I've heard it said the entire time that I've been in this sport that there is a difference between a turkey hunter and a turkey killer. The turkey killer being the guy that you can drop off anywhere, with about any call and he'll come back with a turkey time after time, year after year. The turkey hunter being your average joe that kills one now and then. In your opinion, is there a difference?. Where do you consider yourself?. How does a turkey hunter become a turkey killer?.
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I think to be a turkey killer you are also a turkey hunter. A turkey hunter may not be a consistent turkey killer, nothing wrong with that. I'll add another to the list. A turkey shooter. A turkey shooter may or may not be a turkey hunter or killer. Confusing ain't it?
Quote from: guesswho on February 18, 2023, 02:17:59 PM
I think to be a turkey killer you are also a turkey hunter. A turkey hunter may not be a consistent turkey killer, nothing wrong with that. I'll add another to the list. A turkey shooter. A turkey shooter may or may not be a turkey hunter or killer. Confusing ain't it?
Absolutely. I never really understood the whole thing myself. But I do know what a turkey shooter is, that's 90% of the guys I run in to with a tail fan in the back of their vest.
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It really surprised me reading through SC DNR's turkey harvest reports. Starting a few years ago every turkey harvest has to be reported through the app or telecheck, so they should have pretty good data. It shows that only 2% of hunters get their bag limit of 3 birds.
2%!!!! I would have guessed closer to 25%. Makes me feel good to know I'm usually a 2%'r.
Good read even if you're not from SC. Lot's of good info.
https://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/turkey/2022TurkeyHarvest.html
Oh boy, you are looking for trouble asking this group what the difference is. ;D :angel9:
We'll see where this ends up... ::)
To me, personally, there are multiple connotations that apply to each term,...and I will be willing to bet that there are folks here that will adamantly disagree with my definitions. In the end, it is all a matter of personal perspective on what the terms mean to each of us.
First and foremost, I view anybody that goes afield, regardless of their experience or abilities, as a "turkey hunter" if they are fundamentally hunting with the best interest of the resource in mind as their first priority. In addition, a "turkey hunter" has an ethical and moral foundation that is based on respect for the resource, the regulations established in pursuing it, the hunting public that he shares the pursuit of that resource with, and also the non-hunting public which forms it opinions on hunters based on how they behave and present themselves.
On the other hand, a "turkey killer" may or may not fit into my definition of a "turkey hunter". To me, he may be acknowledged as a "turkey killer" only in the sense that he has enough experience, knowledge, and abilities that he is likely to kill more turkeys in any given situation than the average turkey hunter. ...But unless he fits the definition outlined above as a "turkey hunter", that individual will receive, nor is deserving of, any respect or recognition in my mind.
Unfortunately, again in my mind, a "turkey killer" also sometimes connotates a hunter with any level of experience whose attitude is centered around killing a turkey, possibly by whatever means is necessary, in order to satisfy their ego and meet the approval of their perceived audience. Numbers of kills are often of paramount importance, regardless of the impacts on the resource, the methodology used to achieve those numbers, or how they impact other hunters. They have little or no concerns about the elements listed in my definition of a "turkey hunter" outlined above. There will be those who praise these kinds of people based on the numbers of kills they have, but to me, these types,...often referred to by some as "turkey killers"...are the embarrassment and scourge of the hunting community.
In summary, nobody is a "turkey killer" unless they are a "turkey hunter" first. :icon_thumright:
Quote from: wyetterp on February 18, 2023, 02:58:50 PM
It really surprised me reading through SC DNR's turkey harvest reports. Starting a few years ago every turkey harvest has to be reported through the app or telecheck, so they should have pretty good data. It shows that only 2% of hunters get their bag limit of 3 birds.
2%!!!! I would have guessed closer to 25%. Makes me feel good to know I'm usually a 2%'r.
Good read even if you're not from SC. Lot's of good info.
https://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/turkey/2022TurkeyHarvest.html
We had a similar thing in KY. I don't remember exact numbers but it wasn't much that take their limit of 2 each year and I'm proud to say I've done it yearly
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There was a time being considered a turkey killer might have been appealing to me. I still give it all I've got to kill some turkeys each year but cringe when I hear the turkey killer vs Hunter conversations. Only a couple close friends would know when I kill one these days. I just love to get out in the woods and hope to be in the game. Don't want the attention of a killer.
I agree both have a similarity but the end goals are usually different in the way both go about hunting these gobblers. Methods and techniques are going to vary in how each pursues / chases his gobbler. One will take more patience's in his pursuit while the other will show less patience's in calling and apply more of a different tactic depending more on moving and circling and using more of the terrain in his pursuit of killing the gobbler. Really each style has the same goal of killing a gobbler with a different approach. AS a person ages i think his goals and approach do change in the way each pursues his gobbler... I've hunted with both and i like the lesser of the tactical type. With trying to call them closer to the gun barrel i just enjoy this type hunting more with a lot less pressure of I've got to kill him approach.. IMO
A turkey hunter is one that obeys the rules and enjoys the hunt no matter the outcome.
A turkey killer is one that doesn't worry about limits or lines and the only objective is to kill a gobbler however it needs to happen.
That is my view on it.
I view it kind of the same way with deer hunters.
A deer hunter enjoys the surroundings and isn't concerned with killing a deer.
A deer killer is one that will get a touch obsessive and will drop the hammer with not much thought behind the actual hunt.
I consider myself a turkey hunter. I enjoy the hunt itself but can be happy without a kill for that day.
I walk the line with my deer hunting. I love being in the woods and in a treestand, but sometimes, I will get obsessed with a certain buck or just decide that I will kill a deer that day and I cross over to the deer killer side.
For me, playing the game is the successful part of turkey hunting and the hunt itself; and the kill is the successful part of deer hunting.
I'll pass up a hundred plus shot .opportunities to kill a deer every season, but I'm not passing up a longbeard.
I'm sure my comments made zero sense, but in my mind, that is the difference between hunters and killers. I know both kinds .
I remember years ago sitting & calling for a while. Had an old hen walk up right in front of me within 6ft. She stood there by my feet & made every call I made prior. She then started making her own calls real soft & easy. I started copying her. The first sequence I copied she looked at me & cocked her head just like a dog does listening. She stood right by my feet & began to give me a turkey talk tutorial. She would talk & I would try my best to mimic her. She would patiently stand there & approve by moving on to different sounds & volumes, or disapprove by doing it again & listening to me. This went on for close to 30 minutes. Finally she seemed to approve & slowly clucked & purred her way off, feeding & scratching along.
I didn't see or hear a single male bird that day & didn't kill anything. However, that experience alone was probably one of my all time favorite hunts. I put it up there above my very first kill.
I guess things like that, & nature in general, make me enjoy just being out there & hunting more than the kills. I'm addicted to the whispering pines for sure.
The bag limit is my lowest concern or priority.
Quote from: Sixes on February 18, 2023, 04:20:21 PM
A turkey hunter is one that obeys the rules and enjoys the hunt no matter the outcome.
A turkey killer is one that doesn't worry about limits or lines and the only objective is to kill a gobbler however it needs to happen.
Our definitions are pretty much the same.
"Turkey hunters" can be guys that kill a lotta birds. But, they do it for the satisfaction of the interaction and the thrill of the game.
"Turkey killers" are motivated by the peer pressure ( whether real or perceived) to perform. To prove a point or uphold a reputation to someone other than themselves.
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 18, 2023, 03:08:46 PM
First and foremost, I view anybody that goes afield, regardless of their experience or abilities, as a "turkey hunter" if they are fundamentally hunting with the best interest of the resource in mind as their first priority. In addition, a "turkey hunter" has an ethical and moral foundation that is based on respect for the resource, the regulations established in pursuing it, the hunting public that he shares the pursuit of that resource with, and also the non-hunting public which forms it opinions on hunters based on how they behave and present themselves.
This paragraph from GobbleNut sums it up for me. If everyone in the Turkey Hunting Community would fall into this category, the Turkey woods would be a whole lot better for sure! Well put....
I always say, "It's about the journey, not the outcome."
I'm having a identity crises ... because all my turkeys where killed while I was actually hunting them .:)
I think the lingo is getting a little tangled up. To some the term killer is automatically negative. I think we all agree on the same stuff we're just disagreeing on the terminology. I'd say that within the group of respectable turkey "hunters" there are some guys that just get it done more consistently. Maybe there better woodsman, callers, juts know the animal behavior better. I definitely think there are guys who fall into this category. I'd say there just better "hunters" instead of "killers", especially seeing how "killers" can take on a more negative connotation. The people that do if for the gram, the social pat on the back, bend the rules, cross the lines, well they definitely exist to, and maybe we should just call them low down good for nothing pathetic turkey shooting losers!
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Quote from: Yoder409 on February 18, 2023, 04:47:44 PM
Quote from: Sixes on February 18, 2023, 04:20:21 PM
A turkey hunter is one that obeys the rules and enjoys the hunt no matter the outcome.
A turkey killer is one that doesn't worry about limits or lines and the only objective is to kill a gobbler however it needs to happen.
Our definitions are pretty much the same.
"Turkey hunters" can be guys that kill a lotta birds. But, they do it for the satisfaction of the interaction and the thrill of the game.
"Turkey killers" are motivated by the peer pressure ( whether real or perceived) to perform. To prove a point or uphold a reputation to someone other than themselves.
This is exactly my view on this. I would add a turkey shooter as another category. (Deer hunts them out of a blind, only can kill one if fanning/reaping, and ditch crawling them to sneak up and shoot one)
My dear late friend, Kenny Morgan, often said that "anyone could kill a turkey, hot many know how to hunt them." Make what you will of that phrase.
Whenever I've heard the term turkey killer it always seemed to be in reference towards an excellent hunter. It never had negative connotations. I think slob hunter or poacher are more in line with what many here seem to equate to a turkey killer.
I think the hip name for it now is turkey thug.
Or is it the turkey thugs are now killers?
I've never liked liked the sound of turkey thug. I wish Cuz would stop saying that.
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I don't think Scott's definition of a turkey killer is necessarily a bad thing. It could very well be used to define a very good turkey hunter. In my own personal viewpoint, there are turkey killers, and there are turkey hunters. Killers are just out to kill, any legal method, and oftentimes, illegal methods are on the table. I do my best to avoid such people. Turkey hunters, on the other hand, I have some respect for with a certain type of turkey hunter standing a little higher to me. A turkey hunter has a certain attachment to the turkey. It is about the hunt, and yes, the goal is to kill the turkeys, but the details and the journey matter, and all is not lost if the turkey isn't killed. They are also law-abiding and decent members of society. The type of turkey hunter that stands tallest to me is the hunter that has a set of personal standards that have to be met before the trigger is pulled. They want to win the game, but only if they feel that they earned it. The standards vary a little from hunter to hunter, but in my experience, the standards were stricter than the law. I have only met a handful of these types, but I wish more were around.
As far as others see me? I hope to be thought of as a turkey hunter.
I have never really concerned myself with being a "killer" in the sense of having a high kill to hunt ratio. I just try to hunt hard and to the best of my abilities, be thankful when I am successful, and appreciate every day I get to hunt them to the fullest. There is just something about turkey hunting that's special, I don't need to be behind the gun to love every second of it. Helping someone else pull the trigger can be just as rewarding.
Quote from: Howieg on February 18, 2023, 07:27:26 PM
I'm having a identity crises ... because all my turkeys where killed while I was actually hunting them .:)
Wow!!! Me too! :camohat:
I'm always a turkey hunter trying to be a turkey killer.. I'm not too cool to admit what my end goal is when I load my shotgun and head afield.
Quote from: kytrkyhntr on February 18, 2023, 08:40:30 PM
I'm always a turkey hunter trying to be a turkey killer.. I'm not too cool to admit what my end goal is when I load my shotgun and head afield.
So un politically correct!!!I like it ^^^
Hello,
My name is John and I'm a turkey hunter.
Seriously,
Most times, I'm not very good at it either.
Very seldom I'm a KillaH, But when I do, I can talk some trash! :funnyturkey:
Quote from: Happy on February 18, 2023, 08:26:09 PM
The type of turkey hunter that stands tallest to me is the hunter that has a set of personal standards that have to be met before the trigger is pulled. They want to win the game, but only if they feel that they earned it. The standards vary a little from hunter to hunter, but in my experience, the standards were stricter than the law. I have only met a handful of these types, but I wish more were around.
Can someone please carve this in a stone, somewhere, please ??
Quote from: Yoder409 on February 18, 2023, 09:52:59 PM
Quote from: Happy on February 18, 2023, 08:26:09 PM
The type of turkey hunter that stands tallest to me is the hunter that has a set of personal standards that have to be met before the trigger is pulled. They want to win the game, but only if they feel that they earned it. The standards vary a little from hunter to hunter, but in my experience, the standards were stricter than the law. I have only met a handful of these types, but I wish more were around.
Can someone please carve this in a stone, somewhere, please ??
I agree. And no where in that description does it say that they must preach to all other turkey hunters their personal set of ethics or their set of rules to the hunt. I have no problem with trying to advance the standard of ethics and respect a lot of folks that do that (here and in real life), but when someone starts ridiculing someone for the way they legally hunt turkeys, my brain shuts down. I have my own set of rules and ethics and while I will gladly listen to respectful opinions, when they start telling everyone else that does not do it their way is unethical, that is where they lose me.
I tend to use turkey killer as a compliment and turkey shooter as negative. In my description, a turkey killer is a very accomplished turkey hunter. A turkey shooter just cares about the kill.
Being a turkey hunter is physical and turkey hunters kill a lot of turkeys. Being a turkey killer is a mental game and it's about the mind games. They kill turkeys with efficiency and skill.
I have shot a decent number of birds in my 40 plus years of chasing turkeys, but my favorite hunts and memories don't involve birds I have killed. It's calling three roosted out of trees 70 yards from my sons and I and having them land in limbs 10 feet above us. It's setting up a decoy and calling in 3 jakes, followed by an old boss hen who called in three separate groups of hens...had 50 plus birds in front of me before a triple bearded Tom with 1and 3/4 inch spurs came gobbling down the hill only to be met by three other Tom's who fought for an hour while it seems every turkey in the county came to watch. Yes I ended up killing the the old boy and he hangs in my cabin...but that was anticlimactic.
I don't think those things are important to a turkey killer
Quote from: aclawrence on February 18, 2023, 07:29:30 PM
I think the lingo is getting a little tangled up. To some the term killer is automatically negative. I think we all agree on the same stuff we're just disagreeing on the terminology. I'd say that within the group of respectable turkey "hunters" there are some guys that just get it done more consistently. Maybe there better woodsman, callers, juts know the animal behavior better. I definitely think there are guys who fall into this category. I'd say there just better "hunters" instead of "killers", especially seeing how "killers" can take on a more negative connotation. The people that do if for the gram, the social pat on the back, bend the rules, cross the lines, well they definitely exist to, and maybe we should just call them low down good for nothing pathetic turkey shooting losers!
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Around here, the terminology isn't a negative thing, and it's interesting to me to see everyone's different perspectives from around the country. In my area a turkey hunter is the guy who uses decoys, blinds, has a vest full of calls and goes opening weekend and maybe the next weekend, rarely kills a turkey except for once in a blue moon and blames the turkeys, the weather, the gun he totes, etc for his lack of skill. He typically turns in to a turkey shooter, which is driving around until he sees a gobbler in a field, knocks on a door and takes off with a tail fan. In my area, a turkey killer is the guy who gets a bird year in and year out, no decoys, a couple calls and a lot of woodmanship. A guy you can drop off on any piece of land and in a day or two he will tote a gobbler out. We have a lot more of the first two rather than the later around here.
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Quote from: Gooserbat on February 18, 2023, 10:30:19 PM
Being a turkey hunter is physical and turkey hunters kill a lot of turkeys. Being a turkey killer is a mental game and it's about the mind games. They kill turkeys with efficiency and skill.
I've never thought of it that way. I like your view point.
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Quote from: TrackeySauresRex on February 18, 2023, 09:18:32 PM
Hello,
My name is John and I'm a turkey hunter.
Hi John!
Hunter vs Killer
I see everybody here has a different perspective.
It's my opinion that everybody here in the forum is a turkey hunter to some degree or another and yes, some are more consistent at harvesting a turkey then others. Maybe they put more time and effort into it than others or their woodsmen-ship or calling abilities are better. We all could be one of those more consistent hunters if we took the time to learn from your mistakes and maybe be willing to try something new.
I go turkey hunting to enjoy myself and the peace and tranquillity is offers me. If I happen to see or hear a turkey that's a treat and should I be fortunate enough to kill one that's a bonus!
I enjoy the solitude and keep to myself but I would extend an invitation and welcome somebody to come along anytime.
I don't need to let others know what I killed, where I killed it or what call I used. Should somebody be inquisitive enough to ask I might share that info with them.
I just do my own thing, I hunt turkeys.
This is a good example of why english is a confusing language to learn. Many definitions are very context and location driven. Might be easier to learn to talk turkey?
Good thread Scott. It really is an oxymoron, "Hunter vs. Killer". Obviously we all took up the sport to get out and enjoy the wilderness, and to try and outwit "harvest" a Wild Turkey. Each goes "hand-in-hand", you start out as a Turkey Hunter, and hope to become a Turkey Killer. It's the "ethics" employed in your journey that determines your level of respect and success......
Well, I find this as an interesting discussion, but I personally rarely ever think of it like this. I pretty much categorize everyone as hunters and among them there are only two groups; slobs and and respected hunters. Some choose to employ tactics others wouldn't but still play within the laws for the most part, (if you claim to never have bent or broken a rule excuse me for doubting that). When I wake up in the morning I am going turkey hunting and I am only hunting until I engage a bird I intend to kill, at that moment I am 100% a killer and that is my intent. I still obey the rules of engagement I have set, but make no mistake I am trying to kill him, period. When he whoops me or I kill him I revert to just a hunter and outdoorsman. At that point a bunch of wildflowers can distract me or any other interesting thing. I may just get tired and quit, but if I am on a bird there is no quit....he is either dead or I am whooped.
Quote from: Zobo on February 18, 2023, 07:03:22 PM
I always say, "It's about the journey, not the outcome."
Agreed.
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Quote from: Sixes on February 18, 2023, 04:20:21 PM
A turkey hunter is one that obeys the rules and enjoys the hunt no matter the outcome.
A turkey killer is one that doesn't worry about limits or lines and the only objective is to kill a gobbler however it needs to happen.
That is my view on it.
I view it kind of the same way with deer hunters.
A deer hunter enjoys the surroundings and isn't concerned with killing a deer.
A deer killer is one that will get a touch obsessive and will drop the hammer with not much thought behind the actual hunt.
I consider myself a turkey hunter. I enjoy the hunt itself but can be happy without a kill for that day.
I walk the line with my deer hunting. I love being in the woods and in a treestand, but sometimes, I will get obsessed with a certain buck or just decide that I will kill a deer that day and I cross over to the deer killer side.
For me, playing the game is the successful part of turkey hunting and the hunt itself; and the kill is the successful part of deer hunting.
I'll pass up a hundred plus shot .opportunities to kill a deer every season, but I'm not passing up a longbeard.
I'm sure my comments made zero sense, but in my mind, that is the difference between hunters and killers. I know both kinds .
THIS ^^^^^^
I want to be known as a turkey hunter, not as a turkey killer. To me there is so much more to being a hunter than being a killer. I enjoy the entire experience, woodsmanship, the outdoors, honing skills, calling, etc. The actual kill is really anti climactic, everything leading up to it is exciting. I personally do not have to kill to be a hunter, and after decades of hunting I don't get the enjoyment of the kill anymore. Just to outsmart the majestic gobbler and get him in close is exciting, and of course the kill is also part of it, just not the big part. Just my 2 cents on the subject. And everybody has a couple cents in their pocket!
My outlook is a turkey hunter hunts and kills turkeys. A "Killer" is a turkey hunter who kills birds consistently. A turkey killer in my opinion limits out every year no matter the circumstances. He can also go anywhere in the country and kill a bird. I believe a slob turkey hunter can derive from a turkey killer and turkey hunter alike. Some turkey hunters get desperate after having a dry spell and the pressure makes them go to any extreme to kill a bird. The turkey killer is so use to killing them consistently , that when they hit a dry spell , the pressure to perform can make them go down the same path.
This is all semantics, but my personal differentiation would be that one operates within a framework of ethics and fair chase while the other operates from a belief of by any means necessary. I won't roost shoot. I won't fire at birds on the wing. I won't fire at birds on the run. I want to win the game, and plenty of days they just flat beat you. If that means not killing, so be it. I'll be back tomorrow.
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I don't agree, I see similarity in both and one deploys a different tactic in how they accomplish their goals. In my opinion one goes about it in more of a tactical way and the other goes about it relying on his calling ability with more confidence. IMO
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 20, 2023, 10:47:25 AM
I don't agree, I see similarity in both and one deploys a different tactic in how they accomplish their goals. In my opinion one goes about it in more of a tactical way and the other goes about it relying on his calling ability with more confidence. IMO
Good point Greg. I would take that and expand it to every facet of turkey hunting. The turkey killer is better at reading the lay of the land and the critters in it. He moves through areas with far less disturbance. He's confidant in all aspects of his ability to successfully find and bring turkeys into gun range. He reacts to most situations almost as a reflex. There's no pondering whether to move on a bird or not, the turkey killer knows when to move, when to stay put, and when to shut up. He don't ponder these things. He reacts because it's ingrained in him.
Imo turkey killer is a level of skill that can be acquired by a turkey hunter, a slob hunter, and a poacher alike. Kinda like black belt in karate, Sensei, master, or what ever.
Quote from: Paulmyr on February 18, 2023, 08:12:55 PM
Whenever I've heard the term turkey killer it always seemed to be in reference towards an excellent hunter. It never had negative connotations. I think slob hunter or poacher are more in line with what many here seem to equate to a turkey killer.
Well said Paul.
Well I am a turkey hunter that kills turkeys consistently so I guess I be a turkey killer lol.
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Good point Greg. I would take that and expand it to every facet of turkey hunting. The turkey killer is better at reading the lay of the land and the critters in it. He moves through areas with far less disturbance. He's confidant in all aspects of his ability to successfully find and bring turkeys into gun range. He reacts to most situations almost as a reflex. There's no pondering whether to move on a bird or not, the turkey killer knows when to move, when to stay put, and when to shut up. He don't ponder these things. He reacts because it's ingrained in him.
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Once again, well said. And yes, Paul is a turkey killer (in a good kind of way. :-)
Quote from: Paulmyr on February 20, 2023, 11:59:23 AM
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 20, 2023, 10:47:25 AM
I don't agree, I see similarity in both and one deploys a different tactic in how they accomplish their goals. In my opinion one goes about it in more of a tactical way and the other goes about it relying on his calling ability with more confidence. IMO
Good point Greg. I would take that and expand it to every facet of turkey hunting. The turkey killer is better at reading the lay of the land and the critters in it. He moves through areas with far less disturbance. He's confidant in all aspects of his ability to successfully find and bring turkeys into gun range. He reacts to most situations almost as a reflex. There's no pondering whether to move on a bird or not, the turkey killer knows when to move, when to stay put, and when to shut up. He don't ponder these things. He reacts because it's ingrained in him.
Imo turkey killer is a level of skill that can be acquired by a turkey hunter, a slob hunter, and a poacher alike. Kinda like black belt in karate, Sensei, master, or what ever.
That's what a "turkey killer" is around here. It seems like every body around here is a turkey hunter, but there's only 3 that I know personally in a 100 mile radius of where I live that I would consider a turkey killer. He's the guy that yelps like a hen, tone, pitch, cadence. The guy that you can drop off on a piece of land (wether it's 20 acres or 20,000 acres) in the dark with any type of call of your choice and a shotgun with a couple shells in it and he will show up with a turkey by dark more times than not. Regardless of weather, what phase of the season, etc. Consistently, year after year. His motions are fluid, quiet, and instinctual. He knows the turkeys and how they use terrain. He doesn't guess, he doesn't have second thoughts, he just does and more times than not, he's right in his choice.
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Quote from: mountainhunter1 on February 20, 2023, 12:55:11 PM
I like to hunt turkeys. I guess I might as well admit that I am one of those guys who can be dropped off on any piece of ground and usually come back with a turkey. Does mean I am one of the bad guys? You can tell me.
However - I have probably way less calls than most on here, and even hunt with some calls that I have made with my own two hands instead of just buying them all. For years, I hunted with just a crude homemade slate, a lynch box and a diaphragm. It was only the past few years that I have gotten some decent calls. I don't use decoys, and I never hunt private land. I like to hunt public birds, and where I live they are hard to kill and that is the only birds that I want to try and play chess with. I am not the best caller in the woods and never will be, but call good enough and realize that many times it is knowing when to call more so than sounding like Dave Owens. I have enough patience to fill the ark and a decent amount of woodmanship. I kill most of my birds by knowing how (after many years of learning) to just think what he is going to do before he does it. I have talked with Paulmyr off of here of recent, and I think he is much the same way.
I try to avoid all other hunters to extreme ends and will avoid whole blocks of woods to not ruffle another fellow feathers. I won't hunt Saturdays most times just trying to be a good sport for the fellow who has to work all week and Saturday is his only day to hunt (I am in church on Sundays). I try to exhaustion to follow the law to the letter. I am like Chester and want to win the game, and I want them in my lap before I kill them. If I have not beaten them, and they have not came to me because of my calling, then it is no good for me.
I was one who always tagged out every year early and then called birds for other hunters. BUT - with the way things are now, I have for several years now taken a stance to not fill my last tag wherever I was hunting trying to insure that there are some birds tomorrow. I am more and more becoming one will call them up and then let them walk off. It is rare for me these days to even mention to anyone that I killed a bird, unless they ask. For me, it is a private thing that brings me satisfaction and a matter of respect between me and the turkey. My biggest concern at the moment is that I am working to figure out how to get rid of MORE nest predators to better help the hens to do their thing, because the turkey are in trouble in my state. Another top priority for me is buying and giving quality calls to guys who do not have any worth mentioning to start with. I get more joy in buying another guy a call than in buying one for myself.
That said, I am not sure if I am a turkey hunter or a turkey killer. Maybe I am neither. I will let you gentleman decide. All I know is that I love to be in the woods, and I can fall off the face of the earth for the whole day and it is just therapy to my soul. If I kill a turkey great, but if not I am still praising the Lord for Him giving me one more day to enjoy His creation.
[mention]mountainhunter1 [/mention] we are very much alike. I don't hunt private land, I prefer public, National Forest with mountains is what I prefer. I fill my tags every season, except last season, I intentionally didn't fill my last tag. I have killed turkeys with pot calls and wing bones that I've made myself. I don't use decoys, TSS, or red dot sight. And like you, I will not shoot one that is just passing through. I have to whole heartedly know that I got in his head, used what I know about turkeys and beat him on his own turf. In the past I would be tagged out, at the latest, 3 days into the season and would take 6 or 8 more people every spring that needed help just to call them up one more time. I haven't in a few years except for a couple select people. Last season I could have filled both my tags by the second day of season but drug it out until the 13th day. I spend a lot of time with each type of call practicing daily and have for 20 years. And much like yourself, if I kill one to eat, that's all I'm worried about. After the first one, I'll continue to go and call them up and take pictures of them. To me, calling them up and having them completely convinced that you're a hen and you used your knowledge of the turkey to set up in the right place the first time to have him close is what trips my trigger, the trigger pull doesn't matter as much anymore. And like you said, take that of it as you will. I don't post my birds to social media, only my kids and wife and dad know when I kill one most of the time. I'm just a guy who has had a fascination and love for these birds since the first time I saw and heard one when I was 5. I love the birds, the places you hunt them, and everything about the spring woods with them in it
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Id say a turkey hunter takes pride in a fair match and holds his head high after losing . A turkey killer will swing and shoot at a gobbler after hes been seen and putted at , where a hunter would let him live until the next hunt. A killer would also crawl a ditch to ambush turkeys that arent responding and playing the game
Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 20, 2023, 10:35:18 AM
This is all semantics, but my personal differentiation would be that one operates within a framework of ethics and fair chase while the other operates from a belief of by any means necessary. I won't roost shoot. I won't fire at birds on the wing. I won't fire at birds on the run. I want to win the game, and plenty of days they just flat beat you. If that means not killing, so be it. I'll be back tomorrow.
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Well said
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We used to have a 3-bird limit here in Ga and I usually tagged out most years.
Started last season thinking I was turkey killing machine and I had it all figured out.
I was mad that they dropped the limit to 2 birds and thought id be done in no time.
Well I hunted more days last year than any other and had everything that could go wrong happen.
Ended the season with a big fat goose egg.
That said I learned a lot and had an amazing season. Turns out I'm no killer at all.
I'm a turkey encounter hunter. In other words, I'm hunting for the moments, the memories, and a little luck.
Quote from: strum on February 20, 2023, 02:52:39 PM
We used to have a 3-bird limit here in Ga and I usually tagged out most years.
Started last season thinking I was turkey killing machine and I had it all figured out.
I was mad that they dropped the limit to 2 birds and thought id be done in no time.
Well I hunted more days last year than any other and had everything that could go wrong happen.
Ended the season with a big fat goose egg.
That said I learned a lot and had an amazing season. Turns out I'm no killer at all.
I'm a turkey encounter hunter. In other words, I'm hunting for the moments, the memories, and a little luck.
Absolutely!
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In the context of everyone being an ethical hunter.
Yes, there is definitely a difference...
I know a few killers and many, many, hunters !!!
As long as everyone is having fun that is all that matters. ;)
I have hunted HARD for 20+ years with VERY limited success. Many more sob stories than success stories. I'm a turkey hunter. On the other hand, I have a friend who has been hunting not as long as I but he is one of those guys who gets out of the truck and shuts the door and a turkey gobbles 100 yds away from the door closing. He walks to the nearest shrub, gets behind it, makes a call and here he comes. BOOM. (He has MANY more similar stories) I hesitate to call him a turkey killer in a negative sense because he loves the bird as much as I but I have come to the conclusion that maybe some are just luckier than others.
Quote from: ditchdigger on February 20, 2023, 10:53:23 PM
I have hunted HARD for 20+ years with VERY limited success. Many more sob stories than success stories. I'm a turkey hunter. On the other hand, I have a friend who has been hunting not as long as I but he is one of those guys who gets out of the truck and shuts the door and a turkey gobbles 100 yds away from the door closing. He walks to the nearest shrub, gets behind it, makes a call and here he comes. BOOM. (He has MANY more similar stories) I hesitate to call him a turkey killer in a negative sense because he loves the bird as much as I but I have come to the conclusion that maybe some are just luckier than others.
Your buddy is the Fonzi of turkey hunting! :icon_thumright: AYE!
Is that the new label! Turkey thug, turkey killer, turkey Fonz!
Quote from: Paulmyr on February 20, 2023, 10:59:36 PM
Quote from: ditchdigger on February 20, 2023, 10:53:23 PM
I have hunted HARD for 20+ years with VERY limited success. Many more sob stories than success stories. I'm a turkey hunter. On the other hand, I have a friend who has been hunting not as long as I but he is one of those guys who gets out of the truck and shuts the door and a turkey gobbles 100 yds away from the door closing. He walks to the nearest shrub, gets behind it, makes a call and here he comes. BOOM. (He has MANY more similar stories) I hesitate to call him a turkey killer in a negative sense because he loves the bird as much as I but I have come to the conclusion that maybe some are just luckier than others.
Your buddy is the Fonzi of turkey hunting! :icon_thumright: AYE!
Is that the new label! Turkey thug, turkey killer, turkey Fonz!
He just may have a new nickname now!!!
Theses discussions have only supported my feelings on states reducing bag limits. When you consider the overall picture and flock dynamics for a whole state they are mostly insignificant and only pandering to hunters groan to "do something". So few hunters consistently fill all their tags it just doesn't do a lot to save birds. If you want to be significant shorten or close seasons. Last year in Ohio they reduced us to one gobbler. It reduced the kill by ~4000 gobblers, or about one gobbler per township (23,400 acres ). Yeah, not really going to make much difference in a flock of 250,000.
Back on topic. I am more confused now than when I first read this thread. I have heard guys described as "Killers/murders" and only thought it meant they were highly successful at bagging birds. Never ever thought it meant they were unethical. I guess I am a killer. I pretty much fit the criteria here. I have filled every tag in my home state for probably 25+ years or more. I have filled most of my out of state tags. I take pride in being able to get my birds in new ground. There is no mistaking that I am leaving the truck with the intent to fill a tag. I like hunting and enjoy the outdoors immensely, but I am there to kill a bird. Sure I will often just back off if a hunt is going poorly, but that doesn't mean I won't be back soon. I hunt legally and I am adamant about following the regulations.
We like eating turkeys and consider them a special addition to our freezer. Turkey pot pie, turkey casserole, turkey and noodles, roast turkey and more are meals we look forward too. I don't want to offend anyone, but why are we finding one more way to vilianize our fellow hunters?
Quote from: eggshell on February 21, 2023, 06:54:07 AM
I am more confused now than when I first read this thread.
From the get go it became a conversation of semantics. Without clear and agreed upon definitions of what is meant by each term you can't have a meaningful conversation. The responses can't help but wander around aimlessly. I hunt two states consistently and get four tags between them. I tend to kill four birds a year. I would never say I was a "turkey killer," but by some folks definition I guess I am.
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Quote from: ScottTaulbee on February 18, 2023, 01:46:11 PM
How does a turkey hunter become a turkey killer?.
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Desire, experience.
" I don't want to offend anyone, but why are we finding one more way to vilianize our fellow hunters?"
[/quote]. this is Egg shells quote
Because the green monster is raising his ugly head :blob10:
Quote from: crow on February 21, 2023, 11:05:55 AM
" I don't want to offend anyone, but why are we finding one more way to vilianize our fellow hunters?"
. this is Egg shells quote
Because the green monster is raising his ugly head :blob10:
[/quote] Agree ... We have enough people in Washington wanting to take what little rights away that we have left... So my suggestion is you better start supporting each other ... In fighting the resistance ... IMO ...
I feel ripped off. Just checked my drivers license and it just has my name on it.
Gotta be a Hunter before your a killer. Much rather be called a Hunter than a killer. If I don't kill something, it doesn't mean I wasn't successful. I may have learned a lot while in the woods. I may have just enjoyed the experience of being able to be there. I'm a Hunter!!!
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 21, 2023, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: crow on February 21, 2023, 11:05:55 AM
" I don't want to offend anyone, but why are we finding one more way to vilianize our fellow hunters?"
. this is Egg shells quote
Because the green monster is raising his ugly head :blob10:
Agree ... We have enough people in Washington wanting to take what little rights away that we have left... So my suggestion is you better start supporting each other ... In fighting the resistance ... IMO ...
[/quote]
I didn't mean for this to take the turn it did. In my neck of the woods calling someone a turkey killer would be similar to comparing them to, say, Dick Kirby, Knight and Hale, Brad Harris, Ray Eye, etc. It's a compliment and I didn't realize so many people consider it a bad thing. We're all in the same boat here and if you're hunting legally and up to the standards you consider ethical, then by god have fun. I don't care if y'all use TSS, Scopes, red dots, decoys, 10 gauges or slingshots. What y'all do is between your conscience and the good lord. That's what makes turkey hunting different than anything else, there's hundreds of ways to do it and none of them are wrong. As long as you respect the birds and hunt legally, we have a lot in common. One thing that I'll never agree with is fanning and the use of words like "thunder chicken". If y'all think those are fine practices, then we have nothing more in common other than the fact we like to shoot turkeys.
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Quote from: wyetterp on February 18, 2023, 02:58:50 PM
It really surprised me reading through SC DNR's turkey harvest reports. Starting a few years ago every turkey harvest has to be reported through the app or telecheck, so they should have pretty good data. It shows that only 2% of hunters get their bag limit of 3 birds.
2%!!!! I would have guessed closer to 25%. Makes me feel good to know I'm usually a 2%'r.
Good read even if you're not from SC. Lot's of good info.
https://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/turkey/2022TurkeyHarvest.html
I am from SC and was surprised with this number too. but man our numbers were awful on harvest we are definitely in a significant decline makes you wonder if you should even be trying to shoot your limit.
Quote from: Burtwill on February 21, 2023, 01:55:11 PM
Quote from: wyetterp on February 18, 2023, 02:58:50 PM
It really surprised me reading through SC DNR's turkey harvest reports. Starting a few years ago every turkey harvest has to be reported through the app or telecheck, so they should have pretty good data. It shows that only 2% of hunters get their bag limit of 3 birds.
2%!!!! I would have guessed closer to 25%. Makes me feel good to know I'm usually a 2%'r.
Good read even if you're not from SC. Lot's of good info.
https://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/turkey/2022TurkeyHarvest.html
I am from SC and was surprised with this number too. but man our numbers were awful on harvest we are definitely in a significant decline makes you wonder if you should even be trying to shoot your limit.
My understanding is our numbers have a well balanced ratio, which is very important. At least according to SCDNR. If you can get your 3 tag limit, do it. I wouldn't hesitate with that because it's also helpful in keep our ratio where it's better for the turkeys. I don't think it's the hunters putting a dent in the population. It is more the habitats & critters doing more damage than us. We are only a small part of it & actually helping. I personally wasn't happy when we went down to a 3 bird limit. Their numbers show we, as a whole, aren't killing anywhere near what it could be with the number of tags issued. Get your 3 birds! Your not hurting but actually helping. And for the love of god, please don't let dnr know you think 3 birds may be too much. Those dang bureaucrats are already making all kinds of stupid decisions for us. A lot of their recent proposals & surveys are more geared to just more restrictions (which really just means more money for them) & more regulations, which we don't need. They already screwed us with the deer tag restrictions.
Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 20, 2023, 10:35:18 AM
This is all semantics, but my personal differentiation would be that one operates within a framework of ethics and fair chase while the other operates from a belief of by any means necessary. I won't roost shoot. I won't fire at birds on the wing. I won't fire at birds on the run. I want to win the game, and plenty of days they just flat beat you. If that means not killing, so be it. I'll be back tomorrow.
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X2
It's a tricky question, but there are killers that aren't really "turkey hunters" in my opinion, based on how those turkeys are killed. Killing turkeys don't necessarily mean one is what I would consider a true turkey hunter. Some are more successful than others, but #s are often relative to how often one hunts and / or where one hunts. I think many lose sight of that. A guy that kills 2 per year may be a better hunter than the guy that kills 10 per year. I don't much care for or respect self proclaimed killers.
It's not about the numbers , it's how you play the game to me. Rather be known as a HUNTER than as a KILLER any day.
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Quote from: GobbleNut on February 18, 2023, 03:08:46 PM
Oh boy, you are looking for trouble asking this group what the difference is. ;D :angel9:
We'll see where this ends up... ::)
To me, personally, there are multiple connotations that apply to each term,...and I will be willing to bet that there are folks here that will adamantly disagree with my definitions. In the end, it is all a matter of personal perspective on what the terms mean to each of us.
First and foremost, I view anybody that goes afield, regardless of their experience or abilities, as a "turkey hunter" if they are fundamentally hunting with the best interest of the resource in mind as their first priority. In addition, a "turkey hunter" has an ethical and moral foundation that is based on respect for the resource, the regulations established in pursuing it, the hunting public that he shares the pursuit of that resource with, and also the non-hunting public which forms it opinions on hunters based on how they behave and present themselves.
On the other hand, a "turkey killer" may or may not fit into my definition of a "turkey hunter". To me, he may be acknowledged as a "turkey killer" only in the sense that he has enough experience, knowledge, and abilities that he is likely to kill more turkeys in any given situation than the average turkey hunter. ...But unless he fits the definition outlined above as a "turkey hunter", that individual will receive, nor is deserving of, any respect or recognition in my mind.
Unfortunately, again in my mind, a "turkey killer" also sometimes connotates a hunter with any level of experience whose attitude is centered around killing a turkey, possibly by whatever means is necessary, in order to satisfy their ego and meet the approval of their perceived audience. Numbers of kills are often of paramount importance, regardless of the impacts on the resource, the methodology used to achieve those numbers, or how they impact other hunters. They have little or no concerns about the elements listed in my definition of a "turkey hunter" outlined above. There will be those who praise these kinds of people based on the numbers of kills they have, but to me, these types,...often referred to by some as "turkey killers"...are the embarrassment and scourge of the hunting community.
In summary, nobody is a "turkey killer" unless they are a "turkey hunter" first. :icon_thumright:
This break down is spot on in my personal opinion. Being from the South I have ran across several that fall into the last category.
It goes both ways! I know guys that kill one bird a year that are incredible turkey hunters. They hunt highly pressured public land birds that are extremely hard to hunt. I also know a few that have excellent ground with little to no pressure. They have no problem filling a limit every year decoying birds in food plots. From the outside looking in hunter B looks like the killer, but in reality hunter A is the guy you don't want to see parked at your gate.
Growing up in West Virginia where rifles are legal during spring turkey season I knew several turkey "killers". One gentleman was particularly hard on the local turkey population. He would kill his limit plus some every year and never owned a turkey call. He would kill most of the birds he got out of a truck window with a .223. One time I was talking to my dad about it and how I thought people like him gave hunters a bad name, and my dad's response was he's no hunter he is just a killer. To him the success was having a dead bird and not about enjoying the experience.
As an avid bear hunter we used this same nomenclature for people that filled their bear tag every year but never owned a dog. They were just in it for the kill. All training season they were nowhere to be found but the day kill season started they were right there.
This to me has always been the difference between a hunter and a killer. If your happiness with your hunt is based only the kill and not the journey then you are a killer.
Like everybody else prior to me has said this is all semantics and if you are comfortable with how you hunt and you are doing it legally don't worry about titles or labels that other people might put on you.
I kinda have to agree with later posts. Turkey Hunter is kinda where I personally want to end up. We all probably in a way start out as 'killers'; meaning our vision of success is based on limits and numbers. In the last 30+ seasons I place a lot more emphasis on how a hunt unfolds rather than the end result. Don't get me wrong; I like to kill a gobbler BUT how I get there means a lot more. I have my own 'rules' that go beyond what the fish and game Dept term as legal means....
Also I view a real turkey hunter as a person who thinks turkey all year long. For example, if you plant a food plot there's something there for the bird. You trap or you might sacrifice a deer hunt to take out a coyote/bobcat ( when legal ...). Maybe you prescribe burn when u can or you leave nesting cover around fields etc.
Occasionally, I get pulled in to our local FB Turkey hunter pages.... Lotta ' killers' there. Armchair athletes that show up opening day and never think about turkey again til Thanksgiving... just my opinion.
Quote from: Gobbler428 on February 25, 2023, 07:40:45 AM
Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 20, 2023, 10:35:18 AM
This is all semantics, but my personal differentiation would be that one operates within a framework of ethics and fair chase while the other operates from a belief of by any means necessary. I won't roost shoot. I won't fire at birds on the wing. I won't fire at birds on the run. I want to win the game, and plenty of days they just flat beat you. If that means not killing, so be it. I'll be back tomorrow.
Agree wholeheartedly