We all try to figure in what might be causing Turkey declines in some areas of the country. One thing that never seems to be mentioned is "Technological Advances in Equipment". I remember as if it were yesterday when I harvested my first gobbler in the early 80's. My equipment included the following: Remington 1100 12 gauge Magnum with a glossy wood stock and a 30 inch barrel. It had front and rear beads. I used #4 (3) inch Remington Duck/Pheasant loads in a green and White box. I never patterned the gun, it had a fixed-full choke. I wore an Army Tiger-stripe camo jacket and pants, Herman Survivor Work boots, a Woodland camo hat and tiger stripe bandana as a face mask. I used a Quaker Boy Old Boss Hen mouth Diaphragm, and a Lynch Box Call. I harvested my first Tom at 30 yards, no scope, just lined up the barrel beads and let it rip. As I drove by an Army Navy Store today on my way to a gun club meeting, I reminisced of my first gobbler harvest. It made me stop and realize that all the advances in our firearms, shells/shot, camo, optics, clothing, GPS/Cell phones etc. are definitely contributing to increased hunter success. I miss, and will always remember my early days of Turkey hunting, these memories will be with me for a lifetime.
Great post Tom, i Remember the first club i was ever in, 20 members but only 5 turkey hunters, we always camped the first few weekends, 4 of the guys i went to high school with, one old guy, Buddy, some good times. we had some birds also!
Quote from: 3bailey3 on March 20, 2022, 09:52:54 PM
Great post Tom, i Remember the first club i was ever in, 20 members but only 5 turkey hunters, we always camped the first few weekends, 4 of the guys i went to high school with, one old guy, Buddy, some good times. we had some birds also!
Amen my friend. Thank god for the memories. Next time I am stopping in that Army/ Navy shop to look at that old style camo again......be safe
Yep, there was nuttin like putting an Ol pie plate out there at 25 paces and taking a wack at it with #4's. Then saying I'm ready :icon_thumright:
Yea, forgot about the Ol' Pie Plate....... :fud:
Unfortunately, one of the largest reasons for declining turkey populations, is declining habitat.
Improved utilization of agricultural land, with less fallow corners... Clear-cutting ditches for better irrigation, more people, and more land being turned into residential areas... etc... All probably contribute to declining numbers, far more than improved hunter success due to technology.
I have always been a fan of hunters being the stewards of their own sport though... Maybe scoped guns, shooting TSS, with chokes capable of shooting long ranges should be considered by hunters... As should "reaping..." Or mechanical decoys...
While I am not generally for regulation, I do think that ethical hunters need to draw some lines in the sand... I would hope there would be an outcry from hunters if electric calling devices or live decoys were allowed to be put in play... Of course we need a line in the sand, but where that line should be is up for debate..
Quote from: Marc on March 20, 2022, 10:06:54 PM
Unfortunately, one of the largest reasons for declining turkey populations, is declining habitat.
Improved utilization of agricultural land, with less fallow corners... Clear-cutting ditches for better irrigation, more people, and more land being turned into residential areas... etc... All probably contribute to declining numbers, far more than improved hunter success due to technology.
I have always been a fan of hunters being the stewards of their own sport though... Maybe scoped guns, shooting TSS, with chokes capable of shooting long ranges should be considered by hunters... As should "reaping..." Or mechanical decoys...
While I am not generally for regulation, I do think that ethical hunters need to draw some lines in the sand... I would hope there would be an outcry from hunters if electric calling devices or live decoys were allowed to be put in play... Of course we need a line in the sand, but where that line should be is up for debate..
Agreed, habitat and many factors are contributing to some decline. Ethics in any sport can help save the day, let's hope they play a key role in maintaining our passion for future generations to enjoy......
Good post Tom i so agree, i remember the days we were lucky to hear a couple gobblers a season. We were lucky just to find some gobblers to hunt... So many of these people are missing out on asking questions about how to just hunt these birds and challenges we faced. What we have experienced in chasing these gobblers. I feel we all have got caught up in guns, shells, vests, gun dipping best camo .... phone apps maps etc...
Quote from: Greg Massey on March 20, 2022, 10:12:40 PM
Good post Tom i so agree, i remember the days we were lucky to hear a couple gobblers a season. We were lucky just to find some gobblers to hunt... So many of these people are missing out on asking questions about how to just hunt these birds and challenges we faced. What we have experienced in chasing these gobblers. I feel we all have got caught up in guns, shells, vests, gun dipping best camo .... phone apps maps etc...
You bet Greg, I am "Guilty as charged" on the equipment fetish. I love collecting anything Turkey, and am always striving to improve my equipment, hopefully resulting in clean, ethical harvests.....we all owe it to this beautiful quarry we all pursue......be safe.
Yep sure miss the good ole days. Before everybody and their brother started turkey hunting. Chasing the birds in 3 or more states, using YouTube spots along with every other advancement.
I was fortunate to be brought up into Turkey hunting in the good years! When I started I could walk on every inch of the 1800acre block behind my parents house and never have to worry about a property line. I could miss 3 birds in a day and still kill one. I would wear blue jeans and a hand me down woolrich flannel shirt. I shot a 20ga 870 wing master with a modified barrel.
I went through the days of carrying 10 calls and a 3.5" 12ga but have came back to a 20ga and carry a diaphragm and a slate call. I've also completely stopped hunting the farm country around the house and only chase them in the mountains. Turkey hunting to me is way more fun when you keep it simple!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: bushangler on March 20, 2022, 11:47:50 PM
I was fortunate to be brought up into Turkey hunting in the good years! When I started I could walk on every inch of the 1800acre block behind my parents house and never have to worry about a property line. I could miss 3 birds in a day and still kill one. I would wear blue jeans and a hand me down woolrich flannel shirt. I shot a 20ga 870 wing master with a modified barrel.
I went through the days of carrying 10 calls and a 3.5" 12ga but have came back to a 20ga and carry a diaphragm and a slate call. I've also completely stopped hunting the farm country around the house and only chase them in the mountains. Turkey hunting to me is way more fun when you keep it simple!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good point, sometimes more can be too much....
Correct. Although this will likely never be addressed due to the fact it would make the choke/shell guys, the decoy guys, the pop up blind guys etc within the industry loose a lot of money. Even the NWTF and TFT are a lost cause with it. Nwtf still continues to pimp out the decoys and blinds at local banquets, they are in big with them as well as jerking them off in the Turkey Call magazine. I was told by an insider with TFT they'd be taking a stance on these controversial topics and so far I've just heard crickets. Sigh... oh well money, money, money.
Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on March 21, 2022, 07:35:13 AM
Correct. Although this will likely never be addressed due to the fact it would make the choke/shell guys, the decoy guys, the pop up blind guys etc within the industry loose a lot of money. Even the NWTF and TFT are a lost cause with it. Nwtf still continues to pimp out the decoys and blinds at local banquets, they are in big with them as well as jerking them off in the Turkey Call magazine. I was told by an insider with TFT they'd be taking a stance on these controversial topics and so far I've just heard crickets. Sigh... oh well money, money, money.
I am in favor of advancements in technology. Technology has brought more opportunity to our sport regarding lighter gauge guns to be effective in taking turkeys by youngsters and others who in the past could not participate. It's nice to see our sport able to offer an abundance of options regarding hunting styles and equipment that participants can chose to utilize while enjoying time in the field.
Many hunters couldn't even use that technology without information. I believe in handing it down but when I started no one told you anything. That made learning curves hard. These newer hunters don't know how good they have it
Tom a little off topic, but growing up in south Jersey, hunting pine barrens, 60's thru 80's, never saw or heard of turkeys. When did Jersey open a season on them?
80s, to clarify only in northwest part of state were there birds. I remember first time I saw one all the way south in hunterdon. I was amazed. Now the real southern part of state is the way north Jersey was. Birds all over.
The one thing Tom didn't say, it was hard to get a permit when the state first opened. I remember first few years only getting one every few years and not even a week a or e at that
I grew up turkey hunting in the 60's in Florida. We had more turkeys to hunt and less turkey hunters then. This was pre cell phone, social media, NWTF, TSS, small video cameras and the look at me mentality.
Quote from: guesswho on March 21, 2022, 08:27:07 AM
I grew up turkey hunting in the 60's in Florida. We had more turkeys to hunt and less turkey hunters then. This was pre cell phone, social media, NWTF, TSS, small video cameras and the look at me mentality.
Hit the nail on the head
Quote from: Bowguy on March 21, 2022, 08:20:43 AM
Many hunters couldn't even use that technology without information. I believe in handing it down but when I started no one told you anything. That made learning curves hard. These newer hunters don't know how good they have it
Amen Mike, I sure wish I had a mentor. Learned trial by error, but probably made me a better hunter....
I think we did to some extent, I remember riding by all deer camps during deer season to see who had bucks hanging from their deer poles. Always remember the talk when groups got together about who shot what. Know its not comparing "apples to apples" with WWW going on, but we did like to show off.
Quote from: JeffC on March 21, 2022, 08:22:07 AM
Tom a little off topic, but growing up in south Jersey, hunting pine barrens, 60's thru 80's, never saw or heard of turkeys. When did Jersey open a season on them?
Hi Jeff, I believe they stocked birds in Northern NJ in 1977. They spread into South Jersey in the past decade. I believe the first NJ spring season started in 1981. Fall hunting started in 1997.
Quote from: Tom007 on March 21, 2022, 08:13:04 AM
Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on March 21, 2022, 07:35:13 AM
Correct. Although this will likely never be addressed due to the fact it would make the choke/shell guys, the decoy guys, the pop up blind guys etc within the industry loose a lot of money. Even the NWTF and TFT are a lost cause with it. Nwtf still continues to pimp out the decoys and blinds at local banquets, they are in big with them as well as jerking them off in the Turkey Call magazine. I was told by an insider with TFT they'd be taking a stance on these controversial topics and so far I've just heard crickets. Sigh... oh well money, money, money.
I am in favor of advancements in technology. Technology has brought more opportunity to our sport regarding lighter gauge guns to be effective in taking turkeys by youngsters and others who in the past could not participate. It's nice to see our sport able to offer an abundance of options regarding hunting styles and equipment that participants can chose to utilize while enjoying time in the field.
Interesting, didn't think you'd feel that way considering your original post.
I have the complete opposite mindset. I don't want any further advancements.
I wish we had the technology current that we had about 7 years ago.
I wish folks wanting to hunt public ground to have to do the research on boundaries and purchase Topo maps from the USGS or some other entity. Not be able to view public lands and boundary lines and topography from an app.
Folks are strapping decoys to their heads, to remote control cars, and adding the most realistic lifelike features. A fired up field strutter faces almost certain death against these methods.
Shooting TSS at 80 yards out of a 150 dollar choke and killing a gobbler shallows the experience of the hunt, and IMO is a disgrace to the turkey. Yet it is applauded.
YouTube and Facebook group popularity are at an all time high, bringing more and more hunters into pressured ground.
The popularity of slams and traveling is hurting these off the beaten path states which just a few years ago saw virtually zero pressure.
Folks are getting priced out of leases due to the outrageous turkey craze.
I'd rather see methods of take restricted (such as using male decoys, pop up blinds, TSS, etc) rather than cutting bag limits and season dates. These advancements in technology you speak of I will place blame on for the overkilling of turkeys rather than limits or season lengths.
Quote from: Bowguy on March 21, 2022, 08:20:43 AM
Many hunters couldn't even use that technology without information. I believe in handing it down but when I started no one told you anything. That made learning curves hard. These newer hunters don't know how good they have it
The best Turkey hunter I have ever saw was my father. He only used diaphragms and if he knew a bird was around it was in big trouble. He never used a decoy and killed turkeys with woodsmanship.
Problem is when I had him around I thought I knew more than he did and never listened to him.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I remember when my brother and I would take our kids some 20 years ago. They would carry a single shot 410 or a 20 ga and if the turkey didn't come within 25 yards they didn't shoot. Nowadays gobbler's are being shot at 50 yards with a 410. Some time technology just shouldn't be used.
I've been turkey hunting for 30 years and I say the the 'Good Ol Days' are now. The birds are harder to hunt but they make you think. The time you hunt is now not yesterday. I have cancer and the outlook is 75% cured after surgery. I say every day you can get out there is the Good Ol Days enjoy them. Cherish every day you can get out. And hunt the very best you can. the birds deserve our best. let's give it to them. :z-twocents:
Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on March 21, 2022, 11:21:14 AM
Quote from: Tom007 on March 21, 2022, 08:13:04 AM
Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on March 21, 2022, 07:35:13 AM
Correct. Although this will likely never be addressed due to the fact it would make the choke/shell guys, the decoy guys, the pop up blind guys etc within the industry loose a lot of money. Even the NWTF and TFT are a lost cause with it. Nwtf still continues to pimp out the decoys and blinds at local banquets, they are in big with them as well as jerking them off in the Turkey Call magazine. I was told by an insider with TFT they'd be taking a stance on these controversial topics and so far I've just heard crickets. Sigh... oh well money, money, money.
I am in favor of advancements in technology. Technology has brought more opportunity to our sport regarding lighter gauge guns to be effective in taking turkeys by youngsters and others who in the past could not participate. It's nice to see our sport able to offer an abundance of options regarding hunting styles and equipment that participants can chose to utilize while enjoying time in the field.
Interesting, didn't think you'd feel that way considering your original post.
I have the complete opposite mindset. I don't want any further advancements.
I wish we had the technology current that we had about 7 years ago.
I wish folks wanting to hunt public ground to have to do the research on boundaries and purchase Topo maps from the USGS or some other entity. Not be able to view public lands and boundary lines and topography from an app.
Folks are strapping decoys to their heads, to remote control cars, and adding the most realistic lifelike features. A fired up field strutter faces almost certain death against these methods.
Shooting TSS at 80 yards out of a 150 dollar choke and killing a gobbler shallows the experience of the hunt, and IMO is a disgrace to the turkey. Yet it is applauded.
YouTube and Facebook group popularity are at an all time high, bringing more and more hunters into pressured ground.
The popularity of slams and traveling is hurting these off the beaten path states which just a few years ago saw virtually zero pressure.
Folks are getting priced out of leases due to the outrageous turkey craze.
I'd rather see methods of take restricted (such as using male decoys, pop up blinds, TSS, etc) rather than cutting bag limits and season dates. These advancements in technology you speak of I will place blame on for the overkilling of turkeys rather than limits or season lengths.
No one can't change or halt technological advances. I pretty much hunt turkeys in a traditional manner, I do have optics on my guns due to the fact that I only have vision in one eye. This post reflects the fact that the new technology sure is changing the game in Turkey hunting. I like the forums rule of not discussing or advocating shots over 40 yards. I pattern all my Turkey guns at 30 yards. This is my zone, 30 yards on in. This is my choice. This whole TSS, long distance shooting topic boils down to ethics. Each person makes decisions on how they want to hunt. There is big money in all of this, that's why it won't go away. Rules, laws, and guidelines are only effective if people understand and follow them. That's why sometimes I think the "good old days" we're not so bad.
I often wonder if the increased use of turkey manure* on fields has introduced diseases that they (Wild turkey) otherwise would not have become subjected to? I do not recall anybody using turkey manure* when I was growing up, it was pretty much either pig or cow manure* and maybe some chicken in the home gardens of those that had them.
The other thing and people have gotten made at me here before is the equipment is much more efficient now, it cuts much closer to the ground, goes faster and does not leave behind as much as it used to. (I mainly think of corn with this last part of my sentence) and because of that I think more nests, hens and poults getting ran over and there is less waste corn on the ground for the animals to eat. Also I see in my area every hedgerow and woods is cut down when it is clearly unneeded, this last has also contributed to flooding and other problems in the area.
Quote from: guesswho on March 21, 2022, 08:27:07 AM
I grew up turkey hunting in the 60's in Florida. We had more turkeys to hunt and less turkey hunters then. This was pre cell phone, social media, NWTF, TSS, small video cameras and the look at me mentality.
Bingo!! You win the internet today.
Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on March 21, 2022, 11:21:14 AM
Quote from: Tom007 on March 21, 2022, 08:13:04 AM
Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on March 21, 2022, 07:35:13 AM
Correct. Although this will likely never be addressed due to the fact it would make the choke/shell guys, the decoy guys, the pop up blind guys etc within the industry loose a lot of money. Even the NWTF and TFT are a lost cause with it. Nwtf still continues to pimp out the decoys and blinds at local banquets, they are in big with them as well as jerking them off in the Turkey Call magazine. I was told by an insider with TFT they'd be taking a stance on these controversial topics and so far I've just heard crickets. Sigh... oh well money, money, money.
I am in favor of advancements in technology. Technology has brought more opportunity to our sport regarding lighter gauge guns to be effective in taking turkeys by youngsters and others who in the past could not participate. It's nice to see our sport able to offer an abundance of options regarding hunting styles and equipment that participants can chose to utilize while enjoying time in the field.
Interesting, didn't think you'd feel that way considering your original post.
I have the complete opposite mindset. I don't want any further advancements.
I wish we had the technology current that we had about 7 years ago.
I wish folks wanting to hunt public ground to have to do the research on boundaries and purchase Topo maps from the USGS or some other entity. Not be able to view public lands and boundary lines and topography from an app.
Folks are strapping decoys to their heads, to remote control cars, and adding the most realistic lifelike features. A fired up field strutter faces almost certain death against these methods.
Shooting TSS at 80 yards out of a 150 dollar choke and killing a gobbler shallows the experience of the hunt, and IMO is a disgrace to the turkey. Yet it is applauded.
YouTube and Facebook group popularity are at an all time high, bringing more and more hunters into pressured ground.
The popularity of slams and traveling is hurting these off the beaten path states which just a few years ago saw virtually zero pressure.
Folks are getting priced out of leases due to the outrageous turkey craze.
I'd rather see methods of take restricted (such as using male decoys, pop up blinds, TSS, etc) rather than cutting bag limits and season dates. These advancements in technology you speak of I will place blame on for the overkilling of turkeys rather than limits or season lengths.
Bingo again!!! You tie guesswho with the internet post of the day.
It needs to slow down. At what point do we say enough is enough with technology? It might not be "THE" cause for population declines, but if gobbler carryover matters for breeding, it has played a role somewhat. It can't be debated.....technology has made it easier to hunt and kill turkeys. No doubt about it. OnX and other technology holds one's hand and leads you to locales that once required boot leather and deciphering a map through the fear of getting lost. So, where one or two might venture, now ten do. Advancements such as this, along with the marketing and accessibility of limitless information through social media have proven to "dummy" it down. Is that a positive for turkey hunters? On the surface, Yes in some ways. But, does that outweigh the negatives? I would say no way.
I agree 110% and have thought the same things. If you want to reduce harvests and increase gobbler carryover while still allowing the most hunt opportunity (which is days allowed to hunt), then prohibit decoys, reaping, remote operated decoys, etc. You can still allow more days afield, thus promoting hunter opportunity, while balancing the harvest. We are at the point I'm not sure self-policing is an effective strategy unfortunately, because of the current culture. It's past the point of enough hunters placing the resource and the future above self gratification.
Quote from: greencop01 on March 21, 2022, 05:50:00 PM
I've been turkey hunting for 30 years and I say the the 'Good Ol Days' are now. The birds are harder to hunt but they make you think. The time you hunt is now not yesterday. I have cancer and the outlook is 75% cured after surgery. I say every day you can get out there is the Good Ol Days enjoy them. Cherish every day you can get out. And hunt the very best you can. the birds deserve our best. let's give it to them. :z-twocents:
I wish you well my friend, god bless you and enjoy a safe season....
I floated that idea a year or two ago. It doesn't set well with many. We are in the age when everyone wants unlimited cake and no belly ache.
Quote from: El Pavo Grande on March 21, 2022, 07:09:44 PM
Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on March 21, 2022, 11:21:14 AM
Quote from: Tom007 on March 21, 2022, 08:13:04 AM
Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on March 21, 2022, 07:35:13 AM
Correct. Although this will likely never be addressed due to the fact it would make the choke/shell guys, the decoy guys, the pop up blind guys etc within the industry loose a lot of money. Even the NWTF and TFT are a lost cause with it. Nwtf still continues to pimp out the decoys and blinds at local banquets, they are in big with them as well as jerking them off in the Turkey Call magazine. I was told by an insider with TFT they'd be taking a stance on these controversial topics and so far I've just heard crickets. Sigh... oh well money, money, money.
I am in favor of advancements in technology. Technology has brought more opportunity to our sport regarding lighter gauge guns to be effective in taking turkeys by youngsters and others who in the past could not participate. It's nice to see our sport able to offer an abundance of options regarding hunting styles and equipment that participants can chose to utilize while enjoying time in the field.
Interesting, didn't think you'd feel that way considering your original post.
I have the complete opposite mindset. I don't want any further advancements.
I wish we had the technology current that we had about 7 years ago.
I wish folks wanting to hunt public ground to have to do the research on boundaries and purchase Topo maps from the USGS or some other entity. Not be able to view public lands and boundary lines and topography from an app.
Folks are strapping decoys to their heads, to remote control cars, and adding the most realistic lifelike features. A fired up field strutter faces almost certain death against these methods.
Shooting TSS at 80 yards out of a 150 dollar choke and killing a gobbler shallows the experience of the hunt, and IMO is a disgrace to the turkey. Yet it is applauded.
YouTube and Facebook group popularity are at an all time high, bringing more and more hunters into pressured ground.
The popularity of slams and traveling is hurting these off the beaten path states which just a few years ago saw virtually zero pressure.
Folks are getting priced out of leases due to the outrageous turkey craze.
I'd rather see methods of take restricted (such as using male decoys, pop up blinds, TSS, etc) rather than cutting bag limits and season dates. These advancements in technology you speak of I will place blame on for the overkilling of turkeys rather than limits or season lengths.
Bingo again!!! You tie guesswho with the internet post of the day.
It needs to slow down. At what point do we say enough is enough with technology? It might not be "THE" cause for population declines, but if gobbler carryover matters for breeding, it has played a role somewhat. It can't be debated.....technology has made it easier to hunt and kill turkeys. No doubt about it. OnX and other technology holds one's hand and leads you to locales that once required boot leather and deciphering a map through the fear of getting lost. So, where one or two might venture, now ten do. Advancements such as this, along with the marketing and accessibility of limitless information through social media have proven to "dummy" it down. Is that a positive for turkey hunters? On the surface, Yes in some ways. But, does that outweigh the negatives? I would say no way.
I agree 110% and have thought the same things. If you want to reduce harvests and increase gobbler carryover while still allowing the most hunt opportunity (which is days allowed to hunt), then prohibit decoys, reaping, remote operated decoys, etc. You can still allow more days afield, thus promoting hunter opportunity, while balancing the harvest. We are at the point I'm not sure self-policing is an effective strategy unfortunately, because of the current culture. It's past the point of enough hunters placing the resource and the future above self gratification.
El Pavo,
If and it's a big IF turkey are in decline due to lack of gobbler carryover, I'd much rather see method of take restricted rather than reduction in bag limit or shortening of seasons. I will be interested in the data from Bama and if they can some how correlate a lower harvest with decoys being banned first 10 days. I don't hunt with decoys, or blinds, I don't need TSS to kill turkey, yes OnX makes things significantly easier for me but
I can due without it if there was a way a state could ban it.
Other than reducing harvest shortening seasons and lowering bag limits does nothing else other than reduce man days in woods. Which sure, more men in the woods for more days surely can effect nesting or whatever.
But if these biologists are hell bent on reducing bag limits due to the fact it'll stop the declines, restrict method of take. Not the number of turkeys I can kill. I will continue to be able to kill while the guy who relys on his strutter decoy and pop up blind will struggle.
The problem is a lot of us remember the days of old and we just don't want to give up the ground we all have gained in hunting these birds. You have to look back and think we were lucky to see and hear a gobbler in the woods and after the stocking programs became a major success and gobblers were becoming more plentiful and during these early times of the golden years we had fewer turkey hunters. So again it's just hard to give up our gains from the days of old to the golden years of yesterday. As Happy said we still want the whole cake and not just a small piece.
The good old days are whenever I'm in the woods hunting and a turkey gobbles. Back in the day it was much tougher to find Gobblers to hunt. I once went 20 days of straight out hard hunting all day long before I heard my 1st gobble of the season. Now there many more turkeys in the states and areas I hunt.
The hard part now is finding birds that aren't getting hammered by every Tom, Dick, and Harry. The work is about the same it just happens for a different reason now days.
I can't go back quite as far as some folks and can't hold a candle to Guesswho, but I can go back with turkeys as far as 1990.........Winchester tree bark box # 6s, camo hats that stood a good 4" or so above your head, original real tree or mossy oak camo, VHS tapes, camo tape shotguns, and a pile of new turkey hunters everywhere that didn't know what we were doing.
I wouldn't mind some limitations. I can go back to #6 lead and the double bead, although my eyes aren't going to appreciate the bead thing. I'm not sure lead will actually be legal forever. They'll eventually push for all nontoxic shot, especially on federal lands, and I sure as heck don't want steel.
It'd probably be rough on a few guys but they'd figure it out. Heck, we did. I'd be okay if some of them gave up though. I don't recall turkeys being a bit harder to kill in 1990 than they are now, besides my lack of experience at the time. Turkeys gobbled, I yelped, clucked and cutt, and occasionally they walked in and I killed them. I think I do the same thing now.
However, that ain't bringing your turkey numbers back around. If hens aren't producing a steady stream of poults, your numbers are declining and hens aren't producing poults worth a dang. Gobbler carryover won't stop the decline, unless you mean 100% gobbler carryover because we cut out spring season altogether.
I miss some of the good ole days too, but not because I'm using that as an easy explanation for the decline in turkey numbers.
Quote from: Hobbes on March 22, 2022, 01:08:45 AM
I can't go back quite as far as some folks and can't hold a candle to Guesswho, but I can go back with turkeys as far as 1990.........Winchester tree bark box # 6s, camo hats that stood a good 4" or so above your head, original real tree or mossy oak camo, VHS tapes, camo tape shotguns, and a pile of new turkey hunters everywhere that didn't know what we were doing.
I wouldn't mind some limitations. I can go back to #6 lead and the double bead, although my eyes aren't going to appreciate the bead thing. I'm not sure lead will actually be legal forever. They'll eventually push for all nontoxic shot, especially on federal lands, and I sure as heck don't want steel.
It'd probably be rough on a few guys but they'd figure it out. Heck, we did. I'd be okay if some of them gave up though. I don't recall turkeys being a bit harder to kill in 1990 than they are now, besides my lack of experience at the time. Turkeys gobbled, I yelped, clucked and cutt, and occasionally they walked in and I killed them. I think I do the same thing now.
However, that ain't bringing your turkey numbers back around. If hens aren't producing a steady stream of poults, your numbers are declining and hens aren't producing poults worth a dang. Gobbler carryover won't stop the decline, unless you mean 100% gobbler carryover because we cut out spring season altogether.
I miss some of the good ole days too, but not because I'm using that as an easy explanation for the decline in turkey numbers.
Amen my friend, I sure remember those Winchester shells in the Trebark box, WOW. Wish I had them now...
For me, my "good ol' days " are everyday I am In the bush hunting,whether It's the wild turkey,bear,whitetails,moose,grouse. The only reason why I would ever want to go back to the early days of my youth in the 80's and early 90's is because It would mean I have more days ahead than I do now at my age.
I don't miss the clothing that was not warm enough, or I don't miss my younger days when I had to scratch to be able to buy something I wanted. I am proud of what I do now, I haven't really changed my hunting "ways" much, other than I now carry a 20 gauge sometimes,my range will always be ethical, and I carry a new bow or 2 every year. I can only speak for myself but I enjoy being comfortable hunting when it is -35 late season bow hunting, or -12 the first first week or 2 of season in the spring.
I don't use onyx, I hunt all private land and honestly have ran into 2 other turkey hunters in 20 years, one of them is a scumbag poacher theif who I have turned in, the other is an outstanding hunter and a close friend of my dads.
I feel for the people who have to deal with tons of people and pressure, even our deer hunting has declined in numbers,I don't let others bother me when I am in the woods, or try not to and I try and stay out of the online bickering and stuff, I would rather just talk about equipment online, I try and keep my "hunts" and my hunting ways, a personal experience with a select few. I don't share them because I create them for myself, not somebody else.
Tom007, I respect your posts and view points, I myself being 42 have come to realize the greatest piece of advice my dad ever told me was, have fun,respect the animals and hunt by the law, you won't have to be looking over your shoulder worrying about somebody all the time.
Good luck to all this spring.April 25th can't get here fast enough. I'll still be toting my heavy,long Browning bps nwtf and lead#6's into the woods.
I do miss all that I started In 83.
Yeah the tiger stripe camo ,
H&r 10 ga. , Quaker boy slate, all the land I wanted to hunt no boundaries. And then it became a business.
And I believe that's when the downfall began.
Television, internet ,timber companies seeing how much they can get for a track of timber for us boys to hunt on.
It boils down to the almighty dollar.
But I am gonna hunt and enjoy , knowing my grandkids will never see the good days like I did.
I have mixed feelings about how to answer this. After contemplating it I will simply say I have enjoyed the journey, it has molded me as a man, hunter, husband, father and last of all a hunter. I was born with a passion for the outdoors and wildlife. Turkey hunting has filled that cup of passion until it overflowed and poured out in to other's cups. I have done a lot of it wrong and learned a lot of what is right. I have damaged my relationships at home over it and made many new friends that I will never forget. It has both fueled my tank and drained it. I have righted all the wrongs I can and built on the good. As far as turkeys go, I do not miss the old days of 3 day seasons, only hearing one bird, only knowing one spot to hunt, of having poor equipment and lack of knowledge. I do not miss being a jerk who chose turkey hunting over being home for my daughter's birthdays and being a pissed off arshole when turkey hunting didn't go well. I am quite content with the wealth of birds we now have, the great gear, the great friends and a proper perspective that turkey hunting is a recreational pursuit and not an end all of life. It's ok to love it and be passionate, but it does not come before God, Family, Health and country.
I have said my piece and I am at peace just where I am
To further clarify, I am not advocating limiting legal means of take from a "I am better than you"standpoint. I just feel that there needs to be a line drawn where hunter success rates are at a sustainable level and those that truly enjoy hunting turkeys and are willing to work and pay their dues aren't getting the short end of the stick due to those that just want to kill turkeys for attention. I think making things a little more difficult would weed some of those type out. That and get rid of the internet.
Quote from: Bowguy on March 21, 2022, 08:28:01 AM
Quote from: guesswho on March 21, 2022, 08:27:07 AM
I grew up turkey hunting in the 60's in Florida. We had more turkeys to hunt and less turkey hunters then. This was pre cell phone, social media, NWTF, TSS, small video cameras and the look at me mentality.
Hit the nail on the head
First time I hunted turkeys in Florida , 3 lakes . An older guy and his wife checking in and I saw they where shooting 22 rifles all scoped out . He was telling me how easy it was for them to bag his limit . Times have changed yes sir.
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Quote from: camotoe on March 22, 2022, 01:44:04 PM
Quote from: Bowguy on March 21, 2022, 08:28:01 AM
Quote from: guesswho on March 21, 2022, 08:27:07 AM
I grew up turkey hunting in the 60's in Florida. We had more turkeys to hunt and less turkey hunters then. This was pre cell phone, social media, NWTF, TSS, small video cameras and the look at me mentality.
Hit the nail on the head
First time I hunted turkeys in Florida , 3 lakes . An older guy and his wife checking in and I saw they where shooting 22 rifles all scoped out . He was telling me how easy it was for them to bag his limit . Times have changed yes sir.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I started in the same area in 80's , yes rimfire rifles were acceptable ...some used 22mags ...we begged the state to get them banned , buck shot , and slugs were all eventually banned ..they did AFTER people were shot or worse KILLED
Back the 80's there were hardly any real turkey hunters ...many management areas had little competition, but you had to be very weary of "blue jean " hunters or bored deer and hog hunters who showed up cause they had nothing to do ...they roamed the oak hammocks of Florida shooting anything that looked like a turkey hen , Jake , gobbler or decoy ...it got shot at
It was very...very common to hear 3 and 5 shot sequences all morning long from all kinds of distances back in the day ...decoys ...I know people have Thier opinions of them but they became more and more prominent in usage and walk around novice hunters would shoot those instead of a hen or hunter ...or spot the decoy and a possible severe shooting incident was avoided ...I never ...repeat never hunt any piece of property in Florida without at least a hen decoy if a poacher or idiot shoots something...better mr plastic than you ...I've witnessed or been in close proximity of turkey hunters being shot and my opinion on the matter is permanent..if you don't like them ..you don't have to use them , they do however make a regular guy more lethal ..they do however make turkeys that were basically impossible to kill , huntable in some parts out west
Weapons ...I could write a book on turkey guns ... 40 yards was a stretch back in the 80's I would say the invention of screw turkey choke tubes in the last 40 years is the item that has dramatically improved the performance of turkey guns more than anything , more clean kills no more boom boom boom boom boom ...turkey gets away or crippled ..I think the common usage of decoys has a major hand in the dramatic reduction of turkey hunter shooting fatalities... Both Missouri and Pennsylvania were hot beds for fatal turkey hunter shootings ...I don't have the figures in front of me ...but those dark days are long gone
Tss ... Again you don't need it , many serious guys use it for the same reasons as choke tubes ...I'm seeing a resurrection of sub gauges and to me that means people just want a lighter gun to do the same thing and performance of Thier heavier 12 gauge with old loads ...there are of course a few people out there that have very little real world experience that can't be told different when you try to tell them that they are rolling the dice on those way long long shots ...some make ammunition, some sell the components..some drink the long shot Kool aid... Some actually film themselves or write about taking EXTREMELY long shots , even missing or crippling and them ..and post it publicly.. go figure
I could write a book about the past , current , and what the future of turkey hunting has in store for it ..the future is up to us ...we need to be RESPONSIBLE on what we do and say ...yes ive screwed up a shot or two everyone has , I'm raising my hand on that , learn from your mistakes and don't do them again ...many years ago we predicted all of the stuff your seeing today going on with people bragging about taking 70 , 80 and even longer shots with tss and what the end result would be ...one of our more profoundly intelligent members coined the phrase "is the future of turkey hunting a guy with high tech shotgun over a pile of corn?" Well is it ?
Yes I miss the days of listening to Ben Lee recordings to learn
how to call ...bumping around on lonely pine blocks and hammocks of Florida ...not another soul around for miles... The campfires , good stories .good times ...
Shannon
Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 22, 2022, 02:59:15 PM
Quote from: camotoe on March 22, 2022, 01:44:04 PM
Quote from: Bowguy on March 21, 2022, 08:28:01 AM
Quote from: guesswho on March 21, 2022, 08:27:07 AM
I grew up turkey hunting in the 60's in Florida. We had more turkeys to hunt and less turkey hunters then. This was pre cell phone, social media, NWTF, TSS, small video cameras and the look at me mentality.
Hit the nail on the head
First time I hunted turkeys in Florida , 3 lakes . An older guy and his wife checking in and I saw they where shooting 22 rifles all scoped out . He was telling me how easy it was for them to bag his limit . Times have changed yes sir.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I started in the same area in 80's , yes rimfire rifles were acceptable ...some used 22mags ...we begged the state to get them banned , buck shot , and slugs were all eventually banned ..they did AFTER people were shot or worse KILLED
Back the 80's there were hardly any real turkey hunters ...many management areas had little competition, but you had to be very weary of "blue jean " hunters or bored deer and hog hunters who showed up cause they had nothing to do ...they roamed the oak hammocks of Florida shooting anything that looked like a turkey hen , Jake , gobbler or decoy ...it got shot at
It was very...very common to hear 3 and 5 shot sequences all morning long from all kinds of distances back in the day ...decoys ...I know people have Thier opinions of them but they became more and more prominent in usage and walk around novice hunters would shoot those instead of a hen or hunter ...or spot the decoy and a possible severe shooting incident was avoided ...I never ...repeat never hunt any piece of property in Florida without at least a hen decoy if a poacher or idiot shoots something...better mr plastic than you ...I've witnessed or been in close proximity of turkey hunters being shot and my opinion on the matter is permanent..if you don't like them ..you don't have to use them , they do however make a regular guy more lethal ..they do however make turkeys that were basically impossible to kill , huntable in some parts out west
Weapons ...I could write a book on turkey guns ... 40 yards was a stretch back in the 80's I would say the invention of screw turkey choke tubes in the last 40 years is the item that has dramatically improved the performance of turkey guns more than anything , more clean kills no more boom boom boom boom boom ...turkey gets away or crippled ..I think the common usage of decoys has a major hand in the dramatic reduction of turkey hunter shooting fatalities... Both Missouri and Pennsylvania were hot beds for fatal turkey hunter shootings ...I don't have the figures in front of me ...but those dark days are long gone
Tss ... Again you don't need it , many serious guys use it for the same reasons as choke tubes ...I'm seeing a resurrection of sub gauges and to me that means people just want a lighter gun to do the same thing and performance of Thier heavier 12 gauge with old loads ...there are of course a few people out there that have very little real world experience that can't be told different when you try to tell them that they are rolling the dice on those way long long shots ...some make ammunition, some sell the components..some drink the long shot Kool aid... Some actually film themselves or write about taking EXTREMELY long shots , even missing or crippling and them ..and post it publicly.. go figure
I could write a book about the past , current , and what the future of turkey hunting has in store for it ..the future is up to us ...we need to be RESPONSIBLE on what we do and say ...yes ive screwed up a shot or two everyone has , I'm raising my hand on that , learn from your mistakes and don't do them again ...many years ago we predicted all of the stuff your seeing today going on with people bragging about taking 70 , 80 and even longer shots with tss and what the end result would be ...one of our more profoundly intelligent members coined the phrase "is the future of turkey hunting a guy with high tech shotgun over a pile of corn?" Well is it ?
Yes I miss the days of listening to Ben Lee recordings to learn
how to call ...bumping around on lonely pine blocks and hammocks of Florida ...not another soul around for miles... The campfires , good stories .good times ...
Shannon
Amen my friend....
As I read this post I had some mixed feelings. My first thought was of how many of you enjoy bamboo fly rods, single shot straight wall cartridges, and longbows. Second thoughts was Yeah I miss some aspects of the good old days, I miss the camaraderie of when there wasn't a competition amongst hunters, but I also enjoy today as well. I use TSS because I understand what I can do within its capabilities. I don't try to make it a silver bullet. I use onX because I'm a map nerd and other than my real time location, I find it no different holding it on a cell phone than a a piece of paper. I don't use decoys because I simply don't think it's a benefit to me. I hunt according to terrain and cover. Have I ever fanned a Tom...yes, will I do it again, probably, do I apologize nope, is it my preferred method, not at all but anything that allows me to interact with the game hunted I find exciting and I enjoy it be it vocals or visuals... and in my mind that's the only difference between calling and fanning... vocals or visuals. Remember that the plains Indians have been fanning birds and shooting them for centuries.
I Lastly I find some of these posts disturbing because I sense a bit of self righteous my way or no way attitude. Remember that we're all on the same team and while someone else might not do it like you do it that's not that their way is bad. It's just not what you enjoy. Kinda like duck hunting, bass fishing,or hunting with hounds. None of which I enjoy but still things that are fine for others.
Quote from: The Heartbreak Kid....... on March 22, 2022, 07:26:07 AM
For me, my "good ol' days " are everyday I am In the bush hunting,whether It's the wild turkey,bear,whitetails,moose,grouse. The only reason why I would ever want to go back to the early days of my youth in the 80's and early 90's is because It would mean I have more days ahead than I do now at my age.
I don't miss the clothing that was not warm enough, or I don't miss my younger days when I had to scratch to be able to buy something I wanted. I am proud of what I do now, I haven't really changed my hunting "ways" much, other than I now carry a 20 gauge sometimes,my range will always be ethical, and I carry a new bow or 2 every year. I can only speak for myself but I enjoy being comfortable hunting when it is -35 late season bow hunting, or -12 the first first week or 2 of season in the spring.
I don't use onyx, I hunt all private land and honestly have ran into 2 other turkey hunters in 20 years, one of them is a scumbag poacher theif who I have turned in, the other is an outstanding hunter and a close friend of my dads.
I feel for the people who have to deal with tons of people and pressure, even our deer hunting has declined in numbers,I don't let others bother me when I am in the woods, or try not to and I try and stay out of the online bickering and stuff, I would rather just talk about equipment online, I try and keep my "hunts" and my hunting ways, a personal experience with a select few. I don't share them because I create them for myself, not somebody else.
Tom007, I respect your posts and view points, I myself being 42 have come to realize the greatest piece of advice my dad ever told me was, have fun,respect the animals and hunt by the law, you won't have to be looking over your shoulder worrying about somebody all the time.
Good luck to all this spring.April 25th can't get here fast enough. I'll still be toting my heavy,long Browning bps nwtf and lead#6's into the woods.
Your dad's advice is a cornerstone for all of us and is the best advice any new hunter should always follow and remember. Amen to him, you too have a great, safe season......
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Nothing wrong with longbows just got to get them Close like turkey hunting.
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Wow, nice job!. That's traditional hunting. Congrats...
dont overthink it, and good luck
Great post Tom. Really brings back some old memories. I didn't start turkey hunting until I was past 40 so I missed out. But back then around where I live when you bought camo you took a visit to the Army Barn & got some woodland camo or plain old OD green to hunt in. And those 30" FC shotgun barrels was like TSS is now for turkeys back then.
Quote from: camotoe on March 23, 2022, 08:32:39 AM
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220323/17ac4ffccea000b4f6b508ba7542552e.jpg)
Nothing wrong with longbows just got to get them Close like turkey hunting.
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Nothing wrong with a longbow. I hunt some with Trad equipment and I've taken deer with Trad.