Years ago I put out two Hen Decoys and had no luck till I stopped using them. Since then I get Tom's coming into range still looking for the hen. Guess I watched too many shows this off season and picked up an Avian-X Lay down Hen. Now I am in the market for a strutting Tom to put along side of her. My question prior to shelling out for the Tom is , am I moving in the right direction or do you think I am going down a rabbit hole again. I hunt mostly woods from a blind. Thanks in advance. PS, I hunt Wisconsin Birds.
Ches.
I quit using decoys in the woods. Birds seem to either hang up when they saw them or spook. I did however have good luck with the lay down hen and a quarter or half strut Jake when hunting field edges.
Hit or miss for me. last yr had a Gobbler pitch down from tree look at the 2 hens I put out there and walked the opposite way. This was in the first week of the Pa.season.
Forget the Strutter. Play the Jealousy card with the laydown hen and get a 1/4 or 1/2 strut jake. Put the laydown hen 2 to 3 feet in front of the jake. You'll see why!
Thanks for your responses. I am really torn between using a Tom or Jake Decoy or just the laydown hen. My past experience with Decoys has been less than stellar. I feel a laydown hen would be neutral. I like to go with bbcoach and get a jake, but have heard too many bad things about them. My current feelings are to get a Jake, use it first morning, then can it if it spooks anything.
IMHO when hunting the woods use the landscape to your advantage. Make him poke his head around to where you are. I like to setup about 15 yards from a corner or other obstacle. I use decoys on logging roads, don't really hunt fields here.
Quote from: bbcoach on April 08, 2024, 09:29:56 AM
Forget the Strutter. Play the Jealousy card with the laydown hen and get a 1/4 or 1/2 strut jake. Put the laydown hen 2 to 3 feet in front of the jake. You'll see why!
^^^
This works best for me.
If you're in the woods get out of the blind and forget the decoys.
Strutting Tom decoys are both dangerous to hunters and effective beyond what I'd consider ethical at times. I gave up decoys 4 years ago and never looked back. Use terrain. Get where a bird has to periscope the hilltop to see and be in gun range of that. I've killed so many birds this way.
I had given up on decoys also mdmitchell, that's why I say rabbit hole. I think I will give them a try on the land behind the cabin or on public, but will get out of the blind and walk as normal during the day.
Quote from: mdmitchell on April 09, 2024, 08:02:39 PM
If you're in the woods get out of the blind and forget the decoys.
Use terrain. Get where a bird has to periscope the hilltop to see and be in gun range of that. I've killed so many birds this way.
When you live in flat land and pine plantations, as I do, decoys can and will pay off. In our smallish food plots and on roads in the woods, decoys will bring those stubborn gobblers into gun range. With the hearing and eyes these birds have, you AREN"T going to sneak up on them here. And we don't have any terrain to conceal our movement or setup behind. Rolling hills and mountains, forget the dekes and run and gun! Patience, Scouting and Woodsmanship are key here.
Setting up with or without decoys takes some consideration.
Hunting the hills without a decoy, I like to hunt areas where birds have to look for that hen... And with decoys, I am hunting more open meadows or slopes.
I have had a few birds "putt off" due to not seeing a hen when they should... But honestly, I have had far more birds turn away from a jake decoy or hang up on a hen decoy (and strutt 80 yards away).
Strutter decoy will certainly pull in that dominant bird... Early season before dominance has been established, you might also benefit from a strutter, but a jake decoy is more versatile in my opinion...
I have played with a Funky Chicken a bit, and honestly had fewer birds turn away from it than my Avian X 3/4 strut.
And... I am mobile, and do not want to carry a heavy jake decoy... I would probably lean towards a Funky chicken for hunting the woods and covering ground.
I grew up hunting ducks, and hunting turkeys with decoys seemed natural... Any more I use one with kids, or I put out a hen to cover me if there is an open area they might come from... Most of the time, I do not use one.
And... I probably feel a bigger sense of satisfaction without the decoy... But it is fun to watch birds charge in to beat on that jake decoy as well...
Quote from: bbcoach on April 10, 2024, 02:49:35 PM
Quote from: mdmitchell on April 09, 2024, 08:02:39 PM
If you're in the woods get out of the blind and forget the decoys.
Use terrain. Get where a bird has to periscope the hilltop to see and be in gun range of that. I've killed so many birds this way.
When you live in flat land and pine plantations, as I do, decoys can and will pay off. In our smallish food plots and on roads in the woods, decoys will bring those stubborn gobblers into gun range. With the hearing and eyes these birds have, you AREN"T going to sneak up on them here. And we don't have any terrain to conceal our movement or setup behind. Rolling hills and mountains, forget the dekes and run and gun! Patience, Scouting and Woodsmanship are key here.
Sounds like where I hunt. North Florida / South Georgia. I've had success with them on logging roads but also had one the other day hang up 100 yards out and not come any closer. I think it depends on the bird and on the day.
Quote from: mdmitchell on April 09, 2024, 08:02:39 PM
If you're in the woods get out of the blind and forget the decoys.
Strutting Tom decoys are both dangerous to hunters and effective beyond what I'd consider ethical at times. I gave up decoys 4 years ago and never looked back. Use terrain. Get where a bird has to periscope the hilltop to see and be in gun range of that. I've killed so many birds this way.
I "mostly" agree with you...
Me... I do not like a blind, unless I am hunting with a child... Feels like I am in prison, and no way to make a short strategic move...
But... Even in the mountains, you can hunt a small property in which moving around much is detrimental. Sitting in a comfortable blind, and not disturbing the area can be beneficial (to some)... Can be tougher to set up that blind in optimal terrain for killing birds with a blind though.
Well, I guess the best bet is to be lucky. I set my blind the day prior to season where I thought they would roost. Walked in without a flash light and 15 min. prior to opener I heard a gobble, then another, both within 80-100 Yds. Saw the closer one up the tree. After 30-45 min two hens pitched down and came to me. Then closer Tom pitched and came over hill at 50 yards strutting. Lights out for him. Not sure I needed decoys, but had laydown and Jake out.
Thanks for the guidance guys.
Agree with a lot of the guys above. You have to read every situation but generally -
Woods - no decoys
Fields - Jake, laydown hen, and upright hen
I don't think the lay down hen is really needed with a full strut decoy, because it's the big fella that has the drawing power. But you already have the lay down hen, and she will only add to the ruse.
Myself, I've run a Dakota X-treme Jake decoy (passive/aggressive jake pose) for 10+ years as my one and always decoy. I've had excellent success with it, to draw in both unwanted gangs of jakes and toms. I also have a full strut decoy that gets deployed in specific situations, and have had some epic results from it at both ends of the spectrum. On a field edge, I will always use a decoy, in the woods I may or may not.
I used to have a hen decoy, and rarely used it so it got sold. In my mind, hen calling is the draw and a hen decoy can hurt more than it helps as I've had toms hang up and try to draw my decoy to them. With no decoy, they will have to come searching but they'll know what tree you're at and a smart tom won't stick around long when he doesn't see a hen there, and even less time if he knows there was no lump at that tree last time he saw it. But, when a tom comes to hen calling and sees a jake is trying to cut in, it seems to trigger them fairly reliably.
There's lots of room in turkey hunting to decide how you want to do it. IMHO, calling one up in the woods with no decoy is the pinnacle of the chess game, whereas reaping a field turkey takes zero skill or knowledge of the bird. Both are legal (where I live, anyway). There are several layers in between, including the full strut decoy which I can understand a purist might not agree with.
Quote from: The Baron on May 04, 2024, 06:29:33 AMThere's lots of room in turkey hunting to decide how you want to do it. IMHO, calling one up in the woods with no decoy is the pinnacle of the chess game, whereas reaping a field turkey takes zero skill or knowledge of the bird. Both are legal (where I live, anyway). There are several layers in between, including the full strut decoy which I can understand a purist might not agree with.
Great post and comment Baron. I will add this additional comment (again). Regardless of how each of us decides to hunt, it is important to understand that the resource can only stand so many "hits" to its gobbler segment before it has a "real" negative impact on the overall turkey population over time.
As an educated wildlife biologist who was involved in the development of spring gobbler regulations decades ago, I can assure everybody that the impact on the gobbler population through the use of visual male turkey decoys/aids in spring gobbler hunting was never contemplated (or realized) until relatively recently.
Personally, I take no stand against folks hunting the way they want to (within some reasonable limits), but what I do take a stand against is folks not having the wisdom to know when it is time to quit killing as many gobblers as they possibly can...by using any method they possible can.
Succinctly, we have become too good at killing gobblers with the equipment and methodologies that have been developed over time. It is high time we collectively realize that fact and adjust our outlook and expectations accordingly.
With that said, here's a good video on the need for balance. Easier said for private land but can be a can of worms when trying to implement on public lands.
Riverbuck, Thanks that was long but informative. Didn't have anything pertaining to my original post, but got me thinking. I realize we need to up production to increase birds. I trap the small 10 acers we have and manage to take 6-8 egg eaters out of the population each year. I have tried to get Yots but with no luck. Bobcats take a special permit and Owls are off limits. I did try Federal 3RD Degree which have 40% tungsten this year with devastating results at 50 yards. I have always been a lead shooter and 40 was my limit. After listening to this podcast, I wonder how Tungsten might be changing the kill ratio in the turkey woods as more hunters start using them. I know taking 6-8 egg eaters out every year is a drop in the bucket, but I figure everything I can do to help the birds helps. I also make and put out wood duck houses where I live for the same reason.
Ches.
Decoys are to turkey hunting as e-bikes are to cycling.
Decoy in the right situation can be deadly. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, so in my opinion pick your battles wisely and you could be successful. I would get a quarter Strut jacket along with a hen decoy.
The only thing I carry in the woods is a tail fan on a stick. Stake it somewhere so that the "body" is hidden and only the fan is visible. Lights out!
I never use male turkey decoys and have taught my kids not to also. They are potentially dangerous and not needed. I occasionally use one upright hen but have found it's usually not needed also. But I'm not against using a decoy like some guys here. I just don't find it necessary and don't like carrying it.
Now that I'm having another back surgery, I'll probably use an upright hen early this season.
Quote from: Ches. on April 08, 2024, 09:23:16 PMThanks for your responses. I am really torn between using a Tom or Jake Decoy or just the laydown hen. My past experience with Decoys has been less than stellar. I feel a laydown hen would be neutral. I like to go with bbcoach and get a jake, but have heard too many bad things about them. My current feelings are to get a Jake, use it first morning, then can it if it spooks anything.
A lay down hen Ive never used solo but if think not nearly as effective as with a jake. Don't let anyone tell you dekes don't work or hurt you. They may sometimes not work but more often help than hurt.
One thing I've noticed, is used cheap dekes (Montana decoys) I did have a bird or so spook. Since I've used DSDs not one and it's been a long time. . My buddy used avian, (they're Chinese and they excludes them for me) but they never spooked em either
This you don't need em in woods stuff is nonsense too. I'm now deaf one ear, can't see to the right. I can't triangulate sound to tell direction with limited view. I need something to focus on and draw the birds to me anymore. I use them all the time in woods. They work just fine I'd say unless it's where you might not see a bird/him see deke until it's in range. Than it's silly if you can hear correctly
Quote from: Bowguy on January 17, 2025, 02:58:26 AMQuote from: Ches. on April 08, 2024, 09:23:16 PMThanks for your responses. I am really torn between using a Tom or Jake Decoy or just the laydown hen. My past experience with Decoys has been less than stellar. I feel a laydown hen would be neutral. I like to go with bbcoach and get a jake, but have heard too many bad things about them. My current feelings are to get a Jake, use it first morning, then can it if it spooks anything.
A lay down hen Ive never used solo but if think not nearly as effective as with a jake. Don't let anyone tell you dekes don't work or hurt you. They may sometimes not work but more often help than hurt.
One thing I've noticed, is used cheap dekes (Montana decoys) I did have a bird or so spook. Since I've used DSDs not one and it's been a long time. . My buddy used avian, (they're Chinese and they excludes them for me) but they never spooked em either
This you don't need em in woods stuff is nonsense too. I'm now deaf one ear, can't see to the right. I can't triangulate sound to tell direction with limited view. I need something to focus on and draw the birds to me anymore. I use them all the time in woods. They work just fine I'd say unless it's where you might not see a bird/him see deke until it's in range. Than it's silly if you can hear correctly
I agree they have worked well for me in open hardwoods where the turks can see 100-200 yards. I would not use them in the thick stuff personally.
Quote from: GobbleNut on May 04, 2024, 09:23:33 AMQuote from: The Baron on May 04, 2024, 06:29:33 AMThere's lots of room in turkey hunting to decide how you want to do it. IMHO, calling one up in the woods with no decoy is the pinnacle of the chess game, whereas reaping a field turkey takes zero skill or knowledge of the bird. Both are legal (where I live, anyway). There are several layers in between, including the full strut decoy which I can understand a purist might not agree with.
Great post and comment Baron. I will add this additional comment (again). Regardless of how each of us decides to hunt, it is important to understand that the resource can only stand so many "hits" to its gobbler segment before it has a "real" negative impact on the overall turkey population over time.
As an educated wildlife biologist who was involved in the development of spring gobbler regulations decades ago, I can assure everybody that the impact on the gobbler population through the use of visual male turkey decoys/aids in spring gobbler hunting was never contemplated (or realized) until relatively recently.
Personally, I take no stand against folks hunting the way they want to (within some reasonable limits), but what I do take a stand against is folks not having the wisdom to know when it is time to quit killing as many gobblers as they possibly can...by using any method they possible can.
Succinctly, we have become too good at killing gobblers with the equipment and methodologies that have been developed over time. It is high time we collectively realize that fact and adjust our outlook and expectations accordingly.
Some interesting things to think about.
I am a waterfowl hunter, and when spinning-wing decoys first came out, they were far too effective. Studies conducted found that they were extremely effective especially on young birds, and higher percentages of birds were being killed... When hunters were polled as to whether they would rather keep the spinners or lose a month of the season (1/3 of the season), the majority voted for less days and to keep the spinners. Being naive as I am, the results of the poll shocked me... Hunters (or shooters) want to kill birds...
I am not opposed to allowing decoys if populations support such use. I am not opposed to regulating decoys, if beneficial to conservation and ultimately turkey numbers... I would guess the majority turkeys in California are taken on private lands, and doubt that decoys, season length, or harvest regulations would much affect turkey populations here though. Especially since most turkeys are on private lands that never get hunted.
Coming from a waterfowl background and getting into turkey hunting late, turkey decoys seemed natural to me initially. I take no issue with decoy use, and frankly, there are some open areas that would be difficult to harvest birds without decoys...
It would be simply lovely, if common sense were put into play... Allow decoy use in (some) agricultural and private areas where bird populations support their use, and regulate use on public lands, or in certain areas... But alas turkeys are considered invasive here, and regulations are probably more political and financial in nature rather than any sort of conservation effort. If every turkey in California died, nothing at all would be done to replenish popoulations.
I suspect that decoy use will continue, even if it becomes evident it should not, primarily due to political and financial pressures, rather than for scientific or conservation reasons.
Quote from: Ches. on April 07, 2024, 09:34:53 PMYears ago I put out two Hen Decoys and had no luck till I stopped using them. Since then I get Tom's coming into range still looking for the hen. Guess I watched too many shows this off season and picked up an Avian-X Lay down Hen. Now I am in the market for a strutting Tom to put along side of her. My question prior to shelling out for the Tom is , am I moving in the right direction or do you think I am going down a rabbit hole again. I hunt mostly woods from a blind. Thanks in advance. PS, I hunt Wisconsin Birds.
Ches.
Wisconsin here too!
So I have extensive knowledge/use of a stutter decoy, and I can give you a good 30 years of that use. Only time I even use decoys in the timber is if it is open enough like an Oak Savanah, Mature Pine Plantings, or Pastured Timber, I want them to see the decoys from a distance like from 80-100 yards.
Then if I am going to use a Strutter I will only ever hunt with my White Headed Strutter Decoy I developed/designed the Tactic around. I made my first in 1999 and been hunting him every year since, now I always say he is not for every hunt, but when I use him he is absolutely DEADLY! The thing here to understand a "Fight Response" Red Head and a "Breeding Response" White Head and they are completely two different things. I have also made my Manual Motion System as we cannot use electronics/remotes in Wisconsin and a number of other states. A big part of this is Controlled Motion, the ability to spin and move him is key to his success as well.
Currently I use a DSD Jake Strutter, might as well have the best, I bought for size/portability and durability. I do modify mine with an improved tail system too and of course my White Headed Design.
If you have question let me hear them, I do a number of my "Turkey University" Seminars on this topic every year, don't know where you are in WI but PM me and I can give you seminar dates and place.
As I always say "He's Dead Using the White Head"
MK M GOBL