This is strictly an observation/conclusion taken from my last 5 years in the turkey woods. As we all have witnessed and experienced over the past several years, most areas have declining turkey populations. Fewer birds for us, fewer for the predator population. This is my thoughts on how this has affected the behavior/wariness of the Gobblers, even the hens for that matter. I find in my areas that the birds are extremely "cagey"compared to years ago when the population was higher. The birds seem to be overly cautious if they come further distances without seeing their hen. I look back at my recent harvests, a lot of them have been tricky head shots in tougher shooting situations. Are these birds getting smarter, more exposure to predators who are also experiencing the shortage? I know I have noticed now more than ever that set-up and movement is super-critical. I used to get away with more in the turkey woods regarding this years ago. This is just my observation/opinion, I want to see if you all think there might be something to this? Has this made our birds inherently smarter? Be well, enjoy your summer...
I must agree and some of that could be an increase in predators. Looking back over the past 5 or 6 years there are a lot more new turkey hunters in the woods. Maybe the birds now are overly cautious and a little more "cagey" due to this new increase of new turkey hunters and their habits while hunting. Just my two cents on how this has affected the behavior/wariness of the birds.
Quote from: Turkeybutt on June 23, 2024, 06:41:53 AMLooking back over the past 5 or 6 years there are a lot more new turkey hunters in the woods. Maybe the birds now are overly cautious and a little more "cagey" due to this new increase of new turkey hunters and their habits while hunting. Just my two cents on how this has affected the behavior/wariness of the birds.
I'd lean more this way
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Quote from: NYturkey on June 23, 2024, 10:43:10 AMQuote from: Turkeybutt on June 23, 2024, 06:41:53 AMLooking back over the past 5 or 6 years there are a lot more new turkey hunters in the woods. Maybe the birds now are overly cautious and a little more "cagey" due to this new increase of new turkey hunters and their habits while hunting. Just my two cents on how this has affected the behavior/wariness of the birds.
I'd lean more this way
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I would agree 100% here, except I don't get much hunter interference on the private land I hunt......but I see the point on hunter pressure for sure...
Is it possible they're getting pressure on other properties? I know predator populations shrink and grow with prey populations and I also don't know of a predator that specializes or keys in on turkey specifically. Most predators are more opportunistic. So, with shrinking turkey populations I'd be more inclined to believe that predators start focusing more on other prey species and therefore not adding any more pressure to turkey.
But I've been wrong before...
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Quote from: NYturkey on June 23, 2024, 10:59:01 AMIs it possible they're getting pressure on other properties? I know predator populations shrink and grow with prey populations and I also don't know of a predator that specializes or keys in on turkey specifically. Most predators are more opportunistic. So, with shrinking turkey populations I'd be more inclined to believe that predators start focusing more on other prey species and therefore not adding any more pressure to turkey.
But I've been wrong before...
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Good thought....
Just turkeys being turkeys. Nothing earth shattering or any significant change in behavior over past 5 years.
Cautious, cagey, wary that's the nature of the bird. Hasn't changed in past 5 years or 55 for that matter.
Can't recall wild turkeys I hunted tolerating movement last 5 years or last 25 .
Can't recall a season where set up wasn't important either.
With Merriam's turkeys hunting pressure absolutely affects their behavior. Birds on private land with little or no hunting pressure can become as dumb as domestic birds - we call them barnyard turkeys. Killing one of those is like shooting fish in a barrel. But birds on pressured public land are super wary and difficult to kill.
I believe turkeys will adapt to the environment they are in fairly quickly, pressure from hunters and predators will keep them "on guard " much more if necessary. The particular area you are hunting in will determine how wary the birds are.
As you know that gobbler knows exactly where he should be seeing that hen and when he does not see it alarm bells start going off in his head.
On another note, over time, I believe evolution could come into play with the smarter keener birds surviving.
It's quite possible if your seeing a down turn in populations in your area the wariness of the gobblers could most likely be as a result of less inexperienced 2 year olds and more adult gobblers with a few seasons under their belt across the landscape.
Quote from: King Cobra on June 23, 2024, 12:25:04 PMI believe turkeys will adapt to the environment they are in fairly quickly, pressure from hunters and predators will keep them "on guard " much more if necessary. The particular area you are hunting in will determine how wary the birds are.
As you know that gobbler knows exactly where he should be seeing that hen and when he does not see it alarm bells start going off in his head.
On another note, over time, I believe evolution could come into play with the smarter keener birds surviving.
Agree here Ken, I just see that the birds I'm hunting now seem to be tougher for whatever reason.
Quote from: Paulmyr on June 23, 2024, 01:24:14 PMIt's quite possible if your seeing a down turn in populations in your area the wariness of the gobblers could most likely be as a result of of less inexperienced 2 year olds and more adult gobblers with a few seasons under their belt across the landscape.
Amen brother. Makes a lot of sense....
Quote from: Tom007 on June 23, 2024, 02:54:44 PMQuote from: Paulmyr on June 23, 2024, 01:24:14 PMIt's quite possible if your seeing a down turn in populations in your area the wariness of the gobblers could most likely be as a result of of less inexperienced 2 year olds and more adult gobblers with a few seasons under their belt across the landscape.
Amen brother. Makes a lot of sense....
I guess more adult gobblers would be a poor choice of wording, the remaining gobblers available would be more experienced overall might be a better choice.
Hunting pressure has a lot to do with how turkeys act in my opinion.. Calling pressure doesn't have near the effect like hunting pressure... IMO
Predators do play a part, but I think hunting pressure plays a bigger part.
In the last 5 years I have seen significantly less turkeys and significantly more predators and egg eaters, that is just a fact. The reasons are a matter of opinions though. Is it this or that, I think it is a little of all the negatives. Predators, including us, more new hunters, less habitat. I think there has to be more turkeys than I am seeing, so where are they. The cagey nature of these birds has been heightened by all the reasons listed above. It is up to us to adapt, as they are adapting every day. More patience, better tactics etc. If it were easy, would you still get the rush you get now. Give them all masters degrees and move on, lol. Summed up, turkeys are getting harder to kill so we need to adapt. Good luck fishing and golfing my friends. Z
Quote from: zelmo1 on June 24, 2024, 05:37:22 AMIn the last 5 years I have seen significantly less turkeys and significantly more predators and egg eaters, that is just a fact. The reasons are a matter of opinions though. Is it this or that, I think it is a little of all the negatives. Predators, including us, more new hunters, less habitat. I think there has to be more turkeys than I am seeing, so where are they. The cagey nature of these birds has been heightened by all the reasons listed above. It is up to us to adapt, as they are adapting every day. More patience, better tactics etc. If it were easy, would you still get the rush you get now. Give them all masters degrees and move on, lol. Summed up, turkeys are getting harder to kill so we need to adapt. Good luck fishing and golfing my friends. Z
You're dead on here Z, harvesting a gobbler now gives us all an unmatched feeling of accomplishment for sure!
After a year of not seeing Mature Toms in the areas I was hunting, spent last year finding new areas, found some at end of last season. Hunted them this year, they had lot of pressure from youth day on. Heard very little gobbling after fly down. Finaly mid-season when pressure started to drop, Toms started responding and got lucky to take 2 well educated Toms. First Tom even had fresh shot in breast. While hunting this area, public, I got to listen to all the trucks running in every morning, Toms gobbled on roost, quiet after fly down. Mid season, less trucks, Toms were more and more talkative. Never once heard a Tom gobble when I could hear a vehicle. Most of these birds were on private but would sneak into public when they thought it was safe.
"Smartness" in turkeys is generally a function of their experience in life in avoiding predation...both in the form of those natural predators AND the human kind. Personally, I have seen very little evidence over the years that non-human predators are much of a concern for ADULT turkeys. I would be willing to bet certain appendages that human-caused mortality of adult male turkeys far exceeds any other cause.
Now, to the question of "are gobblers getting smarter?" Personally, I don't think so. There are just a lot fewer of the "less smart" ones in the woods due to the fact that there are just a lot more people hunting them...and using tactics developed over the last few decades that gobblers are much more susceptible to. The less-smart turkeys in any significantly-hunted population are just getting killed faster than they used to be...and the ones that don't end up being killed are reaching that "smartened-up" phase of life a lot quicker, as well.
Combine that fact with the lack of survival of young-of-the-year turkeys in seemingly increasing numbers of places and we have a sure-fire recipe for the only gobblers left in the woods being those "smart" ones that have learned those predator-avoidance behaviors we are seeing more and more of...especially the human kind of predators.
A few years ago, I was finding adult turkey feather piles all over my hunt area. I started seeing mt. lion tracks and the fish and game came out to the property and euthanized a female cougar and her two nearly one year old cubs. The fish and game signed them over to the land owners and I mounted cougar skin rugs out of them for the property owner. I suspect bobcats, dogs and coyotes could prey on adult turkeys also.