How many on here are following closely?
Ain't missed an episode. One of the best podcasts out there!
Agree! Hope more on here are listening. I think some of the answers to some of the complaints are starting to trickle out. Hopefully we can discuss as more people respond.
I think it's great!!
I've listened to most. Behind on a couple. But, it's a great podcast. I have enjoyed, and appreciate, a few guest biologists not labeling predator removal as a waste of time and energy, as some do. But, rather say it can play a role and that it is specific to the property, not a blanket answer.
That's one that I haven't listened to yet, but with predators, I feel like every one that I take out could save a deer or turkey. Do I think it's the golden ticket. Not at all, but we half heartedly do it on our place. It honestly takes more time than I have, but I am slowly letting my 8 and 10 year old boys trap with the dog proofs and they are pretty decent at it.
Shiloh, that's the spirit! I don't believe that predator control is the only answer either but it is one of the few that individuals can undertake that certainly doesn't hurt. Raccoons, possums, coyotes etc aren't going anywhere because of trapping- I just believe that if I can save, " just one nest" per year that helps...
I was kind of surprised to hear one of the leading biologists say that he thought cats and coyotes should be at the top of the list. What he said makes sense. If the hen gets caught and killed it won't matter if the egg suckers are there or not. I never thought cats would be a major threat to turkeys until I found a big, mature gobbler covered up on the edge of one of my fields. Big bobcat apparently caught him strutting and not watching his backside. Got a pic of the cat coming back to the carcass, but I never could catch him.
I listen to every episode. I don't follow very many podcasts, on any subject, but this is one of them.
Best podcast out there. Very interested to hear each episode and how down to earth both guys are. It has really gotten me geared up to start putting more emphasis on my turkey habitat, even on my small acreage place.
I would stand to benefit from this thought, so I admit it is fairly selfish even thought I personally don't really want any help, but I have been extremely interested in the habitat part of their discussions as well. Would some of the nonprofit's money be best used to help private landowners with habitat projects? 90% of the property in my home state is private, so the turkey's future lies with the private landowners.
Quote from: El Pavo Grande on July 30, 2023, 01:11:16 AM
...appreciate a few guest biologists not labeling predator removal as a waste of time and energy, as some do. But, rather say it can play a role and that it is specific to the property, not a blanket answer.
This
^^^ (although we are admittedly wandering off-topic, but what-the-hey)
Predator types and densities, and in relation to habitat quality and type, can suppress turkey populations. Full. Stop. It is counterintuitive for anybody, regardless of their wildlife background and experience, to suggest otherwise. But predator control, in itself, as EPG states, is not THE blanket answer (stating the obvious here, but we are in the "off-season").
On the other hand, there are no doubt instances where predator control...with that control based on targeting the real culprits impacting specific turkey populations...can make a big difference in both reproductive success as well as protecting a dwindling adult turkey population that is essential for initiating that reproductive success.
...And although I understand that this particular discussion does not revolve around the human predator, at some point we, as hunters, have to recognize that WE also fall into that second category...protecting that adult turkey population. There is becoming more and more evidence that protecting turkey populations from predation must include a reduction of mortality caused by US. Any discussion of predator control has to include our impacts, as well. Some folks seem to think that we can be excluded in the predator discussion. In reality, we cannot.
I found the subject discussed about predation being coincidental in that if you kill all the predators most of the polts would still die because the habitat is not there to support them pretty interesting. Seems if there is good polt rearing habitat predator control can have pretty dramatic results. If the habitat sucks predator control will be futile as the polts fresh out of the egg will succumb to the elements, starve, or a combination of both whether there are predators or not. Based on their discussions it appears most of the habitat sucks.
Quote from: Shiloh on July 31, 2023, 08:59:03 AM
I would stand to benefit from this thought, so I admit it is fairly selfish even thought I personally don't really want any help, but I have been extremely interested in the habitat part of their discussions as well. Would some of the nonprofit's money be best used to help private landowners with habitat projects? 90% of the property in my home state is private, so the turkey's future lies with the private landowners.
As an at-one-time head of a committee that rationed Superfund dollars in this state, we had this discussion on a number of occasions. Our general sentiment was that any funds raised through "public events", or otherwise supported by what would be considered to be "public dollars" should have discernable and well-defined benefits to that public. (An example might be where a public area could be shown to have clear benefits by spending dollars on an adjacent private property)
On the other hand, if the people who are contributing dollars to a cause understand that their dollars are going to be spent in a way that does not benefit them in some general sense...and they agree to that...then that's up to them. However, you better make sure they understand where the money is going and why (i.e....how they are going to benefit from it). Not doing that is a sure-fire way to quickly loose public support...and your funding base. In addition, the legality of such expenditures might come into question at some point, as well.
Good thoughts. Communication is key. One thing about private landowners is that so many of them are not in the turkey game so they sure aren't going to be willing to work on brood rearing areas that would benefit turkeys and quail. I would think since so many deer hunt you might be able to work from the angle of creating or nurturing forb patches/brood patches that would be great for summertime deer and quail/turkeys.
A lot of this is education and turning the tide from years of the same ol same ol routine. I have just started paying attention to some of this and it has perked my interest a great deal. I think it is going to take a lot of time to make the change, but what I have learned has been from watching youtube videos and listening to these podcasts, so that is one good thing that is coming out of the social media maybe.
Quote from: Shiloh on July 31, 2023, 08:59:03 AM
I would stand to benefit from this thought, so I admit it is fairly selfish even thought I personally don't really want any help, but I have been extremely interested in the habitat part of their discussions as well. Would some of the nonprofit's money be best used to help private landowners with habitat projects? 90% of the property in my home state is private, so the turkey's future lies with the private landowners.
One thing that comes to mind could be a cost-share program for creating/maintaining brood habitat since that is often a limiting factor. Similar to the Fire on the Forty cost share program the Miss. Dept. of Wildlife has for prescribed fire. I know NWTF contributes about $10k/yr to that program. Management practices such as herbicide/injection work, mulching, maintenance of old field habitat (or conversion of land to old field habitat), and of course prescribed fire. There'd have to be some accountability and ground truthing to be sure landowners are doing what they are supposed to be to get reimbursed. I could definitely get behind a program like that.
There are a number of federal and state cost share programs already in place that if used properly could greatly enhance polt rearing habitat. The big problem is many aren't aware they are available to them and the ones that are don't want to deal with bureaucratic nightmare that comes along with getting enrolled.
Paul I would be curious to know more about what you are referring to. if it is NRCS programs then I understand those, but if something else I'd be curious.
DH88 I think you are onto something, and I agree that you would have to have some controls in place to make sure that the work was getting done. To many people abuse programs like that as we all know.
I hope to be meeting soon with one of the biologists that you probably know to help me figure out some of the old field stuff. I think he lives up closer to you than me.
Quote from: Shiloh on August 01, 2023, 08:55:12 AM
Paul I would be curious to know more about what you are referring to. if it is NRCS programs then I understand those, but if something else I'd be curious.
DH88 I think you are onto something, and I agree that you would have to have some controls in place to make sure that the work was getting done. To many people abuse programs like that as we all know.
I hope to be meeting soon with one of the biologists that you probably know to help me figure out some of the old field stuff. I think he lives up closer to you than me.
The NRCS has a number of programs available, you may also want to check into the USFWS for possible incentives for endangered species. Although turkeys aren't endangered it may be plausible for a landowner to restore habitat for endangered ground nesting birds that can have positive effects for turkeys as well.
To expand on deerhunt1988's post. I think it would be nice to have an association that would help landowners navigate/jump through the hoops that come along with trying to enroll in these gov't programs.
Well there are some out there Paul, but they get 10% of what the gov't gives the landowner. Pretty decent business model it seems and the landowners are happy to not have to wade through the bureaucracy and red tape!!
Right. But it would be nice if there was a non profit organization specific to turkeys that would do the same thing.