I was mowing the pasture the other day and a thought occured to me about coyote's impact on the turkey population. I have killed every coyote I get chance to, but the turkeys aren't bouncing back on my place or the two farms that join me. On the other side of the coin, the deer and rabbit population has exploded. While circling the pasture my mind pondered on why and I remember a conversation I had with a veterinarian in a hunting camp in Georgia this past spring.
I ask him if he had heard that when one or both dominant coyotes in an breeding pair are killed, the coyotes breed at younger ages, and more pups survive following a temporary increase in available prey ? His reply was he thought it possible as he had seen similar results where feral cats were the topic of the studies he had read. I know coyotes kill turkeys when they get the chance, as every year I kill at least one that answers my turkey call. But how big is the role they play in the recovery of the turkey population?
If the rabbit population is exploding and the turkeys are dwindling I'm guessing coyotes aren't the issue.
Coyotes kill a lot of nest raiders so are actually considered neutral by some. They eat all the stuff that eats the turkey eggs like racoons,skunks and opossums.
I've read that coyotes rarely get grown turkeys, they aren't good enough hunters to get many. But if you remove all coyotes, you get more egg eaters; possums and such. Those creatures that coyotes help keep in check. As stated above, it may be a neutral effect taking them out.
Personal observations make me kinda agree that coyotes are not a big threat to turkeys ( esp when they can fly). I have on occasion seen turkeys never leave an open area with the appearance of a song dog. They take notice and keep their distance but don't seem frightened. It's a different story with bobcats though. However, if Wiley comes sniffing around to my calling, he gets terminated. Bobcats and raptors I believe are more consistent predators of our bird imho...
And I would like to see a coyote tangle with a Coon, possum or skunk. I imagine it's very rare that they kill any of the 3.
Coyotes kill coon, possum, skunk, deer and turkey. Once coyotes LEARN to hunt turkeys, the flock is in trouble. Not all coyotes learn to hunt turkeys.
Quote from: Capt long beard on August 01, 2023, 09:11:07 PM
Coyotes kill a lot of nest raiders so are actually considered neutral by some. They eat all the stuff that eats the turkey eggs like racoons,skunks and opossums.
Kill some coons and opossums and toss them out where coyotes frequent. They won't touch them, much less kill living ones.
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Dont kill the possums they eat ticks all day long.
A yote has to just have a lucky day to catch a grown turkey , they get the crippled ones more then anything.
This doesn't mean they don't "try " . They've messed up many turkey hunts for me .
They do have good success on the fawns though .
Nest robbing raccoons, I would think the Yotes lay a beating on the pults for sure.
Quote from: cwedding on August 02, 2023, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: Capt long beard on August 01, 2023, 09:11:07 PM
Coyotes kill a lot of nest raiders so are actually considered neutral by some. They eat all the stuff that eats the turkey eggs like racoons,skunks and opossums.
Kill some coons and opossums and toss them out where coyotes frequent. They won't touch them, much less kill living ones.
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So a coyote won't eat a live juvenile racoon as opposed to one rotting and stinking that you threw in the ditch?
I say work on them all with a balanced approach. Don't target just one specifically. You will never remove them all, but at least maybe keep them in check if it's a sustained effort year after year.
Quote from: Paulmyr on August 02, 2023, 01:30:21 PM
Quote from: cwedding on August 02, 2023, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: Capt long beard on August 01, 2023, 09:11:07 PM
Coyotes kill a lot of nest raiders so are actually considered neutral by some. They eat all the stuff that eats the turkey eggs like racoons,skunks and opossums.
Kill some coons and opossums and toss them out where coyotes frequent. They won't touch them, much less kill living ones.
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So a coyote won't eat a live juvenile racoon as opposed to one rotting and stinking that you threw in the ditch?
Was winter when I experimented so they actually stayed in pretty good shape for a long long time.
Also posed the question of whether yotes eat coons to a very prominent wildlife biologist who has gps tracked many many raccoons. None have been lost to coyote predation.
Has there been any evidence of coyote predation on raccoons? I enjoy trapping and removing both from all properties.
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Quote from: Prospector on August 02, 2023, 05:52:30 AM
Personal observations make me kinda agree that coyotes are not a big threat to turkeys ( esp when they can fly). I have on occasion seen turkeys never leave an open area with the appearance of a song dog. They take notice and keep their distance but don't seem frightened. It's a different story with bobcats though. However, if Wiley comes sniffing around to my calling, he gets terminated. Bobcats and raptors I believe are more consistent predators of our bird imho...
Come to think I did see 7 turkeys fly down to a field where a coyote was this past may.
Right at daylight the coyote came onto the field across the creek from me. About 30 minutes later the birds came off the roost a landed about 100 yards from him. Both were aware of the other , but I never seen any major alarm on the bird's account.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230802/33efc7c60de9e69a8f0575db215007b7.jpg)
This gobbler was strutting in the food plot on trail cam prior to ending up in Wiley's jaws.
Yotes won't be getting passed by me.
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I think a good question to ask is how many of us here on OG has ever seen a coyote catch an adult turkey? Personally, I have seen coyotes and turkeys in proximity to each other on only a handful of occasions. Not only have I not seen a coyote catch one of them, I have never even seen one attempt to catch one of them. On every occasion I have witnessed, the turkeys came to immediate attention when the coyote came into view, the coyote seemed to recognize that the turkeys were aware of it, and the coyote just continued on its way without any attempt at catching one. These were some pretty close encounters where I was a bit surprised at the lack of any attempt by the coyotes.
Admittedly, in each encounter I witnessed, there was a flock of turkeys involved, hence numerous sets of eyeballs on the coyotes. Perhaps in different circumstances where maybe only a single (or few) turkeys were involved and did not seem to be aware of the coyotes, they would have made more of an effort.
Of course, my experiences have no bearing on the matter of whether coyotes are a serious predation problem for turkeys. I am sure there are places and conditions where things might be different. I just haven't seen it here in several states in the southwest. Would be interesting to hear from others about their coyote/turkey encounters...
I've never seen a coyote catch a turkey. I've seen turkeys and coyotes in the same field not far from one another and pretty much not even bother each other.. The turkeys keep on feeding and doing what turkeys do... The coyotes went on their way ....
Let's get this straight. I know a coyote will eat Turkey if he can catch it. I don't believe they consistently catch mature turkeys. I believe they will most certainly take the opportunity if it surfaces. I , however, also KNOW I will terminate with prejudice anyone that gives me an opportunity....
Quote from: cwedding on August 02, 2023, 02:51:30 PM
Quote from: Paulmyr on August 02, 2023, 01:30:21 PM
Quote from: cwedding on August 02, 2023, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: Capt long beard on August 01, 2023, 09:11:07 PM
Coyotes kill a lot of nest raiders so are actually considered neutral by some. They eat all the stuff that eats the turkey eggs like racoons,skunks and opossums.
Kill some coons and opossums and toss them out where coyotes frequent. They won't touch them, much less kill living ones.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So a coyote won't eat a live juvenile racoon as opposed to one rotting and stinking that you threw in the ditch?
Was winter when I experimented so they actually stayed in pretty good shape for a long long time.
Also posed the question of whether yotes eat coons to a very prominent wildlife biologist who has gps tracked many many raccoons. None have been lost to coyote predation.
Has there been any evidence of coyote predation on raccoons? I enjoy trapping and removing both from all properties.
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I've set snares for coyotes around road kill deer carcasses used as bait while trapping in the winter with limited success. A couple coyotes were caught while circling the perimeter. I don't think any coyotes attempted to feed on any of carcasses we set on. They came in circled were caught while circling but most circled at about 50yds and left. Thought was they were catching remnants of human scent and it put them on alert.
I checked into coyotes praying on racoons and found a number of articles stating the did. One article even went on to say racoons were one of the top prey species on the planet. Can't tell you which articles were based on studies as this was over a year ago when I checked. A quick search should find plenty of info on raccoon predators.
Not saying they don't, but I would like to see it. I've Coon hunted with hounds my entire life and seen coons whoop some of the baddest hounds and walk away.
It has probably been ten years but had a coyote run into my set up on a field edge and attacked my hen decoy . The decoy was to slick for the coyote to maintain its bite and ended up running thru it . Ran a little ways and stopped and looked back , the hen was still there and he was studying the decoy, I think he felt the supposed bird was sick or injured , might be what brought on the first attempt , he then started back for a second attempt but I intervened . I had been napping , could have woke up to no decoy . I think he had been studying it just to my right and knew something was wrong . Given a chance , I think they will eat almost anything , including pets .
Quote from: Twowithone on August 02, 2023, 11:50:43 AM
Dont kill the possums they eat ticks all day long.
Not even close to being true, has been proven wrong several times.
The viral claim that opossums consume large numbers of ticks has been debunked. A recent peer reviewed study examined this claim and examined the diets and stomach contents of wild opossums and found zero ticks or tick parts. The study was corroboratated by 23 other studies across the country which examined opossums diet - none of which included ticks. SOURCE: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1877959X21001333?via%3Dihub=
As far as coyotes getting turkey goes yes it does happen I am sure. I have read several studies and they all seem to say that coyote will not normally try to take turkey in an open field or field they can be seen in but if it is an ambush type situation they will try to take a turkey solo or in a flock as they walk by.
I think in my are the Fisher have become a major problem and in my county we are not allowed to hunt them or trap them, in two of the next counties over we are allowed to, but not here. There are some that moved into the state park and you do not see turkey in that area of the park any more.
I've seen a coyote crossing a field with a hen in its mouth.
When hunting LBL Kentucky they routinely came to hen yelps. LBL was the coyote hot spot for a while. Don't see that often in Florida. When I can get pictures to post again have a few trail camera photos that show how much they really like deer fawns. My wife always thought coyotes were cute. Too many roadrunner cartoons (beep beep). After seeing the pictures now she isn't so sure. Two pics are gruesome. Nature at it's finest. In 20+ years of trail camera use have never photographed one with a turkey. I'm sure they take a poult or two. Coyotes are the optimum opportunist so if they can catch it they'll eat it.
Try and add a coyote/fawn favorite picture. If still having picture problems and I add it to my last post it will white out the thread for me. Let's see. Reduced the picture to 180kb.
YEA! the picture worked. We get a picture or two like this every spring.
Great pics ( in a terrible way), Mr Joey. The deer fawns natural inclination is to hold tight when they're tiny. I think that's good in some ways but maybe not so good when dealing with an intelligent predator. Also when they are the size the pic shows it's not so hard for a coyote or two to virtually run them down. Most likely, size protects older deer in most cases as a grown deer is "usually" too much for a coyote or two. But as stated, I take everyone I can. One to two a year but that is not seriously impacting the population much. I do know personally they are not immune to broadhead tipped arrows.....
It takes a fine hound to kill a 20# coon, I agree 100% on that. He is also killing for sport, a coyote does kill for sport as well but typically is killing for food and opportunity of game.
A coyote will kill possum and skunk. I have seen no evidence of them eating either but have seen fresh evidence in snow of these kills. When we first started getting a sustainable population of coyotes here we still had red fox. Red fox are fun to trap, a coyote will shred every red fox he finds in a trap. He doesn't eat them, just kills.
A coyote can easily kill a kitten or yearling coon, he may get some serious battle scares from those 20#ers.
Do coyotes kill turkeys? Absolutely! Like any predator they are opportunistic and will take advantage of an opportunity. Do the target turkeys regularly? I've never seen evidence of it. Although I do enjoy hunting coyotes and will take one out when I get the chance, I don't share the hatred for them that many hunters have. I fell that nest raiders do far more harm than coyotes do. But I also don't share the hate for them. These animals coexisted long before we showed up and decided which ones we wanted to value and which ones we wanted to slaughter!! I hold all of them important in the grander sense and would hate to see any of them gone.
Agree , Farmboy 27 , I have always respected all predators , Have also taken some and will take some more , the hunter hunting the hunter . I believe they are important and would never wish their demise ,
Quote from: joey46 on August 06, 2023, 06:09:46 AM
Try and add a coyote/fawn favorite picture. If still having picture problems and I add it to my last post it will white out the thread for me. Let's see. Reduced the picture to 180kb.
But.....but..... they only eat berries and field mice. Morons.
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Egg stealers/ nest raiders do way more damage than coyotes. The coyote is an opportunistic hunter but their success rate on mature turkeys is low. I would rather take 1 egg stealer than 5 coyotes if you are protecting turkeys specifically. Z
Will try one more coyote picture that is the companion to the one posted a few post earlier. Hope you will be able to see that this one coyote obviously called for the drumstick. This property does have a steady deer population so they don't get them all. I have plenty of coyote pictures so expect a few more at times. Never see a mangy one.
I agree we should not decimate these predator populations to the point of extinction, as they play a role. But, consider the major loss of habitat, which equates to less available habitat for them to co-exist, and in the case of turkeys a lot of subpar habitat for brooding and nesting. My eyes tell me we have more coyotes, coons, and possums than I can ever remember. Bobcats and gray fox I can't say, but we are loaded with both right now. Trapping was previously much more prevalent than it's been over the last couple of decades or so. We need more removal than we have right now, in my opinion.
In Arkansas baiting is legal for deer, the majority of the year in CWD zones. Maybe it's year round in other counties, I'm not sure. But, a ton of corn, etc. being fed. I've seen pictures of 10-12 coons at one feeder, at the same time. I think a balanced approach with removal is best and can see where an unbalanced approach could be counterproductive. But, I think a continual and steady removal just keeps them in check, as they keep filling in, and at the rate of trapping/removal right now we won't decimate the populations. Not enough people doing it.
Last year was the first year I dedicated a full 60 consecutive days of trapping. A friend and I had access to some timber company leases for January and February. I was surprised at what we caught within basically two trap lines, in two generally small areas square mileage wise. A good balanced mix. We could have (and should have) removed more coons, so we will target those a little harder this winter.
I think each area is unique, so it's difficult for a biologist or anyone to say it's a waste of time. For turkeys some argue don't waste your time, focus on habitat. I agree it's #1 priority, probably by a long shot, but think it's a mistake to completely discredit predator removal. I've heard it said if it's less than perfect habitat you are wasting time, and if it's perfect habitat you don't need to remove predators. With that I disagree. In Arkansas, we have never had perfect habitat in a lot of places, but adequate enough to support thriving turkey populations in the past.
As far as coyotes, our populations have exploded over the last 20+ years. You will never decimate them, but they need thinned out. Coon hunting has made a little comeback, but not to the level it was in the 70s and 80s, and a lot of those now shoot a lower percentage of treed coons, just in talking to a few.
I used to kill every coyote I could shoot. Now I'm not, as they are good at reducing ground hog populations. I hate the groundhogs more than the coyotes from an agricultural perspective. Since I rely on agriculture for my profession, groundhog control is more important. I trap or shoot as many groundhogs as I can.
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Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on August 24, 2023, 10:57:26 AM
I used to kill every coyote I could shoot. Now I'm not, as they are good at reducing ground hog populations. I hate the groundhogs more than the coyotes from an agricultural perspective. Since I rely on agriculture for my profession, groundhog control is more important. I trap or shoot as many groundhogs as I can.
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Absolutely spot on!! Coyotes and fox are excellent groundhog control!! I actually know several farmers who allow deer and turkey hunting on their property but will not allow fox or coyotes to be killed.