Starting in the fall of 2022 Florida required all turkeys harvested on both public and private land to be reported through a combination telecheck or computer system. This was long overdue and I certainly applauded this new system. It was much better than their normal best guess done by a research company. They now have actual reported harvest numbers for all 139 WMAs (they have long given numbers for only 37 of the WMAs) and 67 counties in the state. Sound good? Not really. They are refusing to release the numbers of all 67 counties and 102 of the WMAs by posting them on their public web site. Several excuses are given by their forum apologist but none make much sense. Be aware of this before applying for any WMA quota hunts or booking with an outfitter in many areas that may or may not have been impacted by the September 28th 2022 Hurricane Ian. Ask a lot of questions. IMO there is no legitimate reason to have a required reporting system and then hide the numbers received from the public. I closely follow states such as Kentucky and Ohio that post their harvest numbers without delay throughout the seasons. I was told that a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) was required to get these secret harvest numbers from Florida FWC. Crazy times. Do a lot of research before spending big dollars on a Florida Osceola safari.
Deer harvest reports are also hidden but this is a turkey forum and deer are not my problem. Good luck.
It's a shame to have to do it that way, but have you made a written request for that information? Looks easy to do.
https://www.nfoic.org/florida-foia-laws/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Florida%20Sunshine,any%20way%20the%20person%20wants.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0100-0199/0119/Sections/0119.01.html
I agree, that seems very odd. I too am happy they have brought about a check in system to count numbers to help manage the Florida resources.
Most states are happy and energetic to release such data, maybe even at inflated numbers. Maybe Florida is trying to figure what they want to do with their real number and not the Think Tank number.
No I have not submitted a FOIA request and won't just on principal. These should not be secret numbers available to only a select few. The number is the number. If 20 birds were harvest in say Hardee County on private land or on a quota hunt at say Orange Hammock WMA during a quota hunt (no check station here or most of the other 102 of the 139 WMAs) they will have the EXACT number that were reported by legal hunters complying with the law. Post that number. Nothing more nothing less. I have strong opinions why they are making this much harder than it needs to be. That discussion is on going on another Florida forum and not needed here. A multitude of hunters from across the country apply for Florida quota hunts or book with various outfitters. When the harvest numbers are hidden it makes many smell a rat so to speak. FWC gave the NWTF a figure for 2022 of 15,000 estimated birds harvested (it is posted in the spring edition of NWTF Turkey Call magazine as well as the available harvest numbers from the other 48 states - I know Alaska doesn't count). I'm wondering what number they will release next spring. It need not be an estimate any longer. They appear very worried about something. What? Just do your homework before using valuable preference points on a Florida quota hunt or throwing out the big bucks necessary to book a hunt with an outfitter. Good luck. If the numbers are ever posted I'll be thrilled to bump this up and say FINALLY.
Maybe they want to use the data to help manage turkeys instead of using it to just kill more turkeys.
I'd have no faith in these numbers from FWC.
I think very few public and almost no private hunters are reporting on anything. Doubt if most of them even know they're supposed to.
I wish we could get accurate data. Just knowing the Florida attitude towards things don't see people participating. Could be and hope I am wrong.
Very easy to get info from Florida. I do a FOIA every year to get quota hunt stats. They've always provided.
An open records request can be done in about a minute by email. I agree they have the info and should release it without that, but it's not hard to get. No doubt someone will get it and post it on the FL forum you speak of before long tho.
I had to do that for the county I hunt in TX. I don't think the state wanted to hide the numbers, the just didn't think to post them. I asked for info on one county and they sent me the reported kills in all counties with mandatory reporting.
I suppose I should be more patient. I expected total transparency and it appears that will never happen. I have seen the comments suggesting an extremely high percentage rate of non-compliance in Florida many times now. Maybe actual physical tags required for everyone would help. With a licensing system that has almost zero accountability for any resident over 65 years old it shouldn't be a surprise if many private land hunters just didn't bother with the mandated reporting . Old guys like myself don't need a license. Don't need a turkey tag. All that is needed is a proof of residency. This goes for most hunting and fishing. The loss of matching federal funds seems to be of little concern.
I hoped to at least see the results from the quota hunts held on the numerous WMAs with no check stations or drop boxes. Both of my last two quota draws were on areas such as this. These were both pre mandatory reporting and we took a bird on both. FWC would have had no clue if we hadn't bumped into a game officer when we left. At least the quota hunts may have some degree of accountability so I guess it's a FOIA request for me. I'm resigned to the presumption that the county by county private land numbers will be worthless and won't even ask for these. Oh well.
Quote from: joey46 on August 21, 2023, 05:56:35 AM
I suppose I should be more patient. I expected total transparency and it appears that will never happen. I have seen the comments suggesting an extremely high percentage rate of non-compliance in Florida many times now. Maybe actual physical tags required for everyone would help. With a licensing system that has almost zero accountability for any resident over 65 years old it shouldn't be a surprise if many private land hunters just didn't bother with the mandated reporting . Old guys like myself don't need a license. Don't need a turkey tag. All that is needed is a proof of residency. This goes for most hunting and fishing. The loss of matching federal funds seems to be of little concern.
I hoped to at least see the results from the quota hunts held on the numerous WMAs with no check stations or drop boxes. Both of my last two quota draws were on areas such as this. These were both pre mandatory reporting and we took a bird on both. FWC would have had no clue if we hadn't bumped into a game officer when we left. At least the quota hunts may have some degree of accountability so I guess it's a FOIA request for me. I'm resigned to the presumption that the county by county private land numbers will be worthless and won't even ask for these. Oh well.
Other southeast states that have enacted harvest reporting in recent years ended up with reported numbers about HALF of their estimates for the first year or two. (I'm thinking Mississippi, Alabama). And I believe one of those is still about half. Wouldn't doubt Florida being the same. I agree with you though on that the agency should publish the numbers!
Please share with us what you learn. Not very familiar with that system, so without having tags, how/why is the compliance any different for private vs public and old hunters vs young? ???
Quote from: joey46 on August 21, 2023, 05:56:35 AM
I suppose I should be more patient. I expected total transparency and it appears that will never happen. I have seen the comments suggesting an extremely high percentage rate of non-compliance in Florida many times now. Maybe actual physical tags required for everyone would help. With a licensing system that has almost zero accountability for any resident over 65 years old it shouldn't be a surprise if many private land hunters just didn't bother with the mandated reporting . Old guys like myself don't need a license. Don't need a turkey tag. All that is needed is a proof of residency. This goes for most hunting and fishing. The loss of matching federal funds seems to be of little concern.
I hoped to at least see the results from the quota hunts held on the numerous WMAs with no check stations or drop boxes. Both of my last two quota draws were on areas such as this. These were both pre mandatory reporting and we took a bird on both. FWC would have had no clue if we hadn't bumped into a game officer when we left. At least the quota hunts may have some degree of accountability so I guess it's a FOIA request for me. I'm resigned to the presumption that the county by county private land numbers will be worthless and won't even ask for these. Oh well.
The amount of WMA's down here that someone just opens the gate day before the hunts and closes it after is done is nuts. If they cant man the check stations, regular patrolling would do alot of good but I haven't been checked in a long time. I think the FWC could take some notes from the Air Force bases on check stations, they take it far more serious (for obvious reasons) and the data collection they do is best I have seen
Of course all the pay to play WMA's have top notch check stations and plenty of staff but that's a whole different subject.
If you get caught driving out of the woods with an untagged turkey your gonna get in a lot of trouble, probably be done hunting for the year. I think that will keep most hunters honest.
A few observations on this discussion:
First off, I agree that the information on harvest data/statistics should be readily available. Whether there is a valid reason for that information not to be posted to the general public from a management standpoint is debatable, I suppose. Regardless, it should be available to those that want to see it, and without having to get an act of congress to get it.
Secondly, I am a firm believer that there should ALWAYS be a physical tagging system in place...and it should be strictly enforced with adequate deterrents for violators in the form of stiff fines and loss of hunting privileges, and in extreme cases, jail time. Although I suspect it is not a widespread problem, without a physical tag that has to be attached to a game animal after harvest, there will always be the possibility that there will be those that have the mind-set that, "if I don't get checked before I get this animal home, it don't count."
The question is: why give those kinds of folks that loophole when a tagging requirement would, at least, make it harder to get away with...as well as maybe make people think twice about doing it? It is not exactly a big imposition for agencies to provide a physical tag as part of the hunting license.
Crooks are gonna be crooks and game hogs are gonna be game hogs. The vast majority of turkey hunters do what they are supposed to do and you never hear about it. Every one I talked to during the season were saying to each other "You know you need to check it in like deer?". Physical tags are and have been gamed in exactly the same way forever. Nothing is going to get 100% of people to comply. It is just how it is. This is a step in a good direction.
I am not sure this info is intended to help people kill more turkeys, but is intended to know how many are harvested and adjust the codes and statutes. Does not mean it should not be used for that, just that is not the intent of the data harvest.
A FOIA request is the only way you will get the info. It's not secret info, they're just not publishing it. There's probably a fill in the blank form on the states website you can fill out and submit.
Quote from: Kylongspur88 on August 21, 2023, 08:36:19 PM
A FOIA request is the only way you will get the info. It's not secret info, they're just not publishing it. There's probably a fill in the blank form on the states website you can fill out and submit.
Sample Form:
https://www.nfoic.org/florida-sample-foia-request/
Here is the actual link to the FWC information request. They normally get me quota hunt data within a week or two every year.
https://flfwc.govqa.us/WEBAPP/_rs/(S(pnpc3rzdoxdvjjptqmznad03))/RequestOpenCI.aspx?sSessionID=&rqst=1
Thanks for the replies and FOIA info. Until these discussions I never realized so many submitted them. Florida WMAs applications for turkey quota hunts take place in a few months. I had hoped to know the post hurricane harvest number prior to the application deadline for a few areas with no check stations or drop boxes. I've done a boots on the ground look at one area and a drive-by of another. IMO neither looked devastated but knowing their harvest numbers for their 2023 quota hunts would be nice before applying for 2024. This is the reason I started this topic on a few forums and it seemed to have snowballed.
Bump - Just sent in the FOIA request. First one ever. I'll post how it goes. Should not have had to do this.
Quote from: joey46 on September 15, 2023, 08:11:44 AM
Bump - Just sent in the FOIA request. First one ever. I'll post how it goes. Should not have had to do this.
When I saw this thread a couple weeks back, I submitted one for harvest results on deer and turkeys just to see how easy the info was to get. I received the data for deer back within a couple days, I have never received anything for turkeys
I also requested the applicants for special opportunity areas. That spreadsheet was so large it made me realize that $5 per application is never going to change..
I received a reply stating they are so busy it could take several weeks for my request. What a hoot. They are hiding these turkey numbers I believe. Your reply that you have received the deer numbers but not received the turkey numbers makes it obvious.
I guess I'm on the outside. Harvest reporting imo is a waste of money. Too much opportunity to NOT report to suggest the info you get is even remotely correct. Would much rather have a physical tagging system (as suggested) with extremely stiff repercussions for transgression. Again, at least in MS, easy to do wrong and get away with, but IF you get caught... it's gonna hurt-and it should.
Now, MS is reporting the #s per county it seems throughout the season. However, assuming it's even remotely truthful all you know is which counties are reporting the most success( or the most hunters, lol). Had a gentlemen this week ( when he found out where I live/where I hunt) state that," according to your reports, your county was tops this spring..." Not sure this is what I personally want (as an avid and selfish Turkey hunter ) others gaining on info I'm complicit in reporting! Truthfully, somebody tell me please, What does Harvest Reporting as it is right now, do to HELP Wild Turkey conservation that physical tagging would not provide?!?
Physical tags and stiff fines are the way to go. Never been a doubt. Florida is such an anomaly with any 65 year old resident having no accountability if hunting private land. It truly is a :TrainWreck1: and it appears they will fight tooth and nail to hide what data they received.
My personal belief is that potentially good and well meaning biologist are hamstrung by know it alls with money. I'm man enough to admit that I am occasionally just that ( without the money, of course). I believe that true and ethical hunters are the greatest conservationists. Turkey populations will ebb and flow throughout the times but humans have influenced habitat to the extent that we are most likely seeing much more profound ebbs- I hope that with the poult sighting reports that the "flow" is rising. BUT as y'all are probably tired of hearing, more is gonna have to be done to guarantee the big birds flourish
If anyone actually receives the 2023 turkey harvest numbers from FWC please let us know. My state representative is the head of the conversation committee. If FWC ignores these FOIA request I'll send him my concerns. Thanks.