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https://mdc.mo.gov/newsroom/mdc-expands-opportunities-commercial-photography-filming-conservation-areas?fbclid=IwAR0jAmt7XT3hiH5ArvzJVaxlEYb249CRJOWOaqdpA9ee7ioJV2FFidDoM80

Glad to hear this will not stop the private individual (in theory) but it will be interesting to see how things go, as a person that takes pictures (I do not feel I deserve to be called a photographer yet) it would be quite bad if they restricted your normal citizen from coming in and taking pictures or taping.

Figured that was coming and more will follow. I only hope that money goes directly back to public lands and habitat improvement.

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Never underestimate the ability of a government entity to find new and creative ways to take someone's money.

Quote from: Happy on June 01, 2021, 08:16:21 PM
Figured that was coming and more will follow. I only hope that money goes directly back to public lands and habitat improvement.

We can only hope.

Did I read this correctly that the "Youtubers" on MDC lands will have to pay of fee of $500 a day?

Quote from: GobblinNC on June 02, 2021, 08:51:38 AM
Did I read this correctly that the "Youtubers" on MDC lands will have to pay of fee of $500 a day?

The article is basically saying those that have been filming hunts on MDC property and monetarily gaining from it have been doing so illegally, but they will make a more established and legal language law that would require them to pay for a video and photography license to film on MDC property for the future. It made reference to "indirect monetary gain" so that would include self-filmed hunts that you upload to a viewing platform even if you don't expect them to get views and render any monetary gain. You couldn't say well I have no followers, if they are truly for your self you can private videos and make them no longer viewable to the public. It said $500 / day for the videography, for most the YouTube guys they're not making that much money on their videos due to YouTube policies that limits their ad revenue and gives them a creator cut far less than any "family friendly" channel.

If other states follow suit, expect the YouTube hunter to struggle to survive, - couple very large channels will make it, but all the guys with just a couple thousand subscriber won't. They are making enough money to just pay for their tags and some gas is all for many of them.

More .gov is never the answer.

Quote from: TonyTurk on June 01, 2021, 08:20:49 PM
Never underestimate the ability of a government entity to find new and creative ways to take someone's money.

You beat me to it. 

Probably means less money in the long run. These guys who have video platforms won't go there anymore, hence neither will the masses that follow them. I have not gone on an out of state hunt, and prefer to hunt close to home, but there are lots of people trying to do the "Super Slam", or whatever they call it. Unless the state is Wisconsin, out of state licence and tag fees are a lot more than the locals pay. If they lose money generated by out of staters the cost will be deferred to the locals, so their fees will have to go up to cover the loss in revenue. Let's face it Big Brother doesn't have the best interest of hunters in mind when budget planning time comes around.

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Quote from: Jmbradt3873 on June 02, 2021, 12:44:53 PM
Probably means less money in the long run. These guys who have video platforms won't go there anymore, hence neither will the masses that follow them. I have not gone on an out of state hunt, and prefer to hunt close to home, but there are lots of people trying to do the "Super Slam", or whatever they call it. Unless the state is Wisconsin, out of state licence and tag fees are a lot more than the locals pay. If they lose money generated by out of staters the cost will be deferred to the locals, so their fees will have to go up to cover the loss in revenue. Let's face it Big Brother doesn't have the best interest of hunters in mind when budget planning time comes around.

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I think the point is they dont want them coming and profiting off the resource... once again MDC sets the standard when it comes to wild turkey management.

I agree. I'm glad to see it and hope more states follow suit.

Not saying it is a bad thing. I live and hunt in Florida, so everybody who wants to kill an Osceola has to come here. I have no problem with that. However this year, a whole lot less was done for the turkey management than in other years, blame whatever you want, covid 19, etc. I did not see a single game warden at all and I only missed a couple days in our almost 6 week season. There were a huge number of people hunting and most followed the laws. The gas pipe line and easements are normally planted with food plots by the NWTF, but weren't this year. That said I still killed my one turkey, allowed 2 for the season, but I never kill two. Instead I spent the last 5 weeks of the season watching turkeys move from area to area or tried to fool one for my wife and son, no luck. I think you tube and hunting videos are responsible for people wanting to try it and covid gave them the time. But charging money for videoing may end up backfiring on them, more people will just avoid those states, and people who post videos for friend and family will be left holding the bag. I don't mind paying more to hunt, and I never video, just a couple of pictures to remember the hunt, but that's just me. My son on the other hand would love to video his hunts, not sure where he posts them but he enjoys it. Too much stuff to tote in the woods, I switched to a 20 so I had less weight, and walk farther, not to carry more junk. Just my .02, ymmv.

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Quote from: Roost 1 on June 02, 2021, 01:20:17 PM
I think the point is they dont want them coming and profiting off the resource... once again MDC sets the standard when it comes to wild turkey management.

Exactly. I expect many states to follow. MDC is one of the best funded departments in the country and if this is a move they look to make I can only assume many will follow as they receive even less tax %.

Most places require these guys to have film permits, lots of guys talk of it in their videos.  500 a day will eliminate em all!

Guys can work out better deals with an outfitter and film their hunts on private.

I kind of like it but kind of don't, uncle sam dips into our cash enough!  As stated if it is directed back into habitat that would be good, but not many are going to fork up the 500 a day.

I have not seen a youtube crew anywhere I have been, and I hunt a lot of public for turkeys.

So...  Youtubers decide not to pay the fee and instead film somewhere else.  So the state doesn't get that money.  Then, since the Youtubers don't produce videos in that state, out of state hunters don't travel which means the state doesn't get their licenses fees like they did in the past.  So in the end, they actually lose money. 

Not to mention the hotels, restaurants, gas stations, local businesses ect that benefited from those traveling hunters. 

Fairly certain MDC didn't allow commercial filming on their conservation areas before this. Aaron from THP had even mentioned something about it in a podcast a few years back. So their MO hunts had to be filmed on areas owned by other entities, i.e. Federal lands.

Hopefully Missouri's decision to allow filming with the pricey permit sets a precedent that other state's follow. Although I'm not even sure i'd agree that a $500/day permit would offset the damage done to our public land resources in certain areas caused by the YouTubers.

For those saying Missouri is going to lose a lot of money, government overreach, blah blah blah.... Missouri is one of the most well funded state wildlife agencies in the country thanks to their dedicated conservation tax. They weren't getting film permit monies from their conservation areas before, because they didn't allow it. So they only have money to gain from it now. And any money gained will be insignificant in their overall budget.

MDC is a model state wildlife agency that always seems to be one step ahead. They were one of the first to reap the benefits of a conservation tax. Their turkey season structure is slowly being emulated by various other states. Now they are getting ahead of the curve on commercial filming and protecting the public's wildlife resource. Doesn't surprise me a bit that MDC is the front-runner on this dilemma. Believe it or not fellas, not every state is concerned with raking in every penny possible!

Props to MDC

Well said Nathan!!

Quote from: CALLM2U on June 02, 2021, 03:54:34 PM
So...  Youtubers decide not to pay the fee and instead film somewhere else.  So the state doesn't get that money.  Then, since the Youtubers don't produce videos in that state, out of state hunters don't travel which means the state doesn't get their licenses fees like they did in the past.  So in the end, they actually lose money. 

Not to mention the hotels, restaurants, gas stations, local businesses ect that benefited from those traveling hunters.

I believe this line of thinking will end up being incorrect. Me personally, I try to avoid the states the youtubers recently hunted because all the fan boys mindlessly follow them around like puppy dogs. I experienced it firsthand this year. Hunted a state where THP was the previous year and people were EVERYWHERE. 5 trucks at one gate, people camping at access points, etc. Just a complete sh*tshow. I will gladly hunt any state they haven't been to in the last 3-5 years. Y'all can have the crowds of guys wearing fanboy hoodies and hats. I'll go elsewhere.

Quote from: St. Augustine Strutter on June 02, 2021, 04:34:01 PM

Quote from: CALLM2U on June 02, 2021, 03:54:34 PM
So...  Youtubers decide not to pay the fee and instead film somewhere else.  So the state doesn't get that money.  Then, since the Youtubers don't produce videos in that state, out of state hunters don't travel which means the state doesn't get their licenses fees like they did in the past.  So in the end, they actually lose money. 

Not to mention the hotels, restaurants, gas stations, local businesses ect that benefited from those traveling hunters.

I believe this line of thinking will end up being incorrect. Me personally, I try to avoid the states the youtubers recently hunted because all the fan boys mindlessly follow them around like puppy dogs. I experienced it firsthand this year. Hunted a state where THP was the previous year and people were EVERYWHERE. 5 trucks at one gate, people camping at access points, etc. Just a complete sh*tshow. I will gladly hunt any state they haven't been to in the last 3-5 years. Y'all can have the crowds of guys wearing fanboy hoodies and hats. I'll go elsewhere.

From what you're saying, it sounds like the "yous" are much less than the "thems"  Which was my point. 

FWIW, I don't have a dog in this (YouTube) fight either way.  But I do pride myself on trying to see all sides of the argument.  There are downsides to every action-especially when there are penalties/taxes involved. 

Not that I'm taking sides with the Youtubers, but this Government overreach is getting ridiculous. And you all know this money will never flow into the needed areas.





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They are welcome to go to private lands where they can video for free...

It's past time for this to happen.  In all states

Any way you slice this, it is another TAX. Government dipping into the pockets of Americans already paying taxes and hunting fees, etc. Filming a freaking deer or turkey shouldn't matter considering the folks already buying a hunting license to kill that freaking game animal. This is absurd. Wildlife will never see a nicke that money.

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Quote from: CALLM2U on June 02, 2021, 04:56:14 PM

Quote from: St. Augustine Strutter on June 02, 2021, 04:34:01 PM

Quote from: CALLM2U on June 02, 2021, 03:54:34 PM
So...  Youtubers decide not to pay the fee and instead film somewhere else.  So the state doesn't get that money.  Then, since the Youtubers don't produce videos in that state, out of state hunters don't travel which means the state doesn't get their licenses fees like they did in the past.  So in the end, they actually lose money. 

Not to mention the hotels, restaurants, gas stations, local businesses ect that benefited from those traveling hunters.

I believe this line of thinking will end up being incorrect. Me personally, I try to avoid the states the youtubers recently hunted because all the fan boys mindlessly follow them around like puppy dogs. I experienced it firsthand this year. Hunted a state where THP was the previous year and people were EVERYWHERE. 5 trucks at one gate, people camping at access points, etc. Just a complete sh*tshow. I will gladly hunt any state they haven't been to in the last 3-5 years. Y'all can have the crowds of guys wearing fanboy hoodies and hats. I'll go elsewhere.

From what you're saying, it sounds like the "yous" are much less than the "thems"  Which was my point. 

FWIW, I don't have a dog in this (YouTube) fight either way.  But I do pride myself on trying to see all sides of the argument.  There are downsides to every action-especially when there are penalties/taxes involved.

That's correct, hence why I said it will "end up being incorrect."  There are definitely more folks doing the former rather than the latter right now and there will always be the fan boys trying to follow their idols. However, people that want to avoid crowds will quickly learn (and already have to some extent) not to visit states where the youtubers have recently been, broadcasting specific parts of states. And then the tax dollars and license sales will balance out. And yes, Missouri is ahead of the curve on this no doubt. I hope Florida follows suit. These bozos on YouTube are definitely taking more than they are giving back.

But hey, it's all about the content and merch sales. All under the guise of "hunter recruitment"

And it's all for the betterment of the turkeys fellas! Haven't your heard!

Hunter recruitment. Means more clicks. More clicks means more money. How dumb can people be supporting the outright pimping of public land hunting and turkeys.  South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia etc dropping restrictions directly related to this pimping that hurts both residents and non-resident that hunt public lands.   

Quote from: arkrem870 on June 02, 2021, 08:22:15 PM
Hunter recruitment. Means more clicks. More clicks means more money. How dumb can people be supporting the outright pimping of public land hunting and turkeys.  South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia etc dropping restrictions directly related to this pimping that hurts both residents and non-resident that hunt public lands.

PREACH!

Surprised more states don't do this.
Also surprised that more states don't have a law that states if you don't have tag (filled or unfilled)  you may not assist another hunter.

Quote from: St. Augustine Strutter on June 02, 2021, 08:31:30 PM

Quote from: arkrem870 on June 02, 2021, 08:22:15 PM
Hunter recruitment. Means more clicks. More clicks means more money. How dumb can people be supporting the outright pimping of public land hunting and turkeys.  South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia etc dropping restrictions directly related to this pimping that hurts both residents and non-resident that hunt public lands.

PREACH!

Amen!!!

I live in Missouri. I don't hunt public as much as I did way back when, but I support this rule. I've never had a problem with non resident hunters, love to hunt other states myself, but there's a difference in an individual hunting for their own personal enjoyment and trying to make a profit. No difference on this and banning guides from taking clients to public land, which I also support.

Also, I think many are missing the point. It's rather obvious to me that the intent isn't to collect the fee, but rather to stop the practice altogether without actually banning filming.

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Quote from: owlhoot on June 02, 2021, 08:55:43 PM
Surprised more states don't do this.

Many do have that rule but it's not enforced very well.

Quote from: Cowboy on June 02, 2021, 08:05:58 PM
Any way you slice this, it is another TAX. Government dipping into the pockets of Americans already paying taxes and hunting fees, etc. Filming a freaking deer or turkey shouldn't matter considering the folks already buying a hunting license to kill that freaking game animal. This is absurd. Wildlife will never see a nicke that money.

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They are not forced to pay the tax. They can choose to go to private lands where free enterprise is at play. Or not video for commercial purposes on public land in MO.

Quote from: Spurs Up on June 03, 2021, 12:37:58 PM
They are not forced to pay the tax. They can choose to go to private lands where free enterprise is at play. Or not video for commercial purposes on public land in MO.

So they're not "Public land owners"?

Other states will see this and follow suit, you can guarantee the government will jump on any new tax opportunity. With that said, I think it's near impossible to enforce. After all, you are talking about hunters miles deep in the middle of the woods with a small Go pro.

Quote from: CALLM2U on June 02, 2021, 03:54:34 PM
So...  Youtubers decide not to pay the fee and instead film somewhere else.  So the state doesn't get that money.  Then, since the Youtubers don't produce videos in that state, out of state hunters don't travel which means the state doesn't get their licenses fees like they did in the past.  So in the end, they actually lose money. 

Not to mention the hotels, restaurants, gas stations, local businesses ect that benefited from those traveling hunters.

What did we ever do before YT ? The struggle is real.

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Before YouTube.....People hunted turkeys. Killed turkeys. Most kept it quiet because loud mouthing about your public hunting spots is/was dumb.  Ever ask a turkey hunter if he has heard anything? .......answer. Nope haven't heard a thing. He has nothing to gain by giving up a spot. But youtubers need the attention. They need the likes. They need the clicks. They need more hunters. They need more Hunter scouring their videos for clues as the where they are. Because that's how they make money. They justify their actions because they need the $$. And it's at the expense of local hunters around the country through crowded woods and more strict regulation. 

Missouri will not see any money, because even the most popular tubers aren't making enough to pay 500$ a day for a turkey vid.

Missouri did not allow filming, so not sure what they are after, seems they maybe should have consulted some folks to see what they were willing to pay?   Maybe they did who knows?

Say THP hunted Missouri, hunt was a lil tough and they hunted 4 days, 2k for just the filming plus all there usual expenses, seems like too much overhead to me.

  It just ain't you tubers. It's almost everyone now days. Facebook people have to put what they have for supper on there. Sure are plenty of game animals and fish on there to. It's all egos. You tubers are no different then Primos, the Knights and Realtree outdoors. The Bill Dance and Roland Martins of the day.  What about hunting magazines they do the same thing about areas they hunt do it yourself hunts. Don't you think people traveled to those areas they hunted and fished.  The you tubers are just small timers trying to make it to the big leagues.  Just so many out there now. Way of the times. Everyone trying to get recognized.

  Can anyone tell me how This Bill got started.  Was it from local hunters or local anti hunters. Was there that many people running through the woods with cameras.

  So is everyone with a tactacam or GoPro going to be guilty till he proves his innocence.

  I've never hunted out the State where I lived. I would like to someday.  Be nice to research areas first.

   This is the United States of America people have the right to enjoy all the States. I live in NC where people come from all over to bear hunt. Trains of trucks ten deep most of times. I don't like it but they're free people in a free country. 
 

  I know I'm glad when I need to work on my truck or anything else I can go to you tube to see how it's done.

For the record, the last time I hunted MO, I watched some poaching jerk shoot the gobbler I had working to me from the middle of a gravel road out a jeep window. Shot it, ran out into the woods, ran back grabbed the loaded gun stopped looked at me shocked. Probably because I stood up , with his shotgun at port arms. Ran into woods second time, shot again. I left that PUBLIC LAND and never went back. True story. So I dont have any love losted for the Show Me state. And the Youtubers had nothing to do with this. Back 25 years or so ago. 

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So , what about the bass fishing tournaments that are filmed on public waters? How would that work ? Who would pay ? Just the producers , or all the individuals involved?

Using public woods and waters for profit is taking more than your fair share. They should have to put more in if they get more out. Same with public roads. A trucking company should pay more tax because they use more of the road.

I'm glad Missouri is doing something but this will only effect a small amount of the public ground and will be easy to work around. Conservation areas will be subject to the payment but national forests won't.

Quote from: Fdept56 on June 03, 2021, 03:31:07 PM
I'm glad Missouri is doing something but this will only effect a small amount of the public ground and will be easy to work around. Conservation areas will be subject to the payment but national forests won't.

Me too. The National Forests have long required a permit for commercial activities including video productions done for profit. Preaching to the choir, but if you're going to try to commercialize activities on lands we all own, it's fair to expect you to pay more than those of us who are not trying to make money off our lands.  Video all you want for free for personal use but pay if it's commercial. It's hard for me to understand why some think that's government overreach and they are entitled to more.

The forest service should do something about it then. They are clearly commercial filming for profit. The evidence is plastered all over YouTube.

Good thing I'm a news agency.  :TooFunny:

Quote from: simpzenith on June 06, 2021, 09:04:44 AM
Good thing I'm a news agency.  :TooFunny:

You are about as credible as the news agencies too

:TooFunny: :TooFunny:

Quote from: simpzenith on June 06, 2021, 09:04:44 AM
Good thing I'm a news agency.  :TooFunny:

Hahaha - Fun stuff!

Quote from: simpzenith on June 06, 2021, 09:04:44 AM
Good thing I'm a news agency.  :TooFunny:

;D

Quote from: simpzenith on June 06, 2021, 09:04:44 AM
Good thing I'm a news agency.  :TooFunny:

;D

They're from the gov't and they're here to help!

Quote from: simpzenith on June 06, 2021, 09:04:44 AM
Good thing I'm a news agency.  :TooFunny:

You're bad news to every gobbler... this is a legal fact, you should be good to go


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Dang right y'all are bad news on gobblers. Making turkey hunting and specifically traveling turkey hunting a trend is putting stress on a already stressed/ struggling resource.  Find something else to exploit please. Social media has done enough damage. Y'all have done enough damage.

-Concerned lifelong turkey hunter-

Quote from: catman529 on June 09, 2021, 04:45:56 PM

Quote from: simpzenith on June 06, 2021, 09:04:44 AM
Good thing I'm a news agency.  :TooFunny:

You're bad news to every gobbler... this is a legal fact, you should be good to go


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There he is!!  Kill em all for the content, catman. I can't wait to see y'all shoot another one out of a tree.  I'm not sure everybody realizes just how much skill is involved in killing turkeys out of trees. It's quite the feat!

Dangit man , tell us how you really feel !!
   Tuff crowd

 It's funny how some of the most vocal critics of the YouTubers are obviously watching their videos

Quote from: TonyTurk on June 12, 2021, 10:04:23 AM
It's funny how some of the most vocal critics of the YouTubers are obviously watching their videos

It is actually valuable for the traveling turkey hunter to keep up with them.. So to know where to avoid the following spring!

Quote from: TonyTurk on June 12, 2021, 10:04:23 AM
It's funny how some of the most vocal critics of the YouTubers are obviously watching their videos

How many turkeys do you shootout of trees each year, Tony?

Quote from: deerhunt1988 on June 12, 2021, 11:22:40 AM

Quote from: TonyTurk on June 12, 2021, 10:04:23 AM
It's funny how some of the most vocal critics of the YouTubers are obviously watching their videos

It is actually valuable for the traveling turkey hunter to keep up with them.. So to know where to avoid the following spring!

That's understandable.  But also creates a bit of a catch 22.  You view the videos in order to avoid where they've been... but the more views and watch time they get, the more support for their channel, the more encouragement for them to keep doing what they are doing.