Turkey hunting forum for turkey hunting tips

I have played with a lot of jakes, fewer subordinate toms but never a really mature, dominate tom.  I've seen some and called to them but I don't seem to be able to fool them one little bit.  What is your expectation when you pick up your gun?  Are you thinking about that at all or are you planning on first come first served?

Any opportunity I get.

It all depends on the situation, but I have killed a few subordinate Toms along with the satellite gobblers .... I find the subordinate is easy to kill if he has competition coming from a different direction into the mix of the calling battle ...  All of this makes for an exciting hunt...  Gobblers coming from more than one direction...  I will take whichever opportunity presents itself ....

If he responds to my calls, I believe in my own mind that I can shoot him. If I can get him turned, my way.......

You done got my blood pressure UP!!!! DADGUMITT 

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

Early in the season, the subs are easier. The later in the season the dominant gobblers are in more of a fighting mood. If they are together, the subdominant gobblers can lure the dominant birds to their demise. Z

I consider a dominant Tom to be at least 3 years old. This doesn't mean that the oldest birds in a flock are always dominant, but they are for sure wary, savvy, and very woods smart. These are the ones we all want to engage with. Most hunters on here have harvested their share of dominant birds for sure. These guys are usually strutting for their ladies bringing the rest of the flock in tow.  Call in their hen, they usually follow right to the gun. Some of the oldest birds I have been lucky enough to harvest are the most memorable hunts for sure. Some even took multiple days and several set-ups to get them. Remember, it's been my experience that the breeding hen will always lead their "Guy" away from your calling. She usually doesn't want to share her man with anyone. Tactics that worked well for me on these guys are knowing where they are roosted, soft, limited calling, figuring out where their hen (hens) want to travel to, and solid inconspicuous set-ups. Finally, PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE! Don't push the envelope, you mess up and he's gone. When you do harvest one of these guys, you will experience a "Rush" you will never forget......

How often do you engage or kill a dominate tom?

I "engage" a lot of them...I "kill" very few.   ;D
Of course, the definition of a "dominate tom" has to be clarified somewhat.  My definition is more based on age than dominance in terms of being the boss gobbler in a group.  Depending on where one is hunting, a dominant gobbler may be no more than a two or three-year-old.  There is a big difference between killing one of those than killing a gobbler that has survived more than three years in a "pressured" hunting environment. 

I have killed very few gobblers that I thought to be more than four years old, and the ones I have killed were either the result of hunting a lightly (re: controlled, limited hunting pressure) hunted area,...or were the result of some sort of "extenuating" circumstance that put me in the right spot at the right time and under the right conditions of the moment.

Due to the way I personally hunt...that is, trying to find a responsive gobbler that will carry on a conversation and come to my calling...I generally don't do the things that cause those "extenuating" circumstances.  As such, the great majority of the turkeys I have killed have been two and three-year-olds, although there have been handful of exceptions over the decades. 

In short, I hunt for that "classic" encounter where a gobbler comes in gobbling, strutting, and drumming to my calling. Those old "dominant toms" have kind of figured out that doing that is not such a good idea once they reach a certain age and have survived a few "hunter encounters".   :D

I take the first long beard that comes into range usually.  With multiple toms, I'll pick the one that looks the biggest or acts like the boss. 
I truly believe every longbeard is a trophy.  I've never seen the spurs on one before I pulled the trigger.  I've killed the boss bird, I'm sure I've killed some subordinate birds.  I've never walked away from a successful hunt unhappy. :camohat:

Full fan, good beard. Dead.
I try to kill the "dominate" bird, but I'm more of a setting kinda guy. If it looks good, feels like a good hunt. He's a goner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every chance I get.

I've killed some good ones but I don't really think about it at all when I'm going out. I hunt (or try to) any gobbling bird I can find. Sometimes that's an old bird and sometimes it's not. I've killed some 2 year olds that I just knew were going to have big hooked spurs and I've killed some limb hangers that I expected to be 2 year olds. That is not the norm obviously


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've engaged a few, rarely kill them. Theres actually one I dealt with on multiple hunts last year that by the end of season I was hoping he'd get struck by lightning!  :TooFunny: he whipped my butt all season, but if he's still around this spring,  I'll try him again. Super hard headed and unpredictable bird...

After 51 years of chasing this bird I am unsure of how to define a "dominate gobbler."   I just don't know how to do it and I am unsure whether it matters; you give him the call you think will work and if it doesn't work, you then have something to think about.

Quote from: Tail Feathers on January 30, 2024, 09:32:55 PM
I take the first long beard that comes into range usually.  With multiple toms, I'll pick the one that looks the biggest or acts like the boss. 
I truly believe every longbeard is a trophy.  I've never seen the spurs on one before I pulled the trigger.  I've killed the boss bird, I'm sure I've killed some subordinate birds.  I've never walked away from a successful hunt unhappy. :camohat:

X2

I've NEVER not had a smile on my face with a dead longbeard


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote from: Brinkcalls on January 30, 2024, 10:26:51 PM
Full fan, good beard. Dead.
I try to kill the "dominate" bird, but I'm more of a setting kinda guy. If it looks good, feels like a good hunt. He's a goner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Couldn't agree more. 

If there are no witnesses when I kill one, then he was the most dominant bird in a five square mile area.    Seems like the only time I kill two year olds or subordinate gobblers is when I hunt with people.   

Every chance I get, of course if his buddy shows he gets it!

I spend a lot of time in the turkey woods and only occasionally do I believe I am hunting the dominant bird, I think many times the "2" yr old birds are crafty as they sneak around trying to silently steal hens from a
dominant bird.

I get enough of the "trophy" mentality guiding big game I have no need for it when it comes to turkeys, all toms get it!

Quote from: guesswho on January 31, 2024, 02:58:48 PM
If there are no witnesses when I kill one, then he was the most dominant bird in a five square mile area.    Seems like the only time I kill two year olds or subordinate gobblers is when I hunt with people.

:TooFunny:

If he's on display and gobbling like he's the dominant Tom.. He gonna get it

Well, this fits my theory that most of the birds that are killed are two years old.  Way fewer are three and a four or five year old is rare.  It seems like few if any here go out with a trophy in mind and that the tom that responds is just fine.  I like that.

I typically do not sort my birds anymore. There was a time I would pick out the old unkillable legend and hound him like the hound of hell. I killed some and some tore my soul from me, but I loved every minute of it. As I matured my attitudes changed and I no longer found the fun in the agony of defeat. I now want a bird that gobbles and comes of any age and stature. If I know where an old rascal lives I will give him a try and see if this is the day he woke up stupid (they all do this sooner or later). I have a unique situation as many birds live for years on the private land I hunt and I can chase the same old bird for 3-4 even 5 years. Eventually I get many of them. However, they are not my target of choice, but my jackpot gambit. I have no shame in killing what gobbles and comes. I wonder, should we specifically target these old monarchs or leave them to spread their genes. Zelmo is right, if you want to kill the old legend, wait until the last part of season. This is when the big old boys die. They have lost most of their hens and they wake up stupid horny one morning and he's yours'

For what its worth, determining if the bird was "dominate." Assuming here dominant means a gobbler spending the vast majority of daylight hours successfully fighting, strutting, and breeding for weeks on end, vs. other daily activities like feeding.

Body weight...two big timber hunts ended with a mature longbeard, better than 1" spurs, that each tipped the scale just over 14 pounds. Both cases, wing feathers worn off, breast sponge depleted, lower breast feathers worn away and missing, and an empty crop. So two birds focused more on strutting and breeding, than picking grasshoppers or scratching up new green shoots that lost about 20 - 30% of their normal body weight.

The other may be behavior. Sometimes that gobbler you are working runs around the hollow gobbling like he's counting trees. He doesn't care who hears his ruckus, doesn't seem reluctant to announce his presence for fear of getting his butt whipped by the actual dominant bird.

Or, he's a vocal 2 year old just feeling his oats rather than a wicked old bird with sharp spurs...

Anecdotal at best, but workable theories.

If he gobbles, I must go to him no matter how old or dominant I think he is!

Percentage wise, all the birds I have  harvested would be around 8%. Just engaging and getting my butt whooped, I will guess 20 plus % of the time I engage the dominant bird. Target birds I do a little better. I want to target a 5 year old bird with a 12" beard and 1.5" spurs that tips the scales at 25 pounds, but we all know that isnt realistic. My target birds are ones that aren't disturbed for the most part and my familiarity with them and the area. I take a fair few people hunting and want them to enjoy and engage after I " push them out of the nest", lol. So I want some " friendlier birds to play with. Looking forward to hunting Florida this year and learning from a great hunter and call maker. Always stretch your brain, lol. Z

Many hunters assume the dominate bird is the biggest by weight and spur length....this is not true. I have killed my share of dominate birds that wouldn't score worth a darn on NWTF's score card

Quote from: eggshell on February 01, 2024, 07:51:13 AM
Many hunters assume the dominate bird is the biggest by weight and spur length....this is not true. I have killed my share of dominate birds that wouldn't score worth a darn on NWTF's score card

So true.  I once had two birds coming in, one was strutting, pushing and shoving the other-clearly seemed to be the dominant of the pair.
I saw the long beard on the subordinate, but in strut, I thought the beard was hidden in the breast feathers of the dominant bird.  Yep, super Jake with a full fan. 

I have always been about eating turkey so, if it had a beard and had a snood, It's what I shot and all was good.

Now, many years and turkeys later, I pass on jakes unless there is something special about them or if I have not been in turkeys all season. My criteria now is a beard at least 5" and even tail margin.

A few years ago, I killed 3 jakes in the spring and a jake and a tom with a 5.5' beard in the fall. I only saw 2 toms all year and this gang of jakes I was seeing every day. I was out of turkey meat, so I whittled the jakes down some. No regrets. The fall tom was in a group of young toms all the same age. The exact number of toms that was the number of jakes I had left in that group in the spring, so, I am sure it was the spring jake group after they had molted and done 7 months of growing.

Every once in a while.  But it happens

Quote from: Tom007 on January 30, 2024, 06:46:22 PM
I consider a dominant Tom to be at least 3 years old. This doesn't mean that the oldest birds in a flock are always dominant, but they are for sure wary, savvy, and very woods smart. These are the ones we all want to engage with. Most hunters on here have harvested their share of dominant birds for sure. These guys are usually strutting for their ladies bringing the rest of the flock in tow.  Call in their hen, they usually follow right to the gun. Some of the oldest birds I have been lucky enough to harvest are the most memorable hunts for sure. Some even took multiple days and several set-ups to get them. Remember, it's been my experience that the breeding hen will always lead their "Guy" away from your calling. She usually doesn't want to share her man with anyone. Tactics that worked well for me on these guys are knowing where they are roosted, soft, limited calling, figuring out where their hen (hens) want to travel to, and solid inconspicuous set-ups. Finally, PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE! Don't push the envelope, you mess up and he's gone. When you do harvest one of these guys, you will experience a "Rush" you will never forget......

Dead on with my observations!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't feel like I've engaged "the" dominant Tom many times in the spots I hunt.  Usually the dominant Tom has most of the hens with him and he roosts with the hens.  It really doesn't matter though, as the sub Toms can be as big or bigger than dominant Toms, they just don't fight as well or seem to be as popular with the girls.  As someone said earlier, I hunt for the hunts where Toms want to play the woods version of one-on-one Marco Polo.  Those engagements are a win-win for me because I'll be pumped after the hunt regardless of whether or not I pull the trigger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every change I get. I have been pretty lucky and killed a few true dominent birds. If a bird seems to be mature and he comes in playing the game he gets shot. I have one bird that I will never top. I called him the dinosaur. Neither of us would leave. I played him for 4 hours and finally killed him. He was ancient and battle scarred. The caps were gone from his spurs and they still measured 1 3/8". He weighed 28-7. It was one of those days that make you glad you are a turkey hunter. When he circled and came in behind me all the other birds left. I was absolutely humbled by this bird.

the dinosaur
(https://i.imgur.com/ocDZ68j.jpeg)