I will throw this out there again, why not let everyone hunt out of state wherever they want on public land and as often as they want until they kill a bird in any of the states on public land? They then take a year off from just that one state(s) where they killed a bird the year before. But they can still hunt the other 40 something states that they did not kill a Tom in the previous year the next season.
For example, if a hunter travels out of state to Tennessee, Alabama and North Carolina and kills a Tom on public land in all three of those states, they then next year can still travel and hunt out of state, but those three states listed above will be off the list for them just for one season. They would still have dozens of states that they could go and hunt the next spring season, and the year after that, those three states they killed on public previously are back in the mix for them.
There would have to be a loophole for out of state residents who pay property taxes in multiple states, as I do not think that you can fairly take their tax money and yet not let them participate as the rest of the taxpayers in that said state. If a person is on a lease out of state, they could still be allowed to come and hunt that lease, but they would not be able to hunt public for twelve months in that same state if they killed a bird on public land in that same state the previous season.
The good thing about this, no one is losing privileges long term which is the concern of many. I am not opposed to out of state hunting personally, and all this idea would do is slow the killing rate of the hunters going from state to state without taking anyone's rights away permanently which to me is contrary to what America was intended to be. The out of state hunter just won't kill as many turkeys in any one state as they were previously, but yet they can still enjoy hunting all across the country each year just the same since we have so many states and plenty of public land.
No way in hades. Who is going to keep up with all that. I can answer that no one.
Quote from: Louisiana Longbeard on April 27, 2023, 04:45:10 PM
No way in hades. Who is going to keep up with all that. I can answer that no one.
Our computers are so advanced today, what would be hard about it? If a person checks a bird out on public is said state, their information is flagged on the computer and their license would print out the following spring showing them ineligible to hunt on public for one season in that certain state. The only way a person could get around that would be to not check their bird out when they killed it, but that is a whole another issue.
Fantasy Land.
Quote from: mountainhunter1 on April 27, 2023, 04:50:21 PM
Quote from: Louisiana Longbeard on April 27, 2023, 04:45:10 PM
No way in hades. Who is going to keep up with all that. I can answer that no one.
Our computers are so advanced today, what would be hard about it? If a person checks a bird out on public is said state, their information is flagged on the computer and their license would print out the following spring showing them ineligible to hunt on public for one season in that certain state. The only way a person could get around that would be to not check their bird out when they killed it, but that is a whole another issue.
No way this will ever happen for multiple reasons. The first being that all the states are not going to work together.
Quote from: Louisiana Longbeard on April 27, 2023, 04:58:47 PM
Quote from: mountainhunter1 on April 27, 2023, 04:50:21 PM
Quote from: Louisiana Longbeard on April 27, 2023, 04:45:10 PM
No way in hades. Who is going to keep up with all that. I can answer that no one.
Our computers are so advanced today, what would be hard about it? If a person checks a bird out on public is said state, their information is flagged on the computer and their license would print out the following spring showing them ineligible to hunt on public for one season in that certain state. The only way a person could get around that would be to not check their bird out when they killed it, but that is a whole another issue.
No way this will ever happen for multiple reasons. The first being that all the states are not going to work together.
On that, you are probably spot on right. Heck, we cannot even agree who is a man or a woman anymore, so I would say you are correct that the states would not be willing to get together. But the idea I offered is way better than some of the crap I have read the past couple of years.
I am not opposed personally to folks hunting out of state. Take Joey for example who is posting regularly on this subject, he lives in Florida and hunts Kentucky and I think he said Ohio. He said that he also plans to take a trip or two to kill a Rio or Merriam's at some point. What the heck is wrong with that as I may do the same at some point myself? It is America, the land of the free and our best hope is to do a better job preserving the habitat we have set aside for wildlife and predators if we want to hunt Turkeys a generation from now.
I don't really have any concern unless a fellow is traveling and killing 15-25
or more birds a year. Even then, I really don't even want to take away his rights as this is America. But, if we really care about the wild turkey, no one probably needs to shoot 20 turkeys a year at this point (we can probably thank you tube for that). Still, that is likely just a symptom and I say we need to focus more on the cause which is surely more so habitat and predators.
Like I read earlier in a post by Joey, folks could take just 1 bird in a given state. This day and time it's all about TAKE!!!! Seems like there's not a lot of GIVE!!! I know, I know you buy a license and spend your money and time. There's no easy answer(s). But if things don't change this forum very well could be USED TO BE AN OLD GOBBLER.
Have a good one, and May God bless, Bo
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"Soylent Green is People."
It's possible with computerized systems to do what the OP mentions, but it won't fly with hunters. I live an hour from the state line. Why wouldn't I want to go over there to hunt when they are open and my season isn't?
Quote from: runngun on April 27, 2023, 05:57:44 PM
Like I read earlier in a post by Joey, folks could take just 1 bird in a given state. This day and time it's all about TAKE!!!! Seems like there's not a lot of GIVE!!! I know, I know you buy a license and spend your money and time. There's no easy answer(s). But if things don't change this forum very well could be USED TO BE AN OLD GOBBLER.
Have a good one, and May God bless, Bo
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I have heard so much on this subject and was just trying to think how we could find common ground. We are better if we stay together because a house divided cannot stand.
About four years ago, I began to voluntary not fill my last tag and have continued that trend. I have called quite a few up with a camera and no gun. Still pretty fun as the killing is in some ways anticlimactic. But I love to travel, and am not against out of state hunters in general personally, but have not traveled to hunt for a while now just trying to do my part to help the turkey along (But I will go out of state again at some point).
Also trying to get better at taking out predators and much more interested in controlled burns these days than I used to be. I have hope that we will see more and more hunters willing to make some small sacrifices to ensure a bright future for the turkeys of tomorrow.
Creative but you are asking for a federal nation wide system for turkey harvest tracking and really just asking for guys to not report kills.
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States operate INDEPENDENTLY.
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No disrespect intended but I'll bet my life that most guys are already not reporting kills. That is a WASTE of $ to set up and maintain when the dollas are better spent elsewhere. Think about it? Other than telling everybody which county the (reported) birds are being killed ( OSSer's have access to this too),What purpose does it serve? Harvest info? Right. Smoke and mirrors boys- SMOKE and MIRRORs
you can't get uniformity across all states with much of anything......this included. Never gonna happen.
I would say limiting non residents to 1 over the counter turkey tag per year is sufficient. Then depending on the turkey population and harvest stats allow non residents to enter into a state drawing for additional tags.
I think this would be a fair and equitable solution. The states could further only allocate X amount of additional tags to non-residents/residents and even charge a substantial surcharge for that additional tag.
Personally I am completely happy with harvesting 1 bird per trip/state. But I understand that if I'm taking 5-7-9 days of vacation and driving 8-10-12+ hours one way to hunt it would be nice to harvest a 2nd bird if the opportunity presented its self.
Lots of whining about out of state hunters on here!
My state is MD and we can kill 2, which sometimes happens very fast!
Im also close to VA which is allowed 3 birds, and season comes in quite a bite earlier.
I also want to get all 4 subs.
I hunt public land and the best advice I can give it: hunt weekdays, hunt late mornings, and scout hard before any openers.
Population decline is preadtors. That should be common knowledge by now.
We trap 40-50 coons of maybe each 200 acres and it helps, trust me.
This is like the old statement, if ya cant beat em... join em. Its not anyones fault if you have a bunch of kids, your job sucks or you dont get much vacation. Cry me a river LOL.
You think OOS turkey hunting is bad? or hunters are bad? Come to my state that gets POUNDED by Sika deer hunters for no extra $$$ and they are in a small area and its the only place you can shoot them in the WORLD.
Heck with a turkey they are everywhere and relatively easy to kill.
Government regulation nearly always has negative unintended consequences. We need social solutions.
Quote from: DumpTruckTurkey on April 28, 2023, 01:10:15 PM
Lots of whining about out of state hunters on here!
My state is MD and we can kill 2, which sometimes happens very fast!
Im also close to VA which is allowed 3 birds, and season comes in quite a bite earlier.
I also want to get all 4 subs.
I hunt public land and the best advice I can give it: hunt weekdays, hunt late mornings, and scout hard before any openers.
Population decline is preadtors. That should be common knowledge by now.
We trap 40-50 coons of maybe each 200 acres and it helps, trust me.
This is like the old statement, if ya cant beat em... join em. Its not anyones fault if you have a bunch of kids, your job sucks or you dont get much vacation. Cry me a river LOL.
You think OOS turkey hunting is bad? or hunters are bad? Come to my state that gets POUNDED by Sika deer hunters for no extra $$$ and they are in a small area and its the only place you can shoot them in the WORLD.
Heck with a turkey they are everywhere and relatively easy to kill.
I'm in Southern Maryland and wish we had these easy to kill public land birds that you are mentioning! Then again, all our public land areas are pretty small and loaded with people. Totally agree with everything else you said though. Weekdays and late mornings seem to be the key here as well.
This sounds like it would set everybody up for a US slam. Versus them maybe doing there average routine.
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Quote from: howl on April 28, 2023, 03:31:22 PM
Government regulation nearly always has negative unintended consequences. We need social solutions.
X2.
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Quote from: DumpTruckTurkey on April 28, 2023, 01:10:15 PM
Lots of whining about out of state hunters on here!
My state is MD and we can kill 2, which sometimes happens very fast!
Im also close to VA which is allowed 3 birds, and season comes in quite a bite earlier.
I also want to get all 4 subs.
I hunt public land and the best advice I can give it: hunt weekdays, hunt late mornings, and scout hard before any openers.
Population decline is preadtors. That should be common knowledge by now.
We trap 40-50 coons of maybe each 200 acres and it helps, trust me.
This is like the old statement, if ya cant beat em... join em. Its not anyones fault if you have a bunch of kids, your job sucks or you dont get much vacation. Cry me a river LOL.
You think OOS turkey hunting is bad? or hunters are bad? Come to my state that gets POUNDED by Sika deer hunters for no extra $$$ and they are in a small area and its the only place you can shoot them in the WORLD.
Heck with a turkey they are everywhere and relatively easy to kill.
Except the population declines are not just predators. They are a piece of the pie. I truly believe there is something more sinister getting them like disease. I have restored native grass, and I trap heavily for predators (as well as calling predators). The bobwhite quail have responded favorably, however the turkeys have not. In addition, data compiled by the state of Kansas on heavily trapped properties show turkey populations on those properties also declining at the same rate as the rest of the state.
The fact is we can not continue to hunt them like it is 2005. We evolved much faster than the turkeys can. Hunting has always been based on the fact that we are harvesting surplus birds. However many biologists (and non biologists like myself) believe we have crossed over from compensatory to additive mortality. I know many on here would be ecstatic to shoot the last gobbler in the state and due it with a smile on their face, but at some point it has to become more about what the resource can handle and less about what we want.
Maybe if the influencers would quit promoting public land and #49, it would work itself out in time. That would be the most logical start.
Quote from: Louisiana Longbeard on April 27, 2023, 04:45:10 PM
No way in hades. Who is going to keep up with all that. I can answer that no one.
I agree!
A logistical nightmare....
Goverment agencies are notoriously poor at any level of orgaization, and this would be be a costly venture that causes more problems than it creates. I cannot for the life of me, name a single solitary successful government program, and I highly doubt that this would be the first.
Quote from: El Pavo Grande on May 01, 2023, 11:29:27 AM
Maybe if the influencers would quit promoting public land and #49, it would work itself out in time. That would be the most logical start.
But how else would they support their starving families? Or feed their narcissist personality disorders? Can't get the fame they seek otherwise.
And they are more successful at recruiting turkey hunters than anything we've ever seen. More turkey hunters = more turkeys they say. We need all the turkey hunters we can get!
Quote from: mountainhunter1 on April 27, 2023, 04:41:18 PM
I will throw this out there again, why not let everyone hunt out of state wherever they want on public land and as often as they want until they kill a bird in any of the states on public land? They then take a year off from just that one state(s) where they killed a bird the year before. But they can still hunt the other 40 something states that they did not kill a Tom in the previous year the next season.
For example, if a hunter travels out of state to Tennessee, Alabama and North Carolina and kills a Tom on public land in all three of those states, they then next year can still travel and hunt out of state, but those three states listed above will be off the list for them just for one season. They would still have dozens of states that they could go and hunt the next spring season, and the year after that, those three states they killed on public previously are back in the mix for them.
There would have to be a loophole for out of state residents who pay property taxes in multiple states, as I do not think that you can fairly take their tax money and yet not let them participate as the rest of the taxpayers in that said state. If a person is on a lease out of state, they could still be allowed to come and hunt that lease, but they would not be able to hunt public for twelve months in that same state if they killed a bird on public land in that same state the previous season.
The good thing about this, no one is losing privileges long term which is the concern of many. I am not opposed to out of state hunting personally, and all this idea would do is slow the killing rate of the hunters going from state to state without taking anyone's rights away permanently which to me is contrary to what America was intended to be. The out of state hunter just won't kill as many turkeys in any one state as they were previously, but yet they can still enjoy hunting all across the country each year just the same since we have so many states and plenty of public land.
wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. I've no intention on repeating places I've already killed over and over and over . Not to say I would never try some again.... But it would be a while . I love the idea personally . Do I think it would work? Probably not. It would shatter a lot of people who live in border state areas that are used to being game hogs / or simply chose to hunt a border state because they have nothing to hunt where they live . people would lose their minds for sure . But to answer the question , yes I think it's a great idea .
Totally not enforceable. Feel good ideas are just that "feel good". I'm noticing on this thread and the similar one on that other forum that very few are adding their out of state kills to the current harvest threads. Seems a lot of traveling hunters have decided to keep things quiet. Might be a good idea under the current climate of anti non-res hunting.
Quote from: 2flyfish4 on April 28, 2023, 12:44:20 PM
I would say limiting non residents to 1 over the counter turkey tag per year is sufficient. Then depending on the turkey population and harvest stats allow non residents to enter into a state drawing for additional tags.
I think this would be a fair and equitable solution. The states could further only allocate X amount of additional tags to non-residents/residents and even charge a substantial surcharge for that additional tag.
Prefacing my remark with the statement that if we can just solve the nesting success/poult survival problem, a lot of these concerns would be moot,...or at least lessened to some degree.
Having stated that, I agree with your proposal, flyfish. It would seem to me to be the simplest and most equitable solution to providing hunting opportunity for the most folks while at the same time providing some level of protection to the resource. Until the reproduction/survival problem is solved, turkey hunters are going to have to accept that the days of liberal bag limits and unlimited hunting opportunity are over. Full Stop. Period. Mic. Drop.
One way you could possibly do it is break the state up in 3 or 4 different units and only sell a limited number of tags for each unit .. Tennessee for example is broken up in units, so in each of these units you sell a limited number of tags... This way a state can control the number of OOS travelers ...
Soylent Green is PEOPLE. Too many people hunting a limited resource. It is not going to get better.
Eliminate OOS at all cost and the problem is solved. All these OOS comments have become self-serving and silly. I, having completed a FL season on 4/23, may go north for a second hunt. No longer worth posting details or results. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Add - after years of wishing and planning finally hit a western state last May. Does that mean I must hunt 40+ other states before returning to this one ? Get real. A one bird limit in ANY state would solve most concerned. A resident limit over two is a political cave in.
Quote from: joey46 on May 02, 2023, 10:51:45 AM
Eliminate OOS at all cost and the problem is solved. All these OOS comments have become self-serving and silly. I, having completed a FL season on 4/23, may go north for a second hunt. No longer worth posting details or results. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Add - after years of wishing and planning finally hit a western state last May. Does that mean I must hunt 40+ other states before returning to this one ? Get real. A one bird limit in ANY state would solve most concerned. A resident limit over two is a political cave in.
Again, I really do not care if you or anyone else hunts every state in the Union each year except for one thing - the wild turkey is in trouble. There is just so much disagreement about this that I simply offered a somewhat reasonable idea which would work easily if the states had any common sense whatsoever and would work together (working together with each state is really the only way to resolve this at this point anyway if we desire to save the Wild Turkey). But some of the responders are absolutely correct, that is the last thing that the states will probably do - which is to work together.
But my idea did not say that you had to hunt 40+ states before returning to the one you started with. What was suggested was that if you killed a bird in said state this year, you would not be able to hunt said state the following season, but could resume it again the year after. But that being said, if you wanted to hunt 40+ states in the meantime while you took a year off on the state or states you killed in last season under that proposal, then I would encourage you to knock yourself.
But I am totally against eliminating out of state hunting at all cost. And I doubt there are many at all who truly want something anywhere near that extreme for the spring turkey season going forward.
The states are not going to work together on this. It is a pipe dream. The only reasonable solution is the shortening of seasons and the reduction in bag limits. Quota hunts for public land are coming for residents and OOS alike in the majority of eastern and southern states. Get ready for them. After experiencing Florida's system for the past 18 years, even with preference points, a good WMA draw takes 3 to 5 years. A big "nice going" to states such as Ohio that reduced the limit to ONE for everybody. That is what it is going to take.
Quote from: joey46 on May 02, 2023, 04:47:38 PM
The states are not going to work together on this. It is a pipe dream. The only reasonable solution is the shortening of seasons and the reduction in bag limits. Quota hunts for public land are coming for residents and OOS alike in the majority of eastern and southern states. Get ready for them. After experiencing Florida's system for the past 18 years, even with preference points, a good WMA draw takes 3 to 5 years. A big "nice going" to states such as Ohio that reduced the limit to ONE for everybody. That is what it is going to take.
I clearly said that I felt the states would probably not ever work together on something reasonable like this, but my point is that if we really want to fix the matter, the states at some point having a change of heart and very closely working together is going to be the best bet to get the turkey population expanding again. I think the states first focus ought to be habitat improvement and better predator control, but working together in some reasonable way as I suggested could only help to further the cause along with those much more major concerns.
That said, I honestly feel that if we would get hell bent focused on improving habitat and reducing predators state to state across the board, the out of state hunting subject would likely dissipate.
Yal need to chill . The man was just throwing around an idea. It's interesting to hear them whether we agree or not.
Quote from: dzsmith on May 02, 2023, 11:28:05 PM
Yal need to chill . The man was just throwing around an idea. It's interesting to hear them whether we agree or not.
Amen ... It's good to hear other people's opinions ... We all care for the future of the turkeys ...
Unfortunately, the monetary needs of the turkey are being squandered in some country near Poland. A lot of good in many areas in this country are and will be sacrificed by this and other spending boondoggles. There just ain't enough wealth to fix everything.