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Some trumpets have a bell but others do not.  What is the sound/functional difference if any. 

All trumpets have a bell, not all yelpers do—that whole all trumpets are yelpers but not all yelpers are trumpets idea—but that's just syntax and I know what you're intending. Cool history in how the bell came to develop, but skipping all that, it most assuredly alters the tone and directional qualities of sound. The bigger thing, though, it allows for a pile more modulation to that sound. Simply put, you can do a whole lot more with it.


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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on March 12, 2022, 07:11:01 PM
All trumpets have a bell, not all yelpers do, but that's just syntax and I know what you're intending. Cool history in how the bell came to develop, but skipping all that, it most assuredly alters the tone and directional qualities of sound. The bigger thing, though, it allows for a pile more modulation to that sound. Simply put, you can do a whole lot more with it.


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I wish you hadn't skipped all that. :) I don't believe I have ever heard how the bell came to be developed, but I sure would like to. or pointed in the right direction to read and learn about it. Great explanation by the way, I was just intrigued by the bell development.

Quote from: Gobbler-one on March 13, 2022, 12:02:49 AM
I wish you hadn't skipped all that. :) I don't believe I have ever heard how the bell came to be developed, but I sure would like to. or pointed in the right direction to read and learn about it. Great explanation by the way, I was just intrigued by the bell development.

I'll likely butcher parts of this and if so I hope others will add to it, but Turpin is who is most often attributed the development of the bell, and I would argue rightfully so. One could argue some of the Roanokes (not a trumpet) had a slight bell shaped taper and there were some mail order calls with that shape, but here's why Turpin gets the credit.

The typical yelper evolution goes wingbone (thousands of years old) and then the next step is a toss up with Roanokes and Jordans (also not trumpets) both coming late 1800s. I tend to lean Roanoke here and so in my mind wingbone, Roanoke, Jordan with no connection existing that we know of between Roanokes and Jordans or Roanokes and what comes next.

What happens next, though, and what's our purpose of conversation here, is Turpin discovers plans for one of Charles Jordan's three piece cane calls in an issue of Field and Stream. This is nineteen teens. Turpin starts fooling with the dimensions and doesn't exactly love it, thinks something might be off, actually manages to track down an original late 1800s call that belonged to Jordan and borrows it. He models what comes after to these segmented dimensions and likely internals. He makes some traditional Jordans but then here's where the development comes. Instead of cutting and fitting cane to form the three piece construction he turns the barrel and throat sections from wood. He also uses a .22 Savage casing to fit the throat to the mouthpiece. What we get is a short three piece construction like a Jordan but with a turned barrel and flared bell, as well as the casing which is the first step in design toward ferrules. They call these 1917 style calls. Jump forward a few years to say 1920 and Turpin removed the mid section altogether running his taper straight from barrel to throat. Now you're basically at a modern trumpet in a lot of ways with a turned barrel that has a flared bell, brass casing ferrule, and mouthpiece. These calls are still very short and quick with lengths still in that Jordan range. But what comes after is really just the lengthening and dialing of that call in my mind.

You get to something like the Davis style calls and they're really just lengthening that 1920 Turpin design, stretching out and altering those internals. I think Turpin gets the credit, one, because it's documented, and, two, because he not only develops the bell but also what becomes the ferrule. Before that it was just thread wraps and glue.

One thing I've always been curious about is how style of play developed. I'd really like to know when that choke hold, finger stoppering the bell, two hand method developed because that's the other thing the bell does; the bell lends itself to that style of play. That's not how you play a Jordan. That is on the other hand the best way to play Roanokes. This left me also really curious whether Turpin would've been familiar with or ever held a Roanoke style call and most historians think that wasn't real likely, or at least that it didn't play a major role in the development of his design.

Long winded, and only really interesting to a few probably, but personally I think it's just neat as hell.


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Thanks, I found this very interesting.

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on March 13, 2022, 08:13:22 AM
I think Turpin gets the credit, one, because it's documented, and, two, because he not only develops the bell but also what becomes the ferrule. Before that it was just thread wraps and glue.

Very good explanation, David. I will note that in his book, The wild Turkey and its Hunting, Edward Avery McIlhenny notes Jordan's description of his cane yelper as "Then a nice nickel-plated ferrule or thimble is fitted on the cane to prevent splitting, and the sloping end is wrapped with silk", so I'm not sure you can give Turpin credit for the ferrule.

Quote from: EZ on March 13, 2022, 09:16:19 AM
Very good explanation, David. I will note that in his book, The wild Turkey and its Hunting, Edward Avery McIlhenny notes Jordan's description of his cane yelper as "Then a nice nickel-plated ferrule or thimble is fitted on the cane to prevent splitting, and the sloping end is wrapped with silk", so I'm not sure you can give Turpin credit for the ferrule.

Good point! You're absolutely right, Tony. My personal bias probably tried to take as much credit away from Jordan as I can , and it actually has nothing to do with Jordan but my disdain of McIlhenny! So maybe casings as ferrules to Turpin, but the ferrule itself to Jordan.


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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on March 13, 2022, 09:27:53 AM

Quote from: EZ on March 13, 2022, 09:16:19 AM
Very good explanation, David. I will note that in his book, The wild Turkey and its Hunting, Edward Avery McIlhenny notes Jordan's description of his cane yelper as "Then a nice nickel-plated ferrule or thimble is fitted on the cane to prevent splitting, and the sloping end is wrapped with silk", so I'm not sure you can give Turpin credit for the ferrule.

Good point! You're absolutely right, Tony. My personal bias probably tried to take as much credit away from Jordan as I can , and it actually has nothing to do with Jordan but my disdain of McIlhenny! So maybe casings as ferrules to Turpin, but the ferrule itself to Jordan.

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This made me start thinking about who used Ivory as a mouthpiece first. My research points to Tom Turpin, wondering if anyone has any information that might shine a light on this.

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on March 13, 2022, 09:27:53 AM

Quote from: EZ on March 13, 2022, 09:16:19 AM
Very good explanation, David. I will note that in his book, The wild Turkey and its Hunting, Edward Avery McIlhenny notes Jordan's description of his cane yelper as "Then a nice nickel-plated ferrule or thimble is fitted on the cane to prevent splitting, and the sloping end is wrapped with silk", so I'm not sure you can give Turpin credit for the ferrule.

Good point! You're absolutely right, Tony. My personal bias probably tried to take as much credit away from Jordan as I can , and it actually has nothing to do with Jordan but my disdain of McIlhenny! So maybe casings as ferrules to Turpin, but the ferrule itself to Jordan.


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And I make my "Jordan style" yelpers with a rifle casing. Maybe I should call it Jordan-Turpin style, lol.

Quote from: Chris Brumfiel on March 13, 2022, 09:35:41 AM
This made me start thinking about who used Ivory as a mouthpiece first. My research points to Tom Turpin, wondering if anyone has any information that might shine a light on this.

No Jordans exist with ivory mouthpieces and I've never seen or heard of a Roanoke with one (the whole concept of a Roanoke being centered around the use and fragility of a hen bone mouthpiece), so I'd say you're right.


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Quote from: EZ on March 13, 2022, 09:35:59 AM
And I make my "Jordan style" yelpers with a rifle casing. Maybe I should call it Jordan-Turpin style, lol.

I like that, Tony! And here's what I love most about what you do and why I think your work is important. Most folks are making Jordan-STYLE calls. They're not making Jordans. Me and you are together on this, that the second you move away from the cane construction and into turned wooden segments you've butchered the history. Maybe butchered is a strong word, but you've simplified and taken away from what makes true Jordans so hard to get exactly right: the inconsistency of cane. It takes a great deal of skill to tune something that inconsistent. You can alleviate all of that with drill presses and turning. That to say, thanks for keeping the history alive.


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I have had the honor of holding, and playing a real Jordan, and it had a very nice ferrule on it. As far ivory I've also seen a very early Turpin with a ivory mouth piece.

Hey, if the American Indians had a lathe, maybe they wouldn't have used wingbones, lol. Most of the stuff throughout history was based on a need and develope with what materials and technology they had (or didn't have) at the time.

 If they had a compound bow and a lathe we would all be wind talkers.  :laugh:
Good thread

Quote from: ol bob on March 13, 2022, 10:11:35 AM
I have had the honor of holding, and playing a real Jordan, and it had a very nice ferrule on it. As far ivory I've also seen a very early Turpin with a ivory mouth piece.

The earliest one that I've seen was made in 1945 by Tom. I've never held one, let alone play one. Maybe one day.

Quote from: EZ on March 13, 2022, 10:13:45 AM
Hey, if the American Indians had a lathe, maybe they wouldn't have used wingbones, lol. Most of the stuff throughout history was based on a need and develope with what materials and technology they had (or didn't have) at the time.

If only the Indians had carbide blades and a lathe, what a different world it would be. Lol!

I enjoy using cane and bones to craft a call the "old school" way.
I am, however, eternally grateful for epoxy, lol.

Getting back to the OP's question, some of y'all jumping in are much more proficient callers than me and I'd be interested to hear what advantages you find in running a yelper with a bell as well as how your style of play differs between running say a Jordan which doesn't have one versus a trumpet which does? EZ, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and especially hear how your hand hold changes or doesn't change depending if you're running a Jordan versus a trumpet.

I'd also be interested in hearing preferences for bell design, say a more closed bell like Anthony Ellis or slightly more open like Permar or more open like Prudhomme. The idea of bells turns out to be a rather deep subject


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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on March 13, 2022, 10:39:03 AM
Getting back to the OP's question, some of y'all jumping in are much more proficient callers than me and I'd be interested to hear what advantages you find in running a yelper with a bell as well as how your style of play differs between running say a Jordan which doesn't have one versus a trumpet which does? EZ, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and especially hear how your hand hold changes or doesn't change depending if you're running a Jordan versus a trumpet.

I'd also be interested in hearing preferences for bell design, say a more closed bell like Anthony Ellis or slightly more open like Permar or more open like Prudhomme. The idea of bells turns out to be a rather deep subject


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I hold my yelpers and other's Trumpets the same. It's the call itsself that dictates whether it "needs" that finger at the bell end or not. Some need a little more back pressure than others. It's all in the individual design coupled with your style of calling and it's fun figuring out what the call "likes".

Quote from: EZ on March 13, 2022, 10:50:06 AM

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on March 13, 2022, 10:39:03 AM
Getting back to the OP's question, some of y'all jumping in are much more proficient callers than me and I'd be interested to hear what advantages you find in running a yelper with a bell as well as how your style of play differs between running say a Jordan which doesn't have one versus a trumpet which does? EZ, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and especially hear how your hand hold changes or doesn't change depending if you're running a Jordan versus a trumpet.

I'd also be interested in hearing preferences for bell design, say a more closed bell like Anthony Ellis or slightly more open like Permar or more open like Prudhomme. The idea of bells turns out to be a rather deep subject


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I hold my yelpers and other's Trumpets the same. It's the call itsself that dictates whether it "needs" that finger at the bell end or not. Some need a little more back pressure than others. It's all in the individual design coupled with your style of calling and it's fun figuring out what the call "likes".

X2 Tony, I run them all the same way as you, it depends on the call.

 Its been my experience that trumpets with a smaller bell end are way easier to play . Or maybe thats just cox trumpets in general . I have some others with a larger bell and i cant play them for crap

Is there more versatility in tone with A  bell?


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Quote from: 901CritterGitter on March 13, 2022, 12:18:04 PM
Its been my experience that trumpets with a smaller bell end are way easier to play . Or maybe thats just cox trumpets in general . I have some others with a larger bell and i cant play them for crap

It sounds like you need to place more of your finger over the bell, i.e. modulate more. If you haven't already, you might want to watch Ralph Permars' instructional video on You Tube. He explains and shows you how to do this.

Quote from: EZ on March 13, 2022, 09:16:19 AM

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on March 13, 2022, 08:13:22 AM
I think Turpin gets the credit, one, because it's documented, and, two, because he not only develops the bell but also what becomes the ferrule. Before that it was just thread wraps and glue.

Very good explanation, David. I will note that in his book, The wild Turkey and its Hunting, Edward Avery McIlhenny notes Jordan's description of his cane yelper as "Then a nice nickel-plated ferrule or thimble is fitted on the cane to prevent splitting, and the sloping end is wrapped with silk", so I'm not sure you can give Turpin credit for the ferrule.

Well not to stir the pot,

The Delawares have in their oral history the practice of wrapping thin silver wire around the joint of their 2 piece wingbone calls to keep the hide-glue from letting loose and falling apart in the middle of thunder storms. The first metal ferrel

This goes back to the 1700's

Quote from: crow on March 13, 2022, 01:49:57 PM

Quote from: EZ on March 13, 2022, 09:16:19 AM

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on March 13, 2022, 08:13:22 AM
I think Turpin gets the credit, one, because it's documented, and, two, because he not only develops the bell but also what becomes the ferrule. Before that it was just thread wraps and glue.

Very good explanation, David. I will note that in his book, The wild Turkey and its Hunting, Edward Avery McIlhenny notes Jordan's description of his cane yelper as "Then a nice nickel-plated ferrule or thimble is fitted on the cane to prevent splitting, and the sloping end is wrapped with silk", so I'm not sure you can give Turpin credit for the ferrule.

Well not to stir the pot,

The Delawares have in their oral history the practice of wrapping thin silver wire around the joint of their 2 piece wingbone calls to keep the hide-glue from letting loose and falling apart in the middle of thunder storms. The first metal ferrel

This goes back to the 1700's

I'll be darned....see there, you never quit learning on this site. Thanks Crow.

Quote from: crow on March 13, 2022, 01:49:57 PM
Well not to stir the pot,

The Delawares have in their oral history the practice of wrapping thin silver wire around the joint of their 2 piece wingbone calls to keep the hide-glue from letting loose and falling apart in the middle of thunder storms. The first metal ferrel

This goes back to the 1700's

That's really cool, [mention]crow [/mention]!


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 :TooFunny:

 Is it generally correct to say that a well controlled trumpet will make more/better turkey sounds than a yelper but a yelper should be easier to master?

Quote from: Brillo on March 14, 2022, 07:37:37 PM
Is it generally correct to say that a well controlled trumpet will make more/better turkey sounds than a yelper but a yelper should be easier to master?

Both calls being equal, depends on the individual.

Very interesting  read . As EZ said there you go , if you listen you can learn everyday ....