Okay ....there is a issue I'm going to make you all aware of , I received a unverified report from a employee that I will not reveal that Seirr@ club is engaged in the practice of applying for quota hunts on management areas to make sure hunters don't get them ..it's a significant percentage too
Story goes the game commission (undisclosed) looked into it and researched who the people are , I've been hearing stories and rumors anti's doing this as far back as 1993
If you notice the name isn't spelled correctly that's so we are no liable for slander and defamation ..do not use Thier whole name they like to sue in court as a weapon
Let me know if any of your states have heard of any type of activity
I've heard the same but not necessarily from a specific organization. However, none of that surprises me.
I can attest to a lot of no shows for various quota hunts in FL.
Having standby permits available would help negate the manipulation of the quota system.
It wouldn't be perfect, but would provide a few more opportunities to the locals within an hour or so of the WMA.
It worked for duck hunting, but still lots of opportunities lost with Standby hunters not showing as well.
I wouodnt doubt it. One of our wma only give 10 turkey quotas for each of 3 phases. You will be lucky to get a quota and might only see 2 other people the entire time
Prostaff member for Old Crow Custom Calls
Sierr@ club sucks. They're trying to screw a big piece of our hunt areas. They've salso been instrumental in closing our bear hunt
https://www.change.org/p/national-park-service-stop-the-delaware-water-gap-from-becoming-a-national-park
Hope you don't mind if I post this but if anyone could sign/share it's appreciated
It may not be a rumor they are applying for quota permits in Fla. There was the same consensus that they purchased our Bear tags in NJ with a cost of only $2.00 a tag. Now there after our federal and state land. I would get all your sportsman agency's in Florida involved before it's to late.
I don't know if the S. Club or any other such organization might be doing this, but I suspect there are some that are and this will probably get worse over time UNLESS there are measures put in place by game and fish agencies to prevent it. Such measures can be implemented, but it takes a willingness for those agencies to step up and make the effort. We'll see if they do...
Quote from: squidd on March 07, 2022, 09:19:05 PM
I can attest to a lot of no shows for various quota hunts in FL.
Same for SC. My last turkey draw hunt, I was the only hunter to show up the morning of the hunt.
We have had problems here with people filling up hunters training courses to be sure others that really want to get the training can't, so this would not surprise me at all.
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 08, 2022, 07:45:09 AM
I don't know if the S. Club or any other such organization might be doing this, but I suspect there are some that are and this will probably get worse over time UNLESS there are measures put in place by game and fish agencies to prevent it. Such measures can be implemented, but it takes a willingness for those agencies to step up and make the effort. We'll see if they do...
Supposedly, ours here in FL are working on some changes. Not sure if it's in response to these types of issues or not, but I would believe from past experience it's highly unlikely. I think I remember reading that you have a background in wildlife management or something to that degree? I at least have read previous posts where it seems like if it wasn't vocationally you've been around it enough to have a pretty good understanding and it seems you are knowledgeable in the area.
So, since we're having some dialogue... Do you have any suggestions for such a measure? Also thoughts on ways to sway them towards willingness to make such necessary changes?
Quote from: FLGobstopper on March 08, 2022, 08:33:28 AM
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 08, 2022, 07:45:09 AM
I don't know if the S. Club or any other such organization might be doing this, but I suspect there are some that are and this will probably get worse over time UNLESS there are measures put in place by game and fish agencies to prevent it. Such measures can be implemented, but it takes a willingness for those agencies to step up and make the effort. We'll see if they do...
Supposedly, ours here in FL are working on some changes. Not sure if it's in response to these types of issues or not, but I would believe from past experience it's highly unlikely. I think I remember reading that you have a background in wildlife management or something to that degree? I at least have read previous posts where it seems like if it wasn't vocationally you've been around it enough to have a pretty good understanding and it seems you are knowledgeable in the area.
So, since we're having some dialogue... Do you have any suggestions for such a measure? Also thoughts on ways to sway them towards willingness to make such necessary changes?
They were able to find some here by repeated phone numbers or repeated email addresses.
its for sure happening in FL. There's one wma that we keep eyeballing who applies for it. Its the same handfull of people. There is an 89 year old man applying for the hunt. No chance these people are going on these hunts. They return the permit at the last minute so they keep the points. They have it so that it takes up to 12 pts to get the hunt.
Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 07, 2022, 08:47:18 PM
Okay ....there is a issue I'm going to make you all aware of , I received a unverified report from a employee that I will not reveal that Seirr@ club is engaged in the practice of applying for quota hunts on management areas to make sure hunters don't get them ..it's a significant percentage too
Story goes the game commission (undisclosed) looked into it and researched who the people are , I've been hearing stories and rumors anti's doing this as far back as 1993
If you notice the name isn't spelled correctly that's so we are no liable for slander and defamation ..do not use Thier whole name they like to sue in court as a weapon
Let me know if any of your states have heard of any type of activity
So what's their point in doing this? Like what are the benefits to the sc for putting in all the draws. Sorry if that's a dumb question. Interesting topic!
Quote from: Ross R on March 08, 2022, 11:49:06 AM
its for sure happening in FL. There's one wma that we keep eyeballing who applies for it. Its the same handfull of people. There is an 89 year old man applying for the hunt. No chance these people are going on these hunts. They return the permit at the last minute so they keep the points. They have it so that it takes up to 12 pts to get the hunt.
here is a run down of what was going on about 20 years ago ..and what is going on with "gaming the permit system" a totally different issue than anti's hoarding them
You used to be able to buy a management stamp and apply ..if you got a permit they were TRANSFERABLE ...what hunters were doing was spending $2,000 to 3,000 in management stamps and having every family member in Thier extended family apply and get permits ...this went on untill there was a public outcry and the state took away the transferability
Next ...the state allowed you to bring a buddy a hunting buddy and share the permit but only one of you could kill the deer or in this case a turkey ....it took a few years for the same people to build up (preference points ) and we are right back to nearly the same point we were 15 years ago...but when your family member wins the permit ..they MUST ACCOMPANY you on the hunt
If your grandmother , aunt , cousin whatever gets a permit ...they can turn it back in and KEEP THE PREFERENCE points ...one area I know takes 8 years to get a permit , the reason why people keep flipping the permits ..how do I know because people are winning them ,(8 years of points) and turning them back in )because they have several family members with that amount of points ...and they go for a redraw in the pot and your odds are like 1 in a 1000 of getting that
1)I'm proposing that you are not allowed to bring hunting buddies in a permit like it used to be 15 years ago ..they closed the gate on one problem and opened another
2) I'm proposing that if you turn them back in you loose half your points ..or can only do it one time the next time you do it you aquire negative points
Florida only kills 700 gobblers statewide on Thier type 1 wmas and this bd has got to stop
I
The seirra club I'm am going to look into there social media and meetings and I will find out what they are up to , I promise you that
I've heard of it happening for limited entry permits here in the West, but can't validate the claim. If anyone ever gives a green light on grizzly, you can almost bet on something like that happening.
The same is now happening in Missouri for the extremely limited bear draw and more particularly, the next to impossible elk draw. There's less than a handful of elk tags handed out in total, and anti's were applying like crazy to try and draw the tag and not allow the conservation department their honest research and management of the heard in the area of reintroduction. It's honestly comical they think they're saving the recently reintroduced animals by taking the tag from a hunter, because then the heard management and logistical research for heard longevity doesn't take place.
Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 08, 2022, 12:52:42 PM
The seirra club I'm am going to look into there social media and meetings and I will find out what they are up to , I promise you that
Here they are, complaining about the Panther Refuge Hunt
https://www.sierraclub.org/florida/blog/2021/05/turkey-hunting-panther-refuge
QuoteHere they are, complaining about the Panther Refuge Hunt
https://www.sierraclub.org/florida/blog/2021/05/turkey-hunting-panther-refuge
Quote"There may be up to 230, but could be as low as 120 adult Florida panthers left in Florida.
That is the most laughable quote in there.
Quote from: Ross R on March 08, 2022, 03:02:48 PM
QuoteHere they are, complaining about the Panther Refuge Hunt
https://www.sierraclub.org/florida/blog/2021/05/turkey-hunting-panther-refuge
Quote"There may be up to 230, but could be as low as 120 adult Florida panthers left in Florida.
That is the most laughable quote in there.
\
I'll say.
Not to sidetrack but is there anywhere to see the required points for Florida in the limited hunts and the trends over the years?
Quote from: FLGobstopper on March 08, 2022, 08:33:28 AM
So, since we're having some dialogue... Do you have any suggestions for such a measure? Also thoughts on ways to sway them towards willingness to make such necessary changes?
I think the most obvious and simplest solution to part of this problem is to have a "stand-by" option for hunts wherein someone that doesn't show up for a hunt gets replaced with a stand-by hunter (I am aware that systems like that are already in place in some places). That would eliminate those folks from applying that think if they get a permit with no intention of going, they are not accomplishing their goal of preventing someone else from hunting. Of course, a system like that has its faults, as well, in that it obviously favors those hunters that live close to the hunt areas in question and can easily be at the check-in locations to see if someone does not show up, but it would make those folks that we are discussing think twice about wasting their time applying for these hunts.
I personally believe provisions against this kind of stuff could be incorporated into the hunter harassment laws that a lot of states have. Not sure if Florida has one, but if not, it is probably time for an effort to be made to get one. Here in New Mexico, a part of the application process is that you have to check a box to "attest" to certain things, such being a resident (if applying for a resident license), or having completed a hunter safety course, or not being a felon, and such. I see no reason why anybody applying for a hunting license could not be required to attest that they are actually planning on using the permit to go hunting and are not applying just to take away the opportunity for someone else to hunt.
Attesting to such, and then being found out to be someone who is not a hunter and is just trying to impersonate an actual hunter could be ruled (through appropriate legislation) to constitute fraud and adequate deterrents could put in place such as significant fines and/or jail time. Some language could be incorporated into the application process that said something like this:
"I attest that I am applying for this permit as an individual who has a legitimate interest in using this permit, should I be drawn, to hunt for the species of game being applied for. Further, I attest that my intent in applying for this permit is not to eliminate the opportunity of another individual to obtain this permit in an effort to prevent the legal harvest of the game in question. I understand that providing false testimony herein is a violation of ____ code and is subject to a fine of ___ dollars and/or imprisonment for up to ____ months/years.
I think something like that legislated into law would probably eliminate the concerns for much of this kind of stuff. No doubt, there are some folks who would probably show up and pretend like they were actually hunting as a last resort, but I doubt that would be a significant problem. Keep in mind also that wildlife managers set harvest goals for these kinds of hunts. Anti-hunters not using permits they might acquire would result in harvest goals not being met, which means that the number of hunts/permits could be increased correspondingly, which in turn would eventually make those folks realize that they were just spending their time and money needlessly.
I suspect others here probably have good ideas as to how this kind of thing could be prevented, as well.
Finally, as I stated before, states have to have a wildlife agency that actually wants to try to prevent this kind of stuff from happening and will go to the lengths needed to stop it. There are no doubt agencies that are less inclined to do that than others. I don't know how Florida fits into that picture. Whether the wildlife management agency there can be swayed depends a lot on who is running the show, I think. However, the first step is for sportsmen to unite and challenge the agency to do something about stuff like this and see what happens. :icon_thumright:
Florida's problem is making the state too attractive to those north of the Mason-Dixon Line for migration who bring their mores with them. When you choose to move to the South, leave your liberal ideas where you came from. Assimilate.
A take from the west....
Sierr@ and other organizations have been active in AZ for decades trying to sabotage hunting. They've moved on from the stone age protests, throwing paint, and slashing tires to playing the political field which has increased their success.
Every year they introduce ballot initiatives to stop mt lion and bobcat hunts. This year they've included spring bear with the ultimate goal to ban it entirely. Our politicians play both sides of the fence and often agree to shorten seasons or decrease tags but won't go as far to ban it...yet. Its a victory for them, period. Their strategy is to end hunting one tag, season, or species at a time. Every bit they take away from us puts them closer to their end goal.
I've met a few people that openly admit to putting in for the big game tags hoping to steal the opportunity from a real hunter. Though the exact numbers and their effects would be hard to determine. I have personally witnessed them picnic at water holes and meadows banging tambourines and pie pans hoping to scare away game.
Since the west has so much public land, they've spearheaded efforts to close roads and make areas "walk in" or "seasonal entry" only. Ex: If you can't ban guns, limit the ammo. If you can't ban hunting, limit the access. Along with shorter seasons, less tags, and decreasing access they hope to reach their ultimate goal eventually.
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 08, 2022, 04:29:51 PM
Quote from: FLGobstopper on March 08, 2022, 08:33:28 AM
So, since we're having some dialogue... Do you have any suggestions for such a measure? Also thoughts on ways to sway them towards willingness to make such necessary changes?
I think the most obvious and simplest solution to part of this problem is to have a "stand-by" option for hunts wherein someone that doesn't show up for a hunt gets replaced with a stand-by hunter (I am aware that systems like that are already in place in some places). That would eliminate those folks from applying that think if they get a permit with no intention of going, they are not accomplishing their goal of preventing someone else from hunting. Of course, a system like that has its faults, as well, in that it obviously favors those hunters that live close to the hunt areas in question and can easily be at the check-in locations to see if someone does not show up, but it would make those folks that we are discussing think twice about wasting their time applying for these hunts.
I personally believe provisions against this kind of stuff could be incorporated into the hunter harassment laws that a lot of states have. Not sure if Florida has one, but if not, it is probably time for an effort to be made to get one. Here in New Mexico, a part of the application process is that you have to check a box to "attest" to certain things, such being a resident (if applying for a resident license), or having completed a hunter safety course, or not being a felon, and such. I see no reason why anybody applying for a hunting license could not be required to attest that they are actually planning on using the permit to go hunting and are not applying just to take away the opportunity for someone else to hunt.
Attesting to such, and then being found out to be someone who is not a hunter and is just trying to impersonate an actual hunter could be ruled (through appropriate legislation) to constitute fraud and adequate deterrents could put in place such as significant fines and/or jail time. Some language could be incorporated into the application process that said something like this:
"I attest that I am applying for this permit as an individual who has a legitimate interest in using this permit, should I be drawn, to hunt for the species of game being applied for. Further, I attest that my intent in applying for this permit is not to eliminate the opportunity of another individual to obtain this permit in an effort to prevent the legal harvest of the game in question. I understand that providing false testimony herein is a violation of ____ code and is subject to a fine of ___ dollars and/or imprisonment for up to ____ months/years.
I think something like that legislated into law would probably eliminate the concerns for much of this kind of stuff. No doubt, there are some folks who would probably show up and pretend like they were actually hunting as a last resort, but I doubt that would be a significant problem. Keep in mind also that wildlife managers set harvest goals for these kinds of hunts. Anti-hunters not using permits they might acquire would result in harvest goals not being met, which means that the number of hunts/permits could be increased correspondingly, which in turn would eventually make those folks realize that they were just spending their time and money needlessly.
I suspect others here probably have good ideas as to how this kind of thing could be prevented, as well.
Finally, as I stated before, states have to have a wildlife agency that actually wants to try to prevent this kind of stuff from happening and will go to the lengths needed to stop it. There are no doubt agencies that are less inclined to do that than others. I don't know how Florida fits into that picture. Whether the wildlife management agency there can be swayed depends a lot on who is running the show, I think. However, the first step is for sportsmen to unite and challenge the agency to do something about stuff like this and see what happens. :icon_thumright:
Rather than create yet another law, why not just do away with limited entry permits altogether or issue them as hunters enter the area?
Quote from: Spurs Up on March 08, 2022, 07:05:38 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 08, 2022, 04:29:51 PM
Quote from: FLGobstopper on March 08, 2022, 08:33:28 AM
So, since we're having some dialogue... Do you have any suggestions for such a measure? Also thoughts on ways to sway them towards willingness to make such necessary changes?
I think the most obvious and simplest solution to part of this problem is to have a "stand-by" option for hunts wherein someone that doesn't show up for a hunt gets replaced with a stand-by hunter (I am aware that systems like that are already in place in some places). That would eliminate those folks from applying that think if they get a permit with no intention of going, they are not accomplishing their goal of preventing someone else from hunting. Of course, a system like that has its faults, as well, in that it obviously favors those hunters that live close to the hunt areas in question and can easily be at the check-in locations to see if someone does not show up, but it would make those folks that we are discussing think twice about wasting their time applying for these hunts.
I personally believe provisions against this kind of stuff could be incorporated into the hunter harassment laws that a lot of states have. Not sure if Florida has one, but if not, it is probably time for an effort to be made to get one. Here in New Mexico, a part of the application process is that you have to check a box to "attest" to certain things, such being a resident (if applying for a resident license), or having completed a hunter safety course, or not being a felon, and such. I see no reason why anybody applying for a hunting license could not be required to attest that they are actually planning on using the permit to go hunting and are not applying just to take away the opportunity for someone else to hunt.
Attesting to such, and then being found out to be someone who is not a hunter and is just trying to impersonate an actual hunter could be ruled (through appropriate legislation) to constitute fraud and adequate deterrents could put in place such as significant fines and/or jail time. Some language could be incorporated into the application process that said something like this:
"I attest that I am applying for this permit as an individual who has a legitimate interest in using this permit, should I be drawn, to hunt for the species of game being applied for. Further, I attest that my intent in applying for this permit is not to eliminate the opportunity of another individual to obtain this permit in an effort to prevent the legal harvest of the game in question. I understand that providing false testimony herein is a violation of ____ code and is subject to a fine of ___ dollars and/or imprisonment for up to ____ months/years.
I think something like that legislated into law would probably eliminate the concerns for much of this kind of stuff. No doubt, there are some folks who would probably show up and pretend like they were actually hunting as a last resort, but I doubt that would be a significant problem. Keep in mind also that wildlife managers set harvest goals for these kinds of hunts. Anti-hunters not using permits they might acquire would result in harvest goals not being met, which means that the number of hunts/permits could be increased correspondingly, which in turn would eventually make those folks realize that they were just spending their time and money needlessly.
I suspect others here probably have good ideas as to how this kind of thing could be prevented, as well.
Finally, as I stated before, states have to have a wildlife agency that actually wants to try to prevent this kind of stuff from happening and will go to the lengths needed to stop it. There are no doubt agencies that are less inclined to do that than others. I don't know how Florida fits into that picture. Whether the wildlife management agency there can be swayed depends a lot on who is running the show, I think. However, the first step is for sportsmen to unite and challenge the agency to do something about stuff like this and see what happens. :icon_thumright:
Rather than create yet another law, why not just do away with limited entry permits altogether or issue them as hunters enter the area?
That would be terrible to do away with any limited entry/ quota hunts, or to "issue them as hunters enter the area". On one hand areas such as South FL pub land limited entry WMA's which boast good harvest numbers would within a year or two more than likely produce similar harvest stats to what say Big Cypress or Corbett is on a harvest-to acreage level (forgive me as the last sentence might not have made much sense, I was struggling to come up with the correct terminology). Hunter enjoyment would absolutely plummet from South Florida to Alaska. High value units for Elk or Mule Deer in say Wyoming would be over run with hunters, the reason being they are so sought after due to either high success, or big bulls would be ruined.
If I am reading the second part of your statement correctly, that also would be very unfair. For example I live in Mississippi, I have wanted to hunt Bighorn Sheep for as long as I remember. If the tags were issued based on who "enters the area first" that would heavily favor local hunters. How could I possibly get from Mississippi before a fella from say Cody WY could get into primo Sheep territory?
Thanks for the links ...yes you can see they are doing thier best to undermine hunting..the "Panthers " don't get me started that is the biggest hoax ever sold to Florida taxpayers ..they pull that card out anytime they want to obstruct
The anti's went full bore with the bear hunt and succeeded..the then governor caved right away
As you can see they are well organized...the question is , are we going to live in denial , and wait till the horse runs off before we close the gate ?
Replacement hunts like what are done at the Florida s.t.a. waterfowl hunts are a huge success , but when there were 120-160 guys trying to get in on a handful of available permits things went out of control ..and then the fwc started doing the replacement hunts online
I think a better alternative would be what California has with Thier waterfowl hunts and do the lotto the night before ...in person
Quote from: Spurs Up on March 08, 2022, 07:05:38 PM
Rather than create yet another law, why not just do away with limited entry permits altogether or issue them as hunters enter the area?
I am assuming by this comment you mean that in limited-permit hunt areas, that it would be on a first-come, first-served basis until the max number of hunters was met. If this is the case, I can tell you exactly what will happen because we used to have a similar system here in NM for leftover big game tags. Our G&F Dept. would allot the leftovers at a certain date and time at several locations around the state on that FC/FS system.
People would start lining up at the sales locations DAYS in advance of the sale, some camping out in front of the sales location in parking lots and such. Although I did not witness any (because I was not willing to stand in line for days), supposedly fights broke out between hunters when someone had to go use the bathroom and left their spot and then tried to get back in line. Those of us that were not willing to stand in line for hours or days had no chance of getting a permit because the guys that had the time and wherewithal to do that would get them.
I can tell you without hesitation that doing what you are suggesting would be a nightmare for both hunters and the agency managing the hunts. Well-written hunter-harassment laws are the way to go with sufficient penalties to discourage the type of stuff this thread is about. Do that, and have a fair lottery system in place for permits. That is the way to go.
Don't you have to have a management area stamp/ hunting license to apply for our permits? If so that would mean they are also taking the hunters safety course to purchase the license/management area stamp....unless they are all born prior to '75
I'm sure you've noticed how few WMAs have actual manned check stations now. That exacerbates these concerns. As one who witnessed first hand the total joke the old transferable permits were I was ready for just about anything else. Lots of holes in the current system but much better than the old one. Being able to simply apply for a preference point is much needed. My hunting buddy and I have applied for permits we knew we would probably return for no reason other than to build the points. Playing the hands we're dealt. I really have little problem with the Guest Permits under their current restrictions. My friend, with 7 points, drew a WMA that is almost out my backdoor. I have the guest permit. He didn't return it. We will hunt it. His points will then be Zero.I've been actively scouting it since December. It is a one bird per permit area not one of the 2/1 areas (2 per permit but only one per person). We rarely apply for these areas since we normally don't want to both exhaust our coveted preference points in any given year. I guess we are the new "gamers" but again it is the hand we are dealt. My avatar is from our last WMA quota hunt in 2017. I used my points for this one. My friend was the guest. His accumulation of points got us this season's draw. Tough game. One easy change would be to add some accountability in the redraws. With no points being used there is no preference point penalty for a redraw winner if they don't show up. A hunter that draws a regular permit, doesn't show, doesn't return it in time to be reissued will lose all preference points.
"Do away with limited entry permits.". I'm going to assume that you just don't have experience with the reason behind these permits in any state. With a very limited resource, sheep, goat, moose, cats,etc., there has to be limited hunting opportunities. Lining them up at the gate isn't going to work. It also serves to give opportunity for a better hunt, Osceolas on a WMA, trophy elk or mule deer in a well managed unit, etc.
Unless you are a MT game commissioner, then all reason and science should be tossed out the window, and the wealthy should have special accomodations.
Quote from: btodd00 on March 08, 2022, 10:30:12 PM
Don't you have to have a management area stamp/ hunting license to apply for our permits? If so that would mean they are also taking the hunters safety course to purchase the license/management area stamp....unless they are all born prior to '75
all they need is a management area stamp to apply. They are even doing it for the reissues.
Quote from: Ross R on March 09, 2022, 09:30:14 AM
Quote from: btodd00 on March 08, 2022, 10:30:12 PM
Don't you have to have a management area stamp/ hunting license to apply for our permits? If so that would mean they are also taking the hunters safety course to purchase the license/management area stamp....unless they are all born prior to '75
all they need is a management area stamp to apply. They are even doing it for the reissues.
Can you buy a management area stamp without the hunters safety credentials? I have always just bought the gold sportsman license and its been years since I have had to input my hunters safety info. I am curious now if you can buy the stamp without having the hunters safety certification
Sucks on the reissues, they are already a shot in the dark hoping to get one
A few recommendations I think are NOT that hard and could help possibly solve some of these issues at the lowest level, not just in FL but other states as well.
1. KEEP current requirement to have a valid wildlife management area permit to apply (if gaming is going on then at least money is going back into
the system; where and what that money is used for is topic another discussion)
2. ADD to apply for quota permit must have completed valid Hunter Ed requirements (great opportunity for organizations like NWTF, BHA, TTT, etc
to partner and help with R3 initiatives and if anti's do it at least they're getting an earful from hunter conservationists)
3. ADD If a hunt IS AWARDED must purchase valid resident or non-resident FL hunting license at least 30 days prior to hunt start date . IF NO
LICENSE IS PURCHASED AWARDED PERMIT voided and then reissued under redraw system with NO preference point restored. (this excludes
exempt hunters under age 16 & over 65) **** this could still allow some gaming however it would make it more money and harder to continue to game
system and a loss of points would start them back at 0
4. REMOVE the GUEST hunter option (that's going to piss some people off!!!)
5. ADD EXEMPTIONS (under 16 & over 65) for ALL WMA's and hunts under quota (encourages hunter recruitment and R3 initiatives and awards
lifelong outdoorsman
6. REDUCE the number of hunt choices for regular permit draws to 3 (helps to ensure people are actually using the awarded permits and cuts down
on number of
7. REDUCE the number of reissued permit choices to 2 (again I suspect people get them then do not use them because it's a nothing wagered,
nothing lost scenario
8. ADD must have already purchases a valid resident or non-resident FL hunting license to apply for reissue permits that start within 10-30 days
from the draw (this correlates with No. 3 above)
9. ADD option to purchase only a preference point (requirements No. 1 & 3 apply)
10. REQUIRE WMA check in and out each day hunted (this can be done virtually from your phone at kiosk at multiple areas throughout a WMA, all
one would have to do is scan QR code on their phone from the location and they're done) Use technology to at least keep track of who's in the woods
and monitor what's going on. This could even POSSIBLY be used for reissue of permits on a daily basis where WMA's do not have check stations. Lots of
kinks with that, but I think it could be done)
FL is at least finally getting with the times and has now initiated a Game tele-check system which is LONG overdue. At the way this state and some others are growing and developong, if we cannot monitor input and output it won't be too long before we're having much, much bigger problems than just people gaming systems and stealing hunts from hunters.
ADD EXEMPTIONS TO ALL HUNTS - you've got to be shi### me. Exemptions are the number one Florida problem. Florida has no idea how many actually hunt and fish and get minimal matching funds because of that. A few on some Florida forums are sure that since they're 65ers these darn quota rules don't apply to them. I doubt if there are 3 quota hunts that do allow "exempts" and they are crap hunts that already allow large amounts of legitimately drawn hunters. Still see no problem with the GUEST. Do away with the 2/1 hunts if that keeps you happy. We'll be doing a hard draw quota hunt Friday. It is one bird. One of us will call. One will shoot. We'll both be tickled. Re-draws the number one glitch and that could be easily fixed. Few believe that a resident gets no benefit in the regular draws but it is true. That's an easy fix also. It seems all those coming down and running around the romp and stomps while the wife and kids are visiting Disney's money talks.
BTW - you're Number 10 is pure fantasy. I'm 75 and know several who don't like computers or cell phones and would be completely shut out by this. Just won't happen. Dream on.
I just can't help reading through all this BS and wondering how Florida public land hunts look 20 years from now...
Quote from: joey46 on March 09, 2022, 01:15:54 PM
ADD EXEMPTIONS TO ALL HUNTS - you've got to be shi### me. Exemptions are the number one Florida problem. Florida has no idea how many actually hunt and fish and get minimal matching funds because of that. A few on some Florida forums are sure that since they're 65ers these darn quota rules don't apply to them. I doubt if there are 3 quota hunts that do allow "exempts" and they are crap hunts that already allow large amounts of legitimately drawn hunters. Still see no problem with the GUEST. Do away with the 2/1 hunts if that keeps you happy. We'll be doing a hard draw quota hunt Friday. It is one bird. One of us will call. One will shoot. We'll both be tickled. Re-draws the number one glitch and that could be easily fixed. Few believe that a resident gets no benefit in the regular draws but it is true. That's an easy fix also. It seems all those coming down and running around the romp and stomps while the wife and kids are visiting Disney's money talks.
BTW - you're Number 10 is pure fantasy. I'm 75 and know several who don't like computers or cell phones and would be completely shut out by this. Just won't happen. Dream on.
The several you know shouldn't have a problem then because they probably can't apply for quota permits in the first place and this exempts them from such a thing. I'm sure we could add a paper drop box option for those who have issues with technology.
Can you please explain how exemptions are such a big problem with actual facts and data? I know of 1 area that allows it and it's one of the best areas in the state according to actual hunter numbers and harvest rates.
I have helped many with their quota applications. I doubt if I'll often run over to a WMA and help with a cell phone scan or drop box. Ask some 17 to 64 year olds how thrilled they would be to spend time and preference points working on obtaining a very limited hunter number quota only to find several old geezers wandering around that didn't pay a dime in license fees or spend any effort to qualify for the hunt. They just showed up. Entitlements will doom a system.
https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/15/conservationists-buy-fishing-licence-to-create-tasmania-sized-net-free-zone?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16473016483175&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fenvironment%2F2022%2Fmar%2F15%2Fconservationists-buy-fishing-licence-to-create-tasmania-sized-net-free-zone
Take three minutes to read the above article.
Non Sportsman do it everywhere, doesn't matter the critter, they just want to keep it from you and me at all cost.