Turkey hunting is something I've done a long time. Only attend church on Sunday beats my record for lengthiest life long places to find Sam. Now in the 37 years I've been doing this I've also been around bowhunting as well. Bowhunting has evolved ahead of turkey hunting in a lot of aspects. Popularity, methods, tools...so the ranks of bow hunters have become divided into traditionalist, compound hunters, crossbow hunters, treestand hunters, stalkers, and so on. Many of these won't hunt, communicate, or even break bread together.
Same thing is going to happen with turkey hunting. Now we have fanners, callers, decoy spreaders, blinders, and run n gunners. We have sub-gaugers, lead is deaders, TSS is the way to the promised landers, and arrow slangers.
And a lot of each have forgotten that there two reasons you are a turkey hunter. To have a good time and kill the turkey. Simple ain't it. You need to enjoy yourself and let the next guy enjoy himself. Honestly I've killed birds about every method I've mentioned and some I find really exciting and others are, well slow. The case in point is I find it exciting.
We are going to become our worse enemies if we divide our ranks. Just remember have yourself a good time, be safe, and kill the turkey.
You're quick to throw blame around but it's not the traditionalist's fault. It's this new breed of hunter, this new attitude of kill at all costs that you should blame.
The ones that care more about the kill than the hunt. Turkey hunting ain't what it used to be that's for sure. As has been previously stated, lots of turkey killers but few turkey hunters. That's more true now than it ever has been. The purist/old school/traditional hunters have respect for the quarry and know that the hunt is WAY more important than the kill. The end result is somewhat anti-climactic to us. So no, we don't just hunt to "kill" turkeys. We know that turkey hunting is about calling the bird to you. As one famous old school guy already mentioned, "Calling is Everything". When it comes to Spring Turkey Hunting and how the game is to be played, that statement is 100% true. But thanks for bringing this up again. It's refreshing to know that some people would rather us set back in silence and pretend that all of this is OK when we know otherwise.
You sir just made my point. It's about your way being the right way.
Quote from: Gooserbat on May 31, 2021, 02:40:15 PM
You sir just made my point. It's about your way being the right way.
In spades...
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Quote from: Gooserbat on May 31, 2021, 02:40:15 PM
It's about your way being the right way.
And often it is in fact, it is the right way. And I believe that in this case, it is.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 31, 2021, 02:37:17 PM
You're quick to throw blame around but it's not the traditionalist's fault. It's this new breed of hunter, this new attitude of kill at all costs that you should blame.
The ones that care more about the kill than the hunt. Turkey hunting ain't what it used to be that's for sure. As has been previously stated, lots of turkey killers but few turkey hunters. That's more true now than it ever has been. The purist/old school/traditional hunters have respect for the quarry and know that the hunt is WAY more important than the kill. The end result is somewhat anti-climactic to us. So no, we don't just hunt to "kill" turkeys. We know that turkey hunting is about calling the bird to you. As one famous old school guy already mentioned, "Calling is Everything". When it comes to Spring Turkey Hunting and how the game is to be played, that statement is 100% true. But thanks for bringing this up again. It's refreshing to know that some people would rather us set back in silence and pretend that all of this is OK when we know otherwise.
You just verified absolutely every point Sam was making. I've seen your posts before on these topics, and I knew what your response would be as soon as I saw you replied. Ihuntoldschool. The username says all you need to know about the person.
Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.
Lol wow. Ihuntoldschool was literally the first example in the OPs textbook.
I expect this post to turn into dumpster fire..I'll side with the old schoolers on this one. Social media, and the internet in general, has done more and will continue to do more harm to hunting than anything else mentioned above. Used to guys knew how to keep their mouth shut when they had a good thing going. BTW there aren't any birds left in KY and TN plan trips elsewhere. :popcorn:
Quote from: Gooserbat on May 31, 2021, 02:20:09 PM
Turkey hunting is something I've done a long time. Only attend church on Sunday beats my record for lengthiest life long places to find Sam. Now in the 37 years I've been doing this I've also been around nowhunting as well. Bowhunting has evolved ahead of turkey hunting in a lot of aspects. Popularity, methods, tools...so the ranks of bow hunters have become divided into traditionalist, compound hunters, crossbow hunters, treestand hunters, stalkers, and so on. Many of these won't hunt, communicate, or even break bread together.
Same thing is going to happen with turkey hunting. Now we have fanners, callers, decoy spreaders, blinders, and run n gunners. We have sub-gaugers, lead is deaders, TSS is the way to the promised landers, and arrow slangers.
And a lot of each have forgotten that there two reasons you are a turkey hunter. To have a good time and kill the turkey. Simple ain't it. You need to enjoy yourself and let the next guy enjoy himself. Honestly I've killed birds about every method I've mentioned and some I find really exciting and others are, well slow. The case in point is I find it exciting.
We are going to become our worse enemies if we divide our ranks. Just remember have yourself a good time, be safe, and kill the turkey.
Absolutely Sam!! Excellent commentary. :icon_thumright:
I've made my feelings known on this subject many times in the past. As long as it's legal, and it makes you happy, then I say good luck to you!! I may not chose to shoot a jake, or a bearded hen, and I might not employ the techniques that others use, but I'll wish them luck and success.
We all don't have the same opportunities in terms of time off to hunt, money to spend on hunting, access to land, ability to put in a chufa plot, etc. Therefore I don't discriminate against those who have less opportunities than I do, or those that have more. I've killed birds with decoys and without, in blinds and sitting against a tree, I've called them in and I've bushwhacked them when I couldn't. I've never reaped or hunted a chufa plot, but I'd like to try it for the experience.
I also won't get into ethics. Legal is written verbatim, whereas ethics is up to individual interpretation.
As hunters we are often our own worst enemies, and we don't even realize it. So I support all legal methods, even if I don't use them. I don't agree with the holier than thou, do as I do or you aren't a real hunter BS. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210531/e07f52999a4b8cbae6ce9c5a84dd8490.jpg)
Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.
Be safe and courteous, do your thing and let others do theirs. Nicely put Sam. Al Baker
I'm beginning to think that some of y'all are using a different alias on the Refuge Forums. Tuleman, is that you???
Quote from: Pluffmud on May 31, 2021, 03:45:30 PM
I'm beginning to think that some of y'all are using a different alias on the Refuge Forums. Tuleman, is that you???
Not Tuleman but I can't help but wonder what there is to argue about with legal duck hunting methods? I'm not on that forum but I've heard there's bickering with that bunch too. Is it social media?
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Quote from: RutnNStrutn on May 31, 2021, 03:34:21 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on May 31, 2021, 02:20:09 PM
Turkey hunting is something I've done a long time. Only attend church on Sunday beats my record for lengthiest life long places to find Sam. Now in the 37 years I've been doing this I've also been around nowhunting as well. Bowhunting has evolved ahead of turkey hunting in a lot of aspects. Popularity, methods, tools...so the ranks of bow hunters have become divided into traditionalist, compound hunters, crossbow hunters, treestand hunters, stalkers, and so on. Many of these won't hunt, communicate, or even break bread together.
Same thing is going to happen with turkey hunting. Now we have fanners, callers, decoy spreaders, blinders, and run n gunners. We have sub-gaugers, lead is deaders, TSS is the way to the promised landers, and arrow slangers.
And a lot of each have forgotten that there two reasons you are a turkey hunter. To have a good time and kill the turkey. Simple ain't it. You need to enjoy yourself and let the next guy enjoy himself. Honestly I've killed birds about every method I've mentioned and some I find really exciting and others are, well slow. The case in point is I find it exciting.
We are going to become our worse enemies if we divide our ranks. Just remember have yourself a good time, be safe, and kill the turkey.
Absolutely Sam!! Excellent commentary. :icon_thumright:
I've made my feelings known on this subject many times in the past. As long as it's legal, and it makes you happy, then I say good luck to you!! I may not chose to shoot a jake, or a bearded hen, and I might not employ the techniques that others use, but I'll wish them luck and success.
We all don't have the same opportunities in terms of time off to hunt, money to spend on hunting, access to land, ability to put in a chufa plot, etc. Therefore I don't discriminate against those who have less opportunities than I do, or those that have more. I've killed birds with decoys and without, in blinds and sitting against a tree, I've called them in and I've bushwhacked them when I couldn't. I've never reaped or hunted a chufa plot, but I'd like to try it for the experience.
I also won't get into ethics. Legal is written verbatim, whereas ethics is up to individual interpretation.
As hunters we are often our own worst enemies, and we don't even realize it. So I support all legal methods, even if I don't use them. I don't agree with the holier than thou, do as I do or you aren't a real hunter BS. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210531/e07f52999a4b8cbae6ce9c5a84dd8490.jpg)
Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.
Jim we're going to have to meet up and kill some turkeys together. Maybe in KS with a fan.
Those who are attempting to monetize turkey hunting have a different view point. The more turkey hunters the more likes on social media or more product sold benefitting their bottom line. Appealing to the masses through social media brings in scores of new hunters/and help making traveling to hunt a viral sensation. This adds stress to the resource resulting in more restrictions and less opportunity for all. South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama etc etc. every action has a equal and opposite reaction. It elementary. That's my bone to pick.....
Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on May 31, 2021, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: Pluffmud on May 31, 2021, 03:45:30 PM
I'm beginning to think that some of y'all are using a different alias on the Refuge Forums. Tuleman, is that you???
Not Tuleman but I can't help but wonder what there is to argue about with legal duck hunting methods? I'm not on that forum but I've heard there's bickering with that bunch too. Is it social media?
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Social media for sure. The hot topics lately are:
Pressure
Nonresidents
Extended range chokes
The Kansas subforum in general
Where are the ducks
There are no ducks
Habitat
Too many hunters
Not enough ducks
The gubmint ain't allocating tax dollars for ducks properly
DU isn't either
RM Custom calls vs $10 Handel's
Mud motors
You see, it's really just a bunch of like minded individuals, all who are passionate about hunting waterfowl, have seen a decline in recent years, and are scrambling to point blame on something/someone. This forum has trended that direction the past few months.
Quote from: arkrem870 on May 31, 2021, 04:04:12 PM
Those who are attempting to monetize turkey hunting have a different view point. The more turkey hunters the more likes on social media or more product sold benefitting their bottom line. Appealing to the masses through social media brings in scores of new hunters/and help making traveling to hunt a viral sensation. This adds stress to the resource resulting in more restrictions and less opportunity for all. South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama etc etc. every action has a equal and opposite reaction. It elementary. That's my bone to pick.....
I'm in the same place as you, certain groups of people are exploiting a dwindling natural resource for their own monetary gain. The bigger issue is that a lot of people are ok with it.
Spinning wing decoys are ground zero for the duck situation.....the wholesale slaughter of juvenile ducks up and down the flyway has consequences
Quote from: arkrem870 on May 31, 2021, 04:18:30 PM
Spinning wing decoys are ground zero for the duck situation.....the wholesale slaughter of juvenile ducks up and down the flyway has consequences
This is not a duck forum... No offense but
Quote from: Pluffmud on May 31, 2021, 04:13:30 PM
Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on May 31, 2021, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: Pluffmud on May 31, 2021, 03:45:30 PM
I'm beginning to think that some of y'all are using a different alias on the Refuge Forums. Tuleman, is that you???
Not Tuleman but I can't help but wonder what there is to argue about with legal duck hunting methods? I'm not on that forum but I've heard there's bickering with that bunch too. Is it social media?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Social media for sure. The hot topics lately are:
Pressure
Nonresidents
Extended range chokes
The Kansas subforum in general
Where are the ducks
There are no ducks
Habitat
Too many hunters
Not enough ducks
The gubmint ain't allocating tax dollars for ducks properly
DU isn't either
RM Custom calls vs $10 Handel's
Mud motors
You see, it's really just a bunch of like minded individuals, all who are passionate about hunting waterfowl, have seen a decline in recent years, and are scrambling to point blame on something/someone. This forum has trended that direction the past few months.
Okay. It's not so much the hunting methods then. I duck hunting a lot and I typically blame the weather for no ducks. Not much to argue about there. But honestly I get to shoot enough ducks. We use decoys and calls and a jerk string. We also have a dog that retrieves. I didn't think there'd be much to argue about there either.
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Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on May 31, 2021, 04:30:02 PM
Quote from: Pluffmud on May 31, 2021, 04:13:30 PM
Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on May 31, 2021, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: Pluffmud on May 31, 2021, 03:45:30 PM
I'm beginning to think that some of y'all are using a different alias on the Refuge Forums. Tuleman, is that you???
Not Tuleman but I can't help but wonder what there is to argue about with legal duck hunting methods? I'm not on that forum but I've heard there's bickering with that bunch too. Is it social media?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Social media for sure. The hot topics lately are:
Pressure
Nonresidents
Extended range chokes
The Kansas subforum in general
Where are the ducks
There are no ducks
Habitat
Too many hunters
Not enough ducks
The gubmint ain't allocating tax dollars for ducks properly
DU isn't either
RM Custom calls vs $10 Handel's
Mud motors
You see, it's really just a bunch of like minded individuals, all who are passionate about hunting waterfowl, have seen a decline in recent years, and are scrambling to point blame on something/someone. This forum has trended that direction the past few months.
Okay. It's not so much the hunting methods then. I duck hunting a lot and I typically blame the weather for no ducks. Not much to argue about there. But honestly I get to shoot enough ducks. We use decoys and calls and a jerk string. We also have a dog that retrieves. I didn't think there'd be much to argue about there either.
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Uh oh. I need to delete my post...
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I just hope this thread lasts long enough for me to read it while sitting by my fire with a beverage. Should be entertaining.
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WOW from turkey hunting to duck hunting. Very interesting post .. lot's of opinions ..
I do sincerely apologize for bringing up duck hunting. I agree with the OP on this btw, if it matters. If you've seen my comments on similar threads you know that.
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Quote from: Happy on May 31, 2021, 04:39:44 PM
I just hope this thread lasts long enough for me to read it while sitting by my fire with a beverage. Should be entertaining.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Chug Chug Chug Chug CHUG ;D
Quote from: Gooserbat on May 31, 2021, 04:21:42 PM
Quote from: arkrem870 on May 31, 2021, 04:18:30 PM
Spinning wing decoys are ground zero for the duck situation.....the wholesale slaughter of juvenile ducks up and down the flyway has consequences
This is not a duck forum... No offense but
I'm not offended
I brought up duck hunting. I'm not sure which one I enjoy more... Waterfowl or turkey. I have a deep love for them both. They really are not at all much different from one another. I brought it up because It seems to me that turkey hunting is beginning to go through the beginnings of what the waterfowl hunting community is now... A House Divided. It will not stand. Take a step back and look at the issues amongst the waterfowl community, and look at what we can do to keep that from infecting the turkey hunting community as well.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on May 31, 2021, 02:37:17 PM
You're quick to throw blame around but it's not the traditionalist's fault. It's this new breed of hunter, this new attitude of kill at all costs that you should blame.
The ones that care more about the kill than the hunt. Turkey hunting ain't what it used to be that's for sure. As has been previously stated, lots of turkey killers but few turkey hunters. That's more true now than it ever has been. The purist/old school/traditional hunters have respect for the quarry and know that the hunt is WAY more important than the kill. The end result is somewhat anti-climactic to us. So no, we don't just hunt to "kill" turkeys. We know that turkey hunting is about calling the bird to you. As one famous old school guy already mentioned, "Calling is Everything". When it comes to Spring Turkey Hunting and how the game is to be played, that statement is 100% true. But thanks for bringing this up again. It's refreshing to know that some people would rather us set back in silence and pretend that all of this is OK when we know otherwise.
I agree with much of what you say, but to be honest I saw absolutely not one single place where he signaled out traditionalists. I do agree that the kill at all costs attitude is very bad, I blame mostly TV shoes and Youtube for that myself. That said I have started buying some of the old Primos Truth series videos from 2001 on back, I think it was far more laid back then than it is now.
If we stay within the limits of the law turkey will do fine, they will rebound from bad hatches and predators.
Habitat is the number one priority, prime habitat will have birds. Anything we can do to improve some habitat would go a long way.
All these wildlife issues are complex and there is never a singular cause, typically death by a thousand cuts!
Bush Honeysuckle is becoming an issue in the Midwest, look at a stand of timber with that garbage in it, nothing but mature trees and Honeysuckle, no brush, briars, or anything for hens to nest in!
Great points raised. I certainly think that killing for notoriety has no place in the sport. However, everyone here can surely count an excellent hunter they've met in their life who couldn't be called a sportsman in even the most generous terms. The unfortunate thing for our sport is that there are a great many who don't hold this great pursuit dear to their hearts and see it as a way to a rich life.
I don't have much time for those folks.
I also don't have much time for those who insist that if I do not hold to the turkey hunting customs of a certain class in a certain region of the United States, then my pursuit of the sport is a sham. I certainly admire the forbears in my sport, but as a Canadian, hunting turkeys who had been absent in my homeland for nearly a century, it rankles me to hear that some foreigner from a completely different part of the world has the gall to tell me how to hunt the birds on the land my great-grandfather farmed.
Decoy or no, blind or leant against a dead Ash, though I prefer the latter in both counts, it hardly matters to me that my neighbour may differ with me on those counts - he is still my brother, or sister, in this grand pursuit. The only thing stopping us seems to the the farmers clearing bush by the hundreds of acres every year as prices of land and new equipment go through the roof.
hey Sam you brought up church, front row baptist or back row Methodist? i sit at the back, i hunt land that i own, so no one can bother me to much!
I see the " after season blues " and boredom is setting in ...
Kings of Leon?
I'm a caller, not a crawler.
If it's legal, do what makes you happy. But if you are carrying electronic tail-raising decoys or decoys on wheels into the woods, please reconsider turkey hunting and take up fishing. :funnyturkey:
I too have my preferences and I have tried most methods, old and new. I have settled into the fold of traditional, "call the bird to you" group, because that is what I find most enjoyable. I agree the only true standard is what is legal, but not all that is legal is, for want of better words, kosher. will I, in the right circumstance, go off plan and preference to kill a certain bird, yes. There is really only two groups of sportsmen I despise, slobs and unsafe. How do I define both?
Slobs - I will do or get what I want no matter who likes it or who it hurts and offends. I will glorify myself and let the whole damn world know how great I am. Laws are for suckers and courtesy means your last in line. I poach, over harvest and wound and cripple, as long as I get mine the hell with everyone else. The final part to this group is, total disregard for the well being of the resource.
Unsafe - Thoughtless and unconcerned about others. Simply careless and too lazy to take proper caution. Usually driven by success first and foremost. There's usually a good measure of slob in the unsafe. There is a faction of true sportsmen that still are unsafe, and they typically just aren't focused on it.
Beyond these two groups I can tolerate and wish anyone success and good luck afield.
Whew, grab some popcorn for this post!
Hunting is under enough pressure from the antihunting people, we who love it need to circle the wagons.
Protect and improve habitat
If turkey numbers are low cut tag numbers
Show others that "hunting" is very different from "killing"
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I killed a bird this year. Not in any way a traditional hunt. I posted the story on a duck hunting site in a turkey hunting section. NO WAY would I post it here because I knew I'd be tarred and feathered on old gobbler. I followed all laws and I have turkey to eat. I'm happy!
Some guy named "Gooser" started this thread so that must mean it's ok to mention waterfowl here. :TooFunny:
Quote from: Gooserbat on May 31, 2021, 03:57:50 PM
Quote from: RutnNStrutn on May 31, 2021, 03:34:21 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on May 31, 2021, 02:20:09 PM
Turkey hunting is something I've done a long time. Only attend church on Sunday beats my record for lengthiest life long places to find Sam. Now in the 37 years I've been doing this I've also been around nowhunting as well. Bowhunting has evolved ahead of turkey hunting in a lot of aspects. Popularity, methods, tools...so the ranks of bow hunters have become divided into traditionalist, compound hunters, crossbow hunters, treestand hunters, stalkers, and so on. Many of these won't hunt, communicate, or even break bread together.
Same thing is going to happen with turkey hunting. Now we have fanners, callers, decoy spreaders, blinders, and run n gunners. We have sub-gaugers, lead is deaders, TSS is the way to the promised landers, and arrow slangers.
And a lot of each have forgotten that there two reasons you are a turkey hunter. To have a good time and kill the turkey. Simple ain't it. You need to enjoy yourself and let the next guy enjoy himself. Honestly I've killed birds about every method I've mentioned and some I find really exciting and others are, well slow. The case in point is I find it exciting.
We are going to become our worse enemies if we divide our ranks. Just remember have yourself a good time, be safe, and kill the turkey.
Absolutely Sam!! Excellent commentary. :icon_thumright:
I've made my feelings known on this subject many times in the past. As long as it's legal, and it makes you happy, then I say good luck to you!! I may not chose to shoot a jake, or a bearded hen, and I might not employ the techniques that others use, but I'll wish them luck and success.
We all don't have the same opportunities in terms of time off to hunt, money to spend on hunting, access to land, ability to put in a chufa plot, etc. Therefore I don't discriminate against those who have less opportunities than I do, or those that have more. I've killed birds with decoys and without, in blinds and sitting against a tree, I've called them in and I've bushwhacked them when I couldn't. I've never reaped or hunted a chufa plot, but I'd like to try it for the experience.
I also won't get into ethics. Legal is written verbatim, whereas ethics is up to individual interpretation.
As hunters we are often our own worst enemies, and we don't even realize it. So I support all legal methods, even if I don't use them. I don't agree with the holier than thou, do as I do or you aren't a real hunter BS. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210531/e07f52999a4b8cbae6ce9c5a84dd8490.jpg)
Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.
Jim we're going to have to meet up and kill some turkeys together. Maybe in KS with a fan.
I'd love that Sam!! I haven't been to Kansas yet!!
Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.
If I wanted a sport I would have picked up a baseball, but I picked up a 12 gauge. As long as it's legal who cares. Old heads have a stroke when you tell them you go hunting to bring home meat
Change can be hard for a lot of people. Old...Old timers used a single shot and a grass reed to bring in birds, what would they think about us newbies using auto-loaders, decoys, blinds, and all the numerous calls? They must have thought we were the scum of the hunting world, and would degrade that great hunting experience they new. These new young-uns, shooting birds at 40 yrds. What has the world come to??? "Hunting will come to an end before long", they would say. But 60/70 years later, hunting is better than ever. I'll go church on you all....You don't have to like the sin....but you should still love everyone....Just like, you don't have to like the way everyone hunts, but it's not your place to judge. Just love them for being a hunter and part of (as Gooserbat said) our team!
Gooserbat, I see your point with what you say . However, what gets me about the newer methods of killing turkeys is it opens the doors for a series of problems...... Problems that other wise would not be there if turkey hunting culture ramaind around calling the bird in.
Do all the new methods today work to kill more turkeys absolutely. However, these new methods are so easy to imploy anyone can do it and kill a turkey. Unlike the guys who took time to learn how to call turkeys with years of experience in order to be successful.
Point I'm making here is that most pepole that invest time in a skill usually need to devote a lot of time/years to be proficient in it. A lot of people drop out because it's to difficult to learn or they lose interest. Now that there is plenty of easy fixes to kill turkey the resource will take a much more serious beating then what the traditionalist hunters where doing.
With more and more newer hunters now then ever before because of social media and youtube these tactics will hurt turkey populations everywhere. This of course can be disastrous for states that are struggling like in the south east. Not to also mention some of these tactics are just plan dangerous. I don't think it's wise that some groups promote these tactics on public land giving new hunters more encouragement to do something obviously stupid.
All being said I have my way of hunting I like best because for me it's about respecting the bird and fooling him with what he thinks he "HEARS" is a turkey as that gobbler comes in looking for you. This of course as you know is hard to do and usually a low success game with the turkey winning most cases. Thats ok because in my opinion it's about having fun and not always killing a turkey. You are after all trying to reverse nature by making a turkey do what he was designed not to do. If you can pull this off you have really done something. Even if you don't "kill" a turkey you got everything one would won't in my opinion. Hunting In this way also protects the resource as stated before it's very difficult to do and odds not stacked in your favor.
Now take today's new hunters and methods and it's all about the I just got to kill a turkey or a lot of turkeys at all cost. Blinds that a person can pop up in the middle of an open field that completely conceal movement. Life like decoys that you can attach real feathers and even wear on your head to replicate turkey appearance and behavior. Shot shells that can kill turkey farther then what was thought possible at ranges that a gobbler usually hangs up at. All this driven by mast droves of new hunters fallowing there favorite social media/you tube hero's doing anything for a dead turkey to get them likes.
Dose not sound very respectful to the bird to me as these tactics and tools take to much of an advantage over there basic natural instincts. Primarily there sharp eye site that they rely very heavily on to survive.
I don't of course agree any of this is good for the betterment of the wild Turkey. As i think it will deplete the resource beyond what the current game laws are to keep populations in check. Especially in places turkeys are struggling. All this brings me to the point of just because you can hunt anyway or however you won't when dose it come to a point of hurting the resource beyond what we or Mother Nature can fix?
For this reason this is why there are laws in place to protect wildlife that people cant take advantage of. Is it easer to catch fish with a casting net then catching them with a rod, yup. Would it be easier to spot light and kill deer at night when there more active Instead of during the day, heck yea. Lastly is it easer to take full advantage of a turkeys eye site by fanning, useing decoys, or shooting them at ranges so far with TSS it's almost like using a rifle? Absolutely!
I have said this before and will say it again. Just because it's legal dose not mean it's ethical and particularly good for the resource. Turkey hunting is not a sport in which success should be measured by a kill or how many you kill. Nor dose it require a world full of score keepers intent on killing them anyway they can.
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Quote from: MS TurkeyHunter on June 01, 2021, 11:40:52 PM
Gooserbat, I see your point with what you say . However, what gets me about the newer methods of killing turkeys is it opens the doors for a series of problems...... Problems that other wise would not be there if turkey hunting culture ramaind around calling the bird in.
Do all the new methods today work to kill more turkeys absolutely. However, these new methods are so easy to imploy anyone can do it and kill a turkey. Unlike the guys who took time to learn how to call turkeys with years of experience in order to be successful.
Point I'm making here is that most pepole that invest time in a skill usually need to devote a lot of time/years to be proficient in it. A lot of people drop out because it's to difficult to learn or they lose interest. Now that there is plenty of easy fixes to kill turkey the resource will take a much more serious beating then what the traditionalist hunters where doing.
With more and more newer hunters now then ever before because of social media and youtube these tactics will hurt turkey populations everywhere. This of course can be disastrous for states that are struggling like in the south east. Not to also mention some of these tactics are just plan dangerous. I don't think it's wise that some groups promote these tactics on public land giving new hunters more encouragement to do something obviously stupid.
All being said I have my way of hunting I like best because for me it's about respecting the bird and fooling him with what he thinks he "HEARS" is a turkey as that gobbler comes in looking for you. This of course as you know is hard to do and usually a low success game with the turkey winning most cases. Thats ok because in my opinion it's about having fun and not always killing a turkey. You are after all trying to reverse nature by making a turkey do what he was designed not to do. If you can pull this off you have really done something. Even if you don't "kill" a turkey you got everything one would won't in my opinion. Hunting In this way also protects the resource as stated before it's very difficult to do and odds not stacked in your favor.
Now take today's new hunters and methods and it's all about the I just got to kill a turkey or a lot of turkeys at all cost. Blinds that a person can pop up in the middle of an open field that completely conceal movement. Life like decoys that you can attach real feathers and even wear on your head to replicate turkey appearance and behavior. Shot shells that can kill turkey farther then what was thought possible at ranges that a gobbler usually hangs up at. All this driven by mast droves of new hunters fallowing there favorite social media/you tube hero's doing anything for a dead turkey to get them likes.
Dose not sound very respectful to the bird to me as these tactics and tools take to much of an advantage over there basic natural instincts. Primarily there sharp eye site that they rely very heavily on to survive.
I don't of course agree any of this is good for the betterment of the wild Turkey. As i think it will deplete the resource beyond what the current game laws are to keep populations in check. Especially in places turkeys are struggling. All this brings me to the point of just because you can hunt anyway or however you won't when dose it come to a point of hurting the resource beyond what we or Mother Nature can fix?
For this reason this is why there are laws in place to protect wildlife that people cant take advantage of. Is it easer to catch fish with a casting net then catching them with a rod, yup. Would it be easier to spot light and kill deer at night when there more active Instead of during the day, heck yea. Lastly is it easer to take full advantage of a turkeys eye site by fanning, useing decoys, or shooting them at ranges so far with TSS it's almost like using a rifle? Absolutely!
I have said this before and will say it again. Just because it's legal dose not mean it's ethical and particularly good for the resource. Turkey hunting is not a sport in which success should be measured by a kill or how many you kill. Nor dose it require a world full of score keepers intent on killing them anyway they can.
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I like this. Well put sir.
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Look at harvest reports, some states have descent number while some are pitiful. Some have talked about old timers saying what they think about new methods, should you be able to bait also? Years ago turkeys almost eradicated by overharvest. Talkin about being divided some are and some are not some things we agree on some things we don't that's just a nature of people. It all falls back on the laws and what we want to have for the future of turkey hunting. I live in Mississippi and the turkey hunting especially south of the state is terrible compare to 30 years ago. We would have never had good hunting back then if it had not been for conservationist who truly cared was not all about the Benjamins as much as it is nowadays. We definitely need to come together or we won't have turkeys to hunt even in those places they are now just a matter of time some states that's saw 20000 or more birds kill will eventually see half or less and when it gets down that low it's going to be harder and harder to recover I've watched it here in my own state try to talk to the game and fish and all I got was a bunch of Lies. Turkey populations have more than a few problems, we who love the sport must try to get along an stay after state DNR AND GAME OFFICIALS.
Let's not put it on just new hunters. They learned it from somebody. I'd say they learned it from watching well known turkey hunters on YouTube and from there TV shows. Success sales products. That's where I found out about reaping by watching a well known TV celebrity do it. I have not done it and will not do it. I just love hearing the first gobbles of the morning with the raising sun. I love playing the game with TOM TURKEY. But if your a beginner and you see something that works easier of course they're going to do it. It's that generation they're lazier and have things handed to them. I know older gentleman to that's it about the kill to. They can't be happy for someone else that makes a great kill. They're selfish they have to kill the most birds the bigger bucks and shoot more ducks. Use any method possible to do it. Lost a friendship of 7 years just last month do to it. My so called friend was one of those selfish hunters. Never happy for someone else. How many of those people do you know?
I think part of the rub is on this whole "traditional vs new age" is from where this criticism comes from as well. Is it coming from an "I am better than you" standpoint or is it from a " Hey, let's protect the resource and not act like a bunch of lazy,spoiled children" perspective? Our appearance matters and the fact that killing a turkey by any legal means necessary has now taken center stage is not a good look in my opinion. It certainly plays a huge role in who I decide to spend time in the woods with.
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Quote from: Happy on June 02, 2021, 08:56:53 AM
Is it coming from an "I am better than you" standpoint or is it from a " Hey, let's protect the resource and not act like a bunch of lazy,spoiled children" perspective? Our appearance matters and the fact that killing a turkey by any legal means necessary has now taken center stage is not a good look in my opinion.
Good point.
No offence to anyone, but we are killing the O.G. forum with all the nonsensical purity tests.I have no problem with anyone's hunting methods as long as they are legal. Don't like the laws? Work on changing them instead of demonizing your fellow hunters. People pay taxes, buy licences and tags, follow the game laws, and then get treated like lepers, just because they don't follow "your rules". News flash, what might be tradition where you live, might be frowned on where i live. It is turkey hunting, not a religion. What is "Old School" anyways? Shooting them off the roost with a flintlock is hard core old school, is anyone advocating that? Shooting autoloading shotguns with depleted uranium ammo with red dots is old school? Or is old school just someone's personal perception on how things ought to be? It seems we have less and less new members joining O.G., and staying here, every year. For the record, i hunt with just calls, seldom use a decoy, and occasionally enjoy sitting in a blind on a rainy day on my back 40 when i'm not hunting public land. All i ask of my fellow turkey hunters is to be safe and follow the law, and be respectful of others. :icon_thumright:
My season consisted of 5 archery birds (blind and decoys), then a buddy came to visit and shot two with his crossbow (blind and decoys) one of which was 52yds, called in a shotgun bird to the decoys for a buddy and shot a bird myself from that same setup later in the day, then finished off my season with a nice fan crawl. All ended with a legally harvest bird and some smiles. All equally excititing with the exception of that 52 yarder with the xbow after the bird hung up for 45min with his hens in the decoys. That being said 52yds is a chip shot for the TSS guys. I've shot one bird without a decoy in the past 4 seasons and that was a NE bird that I crawled within 60yds of in a pasture and called across a fence. Aside from that the last time I consistently hunted without one was chasing easterns in the timber growing up in IA. I've taken 5 with a fan over the years only one of which was a hard charging bird like you see in so many videos. The other times it was something to keep their attention off of you while you slip into range . 3 out of 4 birds would pay zero attention or run the other way. Different strokes for different folks. Whacking one with a fan is about as tough as "calling one in" to 60+yds and shooting it with a $10 shell.
Quote from: Happy on June 02, 2021, 08:56:53 AM
I think part of the rub is on this whole "traditional vs new age" is from where this criticism comes from as well. Is it coming from an "I am better than you" standpoint or is it from a " Hey, let's protect the resource and not act like a bunch of lazy,spoiled children" perspective? Our appearance matters and the fact that killing a turkey by any legal means necessary has now taken center stage is not a good look in my opinion. It certainly plays a huge role in who I decide to spend time in the woods with.
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Good post .. Amen...
Quote from: Happy on June 02, 2021, 08:56:53 AM
I think part of the rub is on this whole "traditional vs new age" is from where this criticism comes from as well. Is it coming from an "I am better than you" standpoint or is it from a " Hey, let's protect the resource and not act like a bunch of lazy,spoiled children" perspective? Our appearance matters and the fact that killing a turkey by any legal means necessary has now taken center stage is not a good look in my opinion. It certainly plays a huge role in who I decide to spend time in the woods with.
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Good post Happy!! :icon_thumright:
Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.
Quote from: the Ward on June 02, 2021, 09:55:25 AM
No offence to anyone, but we are killing the O.G. forum with all the nonsensical purity tests.I have no problem with anyone's hunting methods as long as they are legal. Don't like the laws? Work on changing them instead of demonizing your fellow hunters. People pay taxes, buy licences and tags, follow the game laws, and then get treated like lepers, just because they don't follow "your rules". News flash, what might be tradition where you live, might be frowned on where i live. It is turkey hunting, not a religion. What is "Old School" anyways? Shooting them off the roost with a flintlock is hard core old school, is anyone advocating that? Shooting autoloading shotguns with depleted uranium ammo with red dots is old school? Or is old school just someone's personal perception on how things ought to be? It seems we have less and less new members joining O.G., and staying here, every year. For the record, i hunt with just calls, seldom use a decoy, and occasionally enjoy sitting in a blind on a rainy day on my back 40 when i'm not hunting public land. All i ask of my fellow turkey hunters is to be safe and follow the law, and be respectful of others. :icon_thumright:
Yes sir!! :icon_thumright:
Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.
Quote from: AndyN on June 02, 2021, 10:11:10 AM
My season consisted of 5 archery birds (blind and decoys), then a buddy came to visit and shot two with his crossbow (blind and decoys) one of which was 52yds, called in a shotgun bird to the decoys for a buddy and shot a bird myself from that same setup later in the day, then finished off my season with a nice fan crawl. All ended with a legally harvest bird and some smiles. All equally excititing with the exception of that 52 yarder with the xbow after the bird hung up for 45min with his hens in the decoys. That being said 52yds is a chip shot for the TSS guys. I've shot one bird without a decoy in the past 4 seasons and that was a NE bird that I crawled within 60yds of in a pasture and called across a fence. Aside from that the last time I consistently hunted without one was chasing easterns in the timber growing up in IA. I've taken 5 with a fan over the years only one of which was a hard charging bird like you see in so many videos. The other times it was something to keep their attention off of you while you slip into range . 3 out of 4 birds would pay zero attention or run the other way. Different strokes for different folks. Whacking one with a fan is about as tough as "calling one in" to 60+yds and shooting it with a $10 shell.
What made the 52 yard xbow shot not so exciting?
I had something profound to say again but forgot what is was while catching up on the posts. Oh yeah, just remembered it. The folks that may need to read this thread are typically not those on OG. The very VAST majority of turkey hunters don't look for or give information on hunting forums or Facebook for that matter.
Another scenario I'd like to put forth is what would the traditionalists have done had the newer methods of turkey hunting been introduced 50 years ago? Were decoys illegal to use 50 years ago? If they were available and legal would the "old timers" have used them? Who knows what a younger version of yourself would have used to hunt turkeys if other hunters had been using them at the time successfully and legally. Not all young hunters today end up reaping or using decoys but many do. It's an option. Folks end up using what they're used to, comfortable with, or what's available at the time. There are hunters today that kill more birds than they legally should or kill too many in general by whatever means necessary, legal or illegal. There were hunters doing that 50 years ago as well. I could go on but I'm getting bored with that line of thinking.
Turkey populations per state is another issue I have that I've seen used in this thread. When I read that the turkey population is 20 or so thousand in a given state that's probably accurate/decent information. But if you were to break that down to mature hens and gobblers that would be more meaningful, but really hard to obtain. If I were to guess what the ratio of mature gobblers to hens is in my area, based on what I see, I'd say it's about 4-6 hens per gobbler. There may be an optimal ratio and if you know it please share. We, or at least myself, don't shoot hens. Hopefully we try to harvest mature male birds. To me, and this may be nonsense, limits should be set according to the number of harvestable birds. It may not be easy to do but it would be a more accurate way of doing it. Then is that equitable for the whole state? Obviously there's a lot of variability within each state. You may have turkeys running out the wazoo in one part of a state and in another part it makes local news to just see one.
Those of us on this forum enjoy talking about turkey hunting in general in an online format. I know no local turkey hunters that know about OG and when I bring it up they roll their eyes or just don't seem to care. Most know what they're going to do and how and where they're going to do it. You're on this forum because you care enough about turkey hunting to share experiences, read about other peoples experiences (I personally love reading about and telling turkey hunting stories), buy and sell turkey calls, talk about turkey calls, talk about turkey guns and shells and other turkey related stuff. Notice I didn't mention decoys. Sure people post topics on decoys from time-to-time but most unknowingly do so at great risk of persecution. At least one person on here will chime in and tell the OP to stop using decoys and learn to call. Big turn off for new members. I talk about using decoys from time to time but I reluctantly do it. But if I'm to tell the truth about my hunting experiences I need to do so. Of all the subforums on OG there is no decoy forum. Obviously a popular tool for hunting turkeys but no place for it here. Refuge forum has a decoy subforum along with calling. Duck hunters use decoys and calling to hunt ducks. There are some obvious differences between hunting ducks and turkeys but the basics remain the same. I wonder what the traditional duck hunters would say if duck decoys were suddenly introduced? I know what they say about spinning wing decoys. It's a little different with ducks because spinning wing decoys are hard to resist for young, uneducated birds. Turkey decoys work the same way but have the ability to bring in more mature birds.
I don't have answers, only questions. I consider OG members to be mostly people of good conscience that want to learn, teach and share about turkey hunting. I only purchase calls recommended here by OG members because I trust you. Let others feel welcome here without judgment of legal hunting methods or they'll go somewhere else and maybe listen to others that may lead them astray.
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Meleagris gallopavo
Hmm, are you sure posting rational common sense is allowed on the internet? :funnyturkey: :agreed:
Quote from: owlhoot on June 02, 2021, 09:09:01 PM
What made the 52 yard xbow shot not so exciting?
Something about a 50+yard shot doesn't make me feel like I've "won the game". Out of the 10 birds I was on this year all but two were from 8yds to 25yds. That being said that bird hit a 60yd wall 4 days in a row so it felt good to seal the deal.
Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on June 02, 2021, 09:16:14 PM
I had something profound to say again but forgot what it was while catching up on the posts. Oh yeah, just remembered it. The folks that may need to read this thread are typically not those on OG. The very VAST majority of turkey hunters don't look for or give information on hunting forums or Facebook for that matter.
Another scenario I'd like to put forth is what would the traditionalists have done had the newer methods of turkey hunting been introduced 50 years ago? Were decoys illegal to use 50 years ago? If they were available and legal would the "old-timers" have used them? Who knows what a younger version of yourself would have used to hunt turkeys if other hunters had been using them at the time successfully and legally. Not all young hunters today end up reaping or using decoys but many do. It's an option. Folks end up using what they're used to, comfortable with, or what's available at the time. There are hunters today that kill more birds than they legally should or kill too many in general by whatever means necessary, legal or illegal. There were hunters doing that 50 years ago as well. I could go on but I'm getting bored with that line of thinking.
Turkey populations per state is another issue I have that I've seen used in this thread. When I read that the turkey population is 20 or so thousand in a given state that's probably accurate/decent information. But if you were to break that down to mature hens and gobblers that would be more meaningful, but really hard to obtain. If I were to guess what the ratio of mature gobblers to hens is in my area, based on what I see, I'd say it's about 4-6 hens per gobbler. There may be an optimal ratio and if you know it please share. We, or at least myself, don't shoot hens. Hopefully, we try to harvest mature male birds. To me, and this may be nonsense, limits should be set according to the number of harvestable birds. It may not be easy to do but it would be a more accurate way of doing it. Then is that equitable for the whole state? Obviously, there's a lot of variability within each state. You may have turkeys running out of the wazoo in one part of a state and in another part it makes local news to just see one.
Those of us on this forum enjoy talking about turkey hunting in general in an online format. I know no local turkey hunters that know about OG and when I bring it up they roll their eyes or just don't seem to care. Most know what they're going to do and how and where they're going to do it. You're on this forum because you care enough about turkey hunting to share experiences, read about other peoples experiences (I personally love reading about and telling turkey hunting stories), buy and sell turkey calls, talk about turkey calls, talk about turkey guns, and shells and other turkey-related stuff. Notice I didn't mention decoys. Sure people post topics on decoys from time to time but most unknowingly do so at great risk of persecution. At least one person on here will chime in and tell the OP to stop using decoys and learn to call. A big turn-off for new members. I talk about using decoys from time to time but I reluctantly do it. But if I'm to tell the truth about the hunting experiences I need to do so. Of all the sub forums on OG, there is no decoy forum. Obviously a popular tool for hunting turkeys but no place for it here. Refuge forum has a decoy subforum along with calling. Duck hunters use decoys and calling to hunt ducks. There are some obvious differences between hunting ducks and turkeys but the basics remain the same. I wonder what the traditional duck hunters would say if duck decoys were suddenly introduced? I know what they say about spinning wing decoys. It's a little different with ducks because spinning wing decoys are hard to resist for young, uneducated birds. Turkey decoys work the same way but have the ability to bring in more mature birds.
I don't have answers, only questions. I consider OG members to be mostly people of good conscience that want to learn, teach and share about turkey hunting. I only purchase calls recommended here by OG members because I trust you. Let others feel welcome here without judgment of legal hunting methods or they'll go somewhere else and maybe listen to others that may lead them astray.
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Very well stated, my thoughts exactly.
I don't hunt turkeys to just to kill one. If that's all it was, I'd as soon go fishing. There's much more to it. Non-traditional methods and rules don't touch it. Such hunters miss out.
And apparently turkey populations won't stand refined methods for killing them for food, anyhow.
Quote from: howl on June 03, 2021, 03:01:30 PM
I don't hunt turkeys to just to kill one. If that's all it was, I'd as soon go fishing. There's much more to it. Non-traditional methods and rules don't touch it. Such hunters miss out.
And apparently turkey populations won't stand refined methods for killing them for food, anyhow.
Fishing doesn't always mean catching and hunting doesn't always mean killing. The assumption is that non-traditional turkey hunting methods are easier and always equal killing. That's an incorrect assumption. I agree that non-traditional methods improve the chances of a hunter killing a bird. I don't know too many hunters that use decoys that just sit out there with a decoy and don't call. I imagine there are some that do. For some folks that's enough. I've told members of this forum about boring, textbook hunts where you get out early, set a decoy up. Hide and be still and quiet. Use a turkey call. And a gobbler appears and begins to flog the decoy. You shoot the gobbler. To me, honestly that's a boring turkey hunt. For me, I love the hunts where I don't or can't use a decoy and I hunt a bird for hours and try to figure out how to get him. I've left the woods positively pumped up about the experience without pulling the trigger. To me pulling the trigger is the anticlimactic finale of outwitting the bird. So I agree with you howl, that hunters that don't experience that may be missing out on a fantastic aspect of turkey hunting. I don't use all legal means available to kill turkeys, but I use more than strict traditionalists. I use decoys based on hunting situations. Often times I find that decoys can hurt your chances as many or more times than they help. You only know this if you use decoys. I never know what is going to work or what isn't on a particular hunt. Turkeys may behave differently each day in a given area and they behave differently from location to location, even if the locations are only a mile or two apart. That's challenge enough for me. So I hunted every day except maybe 5 days from April 10th to May 15th in NC and VA. I killed a bird on the first day in NC and the last day in VA and killed 3 in-between. That's what I would call a perfect season. If I would have tagged out in the first week i would have been miserable. Probably would have taken more people turkey hunting or just gone without a gun. My point is, that's over a month of turkey hunting, about 30 days of getting up at 4 or 4:30 AM and being in the woods till 7:30 AM on weekdays and whenever I killed a turkey or called it quits on the weekends. That's at least 30 hunts (sometimes I go to different spots on the same day on weekends) and 5 birds to show for it. Some folks would say I'm a poor hunter, and that may be true. But I'm using both traditional and non-traditional tactics to hunt. If I was just killing turkeys I should have tagged out in the first 5 days.
My theory, and this is just a theory, is that today's young or new hunters start out using non-traditional tactics and if they're too successful they get bored with it or if they're unsuccessful they quit turkey hunting. The ones that get bored with it gravitate to more traditional methods and may become better turkey hunters because it's more interesting and challenging. That need to make it more challenging varies from individual to individual and each hunter reaches a point where it's challenging enough for them. There always have been hunters that hunt to kill by any means necessary their whole lives for one reason or another. It may be ego for some to show that they can be successful to the masses or it may be that their greedy and just want to kill birds. I have no control over any of the aforementioned individuals nor do I want it. I only have control over what I say and do, that's it. So say a new turkey hunter gets on OG and want to ask innocent questions about using decoys and gets slammed on here for bringing it up. They aren't asking these questions because they're game hogs are trying to impress anyone, they're asking what they think are legitimate questions about using decoys because they've heard, read, or watched videos about using them to successfully bag a turkey. Say that new turkey hunter continues to hunt but stays away from OG because they feel the forum isn't supportive. That hunter begins to become fascinated with turkeys and turkey hunting and gradually gets better with woodsmanship and using traditional and non-traditional ways of hunting turkeys. To me the fascination is with the birds themselves and the hunting is a way to interact with them. Anyway, this new hunter becomes a fantastic turkey hunter with stories to tell and helpful experiences to share with others. This hunter has amazing experiences and knowledge that we on OG will never know about because we ran that new hunter off. You never know...
Quote from: the Ward on June 02, 2021, 09:55:25 AM
No offence to anyone, but we are killing the O.G. forum with all the nonsensical purity tests.I have no problem with anyone's hunting methods as long as they are legal. Don't like the laws? Work on changing them instead of demonizing your fellow hunters. People pay taxes, buy licences and tags, follow the game laws, and then get treated like lepers, just because they don't follow "your rules". News flash, what might be tradition where you live, might be frowned on where i live. It is turkey hunting, not a religion. What is "Old School" anyways? Shooting them off the roost with a flintlock is hard core old school, is anyone advocating that? Shooting autoloading shotguns with depleted uranium ammo with red dots is old school? Or is old school just someone's personal perception on how things ought to be? It seems we have less and less new members joining O.G., and staying here, every year. For the record, i hunt with just calls, seldom use a decoy, and occasionally enjoy sitting in a blind on a rainy day on my back 40 when i'm not hunting public land. All i ask of my fellow turkey hunters is to be safe and follow the law, and be respectful of others. :icon_thumright:
Expecting everything to be done by law is evil. There should be no law on every facet of the sport. You accomplish what needs doing, like making dekes shameful, by leading by example and setting people straight. We absolutely should tell a hunter the bird he killed with a pop up blind and dekes doesn't count same as we shame anyone who ground sluices a covey of bobwhites. We do these things socially by culture and tradition, not by calling a government agent to force them at gunpoint.
Respect is earned. Fanning up a youtube earns nothing but short-lived notoriety among literal and figurative adolescents.
Quote from: howl on June 03, 2021, 07:38:28 PM
Quote from: the Ward on June 02, 2021, 09:55:25 AM
No offence to anyone, but we are killing the O.G. forum with all the nonsensical purity tests.I have no problem with anyone's hunting methods as long as they are legal. Don't like the laws? Work on changing them instead of demonizing your fellow hunters. People pay taxes, buy licences and tags, follow the game laws, and then get treated like lepers, just because they don't follow "your rules". News flash, what might be tradition where you live, might be frowned on where i live. It is turkey hunting, not a religion. What is "Old School" anyways? Shooting them off the roost with a flintlock is hard core old school, is anyone advocating that? Shooting autoloading shotguns with depleted uranium ammo with red dots is old school? Or is old school just someone's personal perception on how things ought to be? It seems we have less and less new members joining O.G., and staying here, every year. For the record, i hunt with just calls, seldom use a decoy, and occasionally enjoy sitting in a blind on a rainy day on my back 40 when i'm not hunting public land. All i ask of my fellow turkey hunters is to be safe and follow the law, and be respectful of others. :icon_thumright:
Expecting everything to be done by law is evil. There should be no law on every facet of the sport. You accomplish what needs doing, like making dekes shameful, by leading by example and setting people straight. We absolutely should tell a hunter the bird he killed with a pop up blind and dekes doesn't count same as we shame anyone who ground sluices a covey of bobwhites. We do these things socially by culture and tradition, not by calling a government agent to force them at gunpoint.
Respect is earned. Fanning up a youtube earns nothing but short-lived notoriety among literal and figurative adolescents.
I have a hard time telling if people are being serious or not on here. So, are you being serious?
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I don't care how you hunt. I do have an opinion on it as does everybody else. I will voice my opinion when I see fit. Purity test killing OG. How is voicing your opinion considered a purity test. For every person sharing thier views against decoys there are the same number If not more sharing views for them. The reader has the option to listen to whoever they like. They both are opinions and should be welcomed whether you like them or not. Ever heard of freedom of speech?
I hunt these birds in a certain way and I'm not afraid to let people know. If it hurts your feelings that I don't respect the way you hunt so be it. Not everybody gets a trophy in my world. In my opinion these birds are to be called to the point where the animal may be taken. No visual aids, no blinds just you and your calls trying to get a gobbler to go against what is inherently in his genes. For me doing it in any other way cheapens the experience. You may have a different opinion on the matter and that's Ok, just don't tell me I need to like it.
Quote from: Gooserbat on May 31, 2021, 02:40:15 PM
You sir just made my point. It's about your way being the right way.
Gonna have to call you out on a disingenuous post to start with. You set up an assumed precept that no criticism can be leveled at methods that can be reasonably argued unsafe, with too much on kill vs fair chase, and so on, pick one. Where your premise truly falls short is that you fail to account how a lot of this you deem should be accepted without question is cause for making us as a group appear in a poor way to non hunters and far too self serving in "anything goes." Do we truly rely on govt agencies and laws applied to be good sportsmen or do we instill ethical sportsmanship among ourselves and in that view, your post and the premise you put forth fails miserably. We live in a society that no longer wants to put in the work, efforts to achieve a honorable goal and would just soon phone it in with any means necessary shortcut to satisfy a demand for instant gratification. In that the old school traditionalists prove out a time honored tradition worthy of the long view.
Quote from: mookyj on June 03, 2021, 10:49:23 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on May 31, 2021, 02:40:15 PM
You sir just made my point. It's about your way being the right way.
Gonna have to call you out on a disingenuous post to start with. You set up an assumed precept that no criticism can be leveled at methods that can be reasonably argued unsafe, with too much on kill vs fair chase, and so on, pick one. Where your premise truly falls short is that you fail to account how a lot of this you deem should be accepted without question is cause for making us as a group appear in a poor way to non hunters and far too self serving in "anything goes." Do we truly rely on govt agencies and laws applied to be good sportsmen or do we instill ethical sportsmanship among ourselves and in that view, your post and the premise you put forth fails miserably. We live in a society that no longer wants to put in the work, efforts to achieve a honorable goal and would just soon phone it in with any means necessary shortcut to satisfy a demand for instant gratification. In that the old school traditionalists prove out a time honored tradition worthy of the long view.
Actually I never called any method unsafe. That is your perception. I will agree that under certain circumstances some methods are unsafe. As far as "fair chase" I don't adhere to the concept. It's a term I feel is thrown around by an elitist crowd who at the least sneer at those who don't do it their way. Fanning, Indians were doing it before the white guy showed up. Calling, Zane Gray the early 1900s outdoor writer, Novelist and Conservationist said it was unsportsmanlike to call a turkey during the breeding season. I believe in minding my own business, I also enjoy though provoking dialogue. I also enjoy the challenge of calling turkeys and as stated way back 5 pages ago that I have used about every method mentioned,
I would rather look down the gun barrel and shoot a tom that I have called to 25 yards than any other way. I feel proud and accomplished when I do.
That doesn't discredit me as a hunter if I use a decoy, which I have only killed 2-3 over simply because I don't like packing them around. Neither does it make me a anything else if I ambush a call shy bird or fan a henned up Tom. It only means I used the tools in my bag to kill a turkey. You as a hunter have the option and the right to put your personal tools in your bag but don't discredit someone who uses different tools.
If you read my response in context, fair chase was used only as a broad term and that was intentional as such. "minding ones own business" is not an end all be all and skirts the responsibility of us as practitioners of our sport to promote it in the best light. You are in fact labeling those that criticizes poor practices and poor behaviors all in the quest to promote killing rather than hunting. It plays into the hands of those that would just soon abolish hunting all together. In the essence of this you speak of not labeling others all the while it is what you are doing against those wishing to maintain the integrity of a time honored tradition. I ask that you not read this as spoken in a harsh tone. It is not my intention.
One of the great flaws of the Internet is: there is no way to discern intent or inflection. Literally read text is often mistaken as intent. we should all take a lot of levity in making assumptions about what someone is actually trying to say. I am certain I have said things that offended people when it was never my intent and vice/versa. This forum is about sharing thoughts and discussion and I try to never take anything personal, unless it is an obvious personal attack, and yes I have had a couple of those. OG does a pretty good job of weeding out the true trouble makers. I think everyone here has a passion for prospering Wild turkeys and turkey hunting, we just have differing opinions. I could most likely share a day of turkey hunting with 98% of you and enjoy myself. Sometimes our text needs a little more explanation and I don't think our discussions are endangering our sport much. Heck the anti-hunters are too caught up in their own self glorifying mission of social Justice and they have other platforms at the time. A quote of someones post from a hunter's forum will carry very little clout with the general non-hunting public. I for one am in post season chill mode....
Sure I'll post some opinions and get pretty involved in these discussions, but hey I can't hunt so I talk about it
Quote from: mookyj on June 04, 2021, 07:06:51 AM
If you read my response in context, fair chase was used only as a broad term and that was intentional as such. "minding ones own business" is not an end all be all and skirts the responsibility of us as practitioners of our sport to promote it in the best light. You are in fact labeling those that criticizes poor practices and poor behaviors all in the quest to promote killing rather than hunting. It plays into the hands of those that would just soon abolish hunting all together. In the essence of this you speak of not labeling others all the while it is what you are doing against those wishing to maintain the integrity of a time honored tradition. I ask that you not read this as spoken in a harsh tone. It is not my intention.
The issue with the whole debate, for me anyway, is who decides what is a poor hunting practice and why is it considered poor? Where is it written? Is it etched in a monument or on a tablet somewhere? Some book an old, traditional turkey hunter wrote? Is there a list somewhere that I can read outlining virtuous hunting tactics? I guess for me I have an issue with who decides what's right and wrong about how one chooses to turkey hunt.
Once again, the game laws are designed to limit how many animals are harvested and how they are harvested. These are laws, which gives them authority. I'm cool with authority. I follow the letter of the law. There are some legal hunting tactics that I don't care for personally. There are tactics I use, like decoys, that many on OG don't care for, and that's perfectly fine. I have an issue with someone imposing their hunting belief system on others and labeling those that don't follow that system as killers or less-than-adequate hunters, or lazy. What makes it worse is that most doing the criticizing have never used the non-traditional tactics they so despise. So all they know is based on videos, social media, hearsay or perception. Non-traditional practices may help someone kill a turkey in a high percentage of situations, but they are in no way a guarantee of success. I say again, the only way you know this is by using non-traditional tactics to better judge their effectiveness. Making judgments without actual knowledge falls squarely in the arena of not knowing what you are talking about.
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Seen a couple posts on previous page that prove my point about "purity" Got a question for them. New guy joins Old Gobbler because he wants to start turkey hunting. Comes here because this forum is the best place for turkey hunting info. He posts a question about getting a decoy and how to use it. Gets dogpiled by a the usual suspects. He leaves and goes elsewhere for info. How is that helping this site, or turkey hunting in general? I keep hearing " I don't care how others hunt" but then they can't restrain themselves from posting how others are wrong, and they have committed a mortal sin. A safety or legal issue? Sure, speak up. Don't like the topic? You don't have to post in it. Simple.
Interesting discussion, and a lot of points and opinions about what is couture, or not, in this thing we do.
Simply stated from my own perspective, I don't care how you go about killing your gobblers,...again, as long as it is deemed legal where you hunt. What I do care about is that you start out understanding how your hunting method, and your attitude about killing turkeys, impacts the resource. (The subject of "what's legal where you hunt" is a matter for another discussion).
We have spoken about declining turkey populations ad nauseum on this forum for years. News Flash: there reaches a point in that decline where we have to recognize that we should not be killing every single turkey we can just because thirty years ago there were enough turkeys around that we could kill several of them each year! Regardless of how one hunts, each of us should take that fact into consideration in terms of not how you hunt, but how many turkeys you take out of a struggling population.
Personally, I will take the guy that kills one gobbler using a fan,...and then stops hunting because he understands that the turkey population where he hunts cannot sustain itself if he kills two, three, or four more,...over the "great caller" that goes ahead and kills several more without any recognition of the fact that, perhaps, he should not be doing that for the good of the resource. (Granted, the guy that uses a fan or male turkey decoy that just keeps pulling the trigger because gobblers keep coming is a different story altogether)
"Great" turkey hunters start from the groundwork of understanding the limitations of the resource and adjusting their hunting attitudes around that. Doing anything less than that, regardless of how good you think you are at this or what methods you use, just makes you a detriment to the resource, and the rest of us that hunt it.
Quote from: mookyj on June 04, 2021, 07:06:51 AM
If you read my response in context, fair chase was used only as a broad term and that was intentional as such. "minding ones own business" is not an end all be all and skirts the responsibility of us as practitioners of our sport to promote it in the best light. You are in fact labeling those that criticizes poor practices and poor behaviors all in the quest to promote killing rather than hunting. It plays into the hands of those that would just soon abolish hunting all together. In the essence of this you speak of not labeling others all the while it is what you are doing against those wishing to maintain the integrity of a time honored tradition. I ask that you not read this as spoken in a harsh tone. It is not my intention.
First killing is the end result of hunting and second I don't take your tone as harsh.
Different views are fine, devouring one another isn't. That's the entire point of this thread.
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 04, 2021, 09:05:52 AM
Interesting discussion, and a lot of points and opinions about what is couture, or not, in this thing we do.
Simply stated from my own perspective, I don't care how you go about killing your gobblers,...again, as long as it is deemed legal where you hunt. What I do care about is that you start out understanding how your hunting method, and your attitude about killing turkeys, impacts the resource. (The subject of "what's legal where you hunt" is a matter for another discussion).
We have spoken about declining turkey populations ad nauseum on this forum for years. News Flash: there reaches a point in that decline where we have to recognize that we should not be killing every single turkey we can just because thirty years ago there were enough turkeys around that we could kill several of them each year! Regardless of how one hunts, each of us should take that fact into consideration in terms of not how you hunt, but how many turkeys you take out of a struggling population.
Personally, I will take the guy that kills one gobbler using a fan,...and then stops hunting because he understands that the turkey population where he hunts cannot sustain itself if he kills two, three, or four more,...over the "great caller" that goes ahead and kills several more without any recognition of the fact that, perhaps, he should not be doing that for the good of the resource. (Granted, the guy that uses a fan or male turkey decoy that just keeps pulling the trigger because gobblers keep coming is a different story altogether)
"Great" turkey hunters start from the groundwork of understanding the limitations of the resource and adjusting their hunting attitudes around that. Doing anything less than that, regardless of how good you think you are at this or what methods you use, just makes you a detriment to the resource, and the rest of us that hunt it.
I agree 100 percent. I personally hunted 5 states, and killed 6 birds this year. The two I killed here in Oklahoma were shot 150 miles apart.
This is an interesting conversation. It sounds a lot like some of the conversations regarding golf. I personally wouldn't care if decoys and game cameras were outlawed, not that I am advocating that. Full scale baiting is legal in TX and hunting outside of 100 yds of bait is legal in other states. As far as I know chufa and other food plots which is essentially baiting is legal everywhere. Hunting near cattle and where waste grain is present in "normal" agriculture practices is legal. Digital camoflauge is legal. Thermacell is legal. Seatbacks are legal. Scopes, red dots, etc are legal. 3 1/2" 12 gauge shells with TSS, Heavyshot, etc are legal. Airline travel to other states to hunt is legal. A search of the Internet for hunting areas is legal. OnX and GPS make fear of getting lost much less of a problem.
There are a ton of things that have evolved that make it much easier to kill a turkey. The interaction with a gobbler is to me what makes it exciting. Some of my best hunts have been the ones that the gobbler won. I didn't fill my last tag in SC this year as I got obsessed with a bad bird. He won this year. Good for him. I spent 7 days after him. I hope he makes it to next Spring!
I don't know what the answer is regarding turkey hunting ethics and the law as they are not necessarily one and the same to me, but I do know as hunters we need to stick together. Tactfully express your views to others if they don't hunt as you choose to hunt.
It's not a black and white deal. Henry Davis, the author of The American Wild Turkey, written in the 40's looked with disdain upon those who hunted turkeys in the Spring---said it was too easy. Yet, he killed a lot of turkeys when there were not many present and used a rifle.
We need to educate the younger hunters it's more about the entire experience than the actual kill although I like to kill gobblers and travel far and wide mostly on public land to do my share of hunting and yes killing.
We all need to think before speaking, express our point of view without showing disdain and stay united.
I agree with both of you, Gooserbat and Gobblenut. My example is our family properties. Owned by cousins, in-laws and myself. I have a huge influence if not out right control on turkey hunting on these properties. I do not regulate any method of hunting, but I do regulate the kill. I set a number before season and when it's hit I pull out and tell all the landowners it's enough. They know I have done this for years and the flock is stable, so they agree and let me make the call with maybe an exception for a grandchild. For almost 50 years we have had a stable flock with just year to year variations. In low brood years I may call it at just a bird or two. The entire group of properties is almost 1200 acres with most of it continuous and there's a neighbor with 600 more who regulates harvest. I allow 1/3 of estimated mature gobblers to be harvested a year and then it's done. I have guys begging me to let them in, but I don't do it. It is a set of 4-5 guys that we know will honor the rules. It works, as we have some of the very best turkey hunting around me.
I might add. it is a registered tree farm with a sustainable timber plan and managed woods. Plenty of natural food and fields mixed in. My cousin won national tree Farm of the year once for his conservation plan. It's a pretty good example of what can be done in my book and we're pretty proud of it. Yes, we've even had the NWTF come in and look at it. One of their biologist has done some timber/ habitat improvement.
And we'll have your a$$ arrested if you sneak in. We live on it and are on it every day
Quote from: the Ward on June 04, 2021, 09:00:30 AM
Seen a couple posts on previous page that prove my point about "purity" Got a question for them. New guy joins Old Gobbler because he wants to start turkey hunting. Comes here because this forum is the best place for turkey hunting info. He posts a question about getting a decoy and how to use it. Gets dogpiled by a the usual suspects. He leaves and goes elsewhere for info. How is that helping this site, or turkey hunting in general? I keep hearing " I don't care how others hunt" but then they can't restrain themselves from posting how others are wrong, and they have committed a mortal sin. A safety or legal issue? Sure, speak up. Don't like the topic? You don't have to post in it. Simple.
He can go pet some puppies or something if my opinion of using decoys effects him that much.
Quote from: Paulmyr on June 04, 2021, 12:38:01 PM
Quote from: the Ward on June 04, 2021, 09:00:30 AM
Seen a couple posts on previous page that prove my point about "purity" Got a question for them. New guy joins Old Gobbler because he wants to start turkey hunting. Comes here because this forum is the best place for turkey hunting info. He posts a question about getting a decoy and how to use it. Gets dogpiled by a the usual suspects. He leaves and goes elsewhere for info. How is that helping this site, or turkey hunting in general? I keep hearing " I don't care how others hunt" but then they can't restrain themselves from posting how others are wrong, and they have committed a mortal sin. A safety or legal issue? Sure, speak up. Don't like the topic? You don't have to post in it. Simple.
Thank you for making my point for me. :z-dizzy:
He can go pet some puppies or something if my opinion of using decoys effects him that much.
And what point is that. That snowflakes determine what my opinion should be and whether or not I have a right to voice it?
All my puppies end up being hunting, or I guess now, killing dogs depending on someone's perception about how I use them. I have a Boykin Spaniel that I got to retrieve ducks. He's okay at that. They also have used Boykins to flush turkey flocks in the fall to aid a hunter/killer in calling the separated individuals. I don't use him for that though. Lately I think he'd make a good squirrel dog.
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Quote from: Paulmyr on June 04, 2021, 01:17:28 PM
And what point is that. That snowflakes determine what my opinion should be and whether or not I have a right to voice it?
Well i am not going to derail this thread further, but the "snowflakes" also have a right to post their opinions too, yes? I'm done with this nonsense, good day to you sir.
Quote from: the Ward on June 04, 2021, 01:53:54 PM
Quote from: Paulmyr on June 04, 2021, 01:17:28 PM
And what point is that. That snowflakes determine what my opinion should be and whether or not I have a right to voice it?
Well i am not going to derail this thread further, but the "snowflakes" also have a right to post their opinions too, yes? I'm done with this nonsense, good day to you sir.
Never said they didn't.
My puppy likes turtles.
"Legal" and "ethical" are not synonymous. While one thing may be deemed legal, that doesn't automatically mean it is also ethical, while another thing may be ethical, but not legal.
Ethics are how we collectively decide to behave in the field which in the sole best interest of the wild turkey population, not what leads to increased success punching tags.
We the hunters together decide what is ethical, and the state authorities decide what is legal.
here's my opinion. the onslaught of these type of threads have kept me off of here and that may continue in the future. it' getting old
so are the tough guy pricks that hide behind their online anonymity
Quote from: bigriverbum on June 04, 2021, 08:23:36 PM
here's my opinion. the onslaught of these type of threads have kept me off of here and that may continue in the future. it' getting old
so are the tough guy pricks that hide behind their online anonymity
Yeah. I really need to start ignoring this topic on here. I spend too much time typing my thoughts on the subject and my posts are repetitive and long-winded. The only thing it helps is to keep me distracted from the classifieds section...
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Quote from: guesswho on June 04, 2021, 05:12:41 PM
My puppy likes turtles.
Sea turtles or snapping turtles?
I saw a turtle on the road yesterday after we got done riding around.
I wouldn't go that far mel. I believe this forum is meant for discussion so discussion is good. They only thing that gets me is how fast people get offended and drag it sideways. In the old days it seemed like people were a little better at such things. And yes the tough guy mentality is a bit much. Just remember the rooster that crows the most is usually trying to convince himself as much as those around him.
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well I don't care what anyone says I can fart loud enough to make a turkey gobble....the real talent is not sharting :funnyturkey:
Quote from: eggshell on June 06, 2021, 11:15:19 AM
well I don't care what anyone says I can fart loud enough to make a turkey gobble....the real talent is not sharting :funnyturkey:
YouTube material right there!
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Quote from: Happy on June 06, 2021, 11:02:09 AM
I wouldn't go that far mel. I believe this forum is meant for discussion so discussion is good. They only thing that gets me is how fast people get offended and drag it sideways. In the old days it seemed like people were a little better at such things. And yes the tough guy mentality is a bit much. Just remember the rooster that crows the most is usually trying to convince himself as much as those around him.
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I'm really just talking about me personally. I have stated my opinion in many threads like this one. It's just my opinion really. It's not that I think I'm right it's just how I see things from my perspective. It takes me a long time to express myself and I think about everything I type in. Then I go back and read it and edit it if I think something I said isn't clear, but I also correct my grammar and fix misspelled words. It really doesn't bother me to see poor grammar and misspelled words in posts from others, just my posts. So it's a time investment for me that could be spent doing something else. It's not that I don't think the discussion is important, it's just that I've said the same stuff so many times that I feel my voice has been heard and I need to shut up. I take things the wrong way sometimes and get aggravated like anyone else. Some things that aggravate me are things I needed to see. Some things I read on here change my way of thinking. But if I post enough in these discussions you folks have heard me voice my perspective and I need to move on. Also it gets old espousing the same viewpoint in so many similar threads.
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Quote from: Here turkey turkey turkey on June 06, 2021, 10:50:17 AM
Quote from: guesswho on June 04, 2021, 05:12:41 PM
My puppy likes turtles.
Sea turtles or snapping turtles?
I saw a turtle on the road yesterday after we got done riding around.
Bet it wouldn't care much for snapping turtles .
Quote from: dg7mm08 on June 06, 2021, 02:27:12 PM
Quote from: Here turkey turkey turkey on June 06, 2021, 10:50:17 AM
Quote from: guesswho on June 04, 2021, 05:12:41 PM
My puppy likes turtles.
Sea turtles or snapping turtles?
I saw a turtle on the road yesterday after we got done riding around.
Bet it wouldn't care much for snapping turtles .
Ha, I agree. :character0029: :character0029:
She prefers little box turtles. The big one are to fast.
Quote from: guesswho on June 06, 2021, 04:03:59 PM
She prefers little box turtles. The big one are to fast.
Heck! I like little box turtles!
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Quote from: guesswho on June 06, 2021, 04:03:59 PM
She prefers little box turtles. The big one are to fast.
:o :o :o
;D
I do not know my way is the best way or the worst way, I hunt out of a blind because it is the way I am forced to hunt at this time, though I am having a few surgeries over the next year in part to try to get back to hunting on the ground and not in a blind. Let me say I hate crossbows not because of the implement itself, (though I do not view it as archery) it is because every single person I have personally met has bragged how they can take shots with a crossbow on deer at 65-125 yards, most claim 100 or more. That is bad for us archers, we get blamed for it.
Now when I first started hunting turkey everybody I know told me I was nuts, they were all lifetime deer hunters and thought that turkey were a waste of time. My only introduction to turkey hunting was some of the old Primos videos. I knew no one that did it in person so I did what they did, I got me some decoys and went out and found a tree to sit against and called like crazy. Then I had my car accident, I lost 17 years of hunting because of some meathead not paying attention to what was going on in front of him. The Spring after my accident I tried to hunt, I had 3 turkey within a foot of me while I was in an old Ameristep Outhouse blind (I could not longer sit still because of pain so started to use the blind) I had one pass on one side of me it's wing touching my blind, the same thing on the other side of me including the wing touching my blind and the third I could hear his wing against the backpack I had sitting behind my blind. I thought I would get my first turkey there, I had one stop picture perfect and stare at me for almost a minute but I could not get the front end of my gun up because of my back injury, it put me in a very deep depression, I did not think I would ever hunt effectively again, I got rid of all my hunting videos because they hurt to much to watch because at that time I could no longer do the things I loved. Thank God my doctor finally found some meds that helped me and that I found out about this website while watching a NWTF calling contest on Facebook, you guys helped me a lot with getting back to what I loved and I got my first turkey with advise I had gotten here.
So what does all that babbling have to do with anything? I will back anybody that is doing things in a safe and ethical manor, offer any advise I can and do whatever I can to help a person to hunt any way they want so long as it is done with a love for the game, not a kill at all cost attitude, in a way that is not a detriment to the future of the wild turkey and does not put the hunter or others in the field in a position that somebody is likely to get injured.
I lost it for 17 years, I lost the best years of my turkey learning years, I am behind the ball in experience and knowledge because of it and I realize it shows. Because of that reason I want us to start to work together, stop all the infighting, work against the anti's the way we work against ourselves here and in other places and stop working against ourselves in here and out there, if we do not we are going to lose it because of ourselves and I don't want to see any of your lose the ability to hunt, weather it be because of an injury or because we were at each others throats and did not see them coming to sink a dagger in our back and take it away from us.
I do indeed think there should be better laws or ethics to protect the wild turkey, I would love to see no shots over 40 yards regardless of your load, (I have seen to many videos of turkey shot at longer ranges taking longer to die or end up injured) I would like to see reaping ended not only for the safety reasons but because all the videos I have seen of it show it truly does compromise a wild turkeys defenses, I am not completely against lowering the limits to try help the species recover, I would like to see no shooting hens, in my mind to kill a hen is to kill the future of the species.
My hunting method is not better than yours, yours is not better than mine, they are just different methods to the same end, lets work together to help one another even if we may not agree.
Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on June 06, 2021, 05:29:37 PM
Quote from: guesswho on June 06, 2021, 04:03:59 PM
She prefers little box turtles. The big one are to fast.
Heck! I like little box turtles!
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Here ya' go... (just a small sampling of the horde that I have in my back yard.... :D
...My apologies up front for derailing the topic further...
(https://i.imgur.com/6eEH4Sul.jpg)