So the season opener thread opened up a thought I've often pondered..
Why do some (I would guess most actually) states not require you to check in your turkey?? Here in Virginia it's been required since I began hunting. And Virginia has a great record keeping system. This allows them to know exactly how many turkeys are killed and which counties etc. now, I realize there are those who don't check them in. But it's still a good system to have.
I've hunted multiple states. And I can't recall very many of them with the check in system and I always found that mind boggling. I know some states send out surveys as I've gotten those. But that in itself isn't a true kill count. I do think more states are going to this as I've researched for travel and hopefully more states continue to get on board.
I'm also a firm believer in separating the tags. Which Virginia doesn't do for turkeys. They separated the bear tag several years ago due to the bear hunters request. This keeps a deer hunter from just happening to shoot a bear as it walks by while deer hunting (legally) unless you have a tag. And then the bear must be checked in. While most of the fall turkey season here in VA doesn't fall during rifle season (in my region), turkeys can be shot on certain days of rifle deer season. And yes, with a rifle (that's a whole other subject). I've always found it hard to stomach knowing that someone sitting in a deer stand can blast a turkey with a .300 mag on those days. But it happens. Way too much. When you buy a big game license in Virginia it comes with both deer and turkey tags. It's my opinion they should be separate. This would give the game department an honest number of turkey hunters and it would reduce the number of turkey killers during deer season with a 30/30 or .308 or whatever high power rifle they have.
So while I think it's good to debate issues such as opening times, bag limits etc. I think that each state needs to look at a check in system. And we all know that isn't full proof. But it's better than a complete guess estimate!
Quote from: deathfoot on February 26, 2023, 08:28:19 PM
So the season opener thread opened up a thought I've often pondered..
Why do some (I would guess most actually) states not require you to check in your turkey?? Here in Virginia it's been required since I began hunting. And Virginia has a great record keeping system. This allows them to know exactly how many turkeys are killed and which counties etc. now, I realize there are those who don't check them in. But it's still a good system to have.
I've hunted multiple states. And I can't recall very many of them with the check in system and I always found that mind boggling. I know some states send out surveys as I've gotten those. But that in itself isn't a true kill count. I do think more states are going to this as I've researched for travel and hopefully more states continue to get on board.
I'm also a firm believer in separating the tags. Which Virginia doesn't do for turkeys. They separated the bear tag several years ago due to the bear hunters request. This keeps a deer hunter from just happening to shoot a bear as it walks by while deer hunting (legally) unless you have a tag. And then the bear must be checked in. While most of the fall turkey season here in VA doesn't fall during rifle season (in my region), turkeys can be shot on certain days of rifle deer season. And yes, with a rifle (that's a whole other subject). I've always found it hard to stomach knowing that someone sitting in a deer stand can blast a turkey with a .300 mag on those days. But it happens. Way too much. When you buy a big game license in Virginia it comes with both deer and turkey tags. It's my opinion they should be separate. This would give the game department an honest number of turkey hunters and it would reduce the number of turkey killers during deer season with a 30/30 or .308 or whatever high power rifle they have.
So while I think it's good to debate issues such as opening times, bag limits etc. I think that each state needs to look at a check in system. And we all know that isn't full proof. But it's better than a complete guess estimate!
My guess on why not has a lot to do with old timer ways and politics
Just doing away with a lot of check stations and paper check in cards in Ms, and going to internet check ins on an App caused a lot of drama.
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You are preaching to the choir with me. Amen! I have been saying basically the same thing for several decades. Used to really irritate me when I would see a state publish estimated harvest figures. What a load of crap. Survey maybe 5% of the hunters and try to extrapolate the total.
Even worse in states like Alabama, where, as stated, tags are not separate and only a general hunting license is required. Absolutely impossible to get an accurate assessment of the number of turkey hunters, let alone the kill numbers.
To their credit, changes are being in many states, Alabama and Kansas included. Always better late than never. Missouri has always required separate tags as well as check in. There's really no excuse for any state to not do so in the 21st century, especially given the technology of smart phones which makes the whole process easier.
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States are going to checking birds in because they are aware of the population drops and want to be able to have a solid number of harvest data in order to help plan and manage the birds. Knowing what you have and what you take from the flock each year is pretty important. Some states are kind of late to the game on harvest reporting but I think most will have it soon if they don't already.
In Idaho we have tags specific to the game species. So, yes, we have turkey tags. There is no check-in, unless you happen to come upon a roadside check station on the drive home, which I've yet to see during the spring turkey season. I just filled out a questionnaire from the state about my turkey hunting last year. More questions about fall hunting than spring, hummmmm... .
Also, residents are allowed to buy a Sportsman's Package which includes your basic hunting and fishing license, plus tags for deer, elk, bear, mountain lion, wolf, turkey, salmon and steelhead. Archery and muzzleloader are validated on the license. I don't buy it, but my impression is that it's popular. Whether its separate, or through the Sportsman's Package, a general turkey tag can be used in the spring, or if unused, saved for the fall.
I turkey hunted in Oregon last year for the first time and registered my kill through their app.
I have a lifetime license for New York State and each year I have my bear, deer and turkey tags mailed to me. I haven't hunted in NY since the mid-90s so I'm not familiar what the reporting requirements are now.
Nebraska is going to tele-check for turkeys this season. I think it's a good move, it'll provide data needed to shape future season/date changes if needed, or not needed. Since I started hunting there has never been a check-in process for turkeys. A survey emailed after the season the last few years has been it.
Deer shot outside of the firearm season require telecheck, so there have been a lot of residents using that system already. It's not too complicated and can be done over the phone or online.
Arkansas has been telecheck for many years - seems to work and is convenient but hunters MUST check their kill in or it won't work!! Mangers and biologists need sound data numbers!
I wish New Jersey still had Check Stations. It all comes down to Money. There seems to be less money for everything these days.
Quote from: quavers59 on February 27, 2023, 07:30:16 AM
I wish New Jersey still had Check Stations. It all comes down to Money. There seems to be less money for everything these days.
Missouri had physical check stations for both deer and turkey until maybe 2000? Not sure of the year. I've heard others lament the loss here as well, but I look at it differently. I don't have any stats to back my thinking up, but humans are, by nature, lazy. Theoretically, the easier the process, the greater the participation rate.
Here an animal had to be checked in the county of harvest, or an adjoining one. A hypothetical: if you are one of those tends to follow the rules, but are not necessarily a stickler for them, and you have a gobbler in your trunk that took you 3 hours to bring into gun range and you are now 45 miles away from home and running late for a family trip to grandma and grandpa's house you promised the wife and kids, are you more likely to take a side trip to the nearest check station 12 miles out of your way, or punch a few "buttons" on your phone?
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Florida FINALLY went to mandatory harvest reporting this year. It can be done on line or over the phone.
1-888-486-8356. Paper harvest log available if no cell service. Kill must be put on paper or call made prior to moving bird from location where recovered. Youth seasons started last weekend. South zone opens next Saturday. Good luck to all.
Florida check in process is a joke. Until the have an actual tag. It doesn't solve much. With the paper system you can throw it away once you get home and the animal is all cleaned up.
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Quote from: Neill_Prater on February 27, 2023, 09:44:37 AM
Quote from: quavers59 on February 27, 2023, 07:30:16 AM
I wish New Jersey still had Check Stations. It all comes down to Money. There seems to be less money for everything these days.
Missouri had physical check stations for both deer and turkey until maybe 2000? Not sure of the year. I've heard others lament the loss here as well, but I look at it differently. I don't have any stats to back my thinking up, but humans are, by nature, lazy. Theoretically, the easier the process, the greater the participation rate.
Here an animal had to be checked in the county of harvest, or an adjoining one. A hypothetical: if you are one of those tends to follow the rules, but are not necessarily a stickler for them, and you have a gobbler in your trunk that took you 3 hours to bring into gun range and you are now 45 miles away from home and running late for a family trip to grandma and grandpa's house you promised the wife and kids, are you more likely to take a side trip to the nearest check station 12 miles out of your way, or punch a few "buttons" on your phone?
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Retired guys on weekdays used to go to the check stations and drink coffee watching to see what was checked in and by who. It was a half social event as they weighed them and measured spurs and beards. I think more were checked in then than now with the tele-check system. We also had sticker tags that had the dates on them once you pulled off the sticker backing was hard to use it again. It was a 2 week season back then one tag per week. I think they also got better/more accurate information about the birds back then.
Quote from: roberthyman14 on February 27, 2023, 10:14:56 AM
Florida check in process is a joke. Until the have an actual tag. It doesn't solve much. With the paper system you can throw it away once you get home and the animal is all cleaned up.
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Poachers will always poach. It took too long to even get this far. We'll see how it goes.
Tennessee has always had a checking Season ... What hurt our season is the Covid Year / lock down, with so many people turkey hunting that really weren't turkey hunters ... They used these numbers in helping decide to move the season back 2 weeks in April... We have app on our phones we can use to check your kills in the State Of Tenn... Check before you drag / move the kill, regardless if you have phone service at the time...
Quote from: joey46 on February 27, 2023, 10:18:34 AM
Quote from: roberthyman14 on February 27, 2023, 10:14:56 AM
Florida check in process is a joke. Until the have an actual tag. It doesn't solve much. With the paper system you can throw it away once you get home and the animal is all cleaned up.
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Poachers will always poach. It took too long to even get this far. We'll see how it goes.
Correct. I think they really need to go to tag like gator season. Harder to take off n reuse. Stiffer penalties if caught.
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I get what your saying about the check in system but the splitting of the tags kinda sucks for out of staters with lifetime license. I grew up on the boarder of VA and WV have had a lifetime license since highschool and hunt bear deer and turkey. By splitting the bear out from the other 2 it basically doubled what it cost for me to hunt even with the lifetime license and if they split the turkey i would anticipate it to double again. I will still continue to buy the tags but i don't have to like the price increase.
As a non res hunter of Virginia, they do have separate tags for turkey. You buy a general hunting license then an additional big game license. This big game license has tags attached too it, separately per game animal. You can only use a turkey tag for a turkey.
Virginia has a Great Call in system! Simplistic, efficient, fast. County of kill, date, male/female, beard length (Slot size), private or public (I think), weapon.
WV started theirs a few years later, not near stream lined or as efficient. But non the less does get the required info for a count, location, date, land use, also keeps you riding around trying to find a check in station.
I will add. WV has required a turkey to be "Tagged" before moved from location of kill since I was a kid, a minimum of 34 years ago! It has been required to be checked in (Two different processes) since I was a kid, again 34 years ago.
VA requires your tag to be cut upon kill. You still need to check it in, again, two processes.
Md., Many years ago required a turkey to be check in. I can not remember the exact process as I only bought one license there 31 years ago.
Point being: NO! The check in process has not just began in states because of the population decline. If your state is now just getting on board with this management tool, call it what it is....piss poor management on the states part!
I knew some dirtbags that used their Florida doe tags and would put them on and not cinch them. Get them home and clean them. If they got caught, cinch them up tight.
It is at least a good step forward. They screwed the pooch on the bear harvest and have shut it down since. We are loaded with them in this part of the state. Could and should have a season on them as well.
Quote from: WV Flopper on March 02, 2023, 06:57:33 PM
As a non res hunter of Virginia, they do have separate tags for turkey. You buy a general hunting license then an additional big game license. This big game license has tags attached too it, separately per game animal. You can only use a turkey tag for a turkey.
Virginia has a Great Call in system! Simplistic, efficient, fast. County of kill, date, male/female, beard length (Slot size), private or public (I think), weapon.
WV started theirs a few years later, not near stream lined or as efficient. But non the less does get the required info for a count, location, date, land use, also keeps you riding around trying to find a check in station.
I will add. WV has required a turkey to be "Tagged" before moved from location of kill since I was a kid, a minimum of 34 years ago! It has been required to be checked in (Two different processes) since I was a kid, again 34 years ago.
VA requires your tag to be cut upon kill. You still need to check it in, again, two processes.
Md., Many years ago required a turkey to be check in. I can not remember the exact process as I only bought one license there 31 years ago.
Point being: NO! The check in process has not just began in states because of the population decline. If your state is now just getting on board with this management tool, call it what it is....piss poor management on the states part!
Agreed. Virginia has had a check system for as long as I can recall. Which is a great thing.
Tags are separate but not really. You buy a big game tag and you get deer and Turkey tags. So while you're deer hunting you can shoot a Turkey with your high powered rifle if you wish. Granted there is a hand full of days for that to happen or a few weeks. Depending on the region you hunt. But it can also be done with muzzleloader on a hand few of days or weeks too while sitting in a deer stand. And that is my beef. I've asked the state to do away with rifles for a legal weapon for turkeys but they just won't.
So that's my reason for separating the tags. Separate bear, deer and turkey. It won't happen here. And I see the above comments and they make complete sense. But without separating the tags you have no clue as to how many actual turkey hunters you have. You just have the final check in tally. Which you can see that 36% of the fall kill was by rifle. That also burns me a new one just thinking about it. That's just my opinion tho. And I truly see others points on not separating the tags. But the bear hunters did it..they appear to have a better lobby effort tho.
Yes Virginia has a system but it relies in honest, ethical hunters to report in. An alarming amount of hunters do not. I have run across too many. There are not enough wardens to keep the masses in check. When they started the earn a buck regulation during deer season. At a gas station I overheard a group of "hunters" bragging about call in checking a ghost doe so they could keep plugging away at bucks. Without enforcement people cheat. Sadly
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Quote from: quavers59 on February 27, 2023, 07:30:16 AM
I wish New Jersey still had Check Stations. It all comes down to Money. There seems to be less money for everything these days.
X10 here. I think they should bring in mandatory check-in back. Call-in, on-line check in makes it easier for the non-ethic hunter to just through it in the freezer and go out and re-use his tag. This is just my thoughts here.....
Quote from: Teamblue on March 03, 2023, 05:00:10 AM
Yes Virginia has a system but it relies in honest, ethical hunters to report in. An alarming amount of hunters do not. I have run across too many. There are not enough wardens to keep the masses in check. When they started the earn a buck regulation during deer season. At a gas station I overheard a group of "hunters" bragging about call in checking a ghost doe so they could keep plugging away at bucks. Without enforcement people cheat. Sadly
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Totally agree. Me and my friend talk about this allll the time. It makes it too easy for the ones not wanting to play by the rules. We often wonder how many does are checked that were never actually killed. And then wonder how many deer in general are killed that are never checked.