Utilized the power of public information to obtain these numbers on 7-day all game license sales for the months of March - May. Pretty staggering!
(https://i.imgur.com/iEsluAK.png)
Ignoring the drop in sales from COVID travel, still a 70% increase from 2019.
Follow the $. TN total harvest of 2021 right at 33,000 birds, down from 40,000 in 2020. 4 bird limit (ridiculous) in 2020 dropped to 3 birds (still too high) in 2021. TN will harvest itself to dismal numbers before long. 6 week season is ridiculous too. I don't know what the TWRA is thinking. Oh, follow the $.
Sales went up during covid.. everybody and there brother has hunted turkey season the last 2 years.. Tennessee never had any regulations or restrictions due to covid..
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Agree , lot more people hunted in 2020 than in 2021 in Tennessee for turkey, no way you can compare last years 2020 turkey harvest as a normal year. .. Nothing wrong with the bag limits in Tennessee now.. TWRA gives you the tools to hunt, in saying this, it doesn't mean that because they give you bag limit you have to kill that total number ... IMO... Nothing wrong with 6 week season either .. IMO ..
Quote from: Brockl12 on June 15, 2021, 03:37:33 PM
Sales went up during covid.. everybody and there brother has hunted turkey season the last 2 years.. Tennessee never had any regulations or restrictions due to covid..
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No, 7-day non-resident license sales did not. The data is right there.
Perhaps resident sales did. We all know the woods were way more crowded with so many people off work.
Your probably right about that..if I were gonna get non resident I would get the year myself..
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Ahh, the power of the video camera.
Need 2 bag limit and 4 week season for a while. IMO. I never killed 4 in a year off my farm when I could have.
Apparently all the traveling soldiers went straight from Mississippi to ole rocky top !!
Most of you fellas know why the out of state #s in the mid to upper states have sky rocketed .
All you have to do is click on " turkey hunt" you tube ....nuff said
Like too see the numbers for Non-resident yearly license. That would give you a clearer picture.
I guessing 2020 would have the highest # yearly NR licenses, could be wrong.
But double the # of NR licenses in 2021....times are a changing.
The power of social media and YouTube. The chickens are coming home to roost.
An OBVIOUS solution would be for states to do away with the 7 day "trip licenses" and require non-residents to purchase yearly licenses.
I remember Aaron from THP talking about how TN NR license was such a good deal or maybe the best deal in the country Got 4 turkeys(at the time) and all the deer you could kill. Now look at us LOL. we've got more hunters than turkeys Tn needs do away with the 7 day license and make everyone pony up the big money if they wanna hunt. Oosers will still come
Quote from: drake799 on June 15, 2021, 11:43:37 PM
I remember Aaron from THP talking about how TN NR license was such a good deal or maybe the best deal in the country Got 4 turkeys(at the time) and all the deer you could kill. Now look at us LOL. we've got more hunters than turkeys Tn needs do away with the 7 day license and make everyone pony up the big money if they wanna hunt. Oosers will still come
Well, TWRA did actually partner up with them for all that advertising. As well as Alabama DNR and Iowa DNR. Reckon TWRA hit their license goal # from the "partnership" AKA advertisement?
AL public land hunters really got the shaft. DNR partnership with THP to sell more licenses and encourage more hunters to use WMAs and therefore buy more WMA permits. Then after the season "Oops, our public lands got a problem. Better drastically reduce opportunity to save the turkey and alleviate pressure!" Not a good look for Bama DNR. Kind of ironic for THP to partner with a state and then immediately lose a tremendous amount of public land opportunity there.
Has anyone mentioned that several states shut off non-res license sales last year because of covid. Without looking it up I think KY, OH, IL, MT, HI just to name a few. That had to play a major role in concentrating hunters in states that didn't. Of those just mentioned I know KY and OH require a full pop license not a short term license for a non-res to turkey hunt. Living here in FL, where the southern half of the state is always hammered anyway, resident guys are genuinely ticked that a cheap short term license can be used. They did finally raise the price of the turkey license but it is still not a bad deal. Lots of politics involved everywhere.
That was a really the only problem I had with THP-when I realized they were getting paid to push license sales in TN and talk about what a good deal it was. And then go to other states and do the same
We humans are a terrible problem to have to endure.
Heck that's only 10-15% of KS NR sales. I may have to start travelling east if that's a bad year for pressure.
THP didn't get paid for partnering with states.
this trend is likely to be seen across many states. the draw to extend seasons and find states that are non res friendly will continue to put pressure on turkeys that cant be sustained
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on June 16, 2021, 01:45:23 AM
Quote from: drake799 on June 15, 2021, 11:43:37 PM
I remember Aaron from THP talking about how TN NR license was such a good deal or maybe the best deal in the country Got 4 turkeys(at the time) and all the deer you could kill. Now look at us LOL. we've got more hunters than turkeys Tn needs do away with the 7 day license and make everyone pony up the big money if they wanna hunt. Oosers will still come
Well, TWRA did actually partner up with them for all that advertising. As well as Alabama DNR and Iowa DNR. Reckon TWRA hit their license goal # from the "partnership" AKA advertisement?
AL public land hunters really got the shaft. DNR partnership with THP to sell more licenses and encourage more hunters to use WMAs and therefore buy more WMA permits. Then after the season "Oops, our public lands got a problem. Better drastically reduce opportunity to save the turkey and alleviate pressure!" Not a good look for Bama DNR. Kind of ironic for THP to partner with a state and then immediately lose a tremendous amount of public land opportunity there.
TN is great at exploiting our game and fish resources for the almighty dollar. It started with promoting the harvest of 3 does a day over the course of a 3.5 month long season in what continues to be a growing list of counties by adding a supplemental license charge. People thought that since it was legal to kill that many does, it obviously was ok because the state said so. And when we began to feel those effects on the deer herd the state never let up on the limits.
Then we wound up with CWD, which upon initial detection was already at one of the highest prevalence rates in the entire country, in one of the best deer regions in the state. They estimate it had been here 10-12 years before detection - despite concern from hunters and land managers that were observing drastic changes in our deer herd over that timespan. I've seen personally how that's being addressed and won't digress on a turkey forum.
But all that to say, the state is on a fast track to exploiting our turkeys in the same/similar fashion, and to what end? We can't even get the commission to acknowledge that in a state as ecologically diverse as TN from the western river bottoms to the eastern mountains, that a one-size fits all turkey program is not sustainable. I could go on, but to see the areas I hunt go from virtually no birds 30 years ago to the boom we saw in the late 90's - early 2000's to what it's digressed to today, and the commission to essentially take a wait and see approach, while promoting the remaining resource is concerning.
I don't claim to have all the answers to what is a complex problem, and I don't think taking away opportunity is the answer (days in the field), but neither is essentially promoting a resource that's on the decline.
And I'm not dogging on nonresidents at all. I hunt all over the country for turkey and other big game.
All that to say, none of this comes as a surprise to me.
Social Media....... Youtube.......
2536 non-resident licenses sold? That sure doesn't seem like much at all. With all the complaining from some on this forum, you'd think that number should have been tens of thousands. ::)
The 2021 non resident hunters must have been very unsuccessful compared to the 2020 hunters if harvest dropped from 40,000 to 32,000 while the number of hunters doubled from 2020 to 2021. If this is a trend developing, 2022 and beyond are going to be terrible.
Quote from: deadbuck on June 18, 2021, 10:35:00 AM
The 2021 non resident hunters must have been very unsuccessful compared to the 2020 hunters if harvest dropped from 40,000 to 32,000 while the number of hunters doubled from 2020 to 2021. If this is a trend developing, 2022 and beyond are going to be terrible.
Last year there were more local hunters in the woods than ever before. This year, many of them were back to work.
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Just received the annual license sales for non-residents during the months of March-May.
Comparisons are shown below.
Highlights:
45% in total non-resident license sales compared to 2017-2019 average
2020 did have an effect on non-residents traveling
2017-2019 was extremely stable
(https://i.imgur.com/Kk8nrxz.png)
Quote from: simpzenith on June 18, 2021, 09:24:34 AM
2536 non-resident licenses sold? That sure doesn't seem like much at all. With all the complaining from some on this forum, you'd think that number should have been tens of thousands. ::)
2,536 7-day licenses sold
5,689 total licenses sold
~1,700 more non-resident turkey hunters than the previous years. Probably half of those would be coming the first 10 days of Tennessee's season. The majority would be hunting public land.
The addition of ~800 more non-resident turkey hunters during the opening week of TN's season on public lands is rather substantial. Especially considering portions of TN already had some of the most pressured public land in the .
Yeah, no effect on hunting quality at all! ::)
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
When they drop bag limits, or limit the number of birds you can take
early in the season etcetera, they almost have to reduce the license
prices. If they don't people will stop going to that particular state.
They can't keep taking away opportunity while charging you the same
price.
Maybe that's what they want in the end - to reduce out-of-state hunter
numbers.
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on June 18, 2021, 11:15:11 AM
Quote from: simpzenith on June 18, 2021, 09:24:34 AM
2536 non-resident licenses sold? That sure doesn't seem like much at all. With all the complaining from some on this forum, you'd think that number should have been tens of thousands. ::)
2,536 7-day licenses sold
5,689 total licenses sold
~1,700 more non-resident turkey hunters than the previous years. Probably half of those would be coming the first 10 days of Tennessee's season. The majority would be hunting public land.
The addition of ~800 more non-resident turkey hunters during the opening week of TN's season on public lands is rather substantial. Especially considering portions of TN already had some of the most pressured public land in the .
Yeah, no effect on hunting quality at all! ::)
Easy now.....your gonna have the loose lip YouTube turkey pimps all upset with those numbers and such.
TN has already reduced the limit from 4 to 3 and license are the same cost.
TN NR License jumped from $100 to $308 almost over night it seems.
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
What makes you feel so entitled to shoot 3 turkeys that you would discontinue visiting a state if they decreased the limit to 2?
Why isn't 2 enough? Why isn't 1 enough?
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on June 18, 2021, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
What makes you feel so entitled to shoot 3 turkeys that you would discontinue visiting a state if they decreased the limit to 2?
Why isn't 2 enough? Why isn't 1 enough?
Kyle - I think the question isn't if 2 birds or 1 bird is enough. The question
is going to be, how can they charge the same price they always have with
the reduced opportunity.
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on June 18, 2021, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
What makes you feel so entitled to shoot 3 turkeys that you would discontinue visiting a state if they decreased the limit to 2?
Why isn't 2 enough? Why isn't 1 enough?
.
$308 is the reason.. I live 13 miles from the TN line.
$308. Whew. When I lived in western KY I rarely hunted TN's section of LBL because the license was pricy then. Any other state this high?
Tennessee .. good old rocky top Tennessee ... go big orange .... :fud:
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 09:34:16 PM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on June 18, 2021, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
What makes you feel so entitled to shoot 3 turkeys that you would discontinue visiting a state if they decreased the limit to 2?
Why isn't 2 enough? Why isn't 1 enough?
.
$308 is the reason.. I live 13 miles from the TN line.
I paid $420 to hunt Kentucky this year and only killed one bird. I can deer hunt though so that will be nice. Tourism ain't cheap, gotta pay to play.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: catman529 on June 18, 2021, 11:21:28 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 09:34:16 PM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on June 18, 2021, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
What makes you feel so entitled to shoot 3 turkeys that you would discontinue visiting a state if they decreased the limit to 2?
Why isn't 2 enough? Why isn't 1 enough?
.
$308 is the reason.. I live 13 miles from the TN line.
I paid $420 to hunt Kentucky this year and only killed one bird. I can deer hunt though so that will be nice. Tourism ain't cheap, gotta pay to play.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
You did not have to buy KY deer tag to turkey hunt, you chose too. I have no choice with the type 73 TN NR license. I rarely deer hunt in TN.
Thought something wasn't adding up. I priced KY before the covid shutdown and even adding an LBL permit wasn't close to 400 for turkey.
Quote from: Jimspur on June 18, 2021, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on June 18, 2021, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
What makes you feel so entitled to shoot 3 turkeys that you would discontinue visiting a state if they decreased the limit to 2?
Why isn't 2 enough? Why isn't 1 enough?
Kyle - I think the question isn't if 2 birds or 1 bird is enough. The question
is going to be, how can they charge the same price they always have with
the reduced opportunity.
We will continue to see more states charging the same price (or higher) and reducing opportunity for non-residents in order to combat the massive influx of pressure to public lands that social media and YouTubers have helped cause.
For next year public land hunters have lost 1-2 weeks of their season in Alabama and they can now only kill 1 bird the first 10 days of each season.
In Georgia, public land hunters have lost 2-3 weeks of their season for next spring! And several new WMAs were changed to draw hunts.
Basically, you will be paying the same price in these states for drastically reduced opportunity partially because of those who have a thirst for internet fame and a check from the YouTubes and merchandise sales.
So now where will these displaced hunters go? I have my suspicions and expect other states will start adjusting accordingly as well.
I live on the La / ms state line . But pay my homestead in La and my business tax in La . But I also own a little ground and a home across line in ms . Being you can legally only claim one homestead I'm required to pay out of state hunting lic in ms , it runs me around 430 a year for the combo lic .
When I send my money yearly to ms or any other states I travel I look at it as paying for the opportunity to legally hunt , not how many game animals I can take for amount I spend .
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on June 19, 2021, 07:41:41 AM
Quote from: Jimspur on June 18, 2021, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on June 18, 2021, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
What makes you feel so entitled to shoot 3 turkeys that you would discontinue visiting a state if they decreased the limit to 2?
Why isn't 2 enough? Why isn't 1 enough?
Kyle - I think the question isn't if 2 birds or 1 bird is enough. The question
is going to be, how can they charge the same price they always have with
the reduced opportunity.
We will continue to see more states charging the same price (or higher) and reducing opportunity for non-residents in order to combat the massive influx of pressure to public lands that social media and YouTubers have helped cause.
For next year public land hunters have lost 1-2 weeks of their season in Alabama and they can now only kill 1 bird the first 10 days of each season.
In Georgia, public land hunters have lost 2-3 weeks of their season for next spring! And several new WMAs were changed to draw hunts.
Basically, you will be paying the same price in these states for drastically reduced opportunity partially because of those who have a thirst for internet fame and a check from the YouTubes and merchandise sales.
So now where will these displaced hunters go? I have my suspicions and expect other states will start adjusting accordingly as well.
I'm curious as to what your experiences have been turkey hunting public in other areas/states other than your local public land spots?
Quote from: simpzenith on June 19, 2021, 08:14:31 AM
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on June 19, 2021, 07:41:41 AM
Quote from: Jimspur on June 18, 2021, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on June 18, 2021, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
What makes you feel so entitled to shoot 3 turkeys that you would discontinue visiting a state if they decreased the limit to 2?
Why isn't 2 enough? Why isn't 1 enough?
Kyle - I think the question isn't if 2 birds or 1 bird is enough. The question
is going to be, how can they charge the same price they always have with
the reduced opportunity.
We will continue to see more states charging the same price (or higher) and reducing opportunity for non-residents in order to combat the massive influx of pressure to public lands that social media and YouTubers have helped cause.
For next year public land hunters have lost 1-2 weeks of their season in Alabama and they can now only kill 1 bird the first 10 days of each season.
In Georgia, public land hunters have lost 2-3 weeks of their season for next spring! And several new WMAs were changed to draw hunts.
Basically, you will be paying the same price in these states for drastically reduced opportunity partially because of those who have a thirst for internet fame and a check from the YouTubes and merchandise sales.
So now where will these displaced hunters go? I have my suspicions and expect other states will start adjusting accordingly as well.
I'm curious as to what your experiences have been turkey hunting public in other areas/states other than your local public land spots?
What experiences would you like to hear about?
Historically for me, the public land hunting has often been better outside of the southeast primarily due to the lack of hunting pressure (in comparison) elsewhere and often times greater bird numbers. But the hunting pressure has significantly changed the past few years.
I've made a trip to MO for the past 14 years and this spring was the worst i've ever saw it in terms of hunting pressure + bird numbers. May ditch it for elsewhere next spring.
I normally go down to Florida every couple years but the circus its turned into makes me wonder if that's even worth it anymore.
Had a good hunt this spring along the east coast in some non-destination states. One WMA was extremely pressured but I knew that going into it and playing that card still paid off quickly. The other state I had minimal contact with any hunters in 3 days which is VERY unusual in this day and time.
Made another hunt on the eastern seaboard this year that went well. One thing that stood out was talking to the residents who were amazed at all the non-resident hunting pressure they were now receiving that started about last year. But I only saw a couple non-res and the only hunter interference I had was in one particular location and it was local hunters. Some of this area is about to pounded on now due to social media exposure.
Hunted up on your stomping grounds recently. Several hunters, but no interference and no problem getting on birds. The 1-bird limit states really help curtail non-resident pressure. Plus they got a lot more turkey than many other states!
Almost even hate to admit it, but I hunted Wisconsin last spring due to running out of states I could hunt in (COVID closures, filled tags). My oh my, I've saw a lot of stuff during my travels. But that pressure was just silly! And birds were responding to the pressure accordingly. But there were still a few birds to be killed amongst the crowd.
I have a pretty good network of traveling turkey hunters and am saddened to hear what was happened to some of my favorite western haunts over the past two springs. I know they aren't lying, but I haven't been back yet to see it for myself.
Don't want to derail the thread too much. If you'd like to continue to hear about my experiences or chat some more, send me a PM.
For the past year, it seems half the post on this forum always ends up with everyone complaining public land is too pressured, blaming YouTubers, Hunt apps, forums, the list goes on. Blame who you want.. but I think everyone can agree the problem is only going to get worse each year. At least as long as Turkey hunting is the new "in" thing.
With that being said, if you are truly passionate about avoiding other people when you hunt, spend more time networking and doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to get private land access. Maybe you need to work a few side jobs to save a little $$ to join a club, barter labor with a local farmer, or trade... but I can tell you it's easy if you are motivated. And this is coming from someone that lives in Florida... the hardest place to make this happen.
Believe me, there are many traveling hunters on this forum that network constantly with each other behind the scenes to do whatever it takes to avoid the public land $hit show ...
Quote from: shatcher on June 15, 2021, 03:09:19 PM
Follow the $. TN total harvest of 2021 right at 33,000 birds, down from 40,000 in 2020. 4 bird limit (ridiculous) in 2020 dropped to 3 birds (still too high) in 2021. TN will harvest itself to dismal numbers before long. 6 week season is ridiculous too. I don't know what the TWRA is thinking. Oh, follow the $.
Just like Mississippi, season too lo long ,bag limit too liberal
deerhunt1988 - your 100% correct.
Quote from: Jimspur on June 18, 2021, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on June 18, 2021, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
What makes you feel so entitled to shoot 3 turkeys that you would discontinue visiting a state if they decreased the limit to 2?
Why isn't 2 enough? Why isn't 1 enough?
Kyle - I think the question isn't if 2 birds or 1 bird is enough. The question
is going to be, how can they charge the same price they always have with
the reduced opportunity.
If some of these guys truly consider themselves conservationists they should recognize that the resource is rapidly depleting and the ability to sustain such egregiously high bag limits no longer exists in this environment.
Reduced opportunity is a function of habitat loss, increased precipitation and excessive harvest by hunters. We all have a hand in this and I will happily pay increased license fees to shoot 1 turkey in each state if it means more funding goes directly into habitat management and I'll have a higher quality experience(translation: I see more turkeys and/or hear more turkeys while I'm visiting there).
With the exception of Arkansas and Nevada, almost every state with a 1 bird limit that I visit is a refreshing experience.
If a person is not willing to pay for a quality experience but they're willing to pay to kill in quantity, I've got some colorful words for those types of individuals that can't be typed in this thread. They're just a selfish parasite on the resource; they're no conservationist.
:welcomeOG:
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on June 20, 2021, 07:47:15 AM
Quote from: Jimspur on June 18, 2021, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on June 18, 2021, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
What makes you feel so entitled to shoot 3 turkeys that you would discontinue visiting a state if they decreased the limit to 2?
Why isn't 2 enough? Why isn't 1 enough?
Kyle - I think the question isn't if 2 birds or 1 bird is enough. The question
is going to be, how can they charge the same price they always have with
the reduced opportunity.
If some of these guys truly consider themselves conservationists they should recognize that the resource is rapidly depleting and the ability to sustain such egregiously high bag limits no longer exists in this environment.
Reduced opportunity is a function of habitat loss, increased precipitation and excessive harvest by hunters. We all have a hand in this and I will happily pay increased license fees to shoot 1 turkey in each state if it means more funding goes directly into habitat management and I'll have a higher quality experience(translation: I see more turkeys and/or hear more turkeys while I'm visiting there).
With the exception of Arkansas and Nevada, almost every state with a 1 bird limit that I visit is a refreshing experience.
If a person is not willing to pay for a quality experience but they're willing to pay to kill in quantity, I've got some colorful words for those types of individuals that can't be typed in this thread. They're just a selfish parasite on the resource; they're no conservationist.
Since you have quoted me twice let me clear things up a bit for you. I am all for any and all restrictions that may include reducing the limits, shortening the season, outlawing strutting decoys/fanning etc. because I see the decline most everywhere I hunt especially in TN. I've hunted TN for at least 25yrs and prolly longer, I've seen the turkey pop go from fair to great and back to fair. It's been several yrs now since I've killed more than 1 bird on any one of my places there.
My comment was meant to imply that with further reductions in limits and shortening of the season, I'll prolly not continue to hunt TN since it's the most expensive license I buy. I'm not being entitled or however you put it, I'm just being honest. I'm all for any changes that help the turkeys.
The facts of the matter is that there are many more hunters that feel the same way and just this in itself could be a way the TWRA plans to use to reduce NR hunting pressure. Once again I'll repeat I'm all for it, has nothing to do with feeling entitled.
Arkansas is a two gobbler state
Two week season
Late opener/season for 10+ years
Quota hunts on most WMA's
One gobbler first week (new this year)
No population rebound.....now other states are following the same season struture ideas that failed in Arkansas already.
Predation is the major factor.....falling fur prices directly mirror falling turkey numbers
I have a buddy who has been cutting hay this week, he's found 8 nests in one field. He's avoided them alll leaving about 30yd buffer on each. Of the 8 on 2 hens are still alive. His brother's dog killed one of the hens as the eggs were hatching. He was able to get 3 poults to a chicken whose eggs were hatching.
So far they are still living. Seems like the deck is stacked against them from the beginning.
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 20, 2021, 08:46:51 AM
I have a buddy who has been cutting hay this week, he's found 8 nests in one field. He's avoided them alll leaving about 30yd buffer on each. Of the 8 on 2 hens are still alive. His brother's dog killed one of the hens as the eggs were hatching. He was able to get 3 poults to a chicken whose eggs were hatching.
So far they are still living. Seems like the deck is stacked against them from the beginning.
Shake that mans hand and buy him a surf and turf dinner and premium beers !
Quote from: owlhoot on June 20, 2021, 11:53:40 AM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 20, 2021, 08:46:51 AM
I have a buddy who has been cutting hay this week, he's found 8 nests in one field. He's avoided them alll leaving about 30yd buffer on each. Of the 8 on 2 hens are still alive. His brother's dog killed one of the hens as the eggs were hatching. He was able to get 3 poults to a chicken whose eggs were hatching.
So far they are still living. Seems like the deck is stacked against them from the beginning.
Shake that mans hand and buy him a surf and turf dinner and premium beers !
The guy hasn't killed a turkey in several years but he appreciates wildlife and tries to look out them the best he can. Really surprises me so many hens still sitting mid June in TN.
Quote from: Jimspur on June 18, 2021, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on June 18, 2021, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
What makes you feel so entitled to shoot 3 turkeys that you would discontinue visiting a state if they decreased the limit to 2?
Why isn't 2 enough? Why isn't 1 enough?
Kyle - I think the question isn't if 2 birds or 1 bird is enough. The question
is going to be, how can they charge the same price they always have with
the reduced opportunity.
If they lower the price , which I doubt will ever happen, that may defeat the purpose of trying to reduce hunter numbers. In fact it will increase them.
Quote from: owlhoot on June 20, 2021, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: Jimspur on June 18, 2021, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on June 18, 2021, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 18, 2021, 02:45:47 PM
I've bought a NR Res TN license for prolly 25yrs but if they lower the turkey limit to 2, I'm done.
There's the answer to that problem.
What makes you feel so entitled to shoot 3 turkeys that you would discontinue visiting a state if they decreased the limit to 2?
Why isn't 2 enough? Why isn't 1 enough?
Kyle - I think the question isn't if 2 birds or 1 bird is enough. The question
is going to be, how can they charge the same price they always have with
the reduced opportunity.
If they lower the price , which I doubt will ever happen, that may defeat the purpose of trying to reduce hunter numbers. In fact it will increase them.
I think you're right. Leaving the price the same will effectively decrease
the number of non-resident hunters. That might be what the state wants.
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 20, 2021, 12:02:24 PM
Quote from: owlhoot on June 20, 2021, 11:53:40 AM
Quote from: Roost 1 on June 20, 2021, 08:46:51 AM
I have a buddy who has been cutting hay this week, he's found 8 nests in one field. He's avoided them alll leaving about 30yd buffer on each. Of the 8 on 2 hens are still alive. His brother's dog killed one of the hens as the eggs were hatching. He was able to get 3 poults to a chicken whose eggs were hatching.
So far they are still living. Seems like the deck is stacked against them from the beginning.
Shake that mans hand and buy him a surf and turf dinner and premium beers !
The guy hasn't killed a turkey in several years but he appreciates wildlife and tries to look out them the best he can. Really surprises me so many hens still sitting mid June in TN.
Hens sitting in June ,Missouri too, especially in the Northern half of state.
Could be a lot of re-nest attempts too from predators and or weather.
Seasons differ . I read some reports by Larry D. Vangilder, PhD , I believe? Where they stated that nesting incubation cycles varied up to 29 days . Don't have time today to find specifics of study and post it.
I do recall a late spring recently when Mid April opening day was without any leaves and no underbrush green ups. 32 degrees opening day following snow in the week or so prior. 2018 I think .
I recall 3-4 seasons like this in the last decade or two.
Seen gobblers strutting on hens July 4th weekend. Shock gobbles from fire works morter fire, lol.
But this year was cooler weather until June and lots of May green up here.
Happy fathers day , guys. Have a good one.
I'd like for some of the gurus to explain Arkansas. Some of the most beautiful ground I've ever been on. No hunting pressure and the hunting sucks.
I've seen poults in Tennessee that had to have been hatched around the first of august before Which would have put them laid in June. Also seen Gobblers with hens in June still strutting and gobbling I think a lot of people believe turkeys won't breed after June 1st for some reason lol And they won't if there are no gobblers left to breed My opinion is we're just steadily dwindling down our "carry over gobblers " and a lot of this later breeding doesn't occur anymore
not surprising at all.
Quote from: drake799 on June 20, 2021, 10:19:03 PM
I've seen poults in Tennessee that had to have been hatched around the first of august before Which would have put them laid in June. Also seen Gobblers with hens in June still strutting and gobbling I think a lot of people believe turkeys won't breed after June 1st for some reason lol And they won't if there are no gobblers left to breed My opinion is we're just steadily dwindling down our "carry over gobblers " and a lot of this later breeding doesn't occur anymore.
I believe this is spot on. Couple that with predator problems.
I have witnessed the same cycle from the 1990's to the present here in Western New York. Our local biologist explained to us ( his views) that during the boom years ... there were years of great spring nesting weather and at the same time- a outbreak of distemper that hurt the nest raiders. This gave us hunters some years of unsustainable populations and had the bar set too high. I also have witnessed a change in farming practices with earlier first cutting and more frequent hay cutting. Our fox and coyote population is a problem here as well. Our state says there are less total hunters than then ... but we have lot of turkey hunters and pressure is high in my area.
Quote from: arkrem870 on June 20, 2021, 08:39:04 AM
Arkansas is a two gobbler state
Two week season
Late opener/season for 10+ years
Quota hunts on most WMA's
One gobbler first week (new this year)
No population rebound.....now other states are following the same season struture ideas that failed in Arkansas already.
Predation is the major factor.....falling fur prices directly mirror falling turkey numbers
For the last few years, this information continues to make me pause when people talk about restrictions. I've yet to have someone give a rational reason to me why Arkansas' plan isn't working.
Quote from: AndyN on June 16, 2021, 08:43:32 AM
Heck that's only 10-15% of KS NR sales. I may have to start travelling east if that's a bad year for pressure.
You better hurry in about 5 years there won't be any turkeys to hunt.
Quote from: jrinny on June 21, 2021, 08:22:53 AM
I also have witnessed a change in farming practices with earlier first cutting and more frequent hay cutting.
Everyone points to nest-destroying predators, but hay cutting is rarely mentioned.
The price of hay has been very high in recent years. I wonder how many nests are destroyed by earlier first cutting and more frequent hay cutting by farmers chasing the higher prices?
In the last 30 years- the traditional 1st and 2nd cutting for hay have given way to earlier 1st cuttings and more hay cutting altogether. Along with draining moist soil areas and removing hedgerows - none of which are positive for nesting. Add an increasing predator population and it makes it difficult to sustain a high turkey population
In absence of trappers, Arkansas issues cull permits .
Sep 24, 2019 — Furbearers such as bobcat, coyote, gray fox, red fox, opossum, raccoon and striped skunk may now be hunted year-round on private land in the ...
The beauty of raccoon hunting for me was that I was able to easily include my young family. I rarely went raccoon hunting last winter without taking one of my kids. It didn't take them long to begin to love hounds the way I did. There is something adventurous about being in the woods at night chasing a hound, and raccoon hunting is a great way to introduce kids into the outdoors and hunting. There's no need for long sits without moving—raccoon hunting is a social sport designed for talking and human interaction. Additionally, raccoon populations are very good in Arkansas and need to be controlled by hunting. Raccoons are ground nest predators (turkeys and quail), poultry killers, bird feed raiders and a general nuisance.
Quote from: owlhoot on June 21, 2021, 11:35:28 PM
In absence of trappers, Arkansas issues cull permits .
Sep 24, 2019 — Furbearers such as bobcat, coyote, gray fox, red fox, opossum, raccoon and striped skunk may now be hunted year-round on private land in the ...
The beauty of raccoon hunting for me was that I was able to easily include my young family. I rarely went raccoon hunting last winter without taking one of my kids. It didn't take them long to begin to love hounds the way I did. There is something adventurous about being in the woods at night chasing a hound, and raccoon hunting is a great way to introduce kids into the outdoors and hunting. There's no need for long sits without moving—raccoon hunting is a social sport designed for talking and human interaction. Additionally, raccoon populations are very good in Arkansas and need to be controlled by hunting. Raccoons are ground nest predators (turkeys and quail), poultry killers, bird feed raiders and a general nuisance.
Arkansas Game and Fish Commission - Commission seeks ...https://m.facebook.com › ARGameandFish › photos
The Arkansas Game and Fish Commission heard the first reading of new regulations concerning ... The raccoon population is way out of control around here.
They need a coon eradication program like the boll weevil eradication program.