Mississippi added a required $100 turkey permit on top of all the other fees. Be a $500 hunt now. Not to mention a non resident draw requirement to hunt all public lands including national forest and fed ground.
This is a disturbing trend that's playing out all across the country including my home state Arkansas. Directly related to the major increase in non resident hunters
Social media is the driver of the trend. I urge everyone to be a responsible consumer / user this season.
Good luck to everyone and remember loose lips sink ships
Mississippi is doing exactly what they have always done, do whatever Arkansas and Louisiana does.
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I understand they have to do something to slow the OOS'ers. But Federal land belongs to all and limiting access to that doesn't sit well. I don't know the answers, but I'm not liking the ones we are getting right now. The costs of some of these licenses is getting out of hand as you stated. I'm told AR is considering backing off some of their recent price increase.
I don't understand how they get away with limiting "Non Residents" on federal land versus "Residents". Total BULL. Last I checked I am an American citizen.
And I don't care about Colorado or what they have done. They have become a different breed.
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The YEAR of Covid, changed everything about turkey hunting... IMO
https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R44267.pdf
From: State Management of Federal Lands: FAQ
Page 5:
"Do States Have Legal Authority to Manage Federal Lands Within Their Borders?
Although Congress has ultimate authority over federal lands under the Property Clause, states have legal authority to manage federal lands within their borders to the extent that Congress has chosen to give them such authority. The existence and extent of any such authority is determined by looking to the statutes applicable to the federal agency and management topic in question.
For example, a number of land-management statutes recognize states' traditional authority to allocate water rights and to manage fish and resident wildlife. The National Wildlife Refuge System Administration Act, for instance, states
(m) State authority. Nothing in this Act shall be construed as affecting the authority, jurisdiction, or responsibility of the several States to manage, control, or regulate fish and resident wildlife under State law or regulations in any area within the System. Regulations permitting hunting or fishing of fish and resident wildlife within the System shall be, to the extent practicable, consistent with State fish and wildlife laws, regulations, and management plans.
States' ability to license and otherwise manage hunting and fishing therefore generally extends to federal lands within their borders, barring specific preemptions. In contrast, states do not have legal authority to regulate certain aspects of grazing, wild horse management, or oil and gas development on federal lands, where federal statutes entrust that management to federal agencies. Even where Congress has left certain aspects of federal land management to the states, unless Congress has enacted an exemption, otherwise-applicable federal laws or regulations override any
contrary state laws under the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
Thus, in the above example, state hunting and fishing laws and regulations do not apply to the extent that they conflict with applicable federal laws, including wildlife-related laws such as ESA or MBTA, as well as federal restrictions on uses of certain areas of public lands."
Quote from: Greg Massey on March 09, 2024, 12:08:58 PM
The YEAR of Covid, changed everything about turkey hunting... IMO
Yup! I personally know several people who started turkey hunting for the first time during covid because they were out of jobs. A couple of them I don't think could even tell you what YouTube is.
And these people started traveling to hunt public land out of state and continue to do so?
I sure would like to see Florida go to something like that!!!!!
Quote from: hunter85 on March 09, 2024, 03:16:44 PM
I sure would like to see Florida go to something like that!!!!!
It's just an arms race then. No more out of state hunting unless you are wealthy. Good job everyone.
$500 for 3 turkeys and a month to hunt if you don't get drawn. Sounds like a bargain to me.
I know people don't like that sort of thing but I certainly understand why a state would do that. I'd personally like to see my state increase fees and go to a draw hunt for non residents to increase revenue and limit out of state pressure. The public land here has suffered from over pressure and the limit has had to be reduced on how many birds can be taken on public land. I hunt about 50/50 public/private but it's not uncommon to be outnumbered 3-1 by out of state hunters on public land. It's a states right to set whatever fees it wants when it comes to its recourses. If it's too high people won't pay it and the state will adjust accordingly.
What needs to happen is for one of the multitude of "protected" classes to start complaining that they are being discriminated against by this common practice in several states. I've said this for years that the national lands belong to everyone equally. Keeping a resident of any of the other 49 states from hunting national land in MS while allowing their residents to run around wilynille is horse crap. Since I'm in a slam MS mood I'll mention again that their printed hunting guide has a quarter page Non-discriminatory policy regarding their NATIONAL Forest. Good for a chuckle.
Quote from: WCD4 on March 09, 2024, 05:15:22 PM
$500 for 3 turkeys and a month to hunt if you don't get drawn. Sounds like a bargain to me.
Let's have the non-res hunt the first two weeks with the residents then lock them out for last two weeks. An even better bargain. After all two weeks is two weeks. Fat chance.
Guess you'd prefer the other approach they could've taken? Which is drop the season back to an April start date in line with everyone else. Then you would have no opportunity to hunt Mississippi in March.
I don't think Mississippi is wrong here. I appreciate them taking care of their residents amongst the onslaught of non resident pressure since their state was burned. They have the data to back it up. It doesn't take a genius to see how much has been lost so far and what's coming down the pipeline in other states. Loose Lips sink ships. Bet it. You know it and I know it.
It's the typical pattern with all southern states ..one will initiate a" protectionist " (raised fee)out of state hunters and all the surrounding states follow suit QUICKLY
Florida started with the 100 or 125 turkey stamp ..all the others will likely reciprocate
Florida in the south zone ...started 1 week before the rest of the state ...then moved it to 2 weeks BIG MISTAKE .....people swarmed in
There are several other rules in Florida they need to revise...
Has anybody ever floated the idea of a delayed opener for non-residents, even if just on public land?
It's not unheard of. South Dakota, who I would assume has struggled with non-residents swamping their state chasing a prized gamebird, has a staggered pheasant season. For 2024: Youth 9/28-10/6, Resident ONLY 10/12-14, Traditional (includes non-Res) 10/19-1/31.
The famous Big Hole River in Montana has sections that have Saturday or Sunday closures to non-resident float fishing and all floating outfitters.
Look, I know it's not apples to apples, and I get it that the the main reason FL and MS are feeling hammered is because of their early openers and limited public lands. But... if increased fees and limited draws aren't relieving the non-resident pressure, maybe restrictive dates could be explored? I don't know, just a thought.
Quote from: Kylongspur88 on March 09, 2024, 05:27:25 PM
I know people don't like that sort of thing but I certainly understand why a state would do that. I'd personally like to see my state increase fees and go to a draw hunt for non residents to increase revenue and limit out of state pressure. The public land here has suffered from over pressure and the limit has had to be reduced on how many birds can be taken on public land. I hunt about 50/50 public/private but it's not uncommon to be outnumbered 3-1 by out of state hunters on public land. It's a states right to set whatever fees it wants when it comes to its recourses. If it's too high people won't pay it and the state will adjust accordingly.
I agree with this 100% and have been considering drawing something up to present to the commissioners about this.
I hunted the first 13 days of our season last year, the first 5 of that were on vacation time from work, getting to the public areas at 3 am and being in the woods until their feet touched the limb. And I can tell you, during those first 13 days, I saw 90% out of state tags. And it was like trying to use the urinal at a MLB game, as soon as one truck left there were 3 waiting to fill its spot. I've never seen anything like that. I would like to see a draw myself here. Or like Mississippi, a wild turkey stamp that costs more than a couple bucks. The way I see it, guys will pay 200$ to 600+$ for a call, 150$ to 700$ for a vest, 2,000$ for a gun, 500$ for a sight on that gun, and 500$ on the newest camo that's in style that year, 100,000$ for a truck, and 50+$ for a couple shells, they'll pay a couple hundred extra for a license. And if not, they don't need to be after them anyway. I'd gladly pay an increase in license fee if the money is going to turkeys in this state.
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The best option is just to draw out of state licences like SD does for ducks. Otherwise your just shifting the pressure.
But like OG said, this is going to have a domino effect that's going to hurt everyone, the prolific among us the worst.
As a traveler, I think it wouldn't hurt for them to have limited licenses for non residents. And hike up the price slightly. $500 is rather steep.
There are many states I hunt that have limited tags. These states have good turkey populations and public land isn't too crowded (from my experience).
I do have a chance every year to hunt private in MS. I tend to bypass southern states tho. Nothing against them, I just love being out west from my home state. But if I decided to take my friend up on a free private land hunt, I'd hate to pay $500 for a weekend and I won't do it. I would pay $2-300 and put in for a draw with an application fee, no problem.
Just my two cents. But I can see where residents of MS and other states are tired of their public land being bombarded. Again, a reasonable increase in licenses and a limited draw for non resident tags would help.
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on March 10, 2024, 07:11:15 AM
Quote from: Kylongspur88 on March 09, 2024, 05:27:25 PM
I know people don't like that sort of thing but I certainly understand why a state would do that. I'd personally like to see my state increase fees and go to a draw hunt for non residents to increase revenue and limit out of state pressure. The public land here has suffered from over pressure and the limit has had to be reduced on how many birds can be taken on public land. I hunt about 50/50 public/private but it's not uncommon to be outnumbered 3-1 by out of state hunters on public land. It's a states right to set whatever fees it wants when it comes to its recourses. If it's too high people won't pay it and the state will adjust accordingly.
I agree with this 100% and have been considering drawing something up to present to the commissioners about this.
I hunted the first 13 days of our season last year, the first 5 of that were on vacation time from work, getting to the public areas at 3 am and being in the woods until their feet touched the limb. And I can tell you, during those first 13 days, I saw 90% out of state tags. And it was like trying to use the urinal at a MLB game, as soon as one truck left there were 3 waiting to fill its spot. I've never seen anything like that. I would like to see a draw myself here. Or like Mississippi, a wild turkey stamp that costs more than a couple bucks. The way I see it, guys will pay 200$ to 600+$ for a call, 150$ to 700$ for a vest, 2,000$ for a gun, 500$ for a sight on that gun, and 500$ on the newest camo that's in style that year, 100,000$ for a truck, and 50+$ for a couple shells, they'll pay a couple hundred extra for a license. And if not, they don't need to be after them anyway. I'd gladly pay an increase in license fee if the money is going to turkeys in this state.
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Problem is getting KDFWR commission to actually deviate from anything that wasn't already being done 40 years ago. I honestly don't think any of them have any kind of vision for what hunting in general will look like in the next 10 years. The only way they'll budge is if groups like nwtf and other sportsman's groups put pressure on them, or if the media starts sniffing around and pointing out the issues they fail to address.
Quote from: Kylongspur88 on March 10, 2024, 11:13:56 AM
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on March 10, 2024, 07:11:15 AM
Quote from: Kylongspur88 on March 09, 2024, 05:27:25 PM
I know people don't like that sort of thing but I certainly understand why a state would do that. I'd personally like to see my state increase fees and go to a draw hunt for non residents to increase revenue and limit out of state pressure. The public land here has suffered from over pressure and the limit has had to be reduced on how many birds can be taken on public land. I hunt about 50/50 public/private but it's not uncommon to be outnumbered 3-1 by out of state hunters on public land. It's a states right to set whatever fees it wants when it comes to its recourses. If it's too high people won't pay it and the state will adjust accordingly.
I agree with this 100% and have been considering drawing something up to present to the commissioners about this.
I hunted the first 13 days of our season last year, the first 5 of that were on vacation time from work, getting to the public areas at 3 am and being in the woods until their feet touched the limb. And I can tell you, during those first 13 days, I saw 90% out of state tags. And it was like trying to use the urinal at a MLB game, as soon as one truck left there were 3 waiting to fill its spot. I've never seen anything like that. I would like to see a draw myself here. Or like Mississippi, a wild turkey stamp that costs more than a couple bucks. The way I see it, guys will pay 200$ to 600+$ for a call, 150$ to 700$ for a vest, 2,000$ for a gun, 500$ for a sight on that gun, and 500$ on the newest camo that's in style that year, 100,000$ for a truck, and 50+$ for a couple shells, they'll pay a couple hundred extra for a license. And if not, they don't need to be after them anyway. I'd gladly pay an increase in license fee if the money is going to turkeys in this state.
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Problem is getting KDFWR commission to actually deviate from anything that wasn't already being done 40 years ago. I honestly don't think any of them have any kind of vision for what hunting in general will look like in the next 10 years. The only way they'll budge is if groups like nwtf and other sportsman's groups put pressure on them, or if the media starts sniffing around and pointing out the issues they fail to address.
I'll be honest with you, I don't think that would help. I was a board member of the KY chapter of the Backcountry Hunters and Anglers for 2 years. I attempted to speak with the commissioners many times, most won't give you the time of day. They follow the money, plain and simple. And even within themselves you've got a couple that actually turkey hunt, and not like we do on the forum. You're weekend, pretty weather guys. The rest are clueless about the wildlife, habitat, season structure, etc.
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When hunting midwest states, many of the OOS vehicles have MS and/or AR plates...
Obviously time for total reciprocity. If my state's residents can't hunt your state's public nationally owned land with your residents during a part of the season then your residents can't hunt my state's public nationally owned land for an equal time period. I guess the Big Cypress and the Ocala National Forest will be the place for the Florida resident to be in the early season while chasing the Osceola. No pesky MS or others from a few nearby states will be there. Of course if your state doesn't discriminate enjoy the freedom of being an American with equal access to Florida's, and the nations', public land. For some reason the word "hypocrites" keeps popping up in my mind.
Quote from: joey46 on March 10, 2024, 06:26:05 PM
Obviously time for total reciprocity. If my state's residents can't hunt your state's public nationally owned land with your residents during a part of the season then your residents can't hunt my state's public nationally owned land for an equal time period. I guess the Big Cypress and the Ocala National Forest will be the place for the Florida resident to be in the early season while chasing the Osceola. No pesky MS or others from a few nearby states will be there. Of course if your state doesn't discriminate enjoy the freedom of being an American with equal access to Florida's, and the nations', public land. For some reason the word "hypocrites" keeps popping up in my mind.
For sure.
The worst part is........it wasn't always like it is now. Crowded yes. Suffocating no. Loose lips sink ships.
The price didn't detour any out of staters in my region of ms public on the youth hunt .
Several Arkansas tags invaded my favorite area .
If it helps any, it's worth reiterating that the feds (Forest Service and BLM) manage public land and that recreational access is open to all US citizens (and foreign visitors, for that matter). The specific act of taking game animals and fish is managed and regulated by the individual states.
All states allow for non-residents hunters and anglers to participate. How many they allow and how they manage those non-resident numbers is a balancing act with many factors, including resource (animals/fish), political (residence acceptance) and economic (outfitters/tourism), as well as others I'm sure.
Quote from: Howie g on March 10, 2024, 09:01:00 PM
The price didn't detour any out of staters in my region of ms public on the youth hunt .
Several Arkansas tags invaded my favorite area .
You guys do a dang good job in the assistance of ruining our duck hunting WMA's.
I like the reciprocity concept. But I think penalizing the OOS hunters on both ends is over the top. .I can see giving residents the first week, or upping the price of the tags for NR hunters. Both seems punitive, not proactive. My state has the same seasons and limits for every hunter. Youth weekend is the same for residents and non residents as well. The NR license is more expensive as it is and should be. We will never get 49 states to follow the same rules, not a chance. But the basic ideas should be similar. Protect the resource is and always should be #1. Economics play into it and should be a part of the equation. Fair chase and similar odds for all hunters. Fair doesnt always mean equal. :z-twocents: Z
Quote from: silent tom on March 11, 2024, 03:04:57 AM
Quote from: Howie g on March 10, 2024, 09:01:00 PM
The price didn't detour any out of staters in my region of ms public on the youth hunt .
Several Arkansas tags invaded my favorite area .
You guys do a dang good job in the assistance of ruining our duck hunting WMA's.
Now imagine if Mississippi cut its duck season down to 2 weeks.
The stamp cost doesn't bother me, especially given the funds are earmarked for turkeys. I've bought an OOS license in MS off and on for years, along with numerous other states.
What stings, and I'm not knocking them for doing it, is living 10 min from the state line and not being able to hunt places I've hunted for 30 years because I didn't draw the public land permit.
Throw in my home state pushing season back to April 15th and I've lost a month of opportunity.
Y'all keep clicking that LIKE and SUBSCRIBE button.......
So when's the last time your guys states added hunting land? Just out of curiosity.
If your going to take in a couple hundred thousand dollars on OOS license fees you better invest it in land.
Quote from: joey46 on March 10, 2024, 06:26:05 PM
Obviously time for total reciprocity. If my state's residents can't hunt your state's public nationally owned land with your residents during a part of the season then your residents can't hunt my state's public nationally owned land for an equal time period. I guess the Big Cypress and the Ocala National Forest will be the place for the Florida resident to be in the early season while chasing the Osceola. No pesky MS or others from a few nearby states will be there. Of course if your state doesn't discriminate enjoy the freedom of being an American with equal access to Florida's, and the nations', public land. For some reason the word "hypocrites" keeps popping up in my mind.
He's right you know.......
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Quote from: ruination on March 11, 2024, 09:59:40 PM
So when's the last time your guys states added hunting land? Just out of curiosity.
If your going to take in a couple hundred thousand dollars on OOS license fees you better invest it in land.
A couple hundred thousand ? More like a couple mil a year
Quote from: Howie g on March 11, 2024, 10:21:54 PM
Quote from: ruination on March 11, 2024, 09:59:40 PM
So when's the last time your guys states added hunting land? Just out of curiosity.
If your going to take in a couple hundred thousand dollars on OOS license fees you better invest it in land.
A couple hundred thousand ? More like a couple mil a year
Have no idea how many oos hunters travel through for turkey.
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Pretty sure non residents are limited to somewhere around 12,000 in the draw so 12,000 x 500? For the 1st 2 weeks.
Quote from: Greg Massey on March 09, 2024, 12:08:58 PM
The YEAR of Covid, changed everything about turkey hunting... IMO
YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH THIS ONE!!!
Quote from: Paulmyr on March 11, 2024, 10:28:59 PM
Pretty sure non residents are limited to somewhere around 12,000 in the draw so 12,000 x 500? For the 1st 2 weeks.
Way off. There are 1,100 NR open public lands endorsements issued.
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on March 11, 2024, 11:08:30 PM
Quote from: Paulmyr on March 11, 2024, 10:28:59 PM
Pretty sure non residents are limited to somewhere around 12,000 in the draw so 12,000 x 500? For the 1st 2 weeks.
Way off. There are 1,100 NR open public lands endorsements issued.
Is that it? I thought I remembered Adam Butler stating more. Hard to believe with all the ark plates i seen last year. Maybe I got my zeros mixed up.
Some on here are well misinformed. I haven't drawn public in 6 years. There are plenty of Arkansas tags around here and 1 North Carolina. This state is concerned about money, nothing else.
Quote from: MISSISSIPPI Double beard on March 17, 2024, 02:57:12 PM
Some on here are well misinformed. I haven't drawn public in 6 years. There are plenty of Arkansas tags around here and 1 North Carolina. This state is concerned about money, nothing else.
100 % true ,,,,
If they are just concerned about money.....why do non residents have to draw? Seems like they'd take everyone's money to come hunt.
Reciprocity reciprocity reciprocity for any state that pulls this stunt on a non-resident. Don't want to see a MS license tag in Big Cypress or any Florida National Forest the first two weeks of next year's turkey season. Stay home or be a hypocrite. Let's see how this works out.
Quote from: joey46 on March 17, 2024, 08:27:33 PM
Reciprocity reciprocity reciprocity for any state that pulls this stunt on a non-resident. Don't want to see a MS license tag in Big Cypress or any Florida National Forest the first two weeks of next year's turkey season. Stay home or be a hypocrite. Let's see how this works out.
Yeah right ,,, because it's the common sportsman from Ms fault.
Get real .
Yes it is since they have been the ones crying about the non-res hunting "their" NATIONAL FOREST. It isn't all about the money it is all about the votes.
Quote from: joey46 on March 17, 2024, 08:55:13 PM
Yes it is since they have been the ones crying about the non-res hunting "their" NATIONAL FOREST. It isn't all about the money it is all about the votes.
BAM!!!
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Quote from: joey46 on March 17, 2024, 08:55:13 PM
Yes it is since they have been the ones crying about the non-res hunting "their" NATIONAL FOREST. It isn't all about the money it is all about the votes.
Joey, when's the last time you hunted MS?
Florida needs to join the others with no out of state hunters for the 1st 2 weeks. Plenty of Alabama trucks around this weekend. And looks like THP was around the area as well. To many residents hunting now as well. Gonna need a quota draw just to make it safer.
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The major cause of the problem is people. Too many consumers chasing a limited resource. If only people had shut their mouths rather than blabbing about what an exciting and "inviting" endeavor turkey hunting "was". We have met the enemy an it is US. This the circumstance in which we find ourselves, Get used to it or find another endeavor .
Quote from: roberthyman14 on March 17, 2024, 09:59:24 PM
Florida needs to join the others with no out of state hunters for the 1st 2 weeks. Plenty of Alabama trucks around this weekend. And looks like THP was around the area as well. To many residents hunting now as well. Gonna need a quota draw just to make it safer.
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Nothing has taken away our rights more than the good ole safety excuse.
Let me do what I can to protect me, not the government with more restrictions
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Quote from: mudhen on March 10, 2024, 05:57:52 PM
When hunting midwest states, many of the OOS vehicles have MS and/or AR plates...
This is accurate for my state.....public land for us is absolutely covered up last 3 or 4 years...just saying.
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Make sure to like and subscribe.......loose lips sink ships.
Covid , you tubers and the new "look at me " young hunters craze " has certainly added to the over abundance of hunters on public ground in ms .
But I can assure you that nobody on this forum or anybody else drives though Ms public on a daily basis more then I ..... it was over crowded way before all these new issues . Facts ...
I honestly don't see this new Oos draw thing helping ... it's still over crowded .
Like silvestris stated , it's simply to many people in the timber . Adjust , or just don't go .
Mississippi really needs to start there season april 1st
Quote from: silvestris on March 18, 2024, 12:40:59 AM
The major cause of the problem is people. Too many consumers chasing a limited resource. If only people had shut their mouths rather than blabbing about what an exciting and "inviting" endeavor turkey hunting "was". We have met the enemy an it is US. This the circumstance in which we find ourselves, Get used to it or find another endeavor .
I agree and I've been saying this for years.
The major problem is your states don't reinvest in the resource.
Garbage land that holds plenty of turkeys is not exactly expensive.
But you guys would rather sell public land than buy more.
Extra couple acres here and there really adds up quick.
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Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 08:16:09 AM
Extra couple acres here and there really adds up quick...
Pennsylvania is a good example of this practice. Decades of doing just this.
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 08:16:09 AM
But you guys would rather sell public land than buy more.
Of course, the new short-sighted thinking is the Game Commission has too much public land. Legislature is pushing back on the Game Commission's further expansion using funds from licenses, sales of timber, and natural gas extracted from those public lands they manage. Same legislature attempted to transfer $150 million of those funds from the Game Commission into the general fund.
Even when a state gets it right, along comes a misguided faction who think only about today.
While helping to limit the amount of hunters, something else goes on it seems when these draw type of things happen. Like a psychological type deal with people or something. It's as if somehow a draw CREATES demand.
Example. This draw has now been in place for only 3 seasons.
Year 1, everyone who applied drew. Roughly 1k ppl applied (probably the same amount that mostly went before the draw)
Year 2, I think around 1500 applied so about 80% of the apps drew
Year 3, I believe over 2k people applied and now the odds were 50%.
Do you guys really think, if the draw never happened we would've had over 2k hunters that first 2 weeks this year? I somehow don't but I'm not sure. Maybe it's people having their whole
Families apply to try and up their odds? Maybe now the thing to do is like the YouTubers. All 6-8 people apply and long as 1 draws we can hunt and video and look cool.
The same sort of thing happened to the Idaho elk draw when they got away from OTC. The demand skyrocketed
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Quote from: joey46 on March 10, 2024, 06:26:05 PM
Obviously time for total reciprocity. If my state's residents can't hunt your state's public nationally owned land with your residents during a part of the season then your residents can't hunt my state's public nationally owned land for an equal time period. I guess the Big Cypress and the Ocala National Forest will be the place for the Florida resident to be in the early season while chasing the Osceola. No pesky MS or others from a few nearby states will be there. Of course if your state doesn't discriminate enjoy the freedom of being an American with equal access to Florida's, and the nations', public land. For some reason the word "hypocrites" keeps popping up in my mind.
Just because you're a "public land owner" doesn't mean you can do as you please outside of states harvest recommendations. Nobody is restricting your access to that ground. You can go walk around it all you want, you just can turkey hunt unless drawn. I could buy ground as an NR in IA and guess what, I'd still have to draw for deer and turkey.
Reciprocity for all. Anything else is hypocritical. Don't want to see any resident of these non-res restricting states in a Florida area such as Big Cypress or any of Florida's three NATIONAL Forest until the season is two weeks old. As my mother always said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I can't hunt your nationally owned land for the first two weeks you don't hunt mine for an equal period.
I drove through a nearby local piece of National Forest in N Miss Sunday evening and talked to a couple OOS hunters that had been hunting 2 1/2 days. They said they came to Miss because it was the only thing open beside Florida this early. They also said just because it is open early does not mean it is good. They said they have more birds where they came from.
Alabama delaying there regular season 10 days and farther delaying public land until April 1 has a lot to do with the situation. Also add Georgia, Tennessee, and Oklahoma from an early season to the delayed season group...... more turkey hunters than ever pursuing turkeys on public lands influenced by social media. It's the perfect storm.
I had a good discussion Saturday with a young man with a camera and a pinhoti hat. He told me about all the guys coming to hunt from out of state and it used to not be near this bad. I explained to him the evolution of Arkansas duck hunting and now the evolution of turkey hunting taking place before our eyes. I hope he took it to heart. Loose lips sink ships. Hunt because you love to play the game. Don't hunt because you need to be validated by strange men online.
We need hunter recruitment, young men have no interest anymore...
"Not like that!" :OGturkeyhead:
I've been hunting the southeast for 30+ years and it's always been crowded here. Recruiting turkey hunters may be good for up north or out west but not around here. The people recruiting hunters are brands that profit from public land hunters. Onx, first lite, mossy oak, thp etc.
Woodhaven turkey calls was a huge contributor to our current situation when they helped THP pimp out Alabama public. Now they are selling calls partnered with them. Mossy oak is pushing pinhoti. They are all laughing headed to the bank.
I stand with HowieG. Y'all take up crappie fishing................I hear it's a blast!!
Quote from: arkrem870 on March 09, 2024, 10:59:34 AM
Mississippi added a required $100 turkey permit on top of all the other fees. Be a $500 hunt now. Not to mention a non resident draw requirement to hunt all public lands including national forest and fed ground.
This is a disturbing trend that's playing out all across the country including my home state Arkansas. Directly related to the major increase in non resident hunters
Social media is the driver of the trend. I urge everyone to be a responsible consumer / user this season.
Good luck to everyone and remember loose lips sink ships
I understand the frustration, believe me.
The other side of the coin is, we have a finite resource. Everyone sees the decline in populations and part of that is harvest driven .
Everyone, including me, wants more opportunity and more turkeys but they don't want to limit harvest, or increase license fees.
If you want habitat development to increase populations, that costs money.
The alternative is do nothing, collapse the populations and the problem will solve itself.
So, I guess it comes down to increase license costs or let it go...
As much as I hate it, I'll tough up and pay I suppose...
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Quote from: Prohunter3509 on March 18, 2024, 07:31:46 AM
Mississippi really needs to start there season april 1st
Wrong!!
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 01:08:21 PM
Reciprocity for all. Anything else is hypocritical. Don't want to see any resident of these non-res restricting states in a Florida area such as Big Cypress or any of Florida's three NATIONAL Forest until the season is two weeks old. As my mother always said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I can't hunt your nationally owned land for the first two weeks you don't hunt mine for an equal period.
Again, when is the last time you hunted MS?
No idea.
The point is that what is in the table. Not buying more, but selling.
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2022/02/23/mississippi-hunting-public-land-black-prarie-wildlife-management-area-charles-younger-senator/6827262001/
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Quote from: arkrem870 on March 18, 2024, 02:30:31 PM
I've been hunting the southeast for 30+ years and it's always been crowded here. Recruiting turkey hunters may be good for up north or out west but not around here. The people recruiting hunters are brands that profit from public land hunters. Onx, first lite, mossy oak, thp etc.
Woodhaven turkey calls was a huge contributor to our current situation when they helped THP pimp out Alabama public. Now they are selling calls partnered with them. Mossy oak is pushing pinhoti. They are all laughing headed to the bank.
We're truly seeing a new era of market hunting. And we know how that ended last time.
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 01:08:21 PM
Reciprocity for all. Anything else is hypocritical. Don't want to see any resident of these non-res restricting states in a Florida area such as Big Cypress or any of Florida's three NATIONAL Forest until the season is two weeks old. As my mother always said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I can't hunt your nationally owned land for the first two weeks you don't hunt mine for an equal period.
Again, when is the last time you hunted MS?
There's a reason he's dodged that question twice jbird!
I like the idea of reciprocity. I haven't hunted MS but have hunted Florida several times. I have some boys in MS killing turkeys now, it won't be long before I am there. Probably next spring.
I will get they're pins for free, they're my boys!
We'll keep the pins tight, don't want to sink too many ships, just turkeys.
Quote from: dublelung on March 18, 2024, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 01:08:21 PM
Reciprocity for all. Anything else is hypocritical. Don't want to see any resident of these non-res restricting states in a Florida area such as Big Cypress or any of Florida's three NATIONAL Forest until the season is two weeks old. As my mother always said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I can't hunt your nationally owned land for the first two weeks you don't hunt mine for an equal period.
Again, when is the last time you hunted MS?
There's a reason he's dodged that question twice jbird!
Yes there is a reason because it means nothing in this discussion. If you think it does you are missing the whole point.You have a problem with reciprocity ?
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 08:27:13 PM
Quote from: dublelung on March 18, 2024, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 01:08:21 PM
Reciprocity for all. Anything else is hypocritical. Don't want to see any resident of these non-res restricting states in a Florida area such as Big Cypress or any of Florida's three NATIONAL Forest until the season is two weeks old. As my mother always said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I can't hunt your nationally owned land for the first two weeks you don't hunt mine for an equal period.
Again, when is the last time you hunted MS?
There's a reason he's dodged that question twice jbird!
Yes there is a reason because it means nothing in this discussion. If you think it does you are missing the whole point.You have a problem with reciprocity ?
Wonder how many of these boys go to Florida and then north to extend their seasons.
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I like the idea of the reciprocity. The state you reside dictates the cost you pay for a NR license and when you can start in comparison to the residents.
If your state jacks up the price for a NR license and holds NR out for 2 weeks, you also feel that when you hunt in the reciprocity state.
Pretty obvious that some have an issue with it.
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 08:27:13 PM
Quote from: dublelung on March 18, 2024, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 01:08:21 PM
Reciprocity for all. Anything else is hypocritical. Don't want to see any resident of these non-res restricting states in a Florida area such as Big Cypress or any of Florida's three NATIONAL Forest until the season is two weeks old. As my mother always said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I can't hunt your nationally owned land for the first two weeks you don't hunt mine for an equal period.
Again, when is the last time you hunted MS?
There's a reason he's dodged that question twice jbird!
Yes there is a reason because it means nothing in this discussion. If you think it does you are missing the whole point.You have a problem with reciprocity ?
It has everything to do with this discussion. You're giving an opinion on something you have no experience with, just as I expected. If you hunted here, you'd probably understand. Why no mention of Alabama's tougher OOS restrictions?
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 08:27:13 PM
Quote from: dublelung on March 18, 2024, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 01:08:21 PM
Reciprocity for all. Anything else is hypocritical. Don't want to see any resident of these non-res restricting states in a Florida area such as Big Cypress or any of Florida's three NATIONAL Forest until the season is two weeks old. As my mother always said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I can't hunt your nationally owned land for the first two weeks you don't hunt mine for an equal period.
Again, when is the last time you hunted MS?
There's a reason he's dodged that question twice jbird!
Yes there is a reason because it means nothing in this discussion. If you think it does you are missing the whole point.You have a problem with reciprocity ?
Wonder how many of these boys go to Florida and then north to extend their seasons.
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Never hunted Florida a day in my life.
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 08:27:13 PM
Quote from: dublelung on March 18, 2024, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 01:08:21 PM
Reciprocity for all. Anything else is hypocritical. Don't want to see any resident of these non-res restricting states in a Florida area such as Big Cypress or any of Florida's three NATIONAL Forest until the season is two weeks old. As my mother always said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I can't hunt your nationally owned land for the first two weeks you don't hunt mine for an equal period.
Again, when is the last time you hunted MS?
There's a reason he's dodged that question twice jbird!
Yes there is a reason because it means nothing in this discussion. If you think it does you are missing the whole point.You have a problem with reciprocity ?
Wonder how many of these boys go to Florida and then north to extend their seasons.
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Never hunted Florida a day in my life.
And....this was a two part statement lol.
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Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 08:57:03 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 08:27:13 PM
Quote from: dublelung on March 18, 2024, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 01:08:21 PM
Reciprocity for all. Anything else is hypocritical. Don't want to see any resident of these non-res restricting states in a Florida area such as Big Cypress or any of Florida's three NATIONAL Forest until the season is two weeks old. As my mother always said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I can't hunt your nationally owned land for the first two weeks you don't hunt mine for an equal period.
Again, when is the last time you hunted MS?
There's a reason he's dodged that question twice jbird!
Yes there is a reason because it means nothing in this discussion. If you think it does you are missing the whole point.You have a problem with reciprocity ?
Wonder how many of these boys go to Florida and then north to extend their seasons.
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Never hunted Florida a day in my life.
And....this was a two part statement lol.
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Ok..AND I've never hunted in another state after season was closed in my own. Did I miss anything else or are you just out of bullets now? Lol
Quote from: CALLM2U on March 18, 2024, 08:48:59 PM
I like the idea of the reciprocity. The state you reside dictates the cost you pay for a NR license and when you can start in comparison to the residents.
If your state jacks up the price for a NR license and holds NR out for 2 weeks, you also feel that when you hunt in the reciprocity state.
Ok, since we're advocating for reciprocity here..if you come from a state with a 1 or 2 bird limit, then that's all you get when you come to MS. I bet that just slammed the brakes on that now didn't it. The Ark folks come here and get 3 cheaper than I can get 1 for in their state. So YES, reciprocity for ALL on ALL accounts!
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 08:57:03 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 08:27:13 PM
Quote from: dublelung on March 18, 2024, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 01:08:21 PM
Reciprocity for all. Anything else is hypocritical. Don't want to see any resident of these non-res restricting states in a Florida area such as Big Cypress or any of Florida's three NATIONAL Forest until the season is two weeks old. As my mother always said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I can't hunt your nationally owned land for the first two weeks you don't hunt mine for an equal period.
Again, when is the last time you hunted MS?
There's a reason he's dodged that question twice jbird!
Yes there is a reason because it means nothing in this discussion. If you think it does you are missing the whole point.You have a problem with reciprocity ?
Wonder how many of these boys go to Florida and then north to extend their seasons.
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Never hunted Florida a day in my life.
And....this was a two part statement lol.
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Ok..AND I've never hunted in another state after season was closed in my own. Did I miss anything else or are you just out of bullets now? Lol
But you have hunted other states.
There's no real bullets. And there's more than one person in this thread.
For example, I have zero desire to hunt MS. But even I can recognize shitty money grabs.
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Reciprocity. A big word that says it all. The day will come when all the non-res discrimination will prove fruitless. Then shorter seasons and reduced bag limits will be needed but the resident whiners will fight that tooth and nail. Selfish and hypocritical.
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 08:57:03 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 08:27:13 PM
Quote from: dublelung on March 18, 2024, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 01:08:21 PM
Reciprocity for all. Anything else is hypocritical. Don't want to see any resident of these non-res restricting states in a Florida area such as Big Cypress or any of Florida's three NATIONAL Forest until the season is two weeks old. As my mother always said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I can't hunt your nationally owned land for the first two weeks you don't hunt mine for an equal period.
Again, when is the last time you hunted MS?
There's a reason he's dodged that question twice jbird!
Yes there is a reason because it means nothing in this discussion. If you think it does you are missing the whole point.You have a problem with reciprocity ?
Wonder how many of these boys go to Florida and then north to extend their seasons.
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Never hunted Florida a day in my life.
And....this was a two part statement lol.
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Ok..AND I've never hunted in another state after season was closed in my own. Did I miss anything else or are you just out of bullets now? Lol
But you have hunted other states.
There's no real bullets. And there's more than one person in this thread.
For example, I have zero desire to hunt MS. But even I can recognize shitty money grabs.
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Yes, but you plainly said starting early and extending. I've never done either.
Again, come hunt here and you'll probably understand that something HAS to be done. The reports I've heard from a certain NF here over opening weekend were insane.
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 09:12:04 PM
Reciprocity. A big word that says it all. The day will come when all the non-res discrimination will prove fruitless. Then shorter seasons and reduced bag limits will be needed but the resident whiners will fight that tooth and nail. Selfish and hypocritical.
Read reply #82 please...people want to use words like reciprocity when it benefits them for their personal cherry-picked angles. When other unintended angles of reciprocity are presented, the argument tends to fade.
Is it reciprocal that people from other states can come to MS and kill more here than I can in their states? Or should your great debate of reciprocity only apply to license costs?
Sure.
Put your opener in line with or slightly after others. That has been shown to be good for the turkeys anyways.
Reduce NR bag limits.
Cut down on permits.
But there absolutely should be reciprocity. You should pay $500 wherever you go. Specially since your pushing hunters to other states.
If you would just ADAPT .....
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 09:12:04 PM
.... Selfish and hypocritical.
Agreed. They will say it's about the bird, but they really prefer 20,000 people to kill 10,000 birds rather than 40,000 people kill 10,000 birds. Because that would mean less for them and more for others. We can't have that....
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 09:19:47 PM
Sure.
Put your opener in line with or slightly after others. That has been shown to be good for the turkeys anyways.
Reduce NR bag limits.
Cut down on permits.
But there absolutely should be reciprocity. You should pay $500 wherever you go. Specially since your pushing hunters to other states.
Neighboring states who pushed their openers back is what pushed more hunters here. Kudos to MS for not following suit so far.
Pretty sure it'd cost me $500 to go to Ark and kill 1 bird. So they'd be getting a bargain to pay $500 for 3 here, right?
I'm done replying to folks who have NO experience with hunting MS? Come hunt here next year and see for yourself is all I can say.
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 09:32:12 PM
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 09:19:47 PM
Sure.
Put your opener in line with or slightly after others. That has been shown to be good for the turkeys anyways.
Reduce NR bag limits.
Cut down on permits.
But there absolutely should be reciprocity. You should pay $500 wherever you go. Specially since your pushing hunters to other states.
Neighboring states who pushed their openers back is what pushed more hunters here. Kudos to MS for not following suit so far.
I'm done replying to folks who have NO experience with hunting MS? Come hunt here next year and see for yourself is all I can say.
Yep. And instead of pushing yours back you're making a money grab.
People are still going to pay it. But hey, at least you guys will have money to...do something totally unrelated to turkeys with.
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OPINIONS,,, the old saying , there like ———— , everybody's got one ,comes to mind .
Reciprocity? Should Mississippi only allow Wisconsin residents to 7 days worth of hunting and a draw?
Iowa residents to their portion of a 252 total non resident tags drawn per 7 day season?
Or Illinois residents to draw only, and 1 bird?
Indiana residents to 1 bird?
Arkansas to 1 bird and 2 weeks to hunt?
Missouri to 2, and only one in the first week so they have to come twice to fill them both?
Kansas to a draw?
Mississippi's season is wide open for 30 days and 3 turkeys to everyone in the country. During the draw, it's what, one of 2 states that are open? Again, let them drop it back to April first, instead of a 2 week draw, then no one can hunt in Ms in March. What good does that do for anyone? I do not see how Mississippi is the enemy here.
Quote from: Coldbeer on March 18, 2024, 09:57:06 PM
Reciprocity? Should Mississippi only allow Wisconsin residents to 7 days worth of hunting and a draw?
Iowa residents to their portion of a 252 total non resident tags drawn per 7 day season?
Or Illinois residents to draw only, and 1 bird?
Indiana residents to 1 bird?
Arkansas to 1 bird and 2 weeks to hunt?
Missouri to 2, and only one in the first week so they have to come twice to fill them both?
Kansas to a draw?
Mississippi's season is wide open for 30 days and 3 turkeys to everyone in the country. During the draw, it's what, one of 2 states that are open? Again, let them drop it back to April first, instead of a 2 week draw, then no one can hunt in Ms in March. What good does that do for anyone? I do not see how Mississippi is the enemy here.
This really isn't a hard concept. Youyr comparing things done in the name of hunting quality and conservation, a lot of which residents themselves have to abide by, to something done to make money.
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 09:14:43 PM
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 08:57:03 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: ruination on March 18, 2024, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 08:27:13 PM
Quote from: dublelung on March 18, 2024, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: Jbird22 on March 18, 2024, 03:22:29 PM
Quote from: joey46 on March 18, 2024, 01:08:21 PM
Reciprocity for all. Anything else is hypocritical. Don't want to see any resident of these non-res restricting states in a Florida area such as Big Cypress or any of Florida's three NATIONAL Forest until the season is two weeks old. As my mother always said "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I can't hunt your nationally owned land for the first two weeks you don't hunt mine for an equal period.
Again, when is the last time you hunted MS?
There's a reason he's dodged that question twice jbird!
Yes there is a reason because it means nothing in this discussion. If you think it does you are missing the whole point.You have a problem with reciprocity ?
Wonder how many of these boys go to Florida and then north to extend their seasons.
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Never hunted Florida a day in my life.
And....this was a two part statement lol.
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Ok..AND I've never hunted in another state after season was closed in my own. Did I miss anything else or are you just out of bullets now? Lol
But you have hunted other states.
There's no real bullets. And there's more than one person in this thread.
For example, I have zero desire to hunt MS. But even I can recognize shitty money grabs.
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Yes, but you plainly said starting early and extending. I've never done either.
Again, come hunt here and you'll probably understand that something HAS to be done. The reports I've heard from a certain NF here over opening weekend were insane.
I've been a life time NF non resident hunter. Do I like the new draw? Hell no especially since I didn't draw and see the odds just getting worse.
Do I think a move was needed? Yes, I just don't know which move would be best. One move that would have been nice is to ban videoing for profit on public lands. Really kick the teeth in on the ones that made this become a mess so fast.
Now, on to the "claims to unreal crowds". Most of it is from big cry babies. I've seen the crowds, been part of the crowds, and hunted with the crowds for years in some of the heaviest hunted areas. I've likely hunted more of the NF as a NR than you have as a resident. So I'm not speaking on "what I have heard".
To make that claim now with the limited numbers in the draw makes it seem even more like just cry babies being babies. I've never struggled to find a place to hunt in peace or to kill my birds. I rarely ever had to even hunt into April.
Alabama and such pushing seasons back def did not help the Ms situation. I do think if just a few states opened together it would accomplish the same thing pressure wise as the draw did, without needing a draw but I do think it's good MS didn't push theirs back and penalize the residents. The WORST thing to do is have different seasons public/private. WTF Bama? Georgia???
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Quote from: Coldbeer on March 18, 2024, 09:57:06 PM
Reciprocity? Should Mississippi only allow Wisconsin residents to 7 days worth of hunting and a draw?
Iowa residents to their portion of a 252 total non resident tags drawn per 7 day season?
Or Illinois residents to draw only, and 1 bird?
Indiana residents to 1 bird?
Arkansas to 1 bird and 2 weeks to hunt?
Missouri to 2, and only one in the first week so they have to come twice to fill them both?
Kansas to a draw?
Mississippi's season is wide open for 30 days and 3 turkeys to everyone in the country. During the draw, it's what, one of 2 states that are open? Again, let them drop it back to April first, instead of a 2 week draw, then no one can hunt in Ms in March. What good does that do for anyone? I do not see how Mississippi is the enemy here.
Exactly my point! People love throwing around words like reciprocity until they realize what true reciprocity means. I'm glad you fully understand the full version as I do.
Nearly all of us here like turkey hunting, and id wager most also don't like crowds.
I don't know what the answer is because I see a scary trend in restricted access and pricing hunters out of opportunity but there's also a massive rise in demand on a finite resource.
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Quote from: TauntoHawk on March 18, 2024, 10:44:49 PM
Nearly all of us here like turkey hunting, and id wager most also don't like crowds.
I don't know what the answer is because I see a scary trend in restricted access and pricing hunters out of opportunity but there's also a massive rise in demand on a finite resource.
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Only true way, or easiest way out of this is more public lands but there likely won't be any meaningful increases there. Timber companies owning tons of the land and turning it into nothing more than pine thickets don't help.
The pricing excuse is just that, a made up excuse. If people can't afford a few hundred dollars a year to do what they love, then they just don't love it like they claim. Those same guys likely can be seen buying $7 cans of dip everyday, drinking all week, driving around in new vehicles, and letting their ole lady shop Amazon all day.
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The only TRUE way out of this in many areas is quota hunts for everyone on public land, reduced limits (3 public land birds - really - oink), and shortened seasons. Squeezing the non-res out of NATIONALLY owned land is discrimination and no quarter page statement in a hunting guide gets around that. It is discrimination and is no matter what State does it. It will at some point come back and bite you in the butt. Anyone that thinks squeezing the non-res out by any means possible will return their state to the glory days is foolish. I play the Florida quota game with preference points and limited draws and while a PIA does assure an occasional good public land hunt. A non-res here is playing on equal footing. Some believe too equal and also whine about to the game commission. I like being able to head north and hunt the Daniel Boone on opening day in KY or the Wayne in Ohio on opening day if I desire. So far they haven't caved to their state's whiners. If you don't see this MS non-res discrimination is politically motivated your head is in the sand. Is it really all about the birds or all about the locals' votes?
Quote from: arkrem870 on March 18, 2024, 02:00:39 PM
Alabama delaying there regular season 10 days and farther delaying public land until April 1 has a lot to do with the situation. Also add Georgia, Tennessee, and Oklahoma from an early season to the delayed season group...... more turkey hunters than ever pursuing turkeys on public lands influenced by social media. It's the perfect storm.
I had a good discussion Saturday with a young man with a camera and a pinhoti hat. He told me about all the guys coming to hunt from out of state and it used to not be near this bad. I explained to him the evolution of Arkansas duck hunting and now the evolution of turkey hunting taking place before our eyes. I hope he took it to heart. Loose lips sink ships. Hunt because you love to play the game. Don't hunt because you need to be validated by strange men online.
WELL SAID!
I'm not for a big pushback on the season here in Mississippi but I'd like for it to match bamas. At least it wouldn't be all crosshairs on Mississippi come March 15th. I've hunted Florida and I've seen what social media has done to south Florida. It's ridiculous and they better get a grip on it fast. Last year was crazy. This year was worse!!
I believe even a portion of the Big Cypress went into an early quota this year BUT the non-resident was on equal footing in the draw. That's the meaning of "National".
I am not a fan of pushing back season. There is no evidence that it has helped in any other states. Also, MS has the best guy in the country at the helm as lead turkey biologist, so for that we should be thankful. The public that I hunt is no worse than it was in 1997 when I took a college visit day to hunt and road a bike several miles in only to have a guy slip in between me and the turkey and shoot him 75 yards in front of me. We've got it pretty good down here.
I personally think Mississippi handled things perfectly... as stated, there's no evidence to support pushing seasons back has helped. Too many states jumping on that bandwagon in my opinion. Other states doing that meant Mississippi had to make a change. They did so to relieve pressure but also remove as little opportunity as possible. Sure I hate that I have to draw a tag if I want to hunt there. It sucks. But I think it was really the best option to handle the increased pressure without removing tons of opportunity. I don't like the trend of trying to price people out of hunting in general but it is what it is.
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Quote from: Kygobblergetter on March 19, 2024, 08:35:06 AM
I personally think Mississippi handled things perfectly... as stated, there's no evidence to support pushing seasons back has helped. Too many states jumping on that bandwagon in my opinion. Other states doing that meant Mississippi had to make a change. They did so to relieve pressure but also remove as little opportunity as possible. Sure I hate that I have to draw a tag if I want to hunt there. It sucks. But I think it was really the best option to handle the increased pressure without removing tons of opportunity. I don't like the trend of trying to price people out of hunting in general but it is what it is.
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Agree
Quote from: Shiloh on March 19, 2024, 06:48:13 AM
I am not a fan of pushing back season. There is no evidence that it has helped in any other states. Also, MS has the best guy in the country at the helm as lead turkey biologist, so for that we should be thankful. The public that I hunt is no worse than it was in 1997 when I took a college visit day to hunt and road a bike several miles in only to have a guy slip in between me and the turkey and shoot him 75 yards in front of me. We've got it pretty good down here.
Yes
Quote from: arkrem870 on March 09, 2024, 10:59:34 AM
Mississippi added a required $100 turkey permit on top of all the other fees. Be a $500 hunt now. Not to mention a non resident draw requirement to hunt all public lands including national forest and fed ground.
This is a disturbing trend that's playing out all across the country including my home state Arkansas. Directly related to the major increase in non resident hunters
Social media is the driver of the trend. I urge everyone to be a responsible consumer / user this season.
Good luck to everyone and remember loose lips sink ships
Ha this was basically a retort to Arkansas pulling all of the oos shenanigans they did with their waterfowl season. It always cracks me up someone from Arkansas complaining about other out of state fees and then some of those same people complaining about out of staters ruining flooded timber in Arkansas.
I am in agreeance with you that is is a little ridiculous. You may not be one of those Arkansas guys that hates oos duck hunters coming to your state but you can thank those that do have a problem with it for the sudden cost rise in Mississippi oos turkey costs.
Except Arkansas left full access to federal lands..... whereas Mississippi did not. They only restricted state owned lands for non residents
As a Mississippi rez I see both sides. It is NF and Public land but IT IS Ridulous the amoiunt of OOSH that pour in bc of a M15 opener. Not sure of the answer that solves ALL the pblms but a handle has got to be gotten on that! Maybe all the Southern states could open the same day or something? As far as limitations on non rez licenses I think our fat cat politicians are pulling the wool over our eyes. As in" the last 10 years we have averaged 1,498 non Rez licences so let's " limit" it to 1497 and try to keep the locals happy..."????
Quote from: Prospector on March 20, 2024, 05:45:50 PM
As a Mississippi rez I see both sides. It is NF and Public land but IT IS Ridulous the amoiunt of OOSH that pour in bc of a M15 opener. Not sure of the answer that solves ALL the pblms but a handle has got to be gotten on that! Maybe all the Southern states could open the same day or something? As far as limitations on non rez licenses I think our fat cat politicians are pulling the wool over our eyes. As in" the last 10 years we have averaged 1,498 non Rez licences so let's " limit" it to 1497 and try to keep the locals happy..."???
The last sentence in this post is 100% spot on .
Quote from: BB30 on March 19, 2024, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: arkrem870 on March 09, 2024, 10:59:34 AM
Mississippi added a required $100 turkey permit on top of all the other fees. Be a $500 hunt now. Not to mention a non resident draw requirement to hunt all public lands including national forest and fed ground.
This is a disturbing trend that's playing out all across the country including my home state Arkansas. Directly related to the major increase in non resident hunters
Social media is the driver of the trend. I urge everyone to be a responsible consumer / user this season.
Good luck to everyone and remember loose lips sink ships
Ha this was basically a retort to Arkansas pulling all of the oos shenanigans they did with their waterfowl season. It always cracks me up someone from Arkansas complaining about other out of state fees and then some of those same people complaining about out of staters ruining flooded timber in Arkansas.
I am in agreeance with you that is is a little ridiculous. You may not be one of those Arkansas guys that hates oos duck hunters coming to your state but you can thank those that do have a problem with it for the sudden cost rise in Mississippi oos turkey costs.
Arkansas resident here and I was a HUGE opponent to the BS they have done to the Non Residents. It is horrible on the WMAs now. The splits that they can hunt are freaking crazy. Boats are stacked up like they have never been before. Now you got growing support for a draw system for OOS...It's like people cannot understand how this could negatively impact their hunting opportunities.
I'm for opening things up and letting nature take it's course. If you can't handle the heat on public ground, then hang it up.
Forum member Prospector added a reasonable suggestion in reply #9 on the Kansas Advisory thread. Some might want to take a look at it. Good topic for another "discussion" or be added to this one. It would be reciprocity most could live with in regards to public land turkey just about anywhere.
Quote from: joey46 on March 22, 2024, 05:58:57 AM
Forum member Prospector added a reasonable suggestion in reply #9 on the Kansas Advisory thread. Some might want to take a look at it. Good topic for another "discussion" or be added to this one. It would be reciprocity most could live with in regards to public land turkey just about anywhere.
That is why I have said multiple times in this thread that reciprocity must apply from ALL angles if you're going to apply it at all. It can't just apply to license fees but to not bag limits/season length/etc... Otherwise, it's not true reciprocity!
Restrictions sound good until they affect you.
Now, it wouldn't matter to a large majority as most probably don't hunt as much as they act like they do, but there's tons of early opener states residents who can't wait to run up north and catch openers elsewhere after they kill some at home.
This can be a very slippery slope that needs to be well thought out long term.
I do believe residents should reap some benefits but at what cost I'm not sure. I do think the WORST solution is different openers in the same stat from public/private. That probably HURTS the public lands more
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North Dakota and Reciprocity wouldn't work to well. But, I don't live in ND, works fine for me.
My boys came home early from their trip to Mississippi. They had a good time and didn't see an overly large amount of pressure. They had good luck, especially for never being in the state before. Happy with the three bird limit.
Only had one day that they interacted with another hunter!
Seen one rattler late last week. Other than that a great trip, worth their price of playing in the game. I wasn't there but it didn't sound too bad to me. They even camped with some young Arkansas guys one night...
It really sucks to not draw two years in a row.... What crap luck
Quote from: WV Flopper on March 22, 2024, 08:10:57 PM
North Dakota and Reciprocity wouldn't work to well. But, I don't live in ND, works fine for me.
Won't work in Alaska either. Reciprocity of some type would be a reasonable compromise for most of the States in the Eastern turkey's range. Just another IMO to piz off some but any State acting like they are worried about turkey numbers that allows their hunters (res or non-res) to take three birds on public land is playing a political game. Play all they want but not on federal land that I should be able to access and hunt the same as any other of the nations residents.