Ok guys, you know where I'm going with this. I thought I'd put it to people who know more than me on it. My son and I are considering changing goulds or oscelated next. A well know hunting consultant said he sends hunters into mexico every year and has for 30 years without a single incident. But...the travel advisory council lists, as least Sonora, under reconsider. Campeche seems to be the least. I'm all for an adventure as much as the next guy but no animal on the planet is worth risking lives or kidnapping ect. Just thought I'd see what the general consensus is.
It would be my guess as a hunter you are not a very good target of opportunity because you have the ability to shoot back as do your outfitters.
Like everywhere else on the planet, we only hear the horror stories...no matter how low the odds are of something happening. Such is the case with venturing into Mexico to turkey hunt. The likelihood of anything happening in doing so is almost zero, but in the back of our minds, each of us is thinking,.."what if I am the one?".
I have gone down there several times, although not recently, and the only issues I/we had were not being able to speak the language and the inherent problems associated with that. Most of those trips were DIY where we did not go through an outfitter...just knew some people such that we were able to arrange the trips/hunts ourselves. We never had a single problem...other than that nervousness associated with going somewhere totally unfamiliar to any of us.
In your case, going through a reliable outfitter should alleviate any concerns you might have. If you really want to go hunt Goulds or Ocellated turkeys...and are willing to pay the price for it...you should do it without a second thought. :icon_thumright:
I appreciate the advice. You were spot on about New Mexico.
Went down there last spring with absolutely no issues. Hunted chihuahua and it was listed under reconsider as well. Met some of the friendliest people and had a blast. The only people who find trouble down there are those looking for it. Feel free to PM me if you want any information on outfitter.
I would have no concerns. When it's time, it's time. Chase the fun.
I would say that I've lived in some serious shitholes over the years. But that's my opinion and it's rather worthless. ;D
I went down there 5 years ago with a very reputable guide. Long story short the bad guys did not get notified that 4 suburbans were headed out that morning. They thought 3 was the number.
I was not in the 4th truck but I personally talked with them in detail about the incident. When we all got back to camp.
The police pulled them over at 3:45 in the morning and then let them go. The police then followed them and pulled them over again once they got a mile or so down a dirt road. The cop never got out of the car and stayed there until a pickup with 3 guys with Ak's showed up.
They guys with guns went through the truck with a fine tooth comb. Guide and 2 clients had their hands on the front of the car. They went through their turkey vests gun cases etc.
After they did not find anything they left.
Me and my brother were hunting with the other guide. We started getting word something was not right around 10 am.
When we were riding back to the camp at about 12:00 or so our guide got a call from the bad guys apologizing for the mistake. I asked him what they said and he looked me in the eyes and said they are about to go kick the cops that started all of this.
My group left the next day. Luckily nobody got hurt but damn those bits were scared being pulled over in the dark on a dirt road in the middle of nowhere.
Bottom line is everybody in Mexico has to deal with the bad guys. It's a way of life. If they tell you to not to hunt a certain piece of ground you don't.
I am not going to mention who the guide was. He told me it was the 1st time anything like that had ever happened and I believed him.
I hunted Chihuahua in 2007. That was just before all the cartel mayhem started. There was a period in there where my outfitter (THE preeminate outfitter for Mexican turkeys AND personal friend of over 20 years) was not recommending folks come there.
I hunted Campeche with the same outfitter about 8 weeks ago. We talked about the cartel a bit. I also talked to a couple of the guides. It IS a thing. But there are those they (the cartel) harass and there are those....for various reasons....they do not.
Neither time did I ever feel unsafe. You WILL go through military checkpoints on the highway. Never saw that become a problem.
Any REPUTABLE outfitter will let you know if they feel your safety would be in question.
If you have any questions....... shoot me a PM.
Hunted with CG International Outdoors in Durango, Mx in 2022. Great experience, top notch accommodations and food, and plenty of birds. Hunting birds 9k in the Sierr@ Madres is an incredible experience
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The odds are strong that everything would be fine, but it's a very different world down there. I've been many times starting in 1997, had a long break and went back last year for one final time.
The hunting has always been great as well as the setting in really remote mountainous country.
Do NOT bring even one shell into Mexico if you aren't bringing your own gun. That could well get you jail time.
Ask the outfitter lots of questions about the hunt, some you may have thought went without saying.
Feel free to PM me.
Quote from: Alabama556 on May 05, 2024, 08:24:02 PMThe police pulled them over at 3:45 in the morning and then let them go. The police then followed them and pulled them over again once they got a mile or so down a dirt road. The cop never got out of the car and stayed there until a pickup with 3 guys with Ak's showed up.
The police comment reminded me of the first time I/we went down there on our initial DIY hunt back in 2006. We had heard the stories about the police pulling people over...especially "foreigners"...and basically extorting money out of them before letting them go.
We had hunted several days without issue, were driving back, and were almost to the U.S. Port of Entry when I noticed a police car coming up behind us on the rural highway we were on. I nervously watched in my rear view mirror as the car followed along behind us for a while, and as expected, the lights came on and we were pulled over. I said to my buddy,..."Oh no, here we go", fully expecting to be harassed for a while and then having to pay some sort of "ransom" to get out of it.
We got out of my truck as two policemen got out of their patrol car and walked up to us. We knew almost zero Spanish, but they knew just enough English to ask us what we were up to. With enough gesturing, pointing, and "pigeon-English" thrown in, we finally made them understand we had been "guajolote" hunting.
Their initial stern attitude gradually changed and, before long, they seemed genuinely interested and curious about our hunt. We showed them the gobblers we had harvested, how we had used turkey calls to call them to us, and even pulled out our calls and demonstrated some turkey calling for them. All the while, I was still expecting them to demand some sort of bribe to let us go on.
However, after a few minutes, they just smiled and told us to go ahead, never demanding a thing from us. We jumped in the truck and headed on up the road towards the Port as quickly as we could...making sure to obey all speed limits and traffic rules...of course. :D ;D
As much as I would like to do a Mexico hunt under the current world situation I would pass. Just not worth the risk IMO. To those that go good luck and post some pictures.
Quote from: joey46 on May 08, 2024, 10:14:11 AMAs much as I would like to do a Mexico hunt under the current world situation I would pass. Just not worth the risk IMO. To those that go good luck and post some pictures.
It's a shame that it has gotten so bad down there. It's it an amazing hunt in the Sierr@ Madres. Our guide was awesome and his people were 1st class.
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I'm thinking about holding off on mexico now. At least for a few years. Maybe things will get better down there. It's not just me but my 23 year old son would be with me. He'd go anywhere with me and no way I'd put him into anything questionable.
Campeche is safe according to guys I've spoken to. I did the Ocellated deal a few times with Lovett Williams in Guatemala long ago, which definitely had some risks, but I wouldn't think twice about going to Campeche for the Ocellated, if that's on your bucket list.
To each his own, but I would not personally take that chance.
I'm sure those 2 Aussies and the American surfer heard it would be fine to go camping and surfing.
I have spent a few nights in Chihuahua, and hunted in the Sonora Mountains as well as the Yucatan. When hunting the Ocellated we stayed in Merida for two extra days before we headed to the jungle. In both places we walked to dinner at night. My wife and I walked to Walmart in Merida after 10pm one night. Never a moments worry. We took an extensive tour of some Mayan ruins by hiring a local to drive us around for the day. All in all each trip was outstanding.
You can find trouble where you look for it, no matter where you are.
Quote from: OJR on May 09, 2024, 12:25:43 PMI have spent a few nights in Chihuahua, and hunted in the Sonora Mountains as well as the Yucatan. When hunting the Ocellated we stayed in Merida for two extra days before we headed to the jungle. In both places we walked to dinner at night. My wife and I walked to Walmart in Merida after 10pm one night. Never a moments worry. We took an extensive tour of some Mayan ruins by hiring a local to drive us around for the day. All in all each trip was outstanding.
You can find trouble where you look for it, no matter where you are.
According to my buddy (who is a Mexican citizen), Merida is the safest city in Mexico. He said, "You could walk the streets at midnight and be safe".
Chihuahua City.....not so much.
Quote from: Sixes on May 09, 2024, 11:42:39 AMTo each his own, but I would not personally take that chance.
I'm sure those 2 Aussies and the American surfer heard it would be fine to go camping and surfing.
That story has made my wife even more thrilled about my planned trip for next Spring.
I drove down in 2019 and never made it to my destination because while i was paying for gas in saltillo, some guys tampered with my vehicle and I broke down on the highway not long after in the middle of nowhere, with no cell service, 1 bottler of water, a bag of jerky and my turkey calls. Now... I traveled there myself, because the outfit i used who by the way has sent many others there without issue failed to let me know, that i wasnt meeting someone who would transport me from one place to the next. I had asked him many times, and he was like well i was hoping you would just fly. most do...obviously you cant buy that ticket the week of...so i opted to drive it after speaking with the mexican guide over the phone later who the american outfit went through. long story short.....some random folks stopped and said we can fix your vehicle...obviously the same individuals from the station who had tampered with it...as this was a trap from the get go. I had to pay them of course...what choice do you have. When my vehicle was back on , i never turned it off until i was back at my house the next night....i drove non stop from dark until the next evening when i got home. Obviously i thought the same thing....chances are nothing will happen. I didnt die or get kidnapped by the cartel...but mexico isnt the U.S., outside of a resort that place is a disease, and life has no value down there.....Id rather be in afghanistan. If you do go there...id go with an outfit that transported me at least. And as seen in another comment above even that can go south. Life has no value there....For those saying they never felt unsafe. i dont know if they drove themself or were transported. Im a fairly well traveled individual at least compared to average person id say...and i felt unsafe the moment i got to laredo/nueva. Choose wisely.
No way on God's green earth would I or will I EVER go Mexico.....not this day and age.....
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Quote from: PharmHunter on May 09, 2024, 05:26:25 PMQuote from: Sixes on May 09, 2024, 11:42:39 AMTo each his own, but I would not personally take that chance.
I'm sure those 2 Aussies and the American surfer heard it would be fine to go camping and surfing.
That story has made my wife even more thrilled about my planned trip for next Spring.
:D This is exactly the reason that we (a group of about ten of us) stopped going down there. It wasn't so much that any of us were worried about it...it was that our wives were not happy about the prospects of what might happen, even though what MIGHT happen was an extremely remote possibility. We had gone down there DIY three years in a row and had an absolute blast...and without a single issue.
We would probably have continued to do so, but that was right about the time the cartels started the drug wars in the Juarez/Chihuahua City region...which was the route we had traveled on our hunts. We all hated not being able to go back again, but the concerns of our spouses were enough for us to give up going down there.
Now, I also think that going through a reputable outfitter would eliminate most all fears anybody might have. However, each of us has to weigh not only our concerns about going, but also those of our loved ones...and evaluate whether or not it is really worth it.
For me personally, if I was really concerned about killing another Gould's gobbler and was willing to pay the price (which has gone up considerably over the years), I wouldn't think twice about booking with a (reputable) outfitter. As a "small city" boy from southern New Mexico, my fears of going to Mexico are less than those I would have about walking down an inner-city street of any major metropolitan area (and lots of other places) in the U.S. after dark...if you get my "drift". ;D
Well...I guess that makes it a no bueno for me too then. Turkey hunting has always been my 23 year old son and I. No way my wife is gonna let me take him to mexico. Anybody know a good rio or osceola outfitter? Lol
Just got this Outdoor Life Newsletter with an article about a Mexico Gould's hunt gone wrong. ...Makes one wonder about risking going down there, for sure!
https://www.outdoorlife.com/
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 07, 2024, 06:21:53 PMJust got this Outdoor Life Newsletter with an article about a Mexico Gould's hunt gone wrong. ...Makes one wonder about risking going down there, for sure!
https://www.outdoorlife.com/
It doesn't make me wonder about it, I am NOT going. No adventure is worth dying over
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 07, 2024, 06:21:53 PMJust got this Outdoor Life Newsletter with an article about a Mexico Gould's hunt gone wrong. ...Makes one wonder about risking going down there, for sure!
https://www.outdoorlife.com/
Just read the story. And I've always wanted to go to Mexico, but NOPE! Not after reading that. Here is the link for others who want to read it.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival/ambushed-by-cartel-while-hunting-mexico/
I was potentially going down there to guide some mule deer hunts, the owner of the outfitting company was down there and had his Ford Raptor stolen at gun point.
He potentially owed some folks money but I have no idea what happened so I opted out of that guide trip!
I have a good friend who is Mexican and his parents retired down there, if I go I will roll with him!
Also 34 presidential candidates have been murdered since Sept. of 2023, WOW!
Just read the ODL story. Well worth a quick look. If anyone goes :anim_25:
Quote from: Cowboy on May 10, 2024, 06:01:25 AMNo way on God's green earth would I or will I EVER go Mexico.....not this day and age.....
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This is where I'm at with this. Life's too short......
Add - Jim Shockey's BookYourHunt.com is listing two 2025 Mexico hunts on his web site. He claims to give some type of guarantee but kidnapping may be excluded. I'm remembering Meateater did a Mexican hunt but it was a while ago. I'm still going to pass.
I looked over Jim Shockey's site. I'm really interested in the hunts he offers in Iran.
I mean nothing could go wrong there. ;)
Quote from: PalmettoRon on June 09, 2024, 08:30:26 AMI looked over Jim Shockey's site. I'm really interested in the hunts he offers in Iran.
I mean nothing could go wrong there. ;)
:TooFunny: :TooFunny:
I suppose the "silver lining" to the whole "Mexico Goulds hunting" thing might be that, if enough of stories like the Outdoor Life one show up, the price of those hunts will probably go down quite a bit! ;D :angel9:
Shockey himself got into a rough situation down there not too long ago, it is on one of his shows.
Scary schtuff right there in that story! :0
Tough enough to win the home games.
Can't find the Shockey episode mentioned. He's been to several places I would avoid over the years.
It was on his uncharted show a while ago.
Quote from: Dtrkyman on June 14, 2024, 11:29:25 AMIt was on his uncharted show a while ago.
I want to say this episode was on tv a couple years ago I watched and he was telling the story and had a little footage to go along with it.
Lots of places in this world that are MUCH safer that I would rather visit/hunt.
Found a preview of that Shockey episode. I had seen it at some point. Mexico off my bucket list. Too bad. It looked like fun but standing on the side of the road with my hands up isn't my idea of a good time.
Seems this topic is mostly about goulds in northern mexico.
What about ocellated in the Yucatan? Still not a good place?
I've not hunted in Campeche state in Mexico which is where almost all of the Mexican Ocellated trips are.
I do have friends who have been and said it was fine.
If you google Campeche and the city of Merida which is where most fly into, it is considered safe.
Lots of Americans go to Merida and the crime rate is low. I suspect that is even more true out in the country side.
I hunted in Guatemala with Lovett Williams for Ocellated, years ago and had a good time and no issues although there were more risks in that area. Actually called the birds up using a Doug Camp owl hooter and an electronic caller to mimic the sound of the male bird.
Quote from: GobbleNut on May 08, 2024, 09:32:07 AMQuote from: Alabama556 on May 05, 2024, 08:24:02 PMThe police pulled them over at 3:45 in the morning and then let them go. The police then followed them and pulled them over again once they got a mile or so down a dirt road. The cop never got out of the car and stayed there until a pickup with 3 guys with Ak's showed up.
The police comment reminded me of the first time I/we went down there on our initial DIY hunt back in 2006. We had heard the stories about the police pulling people over...especially "foreigners"...and basically extorting money out of them before letting them go.
We had hunted several days without issue, were driving back, and were almost to the U.S. Port of Entry when I noticed a police car coming up behind us on the rural highway we were on. I nervously watched in my rear view mirror as the car followed along behind us for a while, and as expected, the lights came on and we were pulled over. I said to my buddy,..."Oh no, here we go", fully expecting to be harassed for a while and then having to pay some sort of "ransom" to get out of it.
We got out of my truck as two policemen got out of their patrol car and walked up to us. We knew almost zero Spanish, but they knew just enough English to ask us what we were up to. With enough gesturing, pointing, and "pigeon-English" thrown in, we finally made them understand we had been "guajolote" hunting.
Their initial stern attitude gradually changed and, before long, they seemed genuinely interested and curious about our hunt. We showed them the gobblers we had harvested, how we had used turkey calls to call them to us, and even pulled out our calls and demonstrated some turkey calling for them. All the while, I was still expecting them to demand some sort of bribe to let us go on.
However, after a few minutes, they just smiled and told us to go ahead, never demanding a thing from us. We jumped in the truck and headed on up the road towards the Port as quickly as we could...making sure to obey all speed limits and traffic rules...of course. :D ;D
I know a lot of Mexicans who live 'up here' and they are all very impressed and interested when I tell them I hunt 'Pavos y venados'... They would all want to come with me!
42 posts and the bad far out weighs the good. No way I'm going do there. I don't need one of them ugly sobs. Goulds well hopefully by the time I can't hunt anymore they'll be enough in the SW USA to hunt. Bubba
Quote from: 2flyfish4 on June 16, 2024, 11:08:05 PMSeems this topic is mostly about goulds in northern mexico.
What about ocellated in the Yucatan? Still not a good place?
I had a friend (that went with a very reputable outfitter) that their camp in the jungle was taken hostage and held all day while the rest of the bad dudes went further into the jungle to rob another camp. The bad guys took everything they could load up. Left two vehicles but disabled them and told them if they left camp before the next day they would be killed. They got one vehicle running and waited till the next day to go into town. Cops would only take the report of "lost" passports. They didn't want to hear about them being robbed.
The outfitter said it was probably Guatemalan's that were running security for the cartels. They had never had an issue before that day.
Guess I'm glad I went twice and survived both times.
Luckily I got a pair of Gould's, a pair of Ocellateds, and I'm too poor to go do either hunt again. :TooFunny:
Just looked at the Jim Shockey site again. Two Mexico hunts still listed. Neither cheap.
Quote from: Yoder409 on July 21, 2024, 08:09:59 PMGuess I'm glad I went twice and survived both times.
Luckily I got a pair of Gould's, a pair of Ocellateds, and I'm too poor to go do either hunt again. :TooFunny:
:TooFunny:
I hear ya' buddy! A couple of decades ago, I was fortunate enough to be able to go down there several times when it was relatively cheap. Back then, we could kill two gobblers for half the price of killing a single bird now. Times have changed, for sure. Even if I was willing to risk it, I am just not willing to pay the current price to kill another one.
As for the safety issue, I'm not sure we were any safer back then than it seems to be now, but we never had a problem. Looking back, I cringe a little bit thinking about what could have happened based on the stories we hear about recently. Perhaps things were safer back then...but perhaps we were just lucky...
Having said that, for those considering going down there through a reputable outfitter, I think the odds of having a good, safe hunt are pretty high. We don't hear about all the hunts that take place without incident...just the few that do which admittedly are pretty scary...and make a guy think twice about going.