I've read many posts recently on this and other forums bashing the methods others use to bag their birds, social media hunters in general, some in particular, and the list goes on and on.
Now that the heyday of the wild turkey seems to be over with declining populations throughout much of the country, the elitists are quick to criticize anyone who doesn't play the game according to their rules. No birds where there were plenty five years ago? Must be SOMEBODY'S fault. Right?
If not the decoy toting blind sitting bunch, then surely it's the fan wavers, or perhaps even the use of technology itself: longer range ammo, optical sights, GPS, satellite imagery. Why I remember back in the day.......
My Dad was a simple man with an eighth grade education who grew up dirt poor, married the town doctor's daughter and spent most of his life working as a clerk in a drugstore. He also had more friends, from all walks of life than anyone else I've ever known.
He was also addicted to quail hunting. The heyday of the Bobwhite quail here in Missouri would probably be considered by experts as the 1930's, 40's and 50's. Small farms, lots of row cropping, hedge fence rows, in other words, perfect habitat, and my Dad, born in 1914, was a young man through the best of it.
For many years quail season started on November 10. If Dad ever missed an opening day, I never knew it. He always managed to get off work and often hunted at least a portion of almost every day of the season.
An excellent wing shot, he would sometimes buy shells for his Browning Sweet 16 by the case and back when such things were less frowned upon, would often fill the 10 bird limits of his hunting companions, often physicians or other people from the city who couldn't hit the side of a barn, as well as his own.
My Dad's uncle was a bachelor nicknamed "Prude". I never knew why. About 140 pounds soaking wet, Prude resided in the ramshackle old house on the hardscrabble family farm. He raised foxhounds and was what would now be categorized as a hillbilly before the moniker was popular.
Anyway, I was as addicted to bird hunting as my Dad and I remember a time when I was maybe 12 or 13 when Prude told us about "pot shooting" a covey of quail he spotted while driving through the sprout patch along the road to his house with his old single shot shotgun, killing 4 or 5 as I recall.
I was appalled. My Dad would never shoot a bird not in flight, and I felt the same. I expounded at length to Dad, telling him how unsportsmanlike it was of Prude to shoot birds on the ground like that. I've never forgotten his reply.
He told me that Prude didn't hunt for sport, just wanted a mess of quail to eat and saw the opportunity and took it. He then explained to me that Prude would maybe kill a dozen birds a year, if he was lucky, while he and I were killing hundreds, so, really, who was hurting the population more?
Those in glass houses.......
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Yes the game has certainly changed since when I first hunted the big birds in the 1970s. It is what it is.
Puts things in perspective.
Man do I miss Quail hunting. And Pheasant. And Rabbit.
If MDC don't pull their heads out probably going to miss turkey hunting too.
Guess we better get the bear and wild hog hunting gear and tactics figured out.
If we are not careful, we may not have a gun to hunt with in the future. Just look at the New ATF director they are trying to nominate .. agree it's all changing the way we know of hunting .. same with fishing..
Great post, NP.
Perspective without judgement or emotion most often dissects issues to your conclusion: those who live in glass houses......
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Quote from: Greg Massey on May 29, 2021, 11:37:42 AM
If we are not careful, we may not have a gun to hunt with in the future. Just look at the New ATF director they are trying to nominate .. agree it's all changing the way we know of hunting .. same with fishing..
Yep, we may be throwing rocks at them before long if the demonicrats have their way.
Well said. How true.
Exactly,
Most people who bash others haven't ever tried it or at least with an open mind. It's like feeding someone really good deer meat who "doesn't like Deer" it's perspective and as long as they keep it within the limits then let it be.
There is a reason for the decline; was when our ancestors nearly exterminated the wild turkey and is today. The main reason for today's decline, other than the new methods of "hunting", is the vast numbers hunting a limited recource.
Predator and habitat loss are behind low turkey numbers IMHO. Killing a few more Tom's by using non traditional techniques has little to no impact. Hawks, Fox, opossums, raccoons, coyotes are rampant, way more then ever before.
I'm doing my part for turkeys. Didn't go last year because of the SCAMdemic and killed 1 this year in the first hour of my only hunt.
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Quote from: Crghss on May 29, 2021, 07:22:06 PM
Predator and habitat loss are behind low turkey numbers IMHO. Killing a few more Tom's by using non traditional techniques has little to no impact. Hawks, Fox, opossums, raccoons, coyotes are rampant, way more then ever before.
This is one of the biggest problems right here.
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Man and his destruction of habitat and un checked population growth will always be wildlife's number 1 problem.
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Some good history and writing, but I did struggle to realize a true point of emphasis. I guess what your saying is we all have our transgressions, so we should not have an opinion or criticism of others. Sometimes the fact we have sinned helps us realize what was/is wrong and silence seldom resolves any issue.
I personally think it's a great American asset to have freedom of speech. It's also up to the masses to decide what is wrong, through expressed opinions to our wildlife agencies and legislatures. Now I am not for rude, intrusive, degrading or threatening rants, but simply expressing one's displeasure of a technique is not something I consider as wrong. We are free to disagree and the law sets the standards of what we may or may not do. In summation, I would guess 90% of sportspeople want to protect and prosper the resource and the other 10% just want glory or don't give a dam either way.
I know it gets heated in here sometimes and people's passion sometimes leads to some uncivil comments, but I believe it's just people being passionate about something they love. Back in those glory days they commercially hunted with punt guns, killing whole flocks of ducks and commercial drives where they killed everything in range. I do believe that someone speaking up and saying it was wrong helped change the extermination of game.
My point is. I may not agree with a poster and vice versa, but we should all civilly express our opinions. I for one have changed my mind on some issues with good civil arguments. I harbor no ill feeling towards anyone on this forum for expressing an opinion. Actually I would hate to see it stop. Just keep it civil
Sorry Neil ... while your story is true enough and those of us growing up with rural and farming relatives can relate ...
Prude and a few of the old timers I knew of were simply opportunistic ... they did not hunt out state ... heck I bet you most never hunted more than a dozen or two miles from their house. Sure they ate what they killed, but these guys killed far less than most of the "sportsman" back then or today.
Its human nature to not own up to one's problems , and cast blame on others everyone does it
Habitat destruction is a primary culprit of game loss not only for turkeys but for waterfowl to something as simple as butterflies
Factoid ....there is a bazillion more turkey hunters today as there were 40 years ago , they are better equipped ,better informed and THEY KILL MORE TURKEYS ..who am I to point fingers ? Just like the rest of you I have modern equipment thats way more effective , I drive a modern vehicle that can reliably transport me clear across the country , right to within walking distance of huntable populations of game ..JUST LIKE THE REST OF US
I will identify CYBERSCOUTING as a huge problem in the future for turkey hunters , its ravaged fishing and waterfowling in the last decade and the lazy have become addicted to it like overage lazy kids that still live at home are addicted to free handouts ...there is entire Facebook pages where idiots grab up quota hunt permits , then ask 1)where there are even at 2) where the birds are at 3) and demand this information.....like it is owed to them . Then cough up predictable excuses like "live to far " "work" over 50% of them don't even show up and the permits go to waist ....its DESTROYED FLORIDA WATERFOWL HUNTING ...and many other hunters and fishers from other regions have suffered the same , do not give handouts to lazy cyberscouters , its like feeding bears
Here in Florida we have a rapidly disapearing habitat , most privately owned properties if not already sold to land development...will do so in the next 20 years , all that is left is slivers of WMA properties, and even the quota hunt properties are diminishing in quality as the they have been over pressured for decades ..
I believe most game agencies are making harvest regulations to appease complainers and not making policy changes based on biological data a example ...check station data (some are un manned )shows we harvest less than 750 wild turkeys in the wma areas of Florida...the real figure for south and central true osceolds is probably less than 300 on wildlife management areas!!!!this is public property, probably all that will be left in 20nyears time
What has the state of Florida done in the last 20 years..nothing ...ive been begging them to do things for decades and the only time they do something is when someone gets shot by a rifle , slug, buckshot durring spring season .....I can't even get them to put on a "no jakes" beard rule like they have in some other states
Mark my words by the time the idiots in the fwc realize how bad of shape they are regarding Osceola turkeys and habitat, some tree hugger will launch a lawsuit in court to designate the Osceola a ENDANGERED SPECIES like the Florida Panther and Key Deer , use the harvest data to back up thier claims and slam shut the door on Florida turkey hunting for good !! I will be there to tell you I TOLD YOU SO ! Alaska kills more Dall Rams than Florida kills turkeys off wmas....florida needs to step up and manage its program asap
Off soap box
Reading on here is depressing at times. Sometimes I feel hesitant to introduce my 7 year old to turkey hunting because I feel there will be no season in the future. I'd hate for him to have the passion we all have and then the sport goes away for good.
Eggshell, I agree with you. My intent wasn't to limit criticism of actions we feel are detrimental to the wild turkey and not in line with accepted moral norms or wildlife conservation practices. I am just suggesting that we need to be willing to look at ourselves first.
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Quote from: Old Gobbler on May 30, 2021, 07:34:13 AM
Its human nature to not own up to one's problems , and cast blame on others everyone does it
Habitat destruction is a primary culprit of game loss not only for turkeys but for waterfowl to something as simple as butterflies
Factoid ....there is a bazillion more turkey hunters today as there were 40 years ago , they are better equipped ,better informed and THEY KILL MORE TURKEYS ..who am I to point fingers ? Just like the rest of you I have modern equipment thats way more effective , I drive a modern vehicle that can reliably transport me clear across the country , right to within walking distance of huntable populations of game ..JUST LIKE THE REST OF US
I will identify CYBERSCOUTING as a huge problem in the future for turkey hunters , its ravaged fishing and waterfowling in the last decade and the lazy have become addicted to it like overage lazy kids that still live at home are addicted to free handouts ...there is entire Facebook pages where idiots grab up quota hunt permits , then ask 1)where there are even at 2) where the birds are at 3) and demand this information.....like it is owed to them . Then cough up predictable excuses like "live to far " "work" over 50% of them don't even show up and the permits go to waist ....its DESTROYED FLORIDA WATERFOWL HUNTING ...and many other hunters and fishers from other regions have suffered the same , do not give handouts to lazy cyberscouters , its like feeding bears
Here in Florida we have a rapidly disapearing habitat , most privately owned properties if not already sold to land development...will do so in the next 20 years , all that is left is slivers of WMA properties, and even the quota hunt properties are diminishing in quality as the they have been over pressured for decades ..
I believe most game agencies are making harvest regulations to appease complainers and not making policy changes based on biological data a example ...check station data (some are un manned )shows we harvest less than 750 wild turkeys in the wma areas of Florida...the real figure for south and central true osceolds is probably less than 300 on wildlife management areas!!!!this is public property, probably all that will be left in 20nyears time
What has the state of Florida done in the last 20 years..nothing ...ive been begging them to do things for decades and the only time they do something is when someone gets shot by a rifle , slug, buckshot durring spring season .....I can't even get them to put on a "no jakes" beard rule like they have in some other states
Mark my words by the time the idiots in the fwc realize how bad of shape they are regarding Osceola turkeys and habitat, some tree hugger will launch a lawsuit in court to designate the Osceola a ENDANGERED SPECIES like the Florida Panther and Key Deer , use the harvest data to back up thier claims and slam shut the door on Florida turkey hunting for good !! I will be there to tell you I TOLD YOU SO ! Alaska kills more Dall Rams than Florida kills turkeys off wmas....florida needs to step up and manage its program asap
Off soap box
Florida also needs to step up and protect the hunting opportunity for its residents. Non-resident applications for turkey quotas have skyrocketed in recent years thanks to all the YouTube videos and social media glamorization. Pretty crazy when you go on a Florida draw hunt now and see almost as many non-residents as residents!
If I was a FL resident, I'd be vouching for a cap on non-resident quota permits. And this is coming from a non-resident whose been routinely hunting Osceolas on public lands for over a decade! The resource for the people of FLORIDA is more important than the non-resident license $$.
Quote from: Neill_Prater on May 30, 2021, 08:57:12 AM
Eggshell, I agree with you. My intent wasn't to limit criticism of actions we feel are detrimental to the wild turkey and not in line with accepted moral norms or wildlife conservation practices. I am just suggesting that we need to be willing to look at ourselves first.
Paint me guilty of a few transgressions for sure. As i grew up on a farm in the 60s I can tell you bag limits were only a suggestion and applied only to city folks....we were raised, "if you want it then kill it and stock up the freezer". Not all the old time values were virtuous. As an adult and with a long career with our state wildlife agency as a Fisheries manager I pretty much held the line on all wildlife laws and enforced my share. I done all I could to the best of my ability to prosper the resources within my care. This younger generation of biologist I am not so sure of. I doubt hunting will ever extirpate a species , but I do believe some tactics are detrimental to the resource and can stress a population or just plain take the fun out of it. Face it very few in this modern area are subsistence hunting