I'm looking at making a run out to MD for the winter season and wondered if anyone has any suggestions. Would also consider VA,WV,IN,OH, or PA.
I've only fall hunted out west but don't have any problem with birds once I have them located.
Ohio is in now and over this weekend, Oct 27th. No winter season. Ky has a 7 day season coming this Saturday and then a second session the first week of December. In the mountains, birds can be hard to find. Also the mountains of Va and West Va took a lot of damage in hurricane Helene, lots of down timber.
Im glad they stopped rifle use in the fall in Pa.
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Quote from: Tree sleeper on December 31, 2024, 10:13:35 AMIm glad they stopped rifle use in the fall in Pa.
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I'm not, I have a nice .40 cal. Flintlock I liked to occasionally use.
Quote from: crow on February 08, 2025, 04:43:55 PMQuote from: Tree sleeper on December 31, 2024, 10:13:35 AMIm glad they stopped rifle use in the fall in Pa.
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I'm not, I have a nice .40 cal. Flintlock I liked to occasionally use.
I use a flintlock in fall also. I do not consider that a rifle, like when guys shoot 150-200 yards at a turkey.
A flintlock is not necessarily considered a rifle on its own, but rather a type of ignition mechanism that can be used on various firearms
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I'm familiar with the whole flintlock thing, that's why I put the .40 cal in there.
I also hunt with a smooth bore flint.
There was no science to back up dropping rifles from the fall season
Quote from: crow on February 08, 2025, 04:43:55 PMQuote from: Tree sleeper on December 31, 2024, 10:13:35 AMIm glad they stopped rifle use in the fall in Pa.
I'm not, I have a nice .40 cal. Flintlock I liked to occasionally use.
Me either. I liked carrying my .32 cal Blackhawk in the fall.
Quote from: paboxcall on February 08, 2025, 05:32:23 PMQuote from: crow on February 08, 2025, 04:43:55 PMQuote from: Tree sleeper on December 31, 2024, 10:13:35 AMIm glad they stopped rifle use in the fall in Pa.
I'm not, I have a nice .40 cal. Flintlock I liked to occasionally use.
Me either. I liked carrying my .32 cal Blackhawk in the fall.
Did u read what I wrote above?
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Quote from: crow on February 08, 2025, 05:00:50 PMI'm familiar with the whole flintlock thing, that's why I put the .40 cal in there.
I also hunt with a smooth bore flint.
There was no science to back up dropping rifles from the fall season
Per game commission.
The Pennsylvania Game Commission removed rifles from fall turkey hunting to protect the turkey population, as they deemed rifles too effective and capable of harvesting a disproportionate number of birds, particularly hens, which can negatively impact the overall turkey population, even though relatively few hunters used them; hunters can now only use shotguns and archery equipment during the fall turkey season
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Quote from: Tree sleeper on February 08, 2025, 05:49:19 PMDid u read what I wrote above?
PGC banned all single projectile firearms, not just rifles. The ban includes blackpowder and handguns.
Did u read the regulation?
Quote from: Tree sleeper on February 08, 2025, 05:54:46 PMQuote from: crow on February 08, 2025, 05:00:50 PMI'm familiar with the whole flintlock thing, that's why I put the .40 cal in there.
I also hunt with a smooth bore flint.
There was no science to back up dropping rifles from the fall season
Per game commission.
The Pennsylvania Game Commission removed rifles from fall turkey hunting to protect the turkey population, as they deemed rifles too effective and capable of harvesting a disproportionate number of birds, particularly hens, which can negatively impact the overall turkey population, even though relatively few hunters used them; hunters can now only use shotguns and archery equipment during the fall turkey season
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I've read this before, just don't believe it was based on any kind of realistic facts.
It's politics, or somebody's pet peeve/ personal agenda.
Can't tell you the last time I even ran into a fall turkey hunter when I was hunting. The turkeys killed by rifles is a tiny percentage of what is going to kill turkeys.
Most of the time I favor a shotgun, just don't like having more gov. Shoved down our throats
Quote from: paboxcall on February 08, 2025, 10:07:01 PMQuote from: Tree sleeper on February 08, 2025, 05:49:19 PMDid u read what I wrote above?
PGC banned all single projectile firearms, not just rifles. The ban includes blackpowder and handguns.
Did u read the regulation?
Many times, u can still use your flinter with shot. Everyone is looking for easy harvests.
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Quote from: Tree sleeper on February 09, 2025, 05:08:07 PMQuote from: paboxcall on February 08, 2025, 10:07:01 PMQuote from: Tree sleeper on February 08, 2025, 05:49:19 PMDid u read what I wrote above?
PGC banned all single projectile firearms, not just rifles. The ban includes blackpowder and handguns.
Did u read the regulation?
Many times, u can still use your flinter with shot. Everyone is looking for easy harvests.
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Did u read what I wrote?
Before the PGC made their unscientific, political-driven decision to ban single projectile weapons during the fall season, I was using a handgun with a 5.5" barrel, not a flintlock. And during those hunts, had I chosen a shotgun instead, there'd been many more fall tags filled. The shotgun would have been the easy harvest, now that there's irony.
Here's more irony. Northcentral PA has enjoyed three consecutive springs with favorable weather during nesting periods, and the fall flocks are up. Purely coincidentally, the unscientific rifle ban has been in place for three fall seasons. Pretty confident the PGC erroneously draws an unscientific correlation between this favorable weather pattern and their rifle ban, LOL.
Here's some science from the PGC themselves:
Archery hunters annually account for 11% of the fall turkey harvest, according to the PGC own 2018-2027 wild turkey management plan.
If the PGC is scientifically convinced of the strongest statistical correlation between weapon choice and fall turkey harvest success, prompting them to act immediately, well, why not also ban crossbows and compounds too? Scientific data shows archers harvest about 1,100 fall turkeys in PA every year. Is 1,100 every year scientifically acceptable?
But, no, the PGC chose to only ban single projective weapons, which included handguns and muzzleloaders, all to scientifically save birds. Scientifically speaking, in that same PGC management plan, handguns and flintlocks combined accounted for 0.5% of the average annual fall harvest in PA. Let me fill in the blank here, 0.5% was 54 turkeys harvested in the fall of 2016, the last year of data collected.
So 1,100 is OK, but 54 is scientifically unacceptable? Think politics might factor in here...?
Put 54 in context. Did you ever ponder how many turkeys are run over on the turnpike, I99, and I80 every spring as winter flocks disperse? Think more than 54?
Data is data, and PGC published its '18-'27 management plan with agency goals, none of which in 2018 argued for a single projectile ban. Yet, in 2021 / 2022, the PGC reversed agency course, decided to conveniently set aside their scientific data, and ban all single projectile weapons to save the turkeys.
So why the ban on guns, but not crossbows and compounds? That is the scientific question. Someone somewhere wanted rifles gone in the fall as a policy, and the PGC elected to go against its own scientific data and bend their knee to that outside interest.
Its just science. Or maybe its just politics. Maybe someone in Harrisburg got a kickback to advance a policy goal over a scientific goal. We'll never know.
Well said
Quote from: paboxcall on February 09, 2025, 06:03:59 PMHere's some science from the PGC themselves:
Archery hunters annually account for 11% of the fall turkey harvest, according to the PGC own 2018-2027 wild turkey management plan.
If the PGC is scientifically convinced of the strongest statistical correlation between weapon choice and fall turkey harvest success, prompting them to act immediately, well, why not also ban crossbows and compounds too? Scientific data shows archers harvest about 1,100 fall turkeys in PA every year. Is 1,100 every year scientifically acceptable?
But, no, the PGC chose to only ban single projective weapons, which included handguns and muzzleloaders, all to scientifically save birds. Scientifically speaking, in that same PGC management plan, handguns and flintlocks combined accounted for 0.5% of the average annual fall harvest in PA. Let me fill in the blank here, 0.5% was 54 turkeys harvested in the fall of 2016, the last year of data collected.
So 1,100 is OK, but 54 is scientifically unacceptable? Think politics might factor in here...?
Put 54 in context. Did you ever ponder how many turkeys are run over on the turnpike, I99, and I80 every spring as winter flocks disperse? Think more than 54?
Data is data, and PGC published its '18-'27 management plan with agency goals, none of which in 2018 argued for a single projectile ban. Yet, in 2021 / 2022, the PGC reversed agency course, decided to conveniently set aside their scientific data, and ban all single projectile weapons to save the turkeys.
So why the ban on guns, but not crossbows and compounds? That is the scientific question. Someone somewhere wanted rifles gone in the fall as a policy, and the PGC elected to go against its own scientific data and bend their knee to that outside interest.
Its just science. Or maybe its just politics. Maybe someone in Harrisburg got a kickback to advance a policy goal over a scientific goal. We'll never know.
Go to the meetings like I do. It's just like having inlines in the after Christmas late season. I'm not wild about that. I do not mind flintlocks in fall turkey with a projectile, I said I do not want rifles shooting 3000 fps that's not what flinters do.
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Quote from: Tree sleeper on February 10, 2025, 05:17:14 PMGo to the meetings like I do. It's just like having inlines in the after Christmas late season. I'm not wild about that. I do not mind flintlocks in fall turkey with a projectile, I said I do not want rifles shooting 3000 fps that's not what flinters do.
I've sent the equivalent of the above data to the commissioners. Falls on deaf ears. I don't think my pockets are as deep as the NWTF, who's policy agenda, coincidentally or not, aligns with the PGC decision on single projectiles.
That is why this decision wasn't science based.
So if the PGC is wholly susceptible to 3rd party lobbying influence...what other decisions are they making which are policy driven rather than science driven....policy over science is a slippery slope, and not just in wildlife management.
Quote from: paboxcall on February 10, 2025, 05:29:22 PMQuote from: Tree sleeper on February 10, 2025, 05:17:14 PMGo to the meetings like I do. It's just like having inlines in the after Christmas late season. I'm not wild about that. I do not mind flintlocks in fall turkey with a projectile, I said I do not want rifles shooting 3000 fps that's not what flinters do.
I've sent the equivalent of the above data to the commissioners. Falls on deaf ears. I don't think my pockets are as deep as the NWTF, who's policy agenda, coincidentally or not, aligns with the PGC decision on single projectiles.
That is why this decision wasn't science based.
So if the PGC is wholly susceptible to 3rd party lobbying influence...what other decisions are they making which are policy driven rather than science driven....policy over science is a slippery slope, and not just in wildlife management.
I know they're useless. Right now, it's all about the opening Monday of buck season.
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This happens all around the country. Sadly the NWTF's money has a lot of influence and it's not all good for us hunters. They are driven by southern management philosophies that aren't as applicable in the north.
Quote from: Tree sleeper on February 10, 2025, 05:17:14 PM...I said I do not want rifles shooting 3000 fps that's not what flinters do.
Regarding rifles and fall hunter safety. PGC cites, in their own 2018-2027 turkey management plan, more shooting accidents happen in the spring than the fall season.
According to data collected by the PGC, shotguns provide no additional safety factor in the field. During spring seasons, there were <2 hunting shooting related incidents per 100,000 hunters, while fall season with rifles in the mix, there were <0.5 shooting related incidents per 100,000 hunters (p. ix, 19).
So safety could not have been the driver behind PGC banning single projectile firearms, either. Again, when policy drives decision making, instead of science, down the steep and slippery slope we all go.
Like I said before, with three highly favorable weather patterns during the past three hatches in the northern tier, the PGC will claim the single projectile ban a total success. In fact, scientifically speaking, their point will be nothing more than a spurious correlation between flocks and prohibition of a particular type of firearm, when in fact its a third variable problem. That third variable, weather, the PGC commissioners will conveniently ignore in order to further and permanently advance a policy objective.
Link to the 2018-2027 wild turkey management plan:
PGC Wild Turkey Management 2018-2027 (https://www.pa.gov/content/dam/copapwp-pagov/en/pgc/documents/wildlife/wildlifespecies/turkey/documents/pennsylvania%20wild%20turkey%20management%20plan%202018-2027%20(2).pdf)