It seems like it's almost inarguable that the TSS wave has caused an increase in birds missed in close range. While yes it is a more ethical kill and can get you those extra 10-15 yards it seems story after story is of people missing birds what is now "too close" for tss. I handload myself now and it took me roughly 3-4 months of testing 20 gauge shells to get one that opened up in tight and still held its own out to 55 yards. Before I had started making my own shells I would commonly (once a bird had gotten in closer than 20 yards) aim for the middle of the body and "body punch it" extremely effective and I can say that I had completely quit missing birds in tight when just a year or two before I missed a good many birds within 20 yards. I wasn't sure if anyone else had been doing this but if still running a really tight pattern it may be something to think about if you have recently been missing birds in tight as I was when I was running the tightest of setups.
does that ruin the breast meat?
Not unless within 10 yards then you may sacrifice a breast besides that I haven't lost significant meat over it due to the extremely tight pattern
Where is your point of aim when you make this shot?
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Do you intentionally miss the breast or do you center punch the breast or just hit wherever?
:popcorn:
:welcomeOG:
Quote from: Southerngobbler on April 25, 2021, 06:45:07 PM
Do you intentionally miss the breast or do you center punch the breast or just hit wherever?
Aim for the wing patch or if facing you the bottom end of the beard
I suppose it works, but I can't wrap my head around shooting a turkey in the body. Too many years of head shots only being pounded in my brain.
Just from what I've seen with body shots at close range they tend to mangle the meat.
If that's truly your take, and since we're going there, it would make way more sense at close range to shoot him in his thighs and take out his engines. Turkey can't fly off without first running and jumping and he ain't running if you just broke his legs. Then go step on his headwhile the poor bastard flops around.
Part of turkey hunting is missing turkeys, it's our part to do our best job at reducing that without sacrificing respect for the turkey or negligently destroying good meat. I'll keep shooting them in the head for the quickest, cleanest kill possible, and one that renders the most turkey nuggets.
I don't. I'd rather let a bird go. In fact that's what I do. I let them walk away and shoot when they get further out. Sometimes they just plain get away. Then I get to hunt them again. Turkey hunting is much more fun when you don't feel like you have to kill one.
That's what I practice. I preach that the closer it is, the lower you aim down to body shots at ten yards or closer. Around ten is where I've seen it work with people I called for. Twenty seems a bit far, but like I typed I just don't shoot them like that. So, I don't have the experience.
I have killed my share of turkeys and missed 2, one was misjudged distance and the other too much brush I think?
If you can not hit a turkey in the head with a shotgun then you have issues! I did a lot of wing shooting prior to ever trying to kill a turkey, shooting the bird is as easy as any part of the hunt gets!
I head shot one at 3 steps, cleaned the top of his head off, eyeball up completely gone!
Is this a real thread?
Quote from: JMalin on April 25, 2021, 07:45:48 PM
Is this a real thread?
Yes. Yes it is. And, it's also justifiable. Maybe not in the eyes of all,but...
Missing a bird in tight can happen in so many ways. Maybe the pattern isn't open. Maybe you didn't get settled on the gun. Maybe you got too into the moment that you failed to truly make sure the bread was where it needed to be. Regardless the reasoning, shooting one in the body at close range isn't the end of the world. It's a decision that the individual hunter had to make. Haven't I done it? Yes. Will I do it again? Likely. At 20 yards? Nope. They were closer than that and fear of not getting that golf ball pattern where it needed to be was what made my decision.
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TSS has not caused me to miss any birds up close. I've noticed no difference within 15 yards. Lead was always extremely tight at that range also. I've seen no evidence that an intentional body shot is necessary.
Apparently there are some who are missing a lot of turkeys to be worried about this. Sure I have missed a few but definitely FEW...not chronic. Shooting turkeys at an average of 24 yards (I keep journals) and shooting factory loads, apparently I am not suffering from this 'missing is the gun/shot/choke/etc' fault...
Why dont we just throw all this expensive crap out and go back to #4 lead. I have never missed between 5 and 40 yds with a 54 yard mistake thrown in there that the bird also fell like a stone. All for a 10dollor box of shells.
I like turkey breast and won't body shoot one myself... if the gun is that tight close open up your choke/ change loads.... don't know that I've ever seen this topic come up in my career on here?!?
Never had an issue, and of course I've missed a few but this is my answer!
Circle of Death!
MK M GOBL
Quote from: GobbleGitr on April 25, 2021, 08:20:19 PM
Apparently there are some who are missing a lot of turkeys to be worried about this. Sure I have missed a few but definitely FEW...not chronic. Shooting turkeys at an average of 24 yards (I keep journals) and shooting factory loads, apparently I am not suffering from this 'missing is the gun/shot/choke/etc' fault...
original post is a weird humble brag. he such a great hunter that he's brought multiple birds within 20 yards in just a year or two but such a moron that he's body shooting them with tss? has to be a troll.
or he's a democrat. creating problems with their solutions(the handloads). if you're regularly calling them within 20 yards why not just shoot them with lead 5's?..........or a stick over the head? anything to not waste meat
I was about to get the popcorn for this one. How can anyone dis a rifle hunter for shooting one at 200 and not do the same for any dipwad who would even consider shooting on in the body at 10 w a shotgun? I'll simply end w this, the whole "pattern too tight" don't fly w any real hunter. If you can't kill one at 3yds, why should you be concerned about one at 30????
Body shots? Naw, I shoot TSS and do not have any issues hitting from the neck up. I think a really tight pattern is good thing and allows a precision shot to the neck and head. Sounds to me that someone is afraid of the turkey getting away. Has the individual practiiced up close shots during the off season? I bet not. Having said all that if a Turkey hunter feels that is the best way to kill his turkey by all means have at it.
This isn't a new issue. It's been around since the Hevishot and ever tighter chokes came along.
A friend of mine had this problem, so he shot his birds at 30+ yards. If they got inside of 30, he shot them at the base of the neck.
Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.
Seriously if you're contemplating doing this: #1 you're inexperienced and let him get too close #2 you lack skill set to place the sight on target at 3 like 30 or you're not confident or experienced in what your setup will do at these ranges. Just imagine what a mess this 8-10 shot tss will make holding center body on a turkey.
Quote from: bigriverbum on April 25, 2021, 09:16:30 PM
Quote from: GobbleGitr on April 25, 2021, 08:20:19 PM
Apparently there are some who are missing a lot of turkeys to be worried about this. Sure I have missed a few but definitely FEW...not chronic. Shooting turkeys at an average of 24 yards (I keep journals) and shooting factory loads, apparently I am not suffering from this 'missing is the gun/shot/choke/etc' fault...
original post is a weird humble brag. he such a great hunter that he's brought multiple birds within 20 yards in just a year or two but such a moron that he's body shooting them with tss? has to be a troll.
or he's a democrat. creating problems with their solutions(the handloads). if you're regularly calling them within 20 yards why not just shoot them with lead 5's?..........or a stick over the head? anything to not waste meat
Definitely wasn't a humble brag. I mostly hunt the Deep South swamps and pine plantations (shout out Rayonier for not burning their properties. Liability issues.) so we hunt in the thickest woods in the nation IMO. That being said I can go from thick pines to a clear cut hunt in the same day. So the reasoning for TSS is sometimes I do need those extra 10 yards and it is the cleanest kill IMO. But also in these woods down here a bird can round a bush and you haven't even seen him until he's on top of you. Hence the body shot. Anytime I travel to anywhere besides the Deep South the body shot has never been needed.
Body shooting a gobbler where I'm from is frowned upon ...
?.
Regardless of the circumstances, I will never intentionally body-shoot a gobbler. However, there have been circumstances where I purposefully held a bit lower on the neck than I usually would due to distance or sight-picture concerns. Having said that, if the head/neck area of the turkey is not in that sight-picture, I am not pulling the trigger.
Quote from: GobbleNut on April 26, 2021, 08:25:08 AM
Regardless of the circumstances, I will never intentionally body-shoot a gobbler. However, there have been circumstances where I purposefully held a bit lower on the neck than I usually would due to distance or sight-picture concerns. Having said that, if the head/neck area of the turkey is not in that sight-picture, I am not pulling the trigger.
Yep
They get that close and I just snatch him up by his legs and turn it to a knife fight. Most times they tend to beat me.
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Quote from: mikejd on April 25, 2021, 08:21:34 PM
Why dont we just throw all this expensive crap out and go back to #4 lead. I have never missed between 5 and 40 yds with a 54 yard mistake thrown in there that the bird also fell like a stone. All for a 10dollor box of shells.
If I could get some Old black #4's I would!
Body shots are good for bowhunting with a sharp broadhead.
Last year my son shot one at 20 yards square in the breast when he was facing us in full strut. Although I had advised against shooting a bird in full strut he was excited and shot low. He was shooting 3.5" TSS #8s. I thought he had killed the bird due to the bird being knocked back and flipped backwards in a cloud of feathers so I put my gun down. Bird immediately got back up and took off running and we both opened up on him. Long story short is that the bird got away, likely died, and caused me to lose sleep for a couple of days. I looked and looked for that bird. My son learned a valuable lesson at the expense of the bird. After that experience I would never recommend a body shot.
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Quote from: HookedonHooks on April 25, 2021, 07:08:03 PM
If that's truly your take, and since we're going there, it would make way more sense at close range to shoot him in his thighs and take out his engines. Turkey can't fly off without first running and jumping and he ain't running if you just broke his legs. Then go step on his headwhile the poor bastard flops around.
Part of turkey hunting is missing turkeys, it's our part to do our best job at reducing that without sacrificing respect for the turkey or negligently destroying good meat. I'll keep shooting them in the head for the quickest, cleanest kill possible, and one that renders the most turkey nuggets.
100% agreed!
I can't believe this thread is real. Intentionally body shooting a turkey with a tight choked gun and TSS is going to blow a big hole right through the best meat on the bird. That is just disrespectful to an animal that deserves better. No one should do that on purpose. It's no different than shooting a big game animal in a ham from the rear with a rifle because it was the only shot available. It's just not ethical.
THE WAY I LOOK AT IT IS IF ITS TO TIGHT UP CLOSE GET A CHOKE THATS MORE OPEN . U HAVE TO GIVE UP SOMETHING U CANT HAVE A CHOKE THATS GOING TO BE THE SAME AT 10 YARDS AND THE SAME AY 40 ITS GOING TO HAPPEN U HAVE TO GIVE UP SOMETHING.....
Close to the top of the list of my favorite things about turkey hunting is the nuggets. I would never body shoot one.
I know my guns, and where they are going to hit if I do my part from 5 yards all the way to beyond distances I'd ever shoot at one. I'll just do my part and hold on that head/neck.
I've missed a bird at 3-4 yards before. Got a second shot off at about 25 as he ran off and killed him. Even after missing the first shot, I wouldn't dream of body shooting. To each his own, I suppose.
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Quote from: TrackeySauresRex on April 26, 2021, 09:52:54 AM
Quote from: mikejd on April 25, 2021, 08:21:34 PM
Why dont we just throw all this expensive crap out and go back to #4 lead. I have never missed between 5 and 40 yds with a 54 yard mistake thrown in there that the bird also fell like a stone. All for a 10dollor box of shells.
If I could get some Old black #4's I would!
I bought a box of 3.5'' #4 long beards the other day. I think that's the first box of them I have ever seen.
Quote from: mikejd on April 25, 2021, 08:21:34 PM
Why dont we just throw all this expensive crap out and go back to #4 lead. I have never missed between 5 and 40 yds with a 54 yard mistake thrown in there that the bird also fell like a stone. All for a 10dollor box of shells.
This is my sentiments EXACTLY. I have ZERO desire to think about TSS especially with a 12.
:anim_25:
Quote from: bbcoach on April 26, 2021, 03:30:00 PM
Quote from: mikejd on April 25, 2021, 08:21:34 PM
Why dont we just throw all this expensive crap out and go back to #4 lead. I have never missed between 5 and 40 yds with a 54 yard mistake thrown in there that the bird also fell like a stone. All for a 10dollor box of shells.
This is my sentiments EXACTLY. I have ZERO desire to think about TSS especially with a 12.
Using TSS or any other shot takes some common sense. Clearly common sense is in short supply. Used correctly TSS is a great improvement but there is absolutly nothing wrong with other choices. You need to know your gun and where it is shooting then practice. Its unsettling to realize a lot of people do not pattern, don't have a clue as to where their gun is hitting or practice. In fact from many posts its clear that many individuals only pick up their gun a couple days prior to opening day frantically search for ammo then hit the woods. Shortly after they start screaming on this and other forums that their gun is not shooting correctly and asking for quick advice for a solution.
Body shooting, other than with a bow, is poor sportsmanship. What more is there to say? Read the posts its not hard to tell the experienced knowlegable hunters.
I don't even understand why tss would cause a close range miss. My gun shoots a volleyball size pattern at 20 yards. That's not tight. Most people who shoot tss are not shooting 400+/10" but patterns similar to mine. If you are missing up close it's more likely a poi vs poa problem.
Never body punched one however I have changed my POA to where the lower neck meets the body. Seemed to work fine for me.
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on April 26, 2021, 04:50:56 PM
Never body punched one however I have changed my POA to where the lower neck meets the body. Seemed to work fine for me.
Right where the waddles meet the feathers..
Quote from: Gooserbat on April 26, 2021, 04:39:40 PM
I don't even understand why tss would cause a close range miss. My gun shoots a volleyball size pattern at 20 yards. That's not tight. Most people who shoot tss are not shooting 400+/10" but patterns similar to mine. If you are missing up close it's more likely a poi vs poa problem.
Under ten yards is like a slug. Hitting a moving target is pretty hard when it's the size of a turkey head. People are shooting patterns at 40 yards but if you shoot tss in a real tight choke your chances of missing a bird up close goes up the closer it is. A well sighted in red dot would help but like I said, hitting a moving turkey with something the size of a baseball is tough
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To me, TSS with the higher pellet count can be more forgiving than Winchester Longbeards at close range.
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Quote from: TrackeySauresRex on April 26, 2021, 05:29:51 PM
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on April 26, 2021, 04:50:56 PM
Never body punched one however I have changed my POA to where the lower neck meets the body. Seemed to work fine for me.
Right where the waddles meet the feathers..
Right on! :z-winnersmiley:
After reading most of the replies , I feel I'm the only one who hasn't killed 500 turkeys..
I lived out west probably 25 years ago and shot my share of Merriams, it was easy picking back then. The local guys that showed me the ropes always used some sort of #5 or 6 high brass followed by several #1 buck shots. If they didn't kill their gobbler with a shot to the head on the first shot they would body shoot it with the buck shot as it was trying to get away. Everything was done at much closer ranges back then. The followed up buck shot method worked pretty good and didn't mess up too much meat. It wasn't legal back then or now but that's how they did it. They were all good with a mouth call cuz they hunted elk as well.
Another thing is they always stressed not to shoot two birds on one sit, even though it was legal they wouldn't take a double. I still to this day have never shot a double, as I agreed not to way back then, where I hunt now its not even legal anyways.
i like to eat them with out the threat of breaking a tooth.
(https://i.imgur.com/Pwd81te.jpg)
I just tested out a new choke with TSS. Pattern was too tight at 25 yards. I would actually need too brace myself (shoot prone or against a tree) for the shot. No free hand shots. So I went back to my original choke which opened up more.
I'd never body shoot a bird. If I miss, I miss.
My brother shot one in the body this year. I think it was unintentional. I ended up throwing both breast in the trash. They were full of pellets and I didn't feel it was worth the risk of cracking a tooth. I tried for a while to get them out but it was a losing battle.
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Quote from: wchadw on April 26, 2021, 07:46:32 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on April 26, 2021, 04:39:40 PM
I don't even understand why tss would cause a close range miss. My gun shoots a volleyball size pattern at 20 yards. That's not tight. Most people who shoot tss are not shooting 400+/10" but patterns similar to mine. If you are missing up close it's more likely a poi vs poa problem.
Under ten yards is like a slug. Hitting a moving target is pretty hard when it's the size of a turkey head. People are shooting patterns at 40 yards but if you shoot tss in a real tight choke your chances of missing a bird up close goes up the closer it is. A well sighted in red dot would help but like I said, hitting a moving turkey with something the size of a baseball is tough
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There is a better solution than body shooting a moving target. Don't shoot!!! Until they are standing still, head up, and neck stretched out. A cluck or 2 and they stop, and put their head up to search for where the clucks came from.
If they are heading out let them go. You owe it to the animal your trying to kill to take ethical high percentage shots. A running turkey is neither unless you've already hit him once.
Quote from: saltysenior on April 26, 2021, 08:44:26 PM
After reading most of the replies , I feel I'm the only one who hasn't killed 500 turkeys..
Wait , I thought that a minimum of 500 was a requirement to join this forum ? :fud: :fud:
Quote from: Paulmyr on April 26, 2021, 09:53:33 PM
Quote from: wchadw on April 26, 2021, 07:46:32 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on April 26, 2021, 04:39:40 PM
I don't even understand why tss would cause a close range miss. My gun shoots a volleyball size pattern at 20 yards. That's not tight. Most people who shoot tss are not shooting 400+/10" but patterns similar to mine. If you are missing up close it's more likely a poi vs poa problem.
Under ten yards is like a slug. Hitting a moving target is pretty hard when it's the size of a turkey head. People are shooting patterns at 40 yards but if you shoot tss in a real tight choke your chances of missing a bird up close goes up the closer it is. A well sighted in red dot would help but like I said, hitting a moving turkey with something the size of a baseball is tough
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There is a better solution than body shooting a moving target. Don't shoot!!! Until they are standing still, head up, and neck stretched out. A cluck or 2 and they stop, and put their head up to search for where the clucks came from.
If they are heading out let them go. You owe it to the animal your trying to kill to take ethical high percentage shots. A running turkey is neither unless you've already hit him once.
I'm not saying shoot a bird in the body... I'm saying if you can't hit it in the head if they are close with what you are shooting you need a more open choke or don't shoot
Or
Buy an over under.
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Quote from: warrent423 on April 26, 2021, 08:06:38 PM
Anyone intentionally shooting a Gobbler at close distance in the body with a shotgun has Sh#t for brains
X 2 !
I have shot birds at extremely close range. It simply would not occur to me to body shoot a bird intentionally if they are in range. Either I miss, or take his head off.
TSS, Hevi-Shot, and other tungsten loads allow you to shoot a bit more open choke. Missing a bird at close range is the shooter and not the shell or choke, granted there is a smaller margin for error. But, closer targets are more easy to hit than further targets.
I have always let birds come closer if they are coming, but in recent years, there is a point where they are close enough that I shoot, even if they are still coming closer... No need to let them come closer than 15 yards...
With a shotgun, the actual shooting of the bird, is the easiest part of the deal.. Finding birds, calling them, getting them into range, etc., is the difficult part.
Quote from: wchadw on April 26, 2021, 07:46:32 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on April 26, 2021, 04:39:40 PM
I don't even understand why tss would cause a close range miss. My gun shoots a volleyball size pattern at 20 yards. That's not tight. Most people who shoot tss are not shooting 400+/10" but patterns similar to mine. If you are missing up close it's more likely a poi vs poa problem.
Under ten yards is like a slug. Hitting a moving target is pretty hard when it's the size of a turkey head. People are shooting patterns at 40 yards but if you shoot tss in a real tight choke your chances of missing a bird up close goes up the closer it is. A well sighted in red dot would help but like I said, hitting a moving turkey with something the size of a baseball is tough
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All I can say is that in the last 7 years (before tss became a thing) and setting up 5 guns, developing loads for another 4, shooting paper at ranges from up close to 60 yards, and killing around 40 turkeys at ranges from 10 steps to 73 yards, I have learned a thing or two about tss. First thing is you have to try or get lucky to have a slug size pattern up close. Second is if you can't hit up close it's probably a poa/poi problem. Next I've never saw any gun shoot under 6" at ten yards. And if the pattern is to tight use a factory full.
Quote from: Gooserbat on April 27, 2021, 08:16:01 AM
Quote from: wchadw on April 26, 2021, 07:46:32 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on April 26, 2021, 04:39:40 PM
I don't even understand why tss would cause a close range miss. My gun shoots a volleyball size pattern at 20 yards. That's not tight. Most people who shoot tss are not shooting 400+/10" but patterns similar to mine. If you are missing up close it's more likely a poi vs poa problem.
Under ten yards is like a slug. Hitting a moving target is pretty hard when it's the size of a turkey head. People are shooting patterns at 40 yards but if you shoot tss in a real tight choke your chances of missing a bird up close goes up the closer it is. A well sighted in red dot would help but like I said, hitting a moving turkey with something the size of a baseball is tough
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All I can say is that in the last 7 years (before tss became a thing) and setting up 5 guns, developing loads for another 4, shooting paper at ranges from up close to 60 yards, and killing around 40 turkeys at ranges from 10 steps to 73 yards, I have learned a thing or two about tss. First thing is you have to try or get lucky to have a slug size pattern up close. Second is if you can't hit up close it's probably a poa/poi problem. Next I've never saw any gun shoot under 6" at ten yards. And if the pattern is to tight use a factory full.
My point is that this guy needs to know his setup. Pattern at 10, 20, 30 40 yards and know what his gun will do. If he can't hit a bird in the head at a distance, he doesn't need to shoot at it.
In my opinion it's worse ethically to shoot at a bird over 40 or 50 yards. Chances of crippling the bird go way up. I believe that while TSS loads are great, you still should make sure it's an acceptable range to shoot.
I see all these guys trying to get max counts in a 10 inch ring at 40 yards which is great but they need to know what that pattern looks like up close and make sure their poi/poa is on
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I guess I'm confused as to why you can hit the body but not the head.
:popcorn: I`m staying out of this one
I literally thought this was about calling them in so close you could go full Jackie Chan on one....my was I surprised.
Those stating how much meat a body shot messes up, have you ever shot one in the body at close range?
Quote from: Gut_Pile on April 27, 2021, 02:04:33 PM
Those stating how much meat a body shot messes up, have you ever shot one in the body at close range?
You know I have. Tenderized, yes. Destroyed? By a bunch of tiny little #9s ?
Quote from: guesswho on April 27, 2021, 10:46:27 AM
I guess I'm confused as to why you can hit the body but not the head.
Kill the body and the head will die.
Ive missed more than I want to admit .. BUT every time it was me getting overly excited . These days Im shooting a 20 ga indian creek tss #9.. its flippin tight at 20. I just shot one last week at 15 yards. its wasn't a pretty head . Body shooting? no way . Be calm Grass Hopper. Squeeze. Do not jerk. Breath. Enjoy your un-mangled breast .
Quote from: Gut_Pile on April 27, 2021, 02:04:33 PM
Those stating how much meat a body shot messes up, have you ever shot one in the body at close range?
I haven't/wouldn't do it but seen the aftermath after someone else did first hand. The shot was at maybe 12 yards. One wing was pretty much blown off and that entire side of the breast was mangled. The other side had damage and pellets in it. I guess some of it was salvageable. I mean it was a 12 ga at close range after all
Let's just end this misery and say nobody is ever gonna body shoot unless it's an accident and pretend this discussion never happened
I'll SAY it. NOT A FAN!!!! Too much carnage at close range and you definitely don't want to do it at longer ranges. One place to shoot IMO, head and neck area only. If you can't shoot there, then LET HIM WALK!!!! RESPECT the ANIMAL! This is turkey hunting not turkey blasting!
Quote from: trkehunr93 on April 27, 2021, 02:04:00 PM
I literally thought this was about calling them in so close you could go full Jackie Chan on one....my was I surprised.
Me Hulk..... Me Hulk smash little turkey!!
Quote from: wchadw on April 27, 2021, 10:37:48 AM
Quote from: Gooserbat on April 27, 2021, 08:16:01 AM
Quote from: wchadw on April 26, 2021, 07:46:32 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on April 26, 2021, 04:39:40 PM
I don't even understand why tss would cause a close range miss. My gun shoots a volleyball size pattern at 20 yards. That's not tight. Most people who shoot tss are not shooting 400+/10" but patterns similar to mine. If you are missing up close it's more likely a poi vs poa problem.
Under ten yards is like a slug. Hitting a moving target is pretty hard when it's the size of a turkey head. People are shooting patterns at 40 yards but if you shoot tss in a real tight choke your chances of missing a bird up close goes up the closer it is. A well sighted in red dot would help but like I said, hitting a moving turkey with something the size of a baseball is tough
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All I can say is that in the last 7 years (before tss became a thing) and setting up 5 guns, developing loads for another 4, shooting paper at ranges from up close to 60 yards, and killing around 40 turkeys at ranges from 10 steps to 73 yards, I have learned a thing or two about tss. First thing is you have to try or get lucky to have a slug size pattern up close. Second is if you can't hit up close it's probably a poa/poi problem. Next I've never saw any gun shoot under 6" at ten yards. And if the pattern is to tight use a factory full.
My point is that this guy needs to know his setup. Pattern at 10, 20, 30 40 yards and know what his gun will do. If he can't hit a bird in the head at a distance, he doesn't need to shoot at it.
In my opinion it's worse ethically to shoot at a bird over 40 or 50 yards. Chances of crippling the bird go way up. I believe that while TSS loads are great, you still should make sure it's an acceptable range to shoot.
I see all these guys trying to get max counts in a 10 inch ring at 40 yards which is great but they need to know what that pattern looks like up close and make sure their poi/poa is on
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Agreed.
Quote from: Spurs Up on April 27, 2021, 06:12:52 PM
Quote from: guesswho on April 27, 2021, 10:46:27 AM
I guess I'm confused as to why you can hit the body but not the head.
Kill the body and the head will die.
That's not how that one goes, it's cut off the head and the body will die. ????
A good majority of the people on this thread need to read The Tenth Legion. If youve already read it, you need to go read it again.
Quote from: Pluffmud on April 28, 2021, 09:15:08 AM
A good majority of the people on this thread need to read The Tenth Legion. If youve already read it, you need to go read it again.
Also read "The Season" and see how D'artagnon of the 3 musketeers made out with Col. Tom
read Charles Jordan who recommended head shots with #6 shot
but also recommended #3 shot in the left barrel
Henry Davis had no problem with shooting turkeys with buckshot on deer drives
Read Capt. Bogardus's book, he was a Sport hunter, market hunter and World class competition shotgun competitor, He settled on #1 lead in both barrels for his style of turkey hunting
You do realize, that you do not HAVE TO SHOOT the turkey... if you have called him to the gun and he is too close to shoot with a super tight patter (for fear of missing) you can just let him walk off. At this point, you have WON and not WASTED a valuable and tasty bird.
Quote from: Sasha and Abby on April 28, 2021, 12:27:04 PM
You do realize, that you do not HAVE TO SHOOT the turkey... if you have called him to the gun and he is too close to shoot with a super tight patter (for fear of missing) you can just let him walk off. At this point, you have WON and not WASTED a valuable and tasty bird.
Seriously?!?! And risk not being able to post a pic of a dead gobbler on face books / tic toc etc ?!?!?
:turkey2:
Quote from: Howie g on April 28, 2021, 12:59:11 PM
Quote from: Sasha and Abby on April 28, 2021, 12:27:04 PM
You do realize, that you do not HAVE TO SHOOT the turkey... if you have called him to the gun and he is too close to shoot with a super tight patter (for fear of missing) you can just let him walk off. At this point, you have WON and not WASTED a valuable and tasty bird.
Seriously?!?! And risk not being able to post a pic of a dead gobbler on face books / tic toc etc ?!?!?
:turkey2:
I'm with you. I honestly think if a lot of these guys hunting couldn't post their bird to brag on it before he's done death flapping they wouldn't even hunt! Too many "ego trippers" out there. Ain't social media great LOL!!
PS Regarding "body punching" a turkey I've never done so. I enjoy the meat too much and don't want to crack a tooth on a BB!!
Not no but hell no.
I use tss and will still always aim for the head
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Quote from: bbcoach on April 28, 2021, 06:52:04 AM
I'll SAY it. NOT A FAN!!!! Too much carnage at close range and you definitely don't want to do it at longer ranges. One place to shoot IMO, head and neck area only. If you can't shoot there, then LET HIM WALK!!!! RESPECT the ANIMAL! This is turkey hunting not turkey blasting!
Right on the money BBCoach!
I am of the opinion that killing the turkey may be the ultimate goal... But it is not the reason behind the hunt... My reason is the ability to communicate with a wild animal and the overall chess game.
I would equate "body punching" a turkey to shooting one with a rifle. In my opinion, its the same...
Quote from: Gobble Nole on April 29, 2021, 03:24:56 PM
I am of the opinion that killing the turkey may be the ultimate goal... But it is not the reason behind the hunt... My reason is the ability to communicate with a wild animal and the overall chess game.
I would equate "body punching" a turkey to shooting one with a rifle. In my opinion, its the same...
Because shooting one within 20 yards is the equivalent of cracking one at 200 yards with a 308. Makes sense! When they're within 20 yards I would argue the chess game has been won. But to each their own.
I believe the point to be made in this discussion should center around the consumption of the bird after it is killed. Yes, you can kill a gobbler at ten yards by shooting it in the body. Yes, you can kill a gobbler at 200 yards by shooting it with a rifle, and that kill is likely to be through the body with an expandable bullet that very likely causes much damage to the bird. (I know this because I have personally seen turkeys shot through the body at long range with high-powered rifles,...what was left were two wings, two legs, and a totally inedible body)
In both cases, the likelihood that a considerable amount of the edible portion of that bird is going to be ruined is much greater than a head/neck shot with a shotgun. Part of killing turkeys (or any game, for that matter) is understanding the ethical responsibility to make sure that animal is fit for consumption,...and is consumed,... after it is killed. They go hand in hand. If you hunt and don't understand that ethical responsibility, then to put it bluntly, you should not be hunting! Period!
Quote from: GobbleNut on April 30, 2021, 08:46:18 AM
I believe the point to be made in this discussion should center around the consumption of the bird after it is killed. Yes, you can kill a gobbler at ten yards by shooting it in the body. Yes, you can kill a gobbler at 200 yards by shooting it with a rifle, and that kill is likely to be through the body with an expandable bullet that very likely causes much damage to the bird. (I know this because I have personally seen turkeys shot through the body at long range with high-powered rifles,...what was left were two wings, two legs, and a totally inedible body)
In both cases, the likelihood that a considerable amount of the edible portion of that bird is going to be ruined is much greater than a head/neck shot with a shotgun. Part of killing turkeys (or any game, for that matter) is understanding the ethical responsibility to make sure that animal is fit for consumption,...and is consumed,... after it is killed. They go hand in hand. If you hunt and don't understand that ethical responsibility, then to put it bluntly, you should not be hunting! Period!
This is the best reply yet!! For me the best part of the hunt is not the kill. Really its the combined experience of watching the sun rise, hearing the woods come alive , enjoying the beauty of Gods creation. Sometimes the kill is almost disappointing as it puts a sudden end to all that. Ive shot turkeys and thought to myself " I wish I would have watched a little longer " Then after all that .. being able to enjoy some good food with your wife, friends ,and family and tell the story just adds even more to the experience. If it was just about the kill I probly wouldn't hunt.
This is the best reply yet!! For me the best part of the hunt is not the kill. Really its the combined experience of watching the sun rise, hearing the woods come alive , enjoying the beauty of Gods creation. Sometimes the kill is almost disappointing as it puts a sudden end to all that. Ive shot turkeys and thought to myself " I wish I would have watched a little longer " Then after all that .. being able to enjoy some good food with your wife, friends ,and family and tell the story just adds even more to the experience. If it was just about the kill I probly wouldn't hunt.
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This is the best reply yet!! For me the best part of the hunt is not the kill. Really its the combined experience of watching the sun rise, hearing the woods come alive , enjoying the beauty of Gods creation. Sometimes the kill is almost disappointing as it puts a sudden end to all that. Ive shot turkeys and thought to myself " I wish I would have watched a little longer " Then after all that .. being able to enjoy some good food with your wife, friends ,and family and tell the story just adds even more to the experience. If it was just about the kill I probably wouldn't hunt.
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X2 Sturm!!! It is TOTALLY about THE HUNT! Every Aspect of that Hunt! Killing, Posting PICS and Bragging Rights don't even Play into this! Let's get out and chase these Majestic Creatures, match wits with them and if by chance you do kill a bird, it's a bonus. As I get older, I GET IT!!!
If this is not a joke it should be.....
Quote from: Gobble Nole on April 29, 2021, 03:24:56 PM
I am of the opinion that killing the turkey may be the ultimate goal... But it is not the reason behind the hunt... My reason is the ability to communicate with a wild animal and the overall chess game.
I would equate "body punching" a turkey to shooting one with a rifle. In my opinion, its the same...
i called 3 hens in today and it was ALMOST as satisfying as if they were toms. wind was howling as our high temp today is about 25 degrees above average.
set up in ravine and called a hen into 20 yards with a bird behind her. pretty sure it was a hen. she saw my single jake decoy and got spooky. walked up the mountain and sat on a knob for a bit and called to no response(didn't hear a gobble all day)
walked up the ridge to a field and as i'm about 10 yards from it and in a thick mess of cedars and buckthorn i hear a hen putting and acting frantic. i drop to my knees and start cutting at her. she come back within a minute. she proceeded to come within 10 feet of me. i'm sitting there in the open and cackling and cutting at her. she wanted a fight, just didn't see her victim.
she leaves, i set up on the field edge and call for a bit. hen pops her head up 5 yards away and sits in front of me for 5 minutes while i piss her off. one of these days i bring one in with a tom
Quote from: Hobbes on April 25, 2021, 08:08:24 PM
TSS has not caused me to miss any birds up close. I've noticed no difference within 15 yards. Lead was always extremely tight at that range also. I've seen no evidence that an intentional body shot is necessary.
To each his own but I'm in the same boat as you hobbles. The win supreme #4's I shot for the last 15 years or so pattern the same as the #9 tss at 10 yards. It's all the same in close for me. I love shooting them real close. It gets my heart pumping like crazy!
With this new TSS shot your grandpas 16ga single shot with a fixed full is a turkey slayer. I don't see the need for extra full chokes anymore or 3.5" magnum loads, scopes, lasers, and electronic calls OH MY!
I have been shooting TSS for 3 or 4 years now. In a Benelli M1 with a RR .650 and this year with a M2 with a Indian Creek .555. Both produce a super tight pattern. With that said I wouldnt shoot a body shot..if at all possible. I have missed a few,,,,but killed several with dramatic results,,,,birds that had gotten inside of 20.
After one today that is in same location of a missed 10 yard shot, last year,, has same routine that the bird has last year so I hope its the one I missed! Will let you know!!
I've missed many birds but I will still head shoot one even if it's 5 or 10 yards. Rather a clean kill or a clean miss than blow up the best part of the bird.
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30 years ago.... I shot a turkey in some green briars, I was 17-18 years old and dumb. Anyways, I hit him hard, but not hard enough. He flopped around and got through the briars and ran right to me and past me. I put one in the middle of his back at 20 yards or closer.
This was with the original, woodland camo 835 Kicker. I got him, he didn't run off and die not to be found. Good thing that junk held as many shells as it did, I think I shot 4 times. Running turkeys are hard to hit in the head at 5 yards!