We have just lost our lease and I think it is probably time to bite the bullet and purchase some land for the family and for hunting. Hunting would be mainly deer and turkey (focus on turkey) in my area. Having never inherited or purchased land for hunting, I am looking for input on the "perfect tract". Hoping to buy about 200-250 acres. If you could design your own property, what would be on it? What percentage of pines versus hardwoods? What percentage in fields/food plots. Lake or no lake. Larger lake or multiple smaller lakes. Creek? Do you look for large acreage owners around you or smaller? Any input on what you think would make an ideal spot would be welcome.
Needless to say, it would have to have deer and turkey.
Neighbors is the first thing I look at. If they don't share similar goals then move on. I have great neighbors and some of it won't change in my lifetime. Nothing worse than buying your ideal place, but neighbor problems keep you from enjoying it.
I'd love to have a large pond. Place just came up I would love to have, has a pond ducks and geese like. 170 acres of pasture with a pond on it is $4100/acre for a cool $697k. There isn't a tree on the entire 170 and they hay it currently.
Quote from: Notsoyoungturk on May 13, 2023, 06:28:32 PM
We have just lost our lease and I think it is probably time to bite the bullet and purchase some land for the family and for hunting. Hunting would be mainly deer and turkey (focus on turkey) in my area. Having never inherited or purchased land for hunting, I am looking for input on the "perfect tract". Hoping to buy about 200-250 acres. If you could design your own property, what would be on it? What percentage of pines versus hardwoods? What percentage in fields/food plots. Lake or no lake. Larger lake or multiple smaller lakes. Creek? Do you look for large acreage owners around you or smaller? Any input on what you think would make an ideal spot would be welcome.
Needless to say, it would have to have deer and turkey.
So much needed to really answer your question, but maybe I can give some help in a paragraph or two. I would be good with a breakdown anywhere from 30-50 percent of the property being in some stage of pine growth, and the rest in hardwoods. You can then keep that percentage of pine timber at different stages to help all forms of critters on your land. Cover and bedding and good Brouse is everything in my experience, but turkeys and deer love hardwoods as well. I personally would rather have a year round creek running through the property even though the majority of the land we have/had has multiple lakes on it. Multiple water sources though are never a negative. If you are thinking about making a lake on a piece of property that presently has no water, keep in mind the expense as it can many times be a big one.
I personally from experience prefer a piece of land surrounded by one or two larger tracts (the larger the better). Ideal for me, is to be sitting almost in the middle of the whole property (all owners combined), and we have a great piece in the Carolina's just like that. In that situation, where you are surrounded by good larger tracts of land owned by others, you can also get away with a much smaller tract of land, so don't ignore a tract of say 30-100 acres or something much smaller than your proposed thinking of maybe buying 200 plus acres. I make that point to remind you that you might can find a tract like that and save a pile of money by buying less acreage. All depends on what surrounds it. On the other hand, if you can find a tract bordered by several smaller tracts and they do not hunt or make much traffic in their woods, you may also have a gold mine to utilize that to your benefit. Really depends on where the land is, and if all the elements needed are present on that land more so than just how big or small the tract of land is. So, you can look at it both ways as far as going bigger or smaller in acreage.
Lastly, if you buy say 200 acres, I suggest that you do not burn the whole 200 acres at one time. I am shocked to see folks do such as that often. On a smaller tract especially, you need to do things in stages and I would only burn real small areas of such a tract at one time. If you manage your pine timber well, you can often keep pretty decent cover for deer and turkeys (nesting) at all times while still enjoying the benefits of good hardwoods. For example, if you have a 40 acre block of pine timber isolated inside a 250 acre tract, many will feel like they need to cut the whole 40 acres, but often the smarter move is to cut even that isolated 40 acres in stages to keep good cover at all times. At times, a better approach might be to cut 10 acres of that 40 acre tract every 3-5 years until it is all cut. And keep in mind, thinning can at times be a better route than clear cut. With several tracts of pine timber inside of a larger 200-300 acre tract, with that mindset you can do wonders as far always having the proper cover, brouse, and bedding/nesting. There is so much more to it, but these things ought to help you in some form or fashion.
I like mountainhunter1's post. I bought a property in Virginia that didn't look like it had a lot of potential until I really studied it and the surrounding area. It has big woods to the north and south. My acreage is a natural funnel that connects the two and really the only passageway for wildlife to get from one side to the other and feel unseen doing so. What I looked for in my search was natural ecosystem landscape. Not sure if that's a totally accurate characterization but my bullet points were hills, hardwoods, pines, creek or water source. Most all tracts have flatland. Over time you can plant or make improvements to that type zone but having water was a must have with deer and turkey being my main driver. What sold me was the neighbors. Some have cattle. Some grow corn and beans. There is thick untouched bedding area to the east and almost zero hunting pressure.
When you find something that catches your attention, give it a 30,000 foot view... and make sure you have some type established creek.
My little 30 acre homesite butts up against several thousand acres of timber company land. There are deer hunting leases on it and although an occasional turkey is seen, it will likely never be huntable for turkey. But there are several nice bucks using it every year and since I have planted, they are coming more often. I don't deer hunt but family has taken a few nice bucks. Bears like it too and so far, no hogs! It has hardwood in one corner. If it was a larger size, it could be groomed for turkey as well since it has some hardwood where we have had birds roosting. In my area, water is a mist.
A 300 acre tract I had permission on was cut in half by a year round creek. It held nice deer and I turkey hunted it for years. Was always good for a gobbler or two-five minutes from my office so I could hunt and then go to work. Neighbor to the north started killing birds in the fall (probably over corn) and it has stopped holding birds. Neighbors are important like someone else said.
It matters where your looking to buy land at. Up here North of you people consider pine trees just another useless weed, well almost. We are all hardwood and high grade timber. In our area any piece of land that has harvestable timber is grabbed by timber companies soon as it's on the market. The good part of that is after they cut the timber they sell the land a little cheaper. Some leave it wrecked and some leave a managable woods. Occassionally a mature woods comes up that landowners want to sell to someone who will care for it, but the prices of such land has skyrocketed. For example we farmed and worked a piece of land (170 acres) that sold for $40,000.00 30 years ago and just sold for over 400,000.00 with minimum timber value. I wish someone like you could have gotten it, it is full of deer and turkey. Now a developer purchased it and has surveyed it all into lots for developement....this is what is happening to our turkey habitat. I have kicked myself a thousand times, because it was offered to me for $40,000.00 30 years ago and I thought it was too big a financial plunge at the time....arrgggg. Go get some land and preserve it, I respect you for that. You will never regret it. My family has acquired approximately 1200 acres over the decades and managed it well. It is the envy of our area. We need more landowners that care for our land and not just profit.
1) neighbors. Leases turn over and you never know what you are going to get. I've been blessed with a likeminded landowner on one side and a long term timber company lease on the other. We all collaborate and it helps a lot
2) food, water, cover. Habitat diversity matters
3) shape of property matters. My 350 acres is a blob (for lack of a better term) and 80pct of my border is stream. So the borders are very natural and obvious and every inch of the property is usable
4) keep maintenance in mind. I've got about 20 acres of food plots. That's a lot to maintain. Not to mention firebreaks, keeping pond stocked, the constant battle with beavers, etc. I call it "8 months of maintenance for 4 months of hunting". And I love every minute of it
Hope this helps. I've owned my 350 acres an hour from home since late 2011. It's been a great thing. I keep equipment on site and have a 500 square foot bunk room so we can stay there occasionally. But it's only an hour from home
If you can get a deal buy it. If nothing use it as an investment tool to flip and work towards the piece of ground you actually want.
I bought my piece of hunting paradise around 1990. Not sure of the percentages, but it is mostly mature hardwoods with a couple 1-2 acre food plots. Surrounded by over 10,000 acres divided amongst 3 landowners. They all practice timber/wildlife management, limited hunting. Loaded with deer, turkeys, and now unfortunately hogs. But the hogs do provide a lot of summertime fun for kids etc. plus that helps keep the number on my property manageable. At the time I thought man this is a big investment at $325 an acre. I'm glad I bit the bullet and made the purchase. Now I wouldn't take ten times that for it. My advice would be if you can swing it, buy it, even it's not the perfect piece. As Gooserbat eluded to, you can always sell and trade up when something better comes along.
Hoping to buy mine piece of heaven on earth this year before fall
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I am in land sales (agent) but also a very big hunter in South Carolina.
All good points here the neighbors are the biggest factor for any mid range to small tract. Finding a tract that holds deer and turkeys in the southern states is getting harder (pine plantations). It is fine to be very picky on an investment like this but also be practical. The fact of the matter is everyone has access to internet now and knows roughly what land is worth. You really won't find a "good deal" especially on the market. If you find a tract that checks all the boxes and can afford it i suggest jumping on it. it won't be around long if its a good tract and someone will out bid you.
something interesting to think about is like government owned land. The ideal situation would be to be surrounded by un-huntable land like a preserve or some manufacturing facility. Just a thought not sure if it is applicable.
Great thoughts. I appreciate each you taking the time to share your information and experiences. Going to look at a couple of pieces today. Can't seem find the one that ticks all the boxes but hoping one will be close enough to pull the trigger. It is a big investment and I am just trying to avoid analysis paralysis.
I own land, you want some of it to have a timber value, you want open areas and you want good road access. Remember you will have yearly taxes and up keep on the land which could include owning a tractor and equipment. Owning your own land isn't cheap regardless... Also you will need to decide what classification you want the land placed in to define your tax rate ... like my land is defined as the Green Belt ... which helps in saving me on my tax rate ... the Green Belt is mostly for wildlife habitat etc.... lots to consider in owning your land ... in my opinion lease is better sometimes ... as you get older it gets harder to find people willing to help with food plots and upkeep... Equipment maintenance and just trying to keep people from stealing from you all the time if you don't live on the land or farm... It can be a headache sometimes, because you have to remember you will only use it for a short period of time each year. The rest of the year you can drive around looking at the same fields and woods and wildlife... LOL.... IMO.... Don't forget the problems you will also have with people who live out in the country next to your land and have a yard full of dogs, you will have to deal with these problems also... Again lots to consider .... IMO....
Quote from: Burtwill on May 15, 2023, 09:08:48 AM
something interesting to think about is like government owned land. The ideal situation would be to be surrounded by un-huntable land like a preserve or some manufacturing facility. Just a thought not sure if it is applicable.
Great advice and this type setting occurs more often than one might think. Friend of mine has several hundred acres that backs up to a river and is surrounded on a couple of sides by a large manufacturing facility with BIG acreage that is unhunt able - and lets just say he has a paradise with his situation.
Years ago, we had a small 100 acre tract of land that was sitting inside of a well known quail/deer hunting Plantation which was around 8,000 acres. You would not believe what we killed off that small tract of land over the years.
If you can find the right piece of land, you won't even need 250 acres - in the right spot, you can get by with a much smaller tract and save a ton of money. Go to the courthouse and look for tracts as described and you may find your dream property.
I would echo what has been said and tell you to look for the most diverse tract that you can find. If you are in heavy pine country do not be afraid of an all pine tract. People are starting to understand that pines are some of the most manageable tracts that there can be for wildlife due to the ability to manage the timber and use fire.
It is not really part of your question, but let me humbly offer you one more vital tip that has helped us time and time again over the years. Whatever piece of land that you buy, set a side a part of it as a sanctuary inside of the overall tract itself - preferably in the middle of the piece of whatever property that you buy. What I mean by sanctuary, is that you do not go into this part of the property period. We would make it off limits. No scouting, hiking, or hunting, - no nothing. Not so critical for turkey hunting, but darn important for deer hunting success. Even on small tracts that we had that were like only 30-50 acres, we would always do this (the sanctuary might only be ten acres or there about), and one might laugh upon hearing this suggested, but man it really makes a difference to the deer when they know they are always safe and unmolested in that location. For this to work, the property still has to have all the needed key elements, such as cover, water and food. But if you have those things, and establish a sanctuary within it, it just takes the potential of that land to a whole another level.
Quote from: mountainhunter1 on May 15, 2023, 01:23:12 PM
It is not really part of your question, but let me humbly offer you one more vital tip that has helped us time and time again over the years. Whatever piece of land that you buy, set a side a part of it as a sanctuary inside of the overall tract itself - preferably in the middle of the piece of whatever property that you buy. What I mean by sanctuary, is that you do not go into this part of the property period. We would make it off limits. No scouting, hiking, or hunting, - no nothing. Not so critical for turkey hunting, but darn important for deer hunting success. Even on small tracts that we had that were like only 30-50 acres, we would always do this (the sanctuary might only be ten acres or there about), and one might laugh upon hearing this suggested, but man it really makes a difference to the deer when they know they are always safe and unmolested in that location. For this to work, the property still has to have all the needed key elements, such as cover, water and food. But if you have those things, and establish a sanctuary within it, it just takes the potential of that land to a whole another level.
You are spot on. We make the area around our house (which sets in the woods) off limits to hunting. It's an area of about 7 acres and soon as the guns start cracking the deer move in and stay. My wife puts out corn for them and they bed, eat and drink in our pond without leaving until everything calms down again. This year we had 11 staying in the sanctuary, three bucks. I even pissed off the neighbor when he asked to shoot one and I said no, that's a safe zone. It matters more than you think.
Quote from: eggshell on May 15, 2023, 07:32:12 PM
Quote from: mountainhunter1 on May 15, 2023, 01:23:12 PM
It is not really part of your question, but let me humbly offer you one more vital tip that has helped us time and time again over the years. Whatever piece of land that you buy, set a side a part of it as a sanctuary inside of the overall tract itself - preferably in the middle of the piece of whatever property that you buy. What I mean by sanctuary, is that you do not go into this part of the property period. We would make it off limits. No scouting, hiking, or hunting, - no nothing. Not so critical for turkey hunting, but darn important for deer hunting success. Even on small tracts that we had that were like only 30-50 acres, we would always do this (the sanctuary might only be ten acres or there about), and one might laugh upon hearing this suggested, but man it really makes a difference to the deer when they know they are always safe and unmolested in that location. For this to work, the property still has to have all the needed key elements, such as cover, water and food. But if you have those things, and establish a sanctuary within it, it just takes the potential of that land to a whole another level.
You are spot on. We make the area around our house (which sets in the woods) off limits to hunting. It's an area of about 7 acres and soon as the guns start cracking the deer move in and stay. My wife puts out corn for them and they bed, eat and drink in our pond without leaving until everything calms down again. This year we had 11 staying in the sanctuary, three bucks. I even pissed off the neighbor when he asked to shoot one and I said no, that's a safe zone. It matters more than you think.
My Father got us to doing that back in the 1980's. When we first started, I was a bit skeptical that it would make much difference to set aside such small acreage of 5, 10 or 20 to 30 acres as off limits, but that it did make a huge difference is a total understatement. I learned really quick, the deer knew where that sanctuary was even better than we as the owner of the property did. It works, and if anyone is not doing that on their land, I would humbly suggest that they start.
Our 30 acres is behind our old house. The house are maybe 150 yards apart and there is a 75 yard buffer of thick volunteer pine and scrub. While the roofer was putting the roof on (there were a few of us on the ground and 3 on the roof) I heard him say "Holy Sh**". He pointed to that strip and said there is a monster buck bedded down. This was like 9AM and they had been working for an hour. Another of the guys up top were looking at him too. We could not see him and were maybe 50 or so yards from him. He said the deer got up and just stayed in that little strip and moved away.
Some really good advice given...
Neighbors is huge.
Set aside as a safe zone is extremely beneficial on our duck club.
Were I to have the money to purchase a tract of land big enough for me to hunt turkey, deer, and quail, I would either be looking at a known piece of land that I knew held game, or... I would consider hiring a biologist to help me pick a potential area that would hold the game you are looking to hunt that could be easily managed for game.
As I do not have nearly the funds to purchase a property large enough to hunt the game I would be interested in, I might look to do something similar to purchasing into a duck club.
I am in a duck club, and when you purchase a membership, it is basically a cooperation. Mine has 12 members with about 360 acres of marsh. I am an "owner-member" which means we all pay yearly dues and have responsibilities to keep the club running. We vote on the money spent, habitat improvement, etc., and the cost is shared in the means of yearly dues. Hunt days, guest privileges, closed zones, habitat improvement is all voted on.
The tremendous benefit with having multiple member/owners is shared cost of money and time. Even were I to be able to afford to purchase the whole property, I would not be able to afford maintanence, nor have the time to make sure everything was done correctly.
Instead of purchasing 500 acres for instance, 10 (like-minded) people could purchase 5000 acres.
The HUGE downside, is the more people, the more rules necessary to make things run smoothly... And, things will be voted on or against that you strongly disagree with.
Good hunting land isn't cheap.... IMO....
I am not opposed to an equity club like you talk about above. I was in one for 10 years and I think it can be an excellent option. On the other hand it can be a train wreck. I would suggest moving slow and doing your homework.
The right 20 acres is better than the wrong 500 acres
You can lease hunting rights... You can own or buy mineral or water rights to property... I have wondered about purchasing and owning hunting rights?
I would think that you could purchase the hunting rights to a good piece of the right property for a fraction of what you would pay to purchase the land itself? Those rights would be owned and passed on just as mineral or water rights would.
You'd have to have a savvy attorney, and a savvy realtor.
Purchasing enough land to kill turkeys consistently is tough financially. Lands is so expensive now it's nearly impossible to afford 5-600 acres.
Quote from: arkrem870 on May 17, 2023, 07:46:11 AM
Purchasing enough land to kill turkeys consistently is tough financially. Lands is so expensive now it's nearly impossible to afford 5-600 acres.
I was thinking along this same line. Obviously, is someone is financially able to afford purchasing enough land,...and with the right conditions and habitat to be feasible as a viable hunting option,...then I could understand the desire (I wonder how many of us here fit that description?...) . In addition, the idea of a purchase of this sort being an investment opportunity should certainly be considered.
However, in my own mind, I find myself asking whether buying (or leasing) land for something as specific as having a place to go hunting would be more expensive (and more of a long-term burden) than just finding property owners/outfitters and paying to hunt. For the price of buying a sizeable piece of land for the sole purpose of having a place to hunt, it seems to me that a guy could go on a lot of paid hunts around the country and still come out far ahead,...and with not nearly the amount of headaches. ...Then again, perhaps my reasoning is in error, but I would most definitely be evaluating all the factors (including other financial considerations in my life that might be more important) in making such a decision. ;D
Carry on....
Quote from: GobbleNut on May 17, 2023, 09:05:33 AM
Quote from: arkrem870 on May 17, 2023, 07:46:11 AM
Purchasing enough land to kill turkeys consistently is tough financially. Lands is so expensive now it's nearly impossible to afford 5-600 acres.
I was thinking along this same line. Obviously, is someone is financially able to afford purchasing enough land,...and with the right conditions and habitat to be feasible as a viable hunting option,...then I could understand the desire (I wonder how many of us here fit that description?...) . In addition, the idea of a purchase of this sort being an investment opportunity should certainly be considered.
However, in my own mind, I find myself asking whether buying (or leasing) land for something as specific as having a place to go hunting would be more expensive (and more of a long-term burden) than just finding property owners/outfitters and paying to hunt. For the price of buying a sizeable piece of land for the sole purpose of having a place to hunt, it seems to me that a guy could go on a lot of paid hunts around the country and still come out far ahead,...and with not nearly the amount of headaches. ...Then again, perhaps my reasoning is in error, but I would most definitely be evaluating all the factors (including other financial considerations in my life that might be more important) in making such a decision. ;D
Carry on....
Jim,
Private land use for hunting for daily trips has gone up considerably, and will continue to do so.
Before I was married, I bought into my duck club for $30K... Cost for my membership currently is $120K. Were I to have put that same money into good investments, it could be upwards of $240K (figuring a good investor doubles every 6 years or so).
But... I probably would not opt into a similar club at the current cost... So it was a better investment than leasing. I considered it a recreational investment. I still hold equity, and were times to turn hard, I still own and could get that equity.
As the population grows, and less land is available to hunt, the cost of hunting private lands will dramatically increase, with far less opportunity to hunt public lands... Hunting is well on its way to becoming an elitist activity.
As I posed above, I wonder about the opportunity to purchase (and own) the hunting rights only... For instance, a large cattle ranch that goes for $25mil... Maybe hunting/fishing rights go for maybe $1mil? $25 mil is not attainble for the likes of myself, but $1mil could be in a group/coorperation setting.
Not sure if it is feasable, but were I looking to buy into something, it is an inquirey I would be making on attractive large tracts of land. Were the deal to go through, I would also spend the money for a very good attorney to set it up (and make sure my investment is protected). Land owner basically gets a good sum of money for doing absolutely nothing.
Neither the cost or the opportunities for hunting are likely to improve in the coming years. Having equity in something that cannot be taken away could be a generational investment... Which would of course become worthless if hunting were ever done away with.
""As the population grows, and less land is available to hunt, the cost of hunting private lands will dramatically increase, with far less opportunity to hunt public lands... Hunting is well on its way to becoming an elitist activity""
This ^ You either hunt in the public land $hit show .. which will no doubt continue to get worse each year, or pony up big $$$ to hunt private.
Quote from: kytrkyhntr on May 16, 2023, 03:59:57 PM
The right 20 acres is better than the wrong 500 acres
This is the truth. I stumbled into the right 35 acres. I've owned the property since 2013 and I have bow hunted since 2016. I've got 2 deer over 160 (one like 161 and the other mid 160s). Several over 130. When turkeys existed here I routinely could fill 2 tags by calling them off the closed to hunting neighbors onto my place. I've built a pond to hunt waterfowl. I've usually got a covey or two of quail. That said it takes alot of work. I have removed thousands of trees, restored native grass, planted back native wildlife friendly trees, etc. Its definitely a labor of love.