Rights, and those Rights aren't to be Trampled on either. Keep us informed as to how this plays out.
Quote from: Greg Massey on November 18, 2024, 10:26:23 AMI would discuss the situation with the game Warden and let him make the decision on what's next for the guy.
Show him what you have on video.. It's his job to follow up on the complaint.
I did exactly this with a situation with a Park Ranger and went with the investigators recommendations. I said my intent was not to punish but to ensure he did not do what he did again. The investigator was way more hard core than me.
Z, you should be thanked for what you did, not for what you will gain, but what everyone will gain that is legally entitled to enter that property. So thanks for that
Tell the truth, let the wardens decide if charges are filed. You have to be prepared to testify in court. Unlikely, especially if you videoed it. I hope you videoed him.
As soon as I got my phone out, he ran away, lol. But he was so flustered at the wardens questioning that he admitted everything, rather brazenly until the warden verbally slapped him down. He believed he could do whatever he wanted, a true believer until the authorities were there. The warden told me the same thing, don't engage and video every encounter. The warden asked if we would hunt there again this season. I said," talk to the wind" He smiled and said" Roger that". There is a new twist here now. New" No Parking" signs just showed up along the road. Not from the town, but the private Wal Mart type signs. There really is no parking access to it on the road. I wonder where they came from. But, it doesn't hinder my access as I can park in my buddy's yard and access the public land from his land. I really wish the guy would just mind his own business and live his life. It remains to be seen if he is going to be an adult here. Time will tell. Z
There's people out there that thrive on controversy. Something happened to them in their life that triggered this angry behavior. It's a shame that they just can't shake it. Good job Z, just keep using the warden to "knock him down". Eventually he will retreat....
This sort of thing has happened to me too. I had a couple of land owners who abut my land ride horses up to me while I was turkey hunting and ask what I was doing ...on my own land! These kind of people are delusional and live in a fantasy world.
String them up, this happens much too often and needs to be addressed every single time it does or it's never going to slow down or even stop. The fact that he talked about his path is another reason I'd have them busted these guys get in there and think they have the right to mess with the ecosystems driving your motorized vehicles for their own convenience a family of owls often destroying microorganisms while doing so that are valuable to the ecosystem. He's going to do again to you and he's definitely going to do it to other people especially if they're unable to speak up for themselves. I look forward to hearing about how all this went. EDIT: Just saw post above, glad to hear it.
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Too many look the other way, thank you for ensuring the rights of hunters are protected. Do be careful, as some people are vengeful
This problem is not just isolated to people who are probably against hunting like Zelmo speaks of here. Out here in the west, the few run-ins I have had have been with public-land ranchers and outfitters rather than the general public who might not take kindly to hunters. I have had both types try to run me off of public lands.
Anybody that hunts, fishes, or recreates, in general, on our public lands nowadays would be wise to always have resources with them (land-status maps or mapping apps) so they know exactly where they can go and how to get there through public-access routes. I guarantee you that there are quite a few folks out there that will try to bluff you into leaving lands that you have every right to be on.
One turkey hunter I know would not hunt a public area that was loaded with gobblers because a few landowners with small properties posted their little parcels. He could easily have accessed those turkeys by simply walking around those properties on public land, but he a) assumed he could not hunt there (for years), and b) did not bother to obtain land-status maps of the area which would have clearly shown him how to legally get to those turkeys. Every time he talked about it I would explain to him that he could hunt those birds IF he would just take the time to get the maps/apps needed so he knew how to legally get there. Then, the next time I would see him, he would still talk about how he couldn't hunt there. I got where I would just shake my head, chuckle at him, and leave it at that.
Information is power. If you know what you should, then people can't bully you. Bullies come in all shapes and sizes. Most are under the illusion that they can say whatever they want with no consequences. A very simple man I know said something recently that struck me. He said" As a race, We are dangerously close to becoming uncivilized and I see more and more people that don't realize that they are in jeopardy." Just food for thought. Z
In many cases it is pure greed. The BLM land out west a prime example. May be repeating myself from similar topics but saw versions of this in Ohio's Wayne National and Kentucky's Daniel Boone. If I were ever going to hunt either again I would have OnX and the numbers for both the game wardens and local county sheriff. Both often know of abutting landowners actions but chose to ignore it unless really pressed to do so. Even when you "win" these turf wars you always have an uneasy feeling leaving your unattended parked vehicle. A hidden game camera watching your truck always an option. Sorry it often comes to this in many places.
My hunting/fishing buddy and I have had this conversation countless times. It's centered around courtesy and outdoor respect for others. You could call it ethics, decorum or etiquette, but It boils down to character. Character has been replaced with a narcissistic selfish social construct of entitlement. The days of the golden rule have faded and the premise of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" has somehow been forgotten. I believe I have seen Gobblenut bring up the point before that we suffer from increasing user demand with rapidly shrinking availability of recreational land. Add in the "me first attitude" and you get conflict. We see this at our favorite public fishing spot, a tailwaters. People will deliberately crowd you and invade your personal space. Many come to throw cast nets to collect shad for bait. Some for personal use and some to sell them. You can be standing in place fishing and casting to a certain spot and some dude rolls up with a pull cart loaded with coolers and stop within a few feet of you and pull out a cast net and toss it right in front of you. I have had them throw it right over my line and then just glare at you as if to dare you to say anything. It's just plane rude and selfish. We also enjoy fall turkey hunting and we often hunt public land. We do all our public land hunting before the deer rut starts, because our area gets hammered by out of state hunters looking for a trophy and even locals. We have literally had them threaten to shoot us for daring to turkey hunt "their area". We have had them block the gates and put up signs. Many of them lease adjacent lands and try to bully people off both private and public. Where they get this sense of entitlement to have public all to themselves is a mystery to me. We'll never fix the broken adults, but we can impress ethics on the youth. Okay, I'm done ranting.
And I was almost ready to come back up there, bring Cuz, and have a hayday with this guy.
It looks like there may be more to the saga, lol. I had personal business this weekend but I got a report that the nice gentleman I met last sunday had a small army of his compatriots at his house this weekend and they were all out in the field metal detecting, lol. It seems he may be trying to pick a fight. All I need is an east southeast wind and we may see what he is made of, lol. To be continued, Z
Quote from: zelmo1 on November 25, 2024, 05:32:58 AMIt looks like there may be more to the saga, lol. I had personal business this weekend but I got a report that the nice gentleman I met last sunday had a small army of his compatriots at his house this weekend and they were all out in the field metal detecting, lol. It seems he may be trying to pick a fight. All I need is an east southeast wind and we may see what he is made of, lol. To be continued, Z
Yep, definitely some sort of anti-hunting group you are dealing with. Unless the state's hunter harassment law somehow closes the loopholes that allows those folks to do stuff like that, you will be dealing with this constantly on that property.
Again, my first thought is "is it worth it" to deal with that crap to be able to hunt somewhere? Of course, none of us wants to allow those people to get away with that sort of thing, but if there are not laws that prevent it, there may not be anything you can do legally to stop it.
Now, if it was me and I truly wanted to keep hunting there, I would figure out some way to access the property covertly such that this guy would not be aware that I was there at all. Certainly, he and his cohorts would tire of walking those woods every day to see if someone was there hunting. If that is not possible, I would just move on, assuming there are other places to hunt around your area. There comes a time when the aggravation is just not worth it.
They may be breaking the law once again. I copied this from the SELTNH.org website.
Permission Required
Metal detectors
Permission may be granted for use for scientific or historic research under the supervision of SELT staff.
My guess is they are not performing scientific or historic research and were not supervised by SELT staff. FYI
Thank you for that nugget brother. I will be there over the next 5 days. Just waiting for the right conditions. Z
Stories like this sometimes make me wish for the good old days. Friend of mine years ago told me about his uncle, who, along with a younger companion, drove to either Nebraska or South Dakota to coon hunt. This was probably around 1960. His uncle was a big man, but was getting older and had some type of infirmity, possibly a bad hip, so he couldn't walk much. This was back in the days of good fur prices.
They secured permission to hunt a large property, parking on a public road. They let the dogs out, and they treed some distance from the road. His uncle told the younger guy with him to go kill the coon and fetch the dogs and he would wait at the truck.
Shortly after he left, a pickup came roaring down the gravel road and slid to a halt behind his truck. The guy rolled down his window, but didn't get out, so his uncle walked up to his door and asked if he could help him. The guy started in telling him that so and so owned the land on the right side of the road and didn't allow hunting. My friend's uncle says that's not a problem, because we're not hunting there, but instead on the other side of the road. The local guy just kept on mouthing about you can't hunt here and the uncle again explained that they were not hunting there and that as soon as his buddy got back to the truck with the coon and dogs, they would be on their way.
Well, the guy just kept running his mouth and my friend's uncle, I think his name was Dave, finally told him he needed to leave and not come back, or he was going to have a problem.
The guy turned around and left, but soon came flying back down the road and once again stopped behind Dave's truck, and this time had a passenger. Dave walked up to the driver's side window and the guy proceeded to tell him that his passenger was so and so, that he owned the land on the right side of the road and that he didn't want them hunting there. The supposed landowner never said a word. Dave, once again, explained the situation, but the idiot behind the wheel just kept running his mouth. Dave told the guy that he could see he was a coon hunter because of the dog box in his truck, and wanted to show him one of his dogs that was still in his truck.
Dave stepped back, and when the guy opened the door and stepped out, Dave caught him with a left hook, his head between fist and door frame, dropping him to the ground, out cold.
The passenger began fumbling around underneath the seat as if trying to retrieve a weapon, so Dave went to his truck and grabbed a tire tool out of the bed. When the guy began to step out of the truck, Dave caught him with a glancing blow to the side of the head, tearing his ear mostly off, but he began yelling, so Dave whacked him again, rendering him unconscious.
About that time, his hunting buddy came out of the woods carrying the coon with the dogs in tow. Dave told him to not ask any questions, just load up the dogs and get in the truck. They headed for Missouri, stopping only to get gas.
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Never ever in any circumstance is violence an appropriate reaction. Self defense is the only reason and then the law says only to the extend that you can safely flee or secure yourself.
Yea - but it was as great story. Lol.
Oh Joey I grew up in a community where coon hunting was a business, some of those ole boys were pure harcore bad arses. I wouldn't have dared to get pushy with many of them. Most of them would have put you on your but just like he did. Kind of like the Jim CRoce song, You Don't mess around with JIm
Here's one for discussion, watch and give your thoughts on who's at fault?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHzW0iIIiK8