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Does bad calling on public or private land for gobblers have an advantage sometimes over good calling / cadence? Why i ask this question on a lot of these YouTube video's and especially on some of these outdoor channels these people are using less than desirable calls and you can tell from watching them, they haven't practiced and they still manage to call up gobblers and make the kill... It's amazing how much they spend on camera equipment etc.  So again advantage or disadvantage?

So is calling overrated in most cases? 

What do you strive for in calling gobblers?

I do know some of you don't watch YouTube, but i do know you hunt public and private ground and have heard some pretty bad calling and some pretty good calling.

Bad calling will rarely be an advantage.  Sometimes the turkeys don't seem to mind much.  If you find the right bird on the right day, bad calling can still get him in.  Yes, I've heard some real hens that sounded pretty bad, but overall, good calling is better.

I'm not a very good caller.  But I mainly work on purring, I believe purring and leaf scratching will get more birds in range vs tons of yelping.   

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I believe location trumps calling almost every time . Being where that turkey wants to be or is comfortable coming to is a huge part of the puzzle. Although I try to be as real as I can with my calling and just enough to keep him coming . Kinda like reeling in a fish ! From a calling standpoint I do think that a little more practice for some wouldn't hurt .

In my opinion, for most scenarios, the realism doesn't matter as long as you say what he wants to hear when he wants to hear it and you're set up in a spot he wants to be. But, with that being said, I feel realism is going to kill more turkey when they've been hammered by the other guys first. But, you can be the best grand national caller to walk the earth and if you don't know when or what to say, or set up where the bird doesn't want to go, you're not going to call up very many. If that makes sense. I called up and killed an awful lot of turkey when I thought I sounded less than realistic when I was starting out. But one day, I was hunting a family farm and unbeknownst to me, a cousin was on the same farm and I was working a bird with a hen and didn't get him. I walked out of the holler and ran in to his set up about 75 yards away out the opposite ridge and he asked me if I heard those two hens going at it. I told him there was only one hen and me having some words. He told me that i sounded exactly like the hen and after that, hunting on public land, i seemed to be eating more turkey than other guys hunting the same areas. 


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I think if the Tom's in the mood, he's coming to a hen sound, even if it's sub-par. I rather be a good caller than a bad caller, but I have heard some hens that sounded like a beginner on a mouth diaphragm. The right set-up and simple leaf scratching has killed many 3 year old Tom's for sure....

Worst calling I ever heard was a real hen, lol. Our ears are different than our prey. Keep them interested or wondering and you have a chance. Their senses are far superior to ours. Patience and preparation is how we beat them. Z

I guess the questions I have is, are these poor callers you are seeing on YouTube calling up gobblers or is there a decoy in the works drawing them in?

Quote from: Paulmyr on February 28, 2024, 01:16:26 PM
I guess the questions I have is, are these poor callers you are seeing on YouTube calling up gobblers or is there a decoy in the works drawing them in?

I think it's some of both, but getting that gobbler's attention in most cases you still at least have to make a squawking sound.  Hey I'm over here.

Does "Poor" calling immediately turn off a gobbler? Or does it make him more "skiddish" on his way in, maybe causing him to hang up just out of gun range?

  Excellent Thread!
    I have been bouncing around and watching lesser known Utube Turkey Groups  and sometimes just a single Hunter.
    I have heard bad calling mostly on the Horseshoe Mouth Diaphragms.  That is all some were using. Somehow the Gobblers kept coming.
   I only hunt Public. You can't  make any mistakes  there. I think a Private Land Gobbler if unpressurized will probably  keep coming on.

Quote from: Greg Massey on February 28, 2024, 01:24:17 PM

Quote from: Paulmyr on February 28, 2024, 01:16:26 PM
I guess the questions I have is, are these poor callers you are seeing on YouTube calling up gobblers or is there a decoy in the works drawing them in?

I think it's some of both, but getting that gobbler's attention in most cases you still at least have to make a squawking sound.  Hey I'm over here.

I agree. I maybe should have expanded a little and said  "a decoy in the works drawing them the last bit enabling a shot".

Quote from: Tom007 on February 28, 2024, 01:24:38 PM
Does "Poor" calling immediately turn off a gobbler? Or does it make him more "skiddish" on his way in, maybe causing him to hang up just out of gun range?

I do think it can cause a gobbler to shy away. But in all honesty it shouldn't , i think having yourself in the right position and where he wants to go is important.


Good question Tom, i look forward to what others think...

Personally, I don't think any of us has the slightest idea of what GOOD calling is.  I'll explain.  We are human beings and are hunting a wild animal.  For the most part, we all have that Perfect Hen in OUR HEAD.  We try to immolate that hen.  We buy calls because of that hen.  We have calling contests, entered by humans and judged by humans and award what those judges think is the World Champion based on this bias.  To me, there is only one judge we should rely on and that is that Gobbler we are trying to bag.  It is evident, all of us has bias on this forum, because everyone of us agree to disagree of what we think the Best call is.  We ALL get beat, even World Champions, every day of the season.  I believe calling and woodsmanship play a very Big part in calling in that gobbler and it depends on what that gobbler has in his HEAD on any given day.  Carry a bunch of different calls every hunt and see which one will get in HIS HEAD.  You may be surprised.

Great Thread Greg.  I think we will see some great comments.

Mediocre calling and good woodsmanship trumps awesome calling and poor woodsmanship when it comes to killing turkey.

It is more important to understand WHAT you are saying and WHEN to say it than it is to just sound like a world champion.

As far as the woodsmanship part, a lot of that is the set up like has previously been mentioned. And moving through the woods undetected, understand turkey patterns and behavior, etc.

Quote from: bbcoach on February 28, 2024, 01:43:54 PM
Personally, I don't think any of us has the slightest idea of what GOOD calling is.  I'll explain.  We are human beings and are hunting a wild animal.  For the most part, we all have that Perfect Hen in OUR HEAD.  We try to immolate that hen.  We buy calls because of that hen.  We have calling contests, entered by humans and judged by humans and award what those judges think is the World Champion based on this bias.  To me, there is only one judge we should rely on and that is that Gobbler we are trying to bag.  It is evident, all of us has bias on this forum, because everyone of us agree to disagree of what we think the Best call is.  We ALL get beat, even World Champions, every day of the season.  I believe calling and woodsmanship play a very Big part in calling in that gobbler and it depends on what that gobbler has in his HEAD on any given day.  Carry a bunch of different calls every hunt and see which one will get in HIS HEAD.  You may be surprised.

Good Point ...

Bad calling is never an advantage. However, most people haven't listened to a lot of turkeys. Growing up, I was around them constantly. You learn things if you pay attention. I have no aspirations of being a competition caller. However, I am better than average, and more importantly, I feel completely at home calling to them. In the woods, I can typically pick out a hunter on the first series of calls I hear from them. Probably 90% accurate. I have been 100% on box calls for some reason. I know they are very effective, but so far, I can pick them out in the woods every time. I have run into a few that were good on diaphragms that had me guessing. Being able to replicate the sounds of a turkey is one thing. Being able to call like one is another beast entirely.

Cadence is king.  Sure you got to have a turkey tone but it's very secondary.

Quote from: Gooserbat on February 28, 2024, 03:04:39 PM
Cadence is king.  Sure you got to have a turkey tone but it's very secondary.

I tune my tube calls to male tones and it's the cadence/rhythm. When conventional wisdom has them call shy and people say you can't call, I've been the oldest, hottest, bossiest hen in the woods to good effect. An old turkey man once told me if you are sounding EXACTLY like a turkey, the worst thing that can happen is he just ignores you. Good thread and as most know on here you reach a point you're not making calls anymore, you're trying to talk with them. Almost ain't good enough on pressured birds. As Happy pointed out, they do a lot more than yelp.

Quote from: Happy on February 28, 2024, 02:28:59 PM
Bad calling is never an advantage. However, most people haven't listened to a lot of turkeys. Growing up, I was around them constantly. You learn things if you pay attention. I have no aspirations of being a competition caller. However, I am better than average, and more importantly, I feel completely at home calling to them. In the woods, I can typically pick out a hunter on the first series of calls I hear from them. Probably 90% accurate. I have been 100% on box calls for some reason. I know they are very effective, but so far, I can pick them out in the woods every time. I have run into a few that were good on diaphragms that had me guessing. Being able to replicate the sounds of a turkey is one thing. Being able to call like one is another beast entirely.

Dang, it hurts me to say this, but I completely agree with Happy. I have argued many times with my buddies over this. I remember one day in a national forest I heard a bird hammering and we slipped across a ridge to listen. I told my buddy I bet someone was set up on him. When we got about 300 yards above the gobbler I sat down to listen. My buddy exclaimed, I hear a hen, maybe we can cut him off". I said, "it's a hunter calling" and he insisted it was a hen. I told him we were not moving an inch, but we'd hang out for the shot. I offered to bet dinner but somehow he declined. About 10 minutes later, boom and silence. I jabbed him in the ribs and told him, "never doubt me again".  I probably have exceptional hearing for my age, but it doesn't help me that much. It's all in the tone and cadence and knowing the language, as Happy said. There's sort of a hollow yet complete tone to a real turkey and most hunters don't have it. I hear it best off mouth calls, but there are some good friction callers too. Now for the meat, gooserbat is right, cadence is king. The queen is knowing what to say when. Most hunters approach a turkey hunt like a teenage girl at a sleepover, I got to talk over everyone else and say more, and throw in a few giggles. The girl that leaves the bar with the guy gave him a coy look and smile and a sweet hello, my name is horny. Since we can't give him that look and smile from afar, we best learn to say, want to come over to my place as sweet and sexy as possible. Fortunately most gobblers are like horny teenage boys and ready to hump anything that'll hold still, so mediocre calling will do most of the time. But if your trying to coerce  the pastor's daughter to slip out of church with you, I suggest  you talk sweet and low and be convincing. Oh yeah, location is a big plus. Your chances of getting the pastor's daughter out of that church aren't good, but a bar or party increases your odds. Find out where old tom goes to party and your gonna score more often. The moral of this teenage girl rant is, good calling scores more gobblers, but it ain't everything. I say there's four factors associated with success and you need to meet at least three of them to kill him:
Location
Gobbler's mood
Making the right call at the right time
Calling quality (cadence and tone)


Like poker, there are wild cards; A decoy will trump at least one of the above. Competition is the other wild card, that's why reaping is deadly.

Confirmation Bias. :turkey2:

That "Hollow" sound eggshell talks about is exactly the word that I was looking for. Just my opinion, that is why a trumpet call "can" be effective.
This thread is slam full of knowledge and wisdom.

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Quote from: tal on February 28, 2024, 03:44:23 PM
Almost ain't good enough on pressured birds. As Happy pointed out, they do a lot more than yelp.

:agreed:

Public ground, have heard many times a better caller pull a gobbler past a mediocre caller. Maybe ignore that mediocre caller might be a better term, never answering once on the way in.

Also I never Cutt LOUD!!! Because once you turn it loose, you can't take it back!!!
Progressive!!! More than car insurance.
I have a kind of bag thing that Preston Pittman gave me I think that he calls it "Flap and Scatch" or something like that. Sounds exactly like scratching in the leaves. I fold it up and put a rubber band around it when it is in my vest. Could possibly be the bestis "call" I have.

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I try to sound like a 2 pack a day, morally degenerate woman that drinks brown liquor.

Less is more, until more is more, but usually less is more. 

2 years ago I called in a bird that never answered my buddy's call, only mine.  The very next day, he called in a bird that never answered my call, only his.  These birds are crazy.

All other things being equal.... woodsman ship, turkey knowledge, terrain knowledge.....being a good caller, meaning striving to understand turkey vocabulary, their feelings and how to convey that message with any and all your particular calls, will always pay dividends over time.

When you get to the point that you don't even think about how to call or what call to make, you just react to the given situation, you've learned well.

That being said, sitting on a turkey rich farm with no hunting pressure trumps a lot of bad calling, lol!!!

 There's a lot in this post I can agree upon, especially the brown liquor.

Out of a 100 times good calling and calling technique will far surpass the success of bad calling and technique, guaranteed!

I really only have one thing to say, and it has already been said.

Don't show your hand all at one time, work into calling a turkey slow. As said: you can't take it back. I enjoy calling to turkeys, very much. But, I have killed a nice pile of turkeys that have heard no more than three soft yelps from me!

Quote from: bbcoach on February 28, 2024, 01:43:54 PM
Personally, I don't think any of us has the slightest idea of what GOOD calling is.  I'll explain.  We are human beings and are hunting a wild animal.  For the most part, we all have that Perfect Hen in OUR HEAD.  We try to immolate that hen.  We buy calls because of that hen.  We have calling contests, entered by humans and judged by humans and award what those judges think is the World Champion based on this bias.  To me, there is only one judge we should rely on and that is that Gobbler we are trying to bag.  It is evident, all of us has bias on this forum, because everyone of us agree to disagree of what we think the Best call is.  We ALL get beat, even World Champions, every day of the season.  I believe calling and woodsmanship play a very Big part in calling in that gobbler and it depends on what that gobbler has in his HEAD on any given day.  Carry a bunch of different calls every hunt and see which one will get in HIS HEAD.  You may be surprised.

Great Thread Greg.  I think we will see some great comments.

Yep.  It ain't bad if it works.

Quote from: Greg Massey on February 28, 2024, 12:11:02 PM
I do know some of you don't watch YouTube, but i do know you hunt public and private ground and have heard some pretty bad calling and some pretty good calling.

Agree with most everything already said before.  I would reinforce some of those comments about calling by seconding the quote above from Greg.  If you want to really see the relative importance...or lack thereof...of calling, just take the time to watch some of the lesser-known videos.  It is amazing what a gobbler that is looking for love (and wants to get killed) will come to in terms of calling. 

Conversely, I have also watched a number of videos made by "contest-level" callers that just didn't know when to shut up.  It does little good to impress yourself...or other hunters you are with...with great calling when the gobbler ain't buyin' it because you didn't know when to shut your yapper.   ;D :D

In summary, be the best you can be with a turkey call...but that is really only a part of the "success equation".  Granted, sometimes it is a bigger part than some of the other factors involved, but very often those other factors are at least as important, if not more-so.   :icon_thumright:

Quote from: g8rvet on February 28, 2024, 06:30:48 PM
I try to sound like a 2 pack a day, morally degenerate woman that drinks brown liquor.

My kind of lady!  :TooFunny:

A question I pose to hunters all the time is this...

When was the last time a gobbler hung up on a real hen ?  Probably never ...unless that gobbler allready had hen(s)

Why do gobblers hang up , or simply don't come to a hunters calling ...there is multiple reasons in too numerous scenarios but most common

1) loud walker in the woods spooked the birds before the sun even came up..or your dealing with paranoid schizophrenic gobblers

2) too much movement...etc...visable movement..or just plain visable ,

3) calling ...books can and have been made on this , I try to be as NATURAL  ...DO what the hens like to do ...play the role ...IMO most hunters rely on yelps as the bulk of their calling repertoire...over....and...over...

When was the last time you heard a hunter that sounded so naturally good you thought they were the real deal , many guys stylize their calling too much ..

there are some very good callers out there with good workmanship...those are the deadly ones

No advantage to poor calling in my book. Mimic what you hear from the real ones and you will do just fine in the woods!!

I can't think of a single turkey hunting scenario where.....all other things being equal.......accuracy in calling will NOT be superior/advantageous to mediocre or poor calling.

P.S.  MOST of the guys I know that say "Some of the worst calling I've ever heard came from a real hen" are either crappy callers trying to justify it and/or they never heard very many real hens.

Being good in all of the above definitely sets the odds in your favor. The importance of each of the skill sets  a  hunters posseses depends on the situation at hand. I'm definitely not relying on Woodsmanship if I need to pull a gobbler over a property line or across a river. Good calling in this situation trump's everything but Luck.

Would poor calling work in this situation? Possibly, but I'm putting my odds on the guy whose been around the block a few times. He has a better grasp on the situation and as EZ eluded too, the calling comes out as a reflex with out thinking.

I progressed fairly quickly in my ability with a diaphragm call. After a few years there was not many sounds I couldn't make on a mouth call. I killed some gobblers but it wasn't until I stopped calling at gobblers and started calling too them and with them did I start having more consistent success. What I mean by that is when I was younger I was calling to get a reaction. The calling was good but it was the standard yelp yelp yelp, cutt, cutt, cutt, and hope for a response. It was stuff I had practiced. It had a set cadence and a set tone.

As I grew as a hunter learned to start conversations with gobblers. There was a timing to my calling  or my not calling based on how the gobbler was acting. If my soft calling gets him to pop off most likely he's hot to trot and it won't take much to get him to come on over.

A  longbeard who's gobbling but not responding is gonna need some finesse. Wait for him to gobble and hit him right away. Let him know you heard him. Couple yelps is all you need. Be ready, if he cuts you off hit him a again. If he don't respond be ready when he gobbles again hit him right away with a little more excitement in your calling letting him know you hearing him once again. Stroke his ego a little, he likes it! After doing this a couple times let him gobble a couple times than be ready and cut his gobble again, wait a bit and test him with some uncoerced yelps. If he responds you've just started a conversation.

Calling to a group of long beards goes on the same order. I'll pick with closest or gobbling the most and I'll try to start a conversation with him all while being on the ready for any gobbler that responds to my attempts at starting the conversation so I can immediately respond when a satellite tells me he likes what he hears. I want him to know that I'm kinda impressed as well.

When I'm calling or responding to a gobbler I'm not thinking I need to do that 5 note yelp I been practicing, I'm think I need to sound content with maybe a little pleading and the sound comes out. It might be a 3 note, it might be 7 . I think contented and let it flow out in a smooth even cadence, don't matter how many notes it has.


If I need to add excitement to my calling the smooth flowing cadence starts to go out the window. My yelp strings will get broken up. The cadence will be there but it will be broken.There will be brief pauses with changes in pitch and tone and even possible changes in cadence's between pauses. I'll start to add cutts and the and cadence of the cutts will get choppy with changes in pitch and tone as well, as raise I my excitement level.

So I guess with that long winded blowhard of a reply what I'm trying to say, and some have already eluded to is, being a great caller is a matter of context. When I was younger I could have been considered a great caller by the turkey hunters sitting around camp, in the turkey woods not so much. Not because my calls didn't sound good but because I had no idea what I was saying or why I was saying it. I'm getting better at it and still learning most everytime out.

3 clucks could be considered great calling as much as the guy tearing down the woods. What's makes it great? The fact that the guy most likely has a decent grasp on the situation going on around him and calls accordingly to get the desired results.

bad calling is a disadvantage unless you are trying NOT to kill a turkey.

Good woody skills will kill more gobblers then calling skills imo ,
Saying that ,,, you don't want to suck at calling either . Knowing when and "what " to say to a gobbler is key .
   

There's one more thing in all this strategy talk that should be said. Learn to read a gobbler's mood. One of my two top hunting buddy's is really good at this. He will hear a bird and say, "that's a kill bird, let's get on him". Some birds will just gobble because it's what they do or they just want more hens to come to them. It's different when they turn and gobble right at you. Learn when it's time to go find another bird before you spend an entire hunt on a bird that's never coming.

We all have our strengths and weakness. I consider myself a good caller, but there are many out there who can humble me. I never think much about it. I recently saw the buddy I mentioned above in a sporting goods store talking to an associate we both know. He didn't know I was around the corner. He was looking at turkey calls and he told the associate, I wish I knew what call Dana uses, he sounds more like a turkey than anyone I ever heard. I was flabbergasted, as this guys is a turkey assassin. I think that's why we make a good team, our mixed skills mean a gobbler is in trouble. 

I have learned most of my turkey language from fall hunting and listening to flocks communicate in a social manner. Show me a good fall hunter and I'll show you a great spring hunter.

To keep on topic, yes good calling is an advantage, but great calling will not cover poor hunting skills.

A thread like this is the reason why I hang in there on this forum. The information above from turkey hunters around the country is priceless. The recent popularity in our sport has forced me to change my calling approach with gobblers for sure. Crowded woods, pressured Tom's and technology advances have definitely changed the game for all of us. Calling, (good or bad) IMO is more important now than it was when there was a gobbler every 200 yards in woods with very few hunters. We all know woodsman-ship/set-up is extremely important. With regard to calling, I changed my style using calls that most hunters don't use. Screaming away on box calls, loud frequent pot calling, day-time owl screeching are all things I avoid. Please realize that this is just my opinion here, I'm only sharing this because it changed the game for me. I use calls that require very little movement, if you can see the Tom, he will surely see you "Blink" at 60 yards. Once I see the approaching Tom, it's all down to the mouth call. Yes, you can use friction, Trumpets and other calls that require more movement when he's behind a tree, but I have found that the mouth call assures you he won't catch you with any call movement. Again, this is strictly what I have find  is working for me harvesting more gobblers now than I have in the past. I am by no means an expert caller, I am comfortable with a mouth call, I have been using them from day one. Hened  up Tom's can be tough, what I do here is engage the hen. Get her angry, basically concentrate on calling her in and her guy will follow. Multiple gobblers, I challenge them with the fighting Purr. Does not work all the time, but when it does it's exciting. Thanks for sharing your ideas/experiences here. I guarantee I take notice on all these great responses knowing full-well one of your tactics WILL help me harvest a stubborn Tom in the near future......

Quote from: Tom007 on February 29, 2024, 08:01:51 AM
A thread like this is the reason why I hang in there on this forum. The information above from turkey hunters around the country is priceless. The recent popularity in our sport has forced me to change my calling approach with gobblers for sure. Crowded woods, pressured Tom's and technology advances have definitely changed the game for all of us. Calling, (good or bad) IMO is more important now than it was when there was a gobbler every 200 yards in woods with very few hunters. We all know woodsman-ship/set-up is extremely important. With regard to calling, I changed my style using calls that most hunters don't use. Screaming away on box calls, loud frequent pot calling, day-time owl screeching are all things I avoid. Please realize that this is just my opinion here, I'm only sharing this because it changed the game for me. I use calls that require very little movement, if you can see the Tom, he will surely see you "Blink" at 60 yards. Once I see the approaching Tom, it's all down to the mouth call. Yes, you can use friction, Trumpets and other calls that require more movement when he's behind a tree, but I have found that the mouth call assures you he won't catch you with any call movement. Again, this is strictly what I have find  is working for me harvesting more gobblers now than I have in the past. I am by no means an expert caller, I am comfortable with a mouth call, I have been using them from day one. Hened  up Tom's can be tough, what I do here is engage the hen. Get her angry, basically concentrate on calling her in and her guy will follow. Multiple gobblers, I challenge them with the fighting Purr. Does not work all the time, but when it does it's exciting. Thanks for sharing your ideas/experiences here. I guarantee I take notice on all these great responses knowing full-well one of your tactics WILL help me harvest a stubborn Tom in the near future......

Dont overlook gobbler yelping. Its extremely deadly and not used by many. Point of fact, Ive never heard another hunter use gobbler yelping and its rare that it dosent work for me in the situations that I choose to use it.

Quote from: appalachianassassin on February 29, 2024, 08:30:08 AM

Quote from: Tom007 on February 29, 2024, 08:01:51 AM
Thanks for sharing your ideas/experiences here. I guarantee I take notice on all these great responses knowing full-well one of your tactics WILL help me harvest a stubborn Tom in the near future......

Dont overlook gobbler yelping. Its extremely deadly and not used by many. Point of fact, Ive never heard another hunter use gobbler yelping and its rare that it dosent work for me in the situations that I choose to use it.

Prime example of your point Tom007.  Although I have been chasing them for nearly sixty years now, I have rarely resorted to trying gobbler yelps as a spring hunting strategy for those tough gobblers that would not come to my calling.  Rest assured I will be trying it more often now...   :icon_thumright:

I've been reading all this wisdom and knowledge from each of you.  One thing I can absolutely say about this group of dedicated turkey hunters is each of us aren't SELFISH and are willing to share some of our secrets, so the rest of us can be MORE successful.  It is truly a PLEASURE to be associated with such a GREAT group!!!!  To each of you, Have a GREAT Spring Season!

Quote from: bbcoach on February 29, 2024, 09:17:42 AM
I've been reading all this wisdom and knowledge from each of you.  One thing I can absolutely say about this group of dedicated turkey hunters is each of us aren't SELFISH and are willing to share some of our secrets, so the rest of us can be MORE successful.  It is truly a PLEASURE to be associated with such a GREAT group!!!!  To each of you, Have a GREAT Spring Season!

Couldn't agree more, I have absolutely loved and learned a lot reading this thread!


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Quote from: GobbleNut on February 29, 2024, 08:55:46 AM

Quote from: appalachianassassin on February 29, 2024, 08:30:08 AM

Quote from: Tom007 on February 29, 2024, 08:01:51 AM
Thanks for sharing your ideas/experiences here. I guarantee I take notice on all these great responses knowing full-well one of your tactics WILL help me harvest a stubborn Tom in the near future......

Dont overlook gobbler yelping. Its extremely deadly and not used by many. Point of fact, Ive never heard another hunter use gobbler yelping and its rare that it dosent work for me in the situations that I choose to use it.

Prime example of your point Tom007.  Although I have been chasing them for nearly sixty years now, I have rarely resorted to trying gobbler yelps as a spring hunting strategy for those tough gobblers that would not come to my calling.  Rest assured I will be trying it more often now...   :icon_thumright:

I agree, lots of great posts about this topic... I do use gobbler yelps in the spring as part of my calling arsenal of calls i carry... I will put a plug in for Roger Parks, he is an expert in using gobbler yelps in the Spring and fall....  His Unicoi 2023 Seminar is worth watching on YouTube about using gobbler yelps... His gobbler yelp pot call is well worth the money .. IMO

I agree,Tom and I've learned a lot in the last couple of days reading this thread also... The wealth of knowledge in these threads is priceless .. Just look at the overall number of years we have all chased these gobblers and what we all have experienced and are willing to share information to help others be a better hunter.

Too many great quotes to copy, I know we all appreciate the expertise shared here! Be safe....

Quote from: Old Swamper on February 29, 2024, 10:13:52 AM
I have found that most really good callers, don't have much patience. I have used this to my advantage, several times over the years, by coming in and hunting behind them.

Another great point ... thanks for sharing ...

Quote from: Old Swamper on February 29, 2024, 10:13:52 AM
I have found that most really good callers, don't have much patience. I have used this to my advantage, several times over the years, by coming in and hunting behind them.

That's my biggest down fall. From 2000 until 2022 around here, we didn't have much competition or traveling hunters. My motto has always been, "if he ain't dead at my feet in 30 minutes, I'm finding one that will be". And it worked, a lot, for me up until 2022. The bird I killed in  2022 took some out of the box thinking to get on the public land I grew up hunting and a whole lot of persistence. Last year, I hunted like I always have and for the first time since I got the first one in 2006, I didn't get to see one flop. It was an eye opener for me, this year, there will be a whole different approach in my turkey hunting to clean up after the crowds and get my gobbler.


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Quote from: Old Swamper on February 29, 2024, 10:13:52 AM
I have found that most really good callers, don't have much patience. I have used this to my advantage, several times over the years, by coming in and hunting behind them.

I'm not sure I'd even classify myself as a "good caller" let alone a "really good caller".......  But, I'd put myself on the lower side of the mean on the patience bell curve.   ;D

Not because I can't be patient.  But because I don't wanna.  Patience doesn't fit my preferred means to an end.  I'm the guy who'd rather kill ONE bird that comes in grandstanding than to kill THREE that came in silent.

I have two distinct styles of hunting.  One way when I WANNA kill a gobbler.  Another way if I feel like I HAVE TO kill a gobbler (which ain't too often anymore). 

Quote from: Yoder409 on February 29, 2024, 11:33:40 AM

Quote from: Old Swamper on February 29, 2024, 10:13:52 AM
I have found that most really good callers, don't have much patience. I have used this to my advantage, several times over the years, by coming in and hunting behind them.

I'm not sure I'd even classify myself as a "good caller" let alone a "really good caller".......  But, I'd put myself on the lower side of the mean on the patience bell curve.   ;D

Not because I can't be patient.  But because I don't wanna.  Patience doesn't fit my preferred means to an end.  I'm the guy who'd rather kill ONE bird that comes in grandstanding than to kill THREE that came in silent.

I have two distinct styles of hunting.  One way when I WANNA kill a gobbler.  Another way if I feel like I HAVE TO kill a gobbler (which ain't too often anymore).

That's my preference too!. I'd rather hunt for 14 days in a row and get my tail whipped and have one come in hot and heavy than deer hunt one. I know it costs me birds but it's so hard for me to not hunt them the way I like. But with that being said, this season I'm going to be more patient and see where it gets me!.


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Quote from: ScottTaulbee on February 29, 2024, 11:39:11 AM

Quote from: Yoder409 on February 29, 2024, 11:33:40 AM

Quote from: Old Swamper on February 29, 2024, 10:13:52 AM
I have found that most really good callers, don't have much patience. I have used this to my advantage, several times over the years, by coming in and hunting behind them.

I'm not sure I'd even classify myself as a "good caller" let alone a "really good caller".......  But, I'd put myself on the lower side of the mean on the patience bell curve.   ;D

Not because I can't be patient.  But because I don't wanna.  Patience doesn't fit my preferred means to an end.  I'm the guy who'd rather kill ONE bird that comes in grandstanding than to kill THREE that came in silent.

I have two distinct styles of hunting.  One way when I WANNA kill a gobbler.  Another way if I feel like I HAVE TO kill a gobbler (which ain't too often anymore).

That's my preference too!. I'd rather hunt for 14 days in a row and get my tail whipped and have one come in hot and heavy than deer hunt one. I know it costs me birds but it's so hard for me to not hunt them the way I like. But with that being said, this season I'm going to be more patient and see where it gets me!.


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You guys would get mad hunting with me. I'll sit for hours if I know or hear a bird. One occasion I sat down at daybreak, finally closing the deal at 10:30. I know I'm nuts, that's ok......

This is by far the best thread I have read on here. Thanks to everyone.

I can honestly say bad calling will kill birds. I am a prime example. Lol  That said I know my kills would be doubled or tripled if I was a better caller and could totally figure out this conversation thing you guys speak of. Being the caller that I am I have bettered myself with woodsman ship. Like many have said knowing where he wants to be or wants to go makes all the difference. It will make you feel like you are a champion caller when you set up in his path and he responds so easily and makes his way to the gun.

Please keep the examples coming on how and when you might communicate with these crazy birds!

Quote from: jb1069 on February 29, 2024, 11:54:06 AM

I can honestly say bad calling will kill birds. I am a prime example. Lol 

..... I have bettered myself with woodsman ship. Like many have said knowing where he wants to be or wants to go makes all the difference. It will make you feel like you are a champion caller when you set up in his path and he responds so easily and makes his way to the gun.

Turkeys or geese............ A lousy caller can likely get them to come somewhere they wanted to be anyways.   A great caller likely can't get them to come where they DON'T wanna be.

There are more exceptions to some rules than others.  There are few exceptions to this one.

I don't think Denny Gulvas does what he does if he's a 'bad' caller.

Denny isn't just a good caller, he's a conversationalist.

Quote from: Tom007 on February 29, 2024, 11:46:49 AM

Quote from: ScottTaulbee on February 29, 2024, 11:39:11 AM

Quote from: Yoder409 on February 29, 2024, 11:33:40 AM

Quote from: Old Swamper on February 29, 2024, 10:13:52 AM
I have found that most really good callers, don't have much patience. I have used this to my advantage, several times over the years, by coming in and hunting behind them.

I'm not sure I'd even classify myself as a "good caller" let alone a "really good caller".......  But, I'd put myself on the lower side of the mean on the patience bell curve.   ;D

Not because I can't be patient.  But because I don't wanna.  Patience doesn't fit my preferred means to an end.  I'm the guy who'd rather kill ONE bird that comes in grandstanding than to kill THREE that came in silent.

I have two distinct styles of hunting.  One way when I WANNA kill a gobbler.  Another way if I feel like I HAVE TO kill a gobbler (which ain't too often anymore).

That's my preference too!. I'd rather hunt for 14 days in a row and get my tail whipped and have one come in hot and heavy than deer hunt one. I know it costs me birds but it's so hard for me to not hunt them the way I like. But with that being said, this season I'm going to be more patient and see where it gets me!.


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You guys would get mad hunting with me. I'll sit for hours if I know or hear a bird. One occasion I sat down at daybreak, finally closing the deal at 10:30. I know I'm nuts, that's ok......

Same here, if I know he ain't leaving, neither am I.  That is not deer hunting though.  That is knowing a gobbler is there, even if he is barely talking. Some of my proudest kills were birds that maybe gobbled 3-4 times.

Quote from: Yoder409 on February 29, 2024, 11:33:40 AM

I'd put myself on the lower side of the mean on the patience bell curve.   ;D
Not because I can't be patient.  But because I don't wanna.  Patience doesn't fit my preferred means to an end.  I'm the guy who'd rather kill ONE bird that comes in grandstanding than to kill THREE that came in silent.
I have two distinct styles of hunting.  One way when I WANNA kill a gobbler.  Another way if I feel like I HAVE TO kill a gobbler (which ain't too often anymore).

Fits me perfectly.  The first gobbler I killed calling him in back in the 1970's came in strutting and gobbling all the way.  My first thought at the time was..."THIS is what turkey hunting is all about".  My mind has never changed. 

I have said it before...and will say it again.  If he doesn't want to play the game that way, he can just stay in the woods as far as I am concerned.  For me, it has never been about KILLING a turkey,...it has always been about the way it is accomplished.  I will admit I have had to kill a few of them using the "other" methods,...but it just ain't the same. 

Quote from: jb1069 on February 29, 2024, 11:54:06 AM
This is by far the best thread I have read on here. Thanks to everyone.

I can honestly say bad calling will kill birds. I am a prime example. Lol  That said I know my kills would be doubled or tripled if I was a better caller and could totally figure out this conversation thing you guys speak of. Being the caller that I am I have bettered myself with woodsman ship. Like many have said knowing where he wants to be or wants to go makes all the difference. It will make you feel like you are a champion caller when you set up in his path and he responds so easily and makes his way to the gun.

Please keep the examples coming on how and when you might communicate with these crazy birds!

I'm by no means a great caller and there's a bunch of guys that would make me look like a fool, but I have been told by a few people that they thought I was a hen and a few more have told me I should get in the contests. I say that to not brag or chest thump but to give a background. I'll give an example of how to communicate with a gobbler.

You hear him on the roost, he greets the day with a gobble. You let a couple soft tree yelps and little pits to say "I just woke up, I'm over here". He immediately responds and you can tell it's not just a courtesy gobble. You stop calling, he hits the ground and gives a gobble with authority. He's trying to find you. You respond with some soft calling to try to be coy and he seems like he is losing interest. You respond with some loud "assembly" type yelps and a couple cutts with high emotion to check his temperature. He cuts you off, you cut him off and he's hot again. You stop calling, now it's been 10 or 15 minutes. Instead of yelping, or cutting, or something aggressive, you cluck to say "where are you" to him. He might gobble, he might cluck back, but now you're in a conversation and finding out where he is at the same time.

It's probably not the best example, I'm terrible at explaining anything. But I hope it gives you something to think about!.


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I don't think bad calling is an advantage, but I don't think good sounding calling matters as much as most of us think. I've also heard some hunters that don't sound good at all up close. But when they're calling 50 yards away they sound pretty good. People seem to give turkeys mystical powers in their heads. If he's answering your calling, I promise he doesn't think you are a hunter. He's not hanging up because he doesn't believe you are a real hen. He's hanging up because he likes where he is, or doesn't like where you are. Being as good of a caller is important. And I consider myself to be pretty good. But I tell people all the time my calling compared to theirs isn't going to make a noticeable difference in terms of birds called in. As long as they are saying the same thing I'm saying. Calling in turkeys is much more about knowing what to say than about how you sound saying it. Of course saying anything from the spot he wants to be is more important than anything else.


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Yoder summed it up perfectly in my opinion. Anyone can get a bird to come where he wants to be. So that's a huge piece to the puzzle. A great caller can get him to change and come somewhere else. That's the biggest advantage to being a good caller. But you can kill plenty of turkeys by making some turkey sounds from the right location. Don't be afraid to move around to find that location.


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Quote from: jb1069 on February 29, 2024, 11:54:06 AM
This is by far the best thread I have read on here. Thanks to everyone.

I can honestly say bad calling will kill birds. I am a prime example. Lol  That said I know my kills would be doubled or tripled if I was a better caller and could totally figure out this conversation thing you guys speak of. Being the caller that I am I have bettered myself with woodsman ship. Like many have said knowing where he wants to be or wants to go makes all the difference. It will make you feel like you are a champion caller when you set up in his path and he responds so easily and makes his way to the gun.

Please keep the examples coming on how and when you might communicate with these crazy birds!

My suggestion is to listen and watch as many videos of sounds you can find of hens and gobblers and listen to what they are saying... I do watch a lot of Youtube videos, for the reasons of listening to how the turkeys respond and body language.   

Spending time with gobblers / hens with listening is always a plus in the woods as to what they are saying to each other...  you will learn over time ... IMO

I personally never call turkey hunting / deer hunting, the reason why it is not deer season, it's turkey season. I hunt turkey to call them, not chase them through woods and cut them off etc... Now this is just my way of hunting them and by no means am i saying how I hunt them is right or wrong.. This is just my way of hunting them.  IMO .. My satisfaction is calling him to the gun and beating him at his own game... It's called patience's

Quote from: Greg Massey on February 29, 2024, 12:37:56 PM

Quote from: jb1069 on February 29, 2024, 11:54:06 AM
This is by far the best thread I have read on here. Thanks to everyone.

I can honestly say bad calling will kill birds. I am a prime example. Lol  That said I know my kills would be doubled or tripled if I was a better caller and could totally figure out this conversation thing you guys speak of. Being the caller that I am I have bettered myself with woodsman ship. Like many have said knowing where he wants to be or wants to go makes all the difference. It will make you feel like you are a champion caller when you set up in his path and he responds so easily and makes his way to the gun.

Please keep the examples coming on how and when you might communicate with these crazy birds!

My suggestion is to listen and watch as many videos of sounds you can find of hens and gobblers and listen to what they are saying... I do watch a lot of Youtube videos, for the reasons of listening to how the turkeys respond and body language.   

Spending time with gobblers / hens with listening is always a plus in the woods as to what they are saying to each other...  you will learn over time ... IMO

Fall hunting turkey gives you a lot of rapid experience in hearing live bird interactions as well.  Nephew and I were in on a flock and heard every sound a turkey makes except gobble and putt.  It was awesome.  I passed on the lead hen (legal where I was) because I knew there were a bunch of jakes with her and don't regret it, but that was one of my favorite days turkey hunting.

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 29, 2024, 12:23:54 PM

Quote from: Yoder409 on February 29, 2024, 11:33:40 AM

I'd put myself on the lower side of the mean on the patience bell curve.   ;D
Not because I can't be patient.  But because I don't wanna.  Patience doesn't fit my preferred means to an end.  I'm the guy who'd rather kill ONE bird that comes in grandstanding than to kill THREE that came in silent.
I have two distinct styles of hunting.  One way when I WANNA kill a gobbler.  Another way if I feel like I HAVE TO kill a gobbler (which ain't too often anymore).

Fits me perfectly.  The first gobbler I killed calling him in back in the 1070's came in strutting and gobbling all the way.  My first thought at the time was..."THIS is what turkey hunting is all about".  My mind has never changed. 

I have said it before...and will say it again.  If he doesn't want to play the game that way, he can just stay in the woods as far as I am concerned.  For me, it has never been about KILLING a turkey,...it has always been about the way it is accomplished.  I will admit I have had to kill a few of them using the "other" methods,...but it just ain't the same.

Amen, this is the way i feel and what i just said in my last post... Great post my friend ...

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 29, 2024, 12:23:54 PM

Fits me perfectly.  The first gobbler I killed calling him in back in the 1070's came in strutting and gobbling all the way.  My first thought at the time was..."THIS is what turkey hunting is all about".  My mind has never changed. 

I have said it before...and will say it again.  If he doesn't want to play the game that way, he can just stay in the woods as far as I am concerned.  For me, it has never been about KILLING a turkey,...it has always been about the way it is accomplished.

Me and you........... We'd get along JUST SWIMMINGLY in the turkey woods !!!

Yep !!!

:icon_thumright:

Quote from: Greg Massey on February 29, 2024, 12:49:18 PM
I personally never call turkey hunting / deer hunting, the reason why it is not deer season, it's turkey season. I hunt turkey to call them, not chase them through woods and cut them off etc... Now this is just my way of hunting them and by no means am i saying how I hunt them is right or wrong.. This is just my way of hunting them.  IMO .. My satisfaction is calling him to the gun and beating him at his own game... It's called patience's

I don't chase them, or cut them off. And I've never killed one by ambushing. I've never killed one that I didn't call to the gun. But I do move, and create the illusion of hens moving along. And use the terrain to better my position based on what he's doing or not doing. What I was referring to by deer hunting them is watching where a tom walks by a couple times over the course of a day or two and then sitting at that spot waiting on him. And I just don't have it in me to call to a gobbler at 8 am and sit there until 1pm hoping he gets lonely enough to come over. I'll find another bird that's more willing. That's just the way I enjoy it. I don't use decoys and hunt mountains in the hardwoods. That's just what trips my trigger!.


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I agree with the last few post. I want to interact with a gobbler and hear him respond to my call. A show off gobble his tail feathers loose two year old is a wonderful creature to encounter. That doesn't mean I won't tangle with old mr. contrary though. However, if he won't gobble I won't stay. I will stay with one for hours but he better be answering me. Add me to the impatient camp if that's what you want to call it. I wanna have fun, just plain killing grew old many years ago. I killed them about every way you can think of over the last 50 years, but my preferences have changed a lot.

As for listening to turkey talk. I live right in the woods with them. Many days I can set on my porch and drink my coffee while listening to the local flock chat it up. Some days they are even in the yard/field and I can watch. I am very lucky to have that at my back door. I sat and listened to a few hens and a couple gobblers getting together just a few days ago. You learn a lot like that.

The guys who believe in patience are some of my favorites.

Quote from: ScottTaulbee on February 29, 2024, 12:59:11 PM

Quote from: Greg Massey on February 29, 2024, 12:49:18 PM
I personally never call turkey hunting / deer hunting, the reason why it is not deer season, it's turkey season. I hunt turkey to call them, not chase them through woods and cut them off etc... Now this is just my way of hunting them and by no means am i saying how I hunt them is right or wrong.. This is just my way of hunting them.  IMO .. My satisfaction is calling him to the gun and beating him at his own game... It's called patience's

I don't chase them, or cut them off. And I've never killed one by ambushing. I've never killed one that I didn't call to the gun. But I do move, and create the illusion of hens moving along. And use the terrain to better my position based on what he's doing or not doing. What I was referring to by deer hunting them is watching where a tom walks by a couple times over the course of a day or two and then sitting at that spot waiting on him. And I just don't have it in me to call to a gobbler at 8 am and sit there until 1pm hoping he gets lonely enough to come over. I'll find another bird that's more willing. That's just the way I enjoy it. I don't use decoys and hunt mountains in the hardwoods. That's just what trips my trigger!.


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Another great point and post,,, It's all about what you expect and what your wanting in return from hunting them.. Satisfaction / fullfillment / accomplishments...

Quote from: Happy on February 29, 2024, 01:04:41 PM
The guys who believe in patience are some of my favorites.

I guess we just can't be friends.............

:TooFunny: :TooFunny:

Maybe.. maybe not. I ain't gonna give any more context than that. I ain't gonna sit for hours twiddling my thumbs on a gobbler, though. I will say this: Not so long ago, I sat back and watched a guy "patience" his way after a particular gobbler every day for two weeks. He finally skipped a day, and that gobbler disappeared pretty quickly and hasn't been seen or heard since.

Not so long ago, I "patienced" a gobbler into a truck ride.  But there are different ways to be patient.  Sitting at one spot and calling?  Nah, effective maybe but boring.  But if I know the bird is there and he is answering me, why should I move?  He'll be around there directly.  It will just be on his time and not mine. 

An old man I knew that gave me lots of good advice once said to me "If he answers you on the roost, sit tight, he will be back at some point to check on you".  I believe him and know he killed a pile of birds, but that is TOO patient for me as well. 

I won't bushwhack or crawl on one, but I like to eat turkey and if he plays the game, even if it is not with 100 gobbles, I am gonna do my part. 

I appreciate what you guys are saying, I play by my own set of rules as well.  If it is not fun, why do it?  Let me ask y'all this (there is no wrong answer, just curious).   You are working a vocal bird and another slips in while calling without a peep.  It is a mature gobbler (that has maybe had his arse whooped) and in range and you KNOW it is not the bird you were working.  Do you shoot?

Quote from: g8rvet on February 29, 2024, 02:02:47 PM
Not so long ago, I "patienced" a gobbler into a truck ride.  But there are different ways to be patient.  Sitting at one spot and calling?  Nah, effective maybe but boring.  But if I know the bird is there and he is answering me, why should I move?  He'll be around there directly.  It will just be on his time and not mine. 

An old man I knew that gave me lots of good advice once said to me "If he answers you on the roost, sit tight, he will be back at some point to check on you".  I believe him and know he killed a pile of birds, but that is TOO patient for me as well. 

I won't bushwhack or crawl on one, but I like to eat turkey and if he plays the game, even if it is not with 100 gobbles, I am gonna do my part. 

I appreciate what you guys are saying, I play by my own set of rules as well.  If it is not fun, why do it?  Let me ask y'all this (there is no wrong answer, just curious).   You are working a vocal bird and another slips in while calling without a peep.  It is a mature gobbler (that has maybe had his arse whooped) and in range and you KNOW it is not the bird you were working.  Do you shoot?

I agree, if he's answering me, I can't make myself leave him. But if he goes quiet for a spell, say 30 or 40 minutes and hasn't shown up and isn't responding. He ain't gonna ride in my truck that day. I also agree with if it's not fun, why do it?. This year, I'm going to try to take one with my long bow. I'll have to execute a lot more patience than if I had my 835 and I'm fine with that going in to it.

As far as your scenario, yes, I'll shoot that rascal every time. He was still called in, I may not have known about him but I'd consider that a bonus while trying to work the other.


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I would like to think that every bird I have killed has been the one I was working, but I know that's probably not the case..... and I am totally fine with that. I figure those are just a gift and due karma from all of the ones that have aggravated the hell out of me in the past. I will take that slip-in satellite bird any day of the week!

Let me ask y'all this (there is no wrong answer, just curious).   You are working a vocal bird and another slips in while calling without a peep.  It is a mature gobbler (that has maybe had his arse whooped) and in range and you KNOW it is not the bird you were working.  Do you shoot?

That really depends on whether it's gotten personal with the targeted gobbler. In all honesty, I can't say i have ever had one sneak in completely silent. I have always had a vocal indication before they were in view. Typically, I get a gobble if they feel they are far enough away to escape the woopin'. If they are in tight, its drumming or soft clucks. We aren't exactly covered up in turkeys in my neck of the woods, though.

A bird in hand, beats 2 in the bushes!!!
I know that I have had them sneak in.  Just like I have had hens that I never heard, walk between me and a Longbeard that WAS coming and walk off with HIM. It was a short hunt that morning, but one of those I will never forget.

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I will shoot him, and not even hesitate. I've already had all the fun with the one answering. I learned a long time ago not to pass on a gift bird, the earned bird may be a long time coming.

If i have one that's gobbling and coming from a distance and i have another one slipping in silent and confirm he's a long beard I will take advantage of the opportunity and take the shot. The bird that was gobbling in the process before i took the shot on the silent bird anything could possibly happen. He could spook or lose interest or other hens could come into the picture and talk him in another direction.  I feel i have accomplished my goal.   That gobbling bird lives for another day .
It takes calling regardless to gain the edge on either one ...IMO

"A Gobbling Bird is a killable bird"

Quote from: Tom007 on February 29, 2024, 05:30:32 PM
"A Gobbling Bird is a killable bird"

I agree if he doesn't get spooked in the process of closing the distance.

It's more of a feel for me. I start light and let his mood dictate my calling. You gotta know when to shut up more than anything and when to give just a little more and that'll come with time/experience . I grew up hunting turkeys in the fall when they are vocal and my first kill was a hen. I also deer hunt a lot and turkey sounds in the woods are a constant. So hearing the little quirks and practicing them can give a gobbler a little something different. All that said..... some turkeys have a day where they want to die. And some days they won't budge.  And that's what makes it magic

To heck with YouTubers

You do this long enough you just learn or take up fishing. I really can't explain it. Kinda like being right handed.  You learn and subconsciously adapt.  At some point the hunt becomes as much about the psychology as the physical.  I can go on for hours because I've learned this the hard way, the only mentor was my Dad and he learned from trial and error back in the 80s.  Public land taught me that I had to be better than 90% of the other hunters and the edge was three fold in calling.  Realism in tone and cadence, setup...be where a hen should be..., and learning when to say cluck, yelp, pur, cut, or whatever needs to be said.  Like I already stated cadence is imho more important than tone.  I will back this up by saying after hearing a lot of callers over blow the most raspy mouth calls, I believe a lot of turkeys are killed by guys who think they are using hen yelps but the turkey thought it was Jake yelps. 

 Man, I am struggling to reply to this. Work has derailed me twice in mid stride.

Patience means different things to different people at different times. That's alot, I know.

It depends so much on your huntable population, on your available ground to hunt.

If you have ten acres to hunt with one turkey on it, you should slow down and be easy. If you have a thousand acres with 15 gobblers on it you do not have to show the same patience. Find a receptive turkey.

Now. I am talking two different times of patience in a hunt. Finding a turkey and working a turkey. Not the same!

You have found a receptive turkey. Work the turkey the way he wants to be talked too. If he is responsive to soft yelps do no more. Only advance your calling when step one doesn't work, soft yelps, step one.

When I was young, I would start out with a fly down cackle. Trust me, I haven't used a cackle unless I was in a deep hard core throw down with a hen for the last 20 years and usually it's only because I was so engaged it just rolled off my tongue or out of my pot call because I was so involved. I have killed several turkeys starting out this way when I was young. I have also hung several on the roost, as I refer to it as.

Slowing your calling down, understanding your available habitat and population is part of patience. The best teacher of this for me has been a 260 acre urban property I have to hunt. Some will think 260 acres is big. To me, it's a 10 minute walk and I am on to the next 1K acres. But not this piece, it's surrounded by private that can't be accessed.

If you blow through this property in 10 minutes you'll kill a turkey every couple days. If you slide through there gently youll kill one every day. Or two a day if you have a partner.

There's is more to the word when it comes to hunting turkey. If I have the land available, I will not spend two days on A turkey, I will move. I have learned many years ago to find a receptive turkey. A week or two the turkey that was not receptive may be, check back if possible, but give him time.

These guys that think they killed the impossible turkey...that's their ego. Their all killable, if your their when they are receptive.
But, they will never be receptive to YOU if you have pounded that one turkey all season long!

Sam, did you mean left handed?

I am left handed, I have adapted, I can go either way. LOL.

Quote from: WV Flopper on February 29, 2024, 11:35:03 PM
Sam, did you mean left handed?

I am left handed, I have adapted, I can go either way. LOL.

I have left handed people in my life.  They are definitely different and I proceed with caution.

A lot of respected turkey hunters I talked to have said cadence is more important then the sound of calling. So who decides what is bad or good calling? The turkey.

In south Florida more Osceola come in silent then not from what I've seen. I'd pass on a lot of birds if I don't shoot ones that come in silent. Especially on public.

On public I hunt (non-quota) there is no patience. If you get a response you'd better close the distance. Someone will get between you and the turkey for sure. And there is no coming back for second chance he'll be pushed around for sure.

I called in a hen once with two Tom's following. I harvested one of the Tom's. Seems a lot of you would have passed on the shot?

I would rather sound like a turkey than not.  A good caller can always call poorly if they want to. A bad caller cannot call well when they want to. I have not read or heard any example of an excellent caller    consciously deciding to call poorly to bring in a bird. Given the choice, I want you all, and them all, to think I am a real turkey.  If I am going to be ignored, I want to  be ignored for other reasons.

Great posts here that show different thoughts and styles regarding calling, patience, and when to move on. As many above have said, if a bird gobbles but does not cooperate, they move on. A lot here depends on how much time a person gets to hunt during the season. When I was working, I only took off about 4 days to hunt during the week total each season. I did hunt Weekends when the seasons allowed it. I do sit on a Tom if he gobbles back, like I said in previous posts I have sat for hours to finally close the deal. When I was working, my patience level was indeed different due to my time constraints afield. I would move on faster than I do now that I am retired. I now spend 25-30 days solid each season in as many as 3 states. In my hunting areas, the population of birds in the last five years has definitely decreased. This seems to be a trend occurring all around the country. When there was more birds, I myself would not take hours to sit on a stubborn gobbler. I would move on to a receptive Tom. So now with a shortage of birds and more time in the field, I will be more patient and sit on a gobbling bird knowing my chance with him is better odds than striking a new one by moving on. This is just my style I use now in my areas, I had to adapt to smaller populations. No one likes to Run&Gun more than me, and yes there are many times each year that I'll walk 6-7 miles from daybreak till noon each day when the Tom's get quiet. I will say, I appreciate all the responses here, I am learning a lot of new things to try on my future hunts......

Gooserbat, I agree on all your points. Pretty good perspective for a young pup, LOL

Tom007, You are right about less birds bring more patience. Way way back in the early 70s you most likely would only hear one maybe two gobbling birds. Once you found an active bird you stayed on him all day and everyday (which was a 3 day season), because there were no options. The year I killed my first there were 48 gobblers killed in the whole state, that's one for every 1 1/2 counties. I think we all have forgotten how good a job our wildlife agencies have actually done restoring this bird.

Quote from: eggshell on March 01, 2024, 07:25:26 AM
Gooserbat, I agree on all your points. Pretty good perspective for a young pup, LOL

Tom007, You are right about less birds bring more patience. Way way back in the early 70s you most likely would only hear one maybe two gobbling birds. Once you found an active bird you stayed on him all day and everyday (which was a 3 day season), because there were no options. The year I killed my first there were 48 gobblers killed in the whole state, that's one for every 1 1/2 counties. I think we all have forgotten how good a job our wildlife agencies have actually done restoring this bird.

Agreed, adaptation moving forward in the sport we all love is and probably will be the most important tactic in everyone's turkey hunting future......

I was on a gobbler that roosted on neighboring property two years ago that had enough hens to keep him occupied and throwing courtesy gobbles often enough to help me figure where he was going.  Sadly, he got on a different property before I could get ahead of him that day.  I went after him a few days later and he hit a couple of the same spots.  He was an old bird that definitely knew the game and was steadfastly waiting on the hen to come to him.  I started at a spot he hung for a while the last time, yet he wouldn't come.  I eased off the calling and went the next area he liked to strut.  You guessed it, he went to where I'd just left and gobbled for the hen for a long time.  We kept on with the chess match until it dawned on me that he'd probably heard so much human calling that I ought to just cluck quietly, scratch leaves, and put the calls up.  Again, he went to where I'd left, but was obviously still interested.  I went up on a hardwood flat across the creek and he wouldn't budge for 50 minutes.  I moved a little closer to the creek and scratched leaves only just to give him sounds from a different spot.  Within 2 minutes he was behind the tree I was sitting against trying to drum up the hen he'd heard.  He had me handcuffed and walked straight off behind me to the next property, where he got shot by a guy in a tent blind with decoys.  I checked my watch and from the time I got the first gobble back until the time he died was 7 hours. It was a great hunt with the worst kind of ending.

My calling was good enough to keep him interested, yet he wouldn't commit until I dialed it down to making few calls and natural sounds.  I'm sure he was leery because he could probably tell human calling from the real deal. Scratching is also a form of calling and may be one of the most effective tools to use in our favor.

about 25 years ago, I had an awful sounding live hen working the same gobbler I was on at a tried and true strut zone.  I was convinced it was a trespasser trying to move in on the same gobbler I was pursuing.   It wasn't until I dropped the hammer on that gobbler and the hen flew up over from behind me that I realized it was not a human.  She sounded bad, but she helped pull him where I was & he already wanted to go.

I considered Shannon's point about a gobbler ever hanging up on a live hen.  Every time I think of interactions with gobblers where "new" hens (one he's not already following) come around, the hens usually go straight to the gobbler.  Most of the hens don't play as hard to get as we hunters do.  I have seen where gobblers stay at a strut zone and wait for the hen to arrive versus go towards them, like we're counting on.

Jim

I don't think calling is overrated. Patience is the number one tool for killing turkeys. All tools rank differently on different days and different birds. Sometimes I blow the reeds out of a mouth call if he wants me too. Sometimes I have to get in front of him and wait him out. And sometimes I'm not so patient and I do some crawling to cut the distance. Patience is number one but sometimes it just ain't feesable (like when you gotta get to work, you're hungry, or you're on your neighbors place)

Living with turkeys can really help understand why they say what and when. Having our calling sound realistic can only be a plus. Practice, Practice, practice. 

Here's your picture resized if you want to delete the big one.

ferocious calls Pic.

Thank you. Forgot to resize.

Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 28, 2024, 01:45:59 PM
Mediocre calling and good woodsmanship trumps awesome calling and poor woodsmanship when it comes to killing turkey.

It is more important to understand WHAT you are saying and WHEN to say it than it is to just sound like a world champion.

As far as the woodsmanship part, a lot of that is the set up like has previously been mentioned. And moving through the woods undetected, understand turkey patterns and behavior, etc.

This 100%


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Quote from: WV Flopper on February 29, 2024, 11:35:03 PM
Sam, did you mean left handed?

I am left handed, I have adapted, I can go either way. LOL.

I am left handed too! I always said that left handed folks need to be on disability!!!! We live in a right handed world!!! The rest of the world is backwards!!!
We ain't wrong, we just different! In the words of Waylon!

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

 The girl and I are both left handed. Our son...right handed? We debated tying his right hand behind his back for the first few years.

Typical, I lost that fight. Now the boy is cursed by being "normal". Whatever.

My grandad is a lefty. For years, all of his guns were pumps, semi's, and lever actions. He finally forked over the money for a beautiful Remington 700bdl in .270. He sighted it in and killed four deer with it, then hung it up. Hasn't hunted it since. He told me that he knew he would never miss with that gun, and it just didn't didn't seem fair.

My son is left handed but right eye dominant.. He refuses to hold the shotgun on his right shoulder. Sitting next to him hunting and watching him pull the trigger is pushing me towards finding therapist

 I understand his thoughts on fare game hunting. I too feel sorry for game occasionally with my shooting abilities.

Now, dang it, good calling is better than bad calling period! Patience is better than no patience! Back to the topic at hand!!!

I will counter that if a fellow is a good caller, understands turkey behavior, and is a pretty good woodsman, he ain't gonna need a whole lot of patience. Now, the exception to that is on those small properties that you mentioned earlier. It is a good point, and I agree they need to be hunted carefully or you risk ruining them. I hunt with a fellow on one of those properties as well, and I don't think I have stayed in one spot for more than an hour, and our success rate is unreal. When one gobbles on this chunk, I almost feel bad for him. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

 Happy, I had a half way good response in the makings half typed up and hit the back button one to many times.

I will summerize: I have had F ed up a turkey hunt in every way you could dream of with the exception of shooting myself in the foot!

When plenty of turkeys abound you can move on to the next. When you have one turkey available you need to make it happen. Patience and good calling will prevail.

Patience, IMO, doesn't mean setting in one spot all day. There are hundreds of examples of patience. Hundreds easily.

Knowing the land? Leave the house, drive a thousand miles and kill a turkey. Just how much of the land do you think that person knows?

 Happy, I had a half way good response in the makings half typed up and hit the back button one to many times.
Been there sir..
It may be a matter of our interpretation of the word patience. I ain't out to change anyone's mind, though. I hope you have a great spring, filled with gobbling turkeys and lots of memories

So many good, accurate comments made on this topic.  Well done, OG Team!
My summation after reading it all while nodding my head in agreement, is that much of the need for calling skill, patience, and the like all come down to where we are hunting and the specific conditions that exist there.  The well-worn cliche of "one size fits all" most certainly does not apply in turkey hunting.   :icon_thumright:

Now, I've gotta go.  I've got a 20 acre patch that I gotta "run 'n gun" on this morning.  ...Figure it will take me about five minutes to run the one gobbler off.  Once I do that, I am going to hit the 20,000-acre plot that has ten gobblers on it and plop my rear in down in the first spot I like and wait for the nearest gobbler (which, unfortunately, happens to be five miles away) to show up....sometime next month.   ;D

Never under estimate a good homemade blind in a strategic location in trying to call gobblers, let's not forget gobblers don't always gobble. So as the morning progresses and your running all over the place every 30 minutes and spooking birds off that 100 - 2000 ac because you don't have the time for patience, you might say to yourself am i doing this right. Sometimes moving slow and covering less ground could be a big advantage. So is there a right way or wrong way? I just like to have all the options on the table for myself.. 

What amazes me. sometimes you start talking blinds and these newer generation THINK POP-UP blinds... No No... Old school blinds the ones you make out of the surrounding brush, leaves, pine needles and whatever else you want to use. That's a blind.  Sure a Pop UP blind is a lot easier. I've used both and will always have a blind located in what i feel is a great location on the farm / land.  My main purpose for setting up that blind is out of necessity in those foul weather days. These blinds give me options to hunt on these type days.

Now trying to use a POP-UP on public is pretty much useless but it's not to say you can use some natural vegetation and construct you a homemade ground blind and as the morning progress make you way to that area and setup and do some blind calling. It's all about being stealth and using everything to your advantage as the morning becomes mid-day and the majority of the other hunters are at the bed and breakfast bar. Turkey season is only so long, so have patience and pack a lunch.

Left hand / right hand ... I'm AMBIDEXTROUS myself ... LOL             Lots of great information has been shared in these posts. Remember we are also trying to help the newbies to turkey hunting also... IMO

Nah it's not an advantage.
Most are using the visual aids. Have to remember calling is less important when you have visual aids/crutches out there. 

Calling is important.  It is just not as important as some folks think it is...   :icon_thumright: :)

Quote from: Greg Massey on March 02, 2024, 09:31:53 AM
Never under estimate a good homemade blind in a strategic location in trying to call gobblers, let's not forget gobblers don't always gobble. So as the morning progresses and your running all over the place every 30 minutes and spooking birds off that 100 - 2000 ac because you don't have the time for patience, you might say to yourself am i doing this right. Sometimes moving slow and covering less ground could be a big advantage. So is there a right way or wrong way? I just like to have all the options on the table for myself.. 

What amazes me. sometimes you start talking blinds and these newer generation THINK POP-UP blinds... No No... Old school blinds the ones you make out of the surrounding brush, leaves, pine needles and whatever else you want to use. That's a blind.  Sure a Pop UP blind is a lot easier. I've used both and will always have a blind located in what i feel is a great location on the farm / land.  My main purpose for setting up that blind is out of necessity in those foul weather days. These blinds give me options to hunt on these type days.

Now trying to use a POP-UP on public is pretty much useless but it's not to say you can use some natural vegetation and construct you a homemade ground blind and as the morning progress make you way to that area and setup and do some blind calling. It's all about being stealth and using everything to your advantage as the morning becomes mid-day and the majority of the other hunters are at the bed and breakfast bar. Turkey season is only so long, so have patience and pack a lunch.

Left hand / right hand ... I'm AMBIDEXTROUS myself ... LOL             Lots of great information has been shared in these posts. Remember we are also trying to help the newbies to turkey hunting also... IMO

Dead on here with the natural blinds. I probably have a dozen or so natural set-ups. I check them all every year. These are proven gobbler harvesting spots. They are "naturally" well hidden, all have a large tree back-drop, and a flat sitting area (some have flat flagstone type rocks). I'll freshen them up with white pine branches, deadfall branches, with some leaves mixed in. These are real nice spots after I cover some ground, I'll return to one of these to sit the last hour or so till quitting time. They all get action at one time or another....

My grandpa once said..turkeys are just like people. Some are really smart. Some are really dumb. I think it depends on the turkeys mood. Like others have said, I've heard some real hens making bad sounding calls. I'm not a diaphragm caller, cause I suck at it. But I have a few friends who suck at it and kill birds as well lol.

I gauge the turkey. If he's hot, I hit him hard up to a point. If he's shy, I play shy and try to get him fired up at some point.

Regardless of call level...I love this game as we all do!

Quote from: deathfoot on March 06, 2024, 05:21:12 PM
My grandpa once said..turkeys are just like people. Some are really smart. Some are really dumb. I think it depends on the turkeys mood. Like others have said, I've heard some real hens making bad sounding calls. I'm not a diaphragm caller, cause I suck at it. But I have a few friends who suck at it and kill birds as well lol.

Yup.  Anybody who has hunted with many other hunters...especially the casual turkey hunter types and has let them do some calling...has most likely seen turkeys come to calling that sounded terrible (and that is being nice).  As one who has witnessed it many times, I have learned that turkeys are gonna respond to what THEY like,...not necessarily what WE think they are supposed to like. 

Nevertheless, it is a good idea to try to sound at least somewhat like a turkey when calling to them.   ;D

I feel turkeys / turkey responding to someone calling is different in how they do this depending on if there are more than one gobbler. If it's 2 or more gobblers together they are going to respond to hens yelping differently and will be more vocal than say 1 gobbler.  Same with hens talking / yelping 2 or more together are going to respond more than that leery 1 hen.  The more together are very likely to be less cautious and easier to call than that one gobbler who is a loner. IMO


Less or more calling is all about the mood you are receiving back for that gobbler.  In some cases just clucking and purring is all that's needed. But he may need that aggressive cutting and exciting hen yelping, in bringing him to you... I just like the ones that are slow and steady...

If bad calling brings in a bird does it instantly become good calling? If a bird doesn't come to good calling is it now bad calling?

Quote from: jb1069 on March 08, 2024, 10:31:24 AM
If bad calling brings in a bird does it instantly become good calling? If a bird doesn't come to good calling is it now bad calling?

It's all about his mood good / bad...  A good cadence is always better in my opinion with what your trying to say ...