which barrel do you prefer for first shot if both are running same tube constriction?
which barrel do you prefer for longer range shot if both are running different tube constriction?
thanks,phil
Definitely depends on POI. If all is good I shoot bottom barrel 1st.
If different chokes I personally would shoot top barrel for up close and bottom for distance.
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It's most common to run the open choke in bottom barrel and top barrel gets the tighter choke. I've never even heard of anyone doing different til Tom007 said so he does that a few years ago but most common is the way I stated
Quote from: Bowguy on February 16, 2024, 05:24:00 AM
It's most common to run the open choke in bottom barrel and top barrel gets the tighter choke. I've never even heard of anyone doing different til Tom007 said so he does that a few years ago but most common is the way I stated
I have written this many times on these forums, but I disagree completely. I have been shooting O/Us exclusively for turkeys since 2009 and have been shooting O/Us a lot longer than that. I used to shoot a lot of skeet and sporting clays. Everyone, and I mean everyone, that shoots clay targets with an O/U shoots the bottom barrel first. Why? Recoil. Due to the geometry of O/Us, recoil from the bottom barrel is more straight back into the shoulder and causes less muzzle rise compared to the top barrel. Shooting the bottom barrel first allows you to get back on target faster for the second shot of doubles.
Most O/Us will shoot the bottom barrel to a lower POI compared to the top barrel. That tendency increases with payload weight (due to more recoil). I load a heavier payload of TSS for the "tight" lower barrel of my guns and a lighter payload of TSS for the "open" top barrel. Shooting the heavier payload in the lower barrel minimizes the difference in POIs between the two barrels.
If you shoot the same shell through the same choke in both barrels, the difference in POIs is what it is, but you will still be enduring greater felt recoil and cheek slap than necessary if you shoot the top barrel first, given that you will normally only shoot once at a turkey.
I set up my guns with a red dot that centers the "tight" lower barrel and count on increased spread and a little Ky windage to compensate for the upper "open" barrel.
Quote from: Bowguy on February 16, 2024, 05:24:00 AM
It's most common to run the open choke in bottom barrel and top barrel gets the tighter choke. I've never even heard of anyone doing different til Tom007 said so he does that a few years ago but most common is the way I stated
You are correct Mike, I put the tight choke in the bottom of my Browning Cynergy Turkey. I got lucky with mine, the POI between the barrels is minimal, less than one inch. I set up my Red Dot for the lower barrel. My Browning barrels are angled tight, the chokes are super close (sometimes scraping) when I screw them in. That's probably how they get a Closer POI between both barrels. Here's my results:
X2 BandedSpur is correct IMO... it's common sense to align your bottom long-distance barrel with your shoulder, more steadily...
thanks for response
Good luck...
Quote from: BandedSpur on February 16, 2024, 07:06:42 AM
Quote from: Bowguy on February 16, 2024, 05:24:00 AM
It's most common to run the open choke in bottom barrel and top barrel gets the tighter choke. I've never even heard of anyone doing different til Tom007 said so he does that a few years ago but most common is the way I stated
I have written this many times on these forums, but I disagree completely. I have been shooting O/Us exclusively for turkeys since 2009 and have been shooting O/Us a lot longer than that. I used to shoot a lot of skeet and sporting clays. Everyone, and I mean everyone, that shoots clay targets with an O/U shoots the bottom barrel first. Why? Recoil. Due to the geometry of O/Us, recoil from the bottom barrel is more straight back into the shoulder and causes less muzzle rise compared to the top barrel. Shooting the bottom barrel first allows you to get back on target faster for the second shot of doubles.
Most O/Us will shoot the bottom barrel to a lower POI compared to the top barrel. That tendency increases with payload weight (due to more recoil). I load a heavier payload of TSS for the "tight" lower barrel of my guns and a lighter payload of TSS for the "open" top barrel. Shooting the heavier payload in the lower barrel minimizes the difference in POIs between the two barrels.
If you shoot the same shell through the same choke in both barrels, the difference in POIs is what it is, but you will still be enduring greater felt recoil and cheek slap than necessary if you shoot the top barrel first, given that you will normally only shoot once at a turkey.
I set up my guns with a red dot that centers the "tight" lower barrel and count on increased spread and a little Ky windage to compensate for the upper "open" barrel.
Well I agree but disagree w some of your points. I've shot o/u since prob the 90s and do so except turkey guns exclusively as well as shot a minimum 400 rounds a week up to 1500 for 15 years. Sporting clays, trap and minimally skeet. But that's not the point. That's only to show you're not talking to someone doesn't know what they don't know. .
The bottom barrel is shot first, the second shot is commonly longer needing tighter chokes. Of course it has to do with recoil impulse. Most times you put the more open choke in the bottom barrel as that is your first shot. If you surmise you'd be shooting the tighter barrel first as some dove guys like to being first shot is supposedly coming at you than yes. Choke that barrel tighter.
I'd still keep my open barrel lower. In turkey hunting how many shots ever do you get over 25 yards? Even 30 yards is not turkey choke range in best case scenario. Play the odds and keep the more open barrel under if that's your scenario.
If you'd assume you'd more often need longer range shots than choke tighter under but realize also we're prob talking selectors and not double triggers. If you need to switch it'd be less obvious making that change farther as opposed to closer
BUT We ain't shooting sporting clays. Shooting sporting clays I shoot open choke in bottom barrel, as you know 1st shot is usually close then top barrel with tighter choke for second longer shot. Skeet or Improved Cylinder in bottom the a light modified or improved modified in the top.
But like I said we're shooting turkeys NOT clays.
An open mind is a good thing.
Have a good one and May God bless y'all, Bo
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Quote from: runngun on February 17, 2024, 05:58:44 PM
BUT We ain't shooting sporting clays. Shooting sporting clays I shoot open choke in bottom barrel, as you know 1st shot is usually close then top barrel with tighter choke for second longer shot. Skeet or Improved Cylinder in bottom the a light modified or improved modified in the top.
But like I said we're shooting turkeys NOT clays.
An open mind is a good thing.
Have a good one and May God bless y'all, Bo
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Brother as I said. Play the odds. We're all in agreement bottom barrel goes first. If you think turkey choke barrel is gonna be most used place it there. I'll stand by my thoughts, more shots, especially by the experienced guys on here, than not, are under 25 yards and that's not turkey choke range. As stated hedge bets as you see fit
I agree with Bowguy about setting up an O/U for upland bird hunting. For grouse, quail, pheasants, etc. that are normally shot going away, I always set my gun up firing the lower barrel first with the more open choke, followed by the upper barrel running a tighter choke.
For turkeys, my 1.25 oz loads are not objectionable recoil wise when fired in the upper (open) barrel, the 1&5/8 oz loads are, so I run them in the lower barrel. I keep the selector set to fire the upper barrel in case a turkey pops up close by. Then if he is further, I have time to select the lower long range barrel. YMMV.
Put me in the first shot bottom barrel camp. I put the tighter choke in the top barrel and more open in bottom on my cynergy ultimate turkey. Old habits die hard for me. In double trigger, and single non-selective triggers with fixed chokes, bottom was first and more open. Unless you have a European gun for driven game birds. It just works better for my thought process personally. If a turkey is close i can make a quick move to shoot with some leeway. And, as its running away getting further out i can be quicker with the top, tighter choke to miss it the second time. I can see however, the point of wanting a more open choke for the second shot for a running turkey for more leeway.
Like most things stick with whatever works for you.
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Not hijacking the thread... However, Im new to the O/U turkey game and I'm all over this thread.. great info.
I 'm currently running a .585 in the bottom with 2-3/4 #7 HW (Steven's)
Top .560 with 3" #7 HW..
@ 30 my POI is close. My question for the sharpies is.. Would you like to see this set up a little more open in the bottom barrel?
All info is always greatly appreciated.
Thank you all
Johnny
They had a sexy new Mossberg o/u at the NWTF convention. I got to glance at one and it was a 28ga but I'm sure they have a 20 to. It was short, light, and camo.
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Point of info: I called Browning when I set up my gun and spoke with their tech that was very familiar and involved with my model Cynergy. He recommended tight choke in the bottom, open choke in the top. He said to Site the lower barrel in with my Red Dot. It worked perfect in my particular gun. I really like Over-Unders for turkey. I have had a few different models, the Cynergy Ultimate Turkey being my favorite. The way they designed the barrels keeping them tight together towards the ends gives the 2 barrels POI a better chance of being consistent with each other. The chokes almost touch when screwing them in. I also had a Fabarms Heckler Koch Special Turkey Over-under which I replaced with the Cynergy. The Barrels on the Fabarm we're only 20 inches, a bit too short for me. It was dangerous to sling carry if you did not pay attention. Did not pattern nearly as good as my Browning, and turkey chokes were tough to get. An Over-Under is a great choice in the turkey woods, I do carry mine frequently every spring......
Quote from: TrackeySauresRex on February 18, 2024, 12:35:35 PM
Not hijacking the thread... However, Im new to the O/U turkey game and I'm all over this thread.. great info.
I 'm currently running a .585 in the bottom with 2-3/4 #7 HW (Steven's)
Top .560 with 3" #7 HW..
@ 30 my POI is close. My question for the sharpies is.. Would you like to see this set up a little more open in the bottom barrel?
All info is always greatly appreciated.
Thank you all
Johnny
Depends on what you want to accomplish, and the only way to tell for sure is to pattern and see. I first went to an O/U back in 2009 after missing two birds inside 10 yards with my 1187 in 2008. I experimented with handloaded lead 7s and different chokes. Cyl choke gave a beautiful spread at 10 yds but ran out of pattern density (<100 pellets/10" circle) at 20 yrds. IC choke ran out of pattern density @ 25 yds, mod @ 30 and full @35. My ST .675 (12 ga) with TSS HLs is really tight inside 40.
I really wanted the open barrel to be able to reach to 40 if necessary while still having acceptable spread up close, so I started loading a light load of TSS for the open barrel. It still does > 100/10" @ 40 through a mod choke but with a lot more wiggle room than the Sumtoy, which does 350/10 @40. Using TSS in both barrels does compromise some wiggle room up close compared to using lead in the open barrel, but will allow both barrels to kill to 40 if needed.
I imagine you will be in a similar situation using HW 7s. Shoot your .585 @ 20 and see if you are satisfied with the results. If it is too tight for your liking you will need to open that choke a lot or switch to lead for that barrel, understanding that if you do so, you probably won't be able to stretch it to 40. Like I said, just depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
Quote from: aclawrence on February 18, 2024, 01:32:51 PM
They had a sexy new Mossberg o/u at the NWTF convention. I got to glance at one and it was a 28ga but I'm sure they have a 20 to. It was short, light, and camo.
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Understand, a couple mentions here of barrels overlapping. They need to and it's gotta be done properly. Often checked than adjusted not just soldered together and let be as the barrels may not shoot as desired. Point is that checking, adjusting costs money. Mossberg at that price point prob isn't doing so. You'd prob be better getting a better grade gun. Just fyi
It's already out of my price point at $900 plus haha. I do really like the idea of an o/u turkey setup.
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Quote from: aclawrence on February 20, 2024, 04:39:40 PM
It's already out of my price point at $900 plus haha. I do really like the idea of an o/u turkey setup.
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Academy sports used to carry Yildiz youth 20ga O/U. Think I got mine for $425. Probably a little more now
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Quote from: wchadw on February 20, 2024, 07:48:59 PM
Quote from: aclawrence on February 20, 2024, 04:39:40 PM
It's already out of my price point at $900 plus haha. I do really like the idea of an o/u turkey setup.
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Academy sports used to carry Yildiz youth 20ga O/U. Think I got mine for $425. Probably a little more now
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$429 great little gun for the $
https://www.academy.com/p/yildiz-lineage-youth-20-gauge-20-in-ou-shotgun
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What are the more open chokes are you guys using? 575 or 585?
I use 585
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.601
Speaking strictly turkey hunting with my 20 gauge Over under.
I want my top barrel to be my tight choke barrel. As to follow up shots well if i need it past 30 yards and i'm running a more open choke in the lower barrel. I don't have a follow up shot any way. If i would happen to need a follow up shot with my more open choked barrel. Then i have the tight choke in the top barrel so here i have a follow up shot.
What i will likely do after i put a red dot on it. I will run a .555 Chomp n choke with 1.5oz of Tss 9 shot in the top barrel its the tightest pattern. The bottom barrel i'll run a .565 Chomp n choke with 1 5/8 oz of 9 Tss it has a more open pattern with great coverage.
I mean its a 20 gauge recoil is not a concern as to what barrel shoots first. The barrel regulation is very good with my CZ Drake so that isn't a factor.
When i squirrel hunt i run a full in the top and modified in the bottom. If i need the full i select the barrel if i need the modified i select the bottom barrel. Same way rabbit or pheasant Mod in the top skeet 1 in the bottom. 95% of the time i have the selecter set to shoot the bottom barrel first.
I'm shooting improved modified choke in bottom barrel w/Golden Pheasant #6 to 30 yds.
Top barrel is Longbeard XR choke w/Longbeard XR #6 over 30 yds.
I do mine long barrel (562 with hand loaded 9s) on top. I have a Trijicon RMR triangle sighted top (long) barrel at top point of triangle.
So short barrel with Sumtoy 585 with golden pheasant for close shots, I just cover the head with the full triangle
Works good for me. Easy for close fast shots and feel like it's nore pinpoint for longer shots
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Thanks guy for all the great info.
I have a CZ 20 gauge that needs to be setup. Just needs Huglu chokes.
Some type of rib mount for a red dot?
Every thing else you all are covering very well. Again thanks.
Quote from: owlhoot on March 24, 2024, 02:53:09 PM
Thanks guy for all the great info.
I have a CZ 20 gauge that needs to be setup. Just needs Huglu chokes.
Some type of rib mount for a red dot?
Every thing else you all are covering very well. Again thanks.
Sumtoy can do rib mount and chokes
Or meadow creek does rib mounts that don't require drilling
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