I was thinking about a gun I've been fooling with recently and I've been disappointed with the 10" numbers. However, the entire payload for most of these patterns are completely even and contained within the 20". That got me thinking about what percentage the 10" circle is of the 20" surface area and it's right at 25%. Looked at my numbers and sure enough I'm getting right at 25% of the load in that area with good even patterning across the rest of the 20". So it would seem my disappointment is at the lack of a hotter core in the pattern.
Question: Do you prefer a hotter core or a perfectly even pattern, and why? Does that change if you're running optics versus a bead, or say if you're running a particular load (i.e. Long Beards versus something like TSS)?
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Even
Even pattern. Optic is what i prefer, for the closer shot and my eyes, they don't see so good anymore. I've also used my optic to make sure i'm picking out the long beard and not the jake in the heat of the battle.
Even for me, too. I am not a numbers counter and could care less about how many hits in the ten at forty. As long as that pattern is even and dense enough to consistently hit a gobblers skull and neck vertebrae with a handful of shot at up to forty or so yards, I am good.
Even, especially with out optics or sights.
First off, What is 25% of the load that in the 10"
We don't know your total load to really judge what your achieving
For instance, I shoot tss 9s in a 1-5/8 oz load
So 25#% would only be 145 pellets or so in the 10".
To me that is a terrible pattern as I could do a 250/250ish even pattern
Idc if it's even I sure don't want 145 in the 10" with 400 in the 10-20"
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Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 15, 2021, 12:59:25 PM
First off, What is 25% of the load that in the 10"
We don't know your total load to really judge what your achieving
For instance, I shoot tss 9s in a 1-5/8 oz load
So 25#% would only be 145 pellets or so in the 10".
To me that is a terrible pattern as I could do a 250/250ish even pattern
Idc if it's even I sure don't want 145 in the 10" with 400 in the 10-20"
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It doesn't matter the load. 25% of a load is 25% of a load. In the specific instance it's 2oz of Hevi 13 #7, a load of roughly 508 pellets with ~130ish in the 10" (equating to almost exactly 25%).
What you're describing as your preference, though, is a slightly hotter core. A perfectly fine preference to have hence the question.
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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 15, 2021, 01:12:03 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 15, 2021, 12:59:25 PM
First off, What is 25% of the load that in the 10"
We don't know your total load to really judge what your achieving
For instance, I shoot tss 9s in a 1-5/8 oz load
So 25#% would only be 145 pellets or so in the 10".
To me that is a terrible pattern as I could do a 250/250ish even pattern
Idc if it's even I sure don't want 145 in the 10" with 400 in the 10-20"
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It doesn't matter the load. 25% of a load is 25% of a load. In the specific instance it's 2oz of Hevi 13 #7, a load of roughly 508 pellets with ~130ish in the 10" (equating to almost exactly 25%).
What you're describing as your preference, though, is a slightly hotter core. A perfectly fine preference to have hence the question.
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Right, I wasn't arguing that % is different
There's loads out there that will be very weak for a hunting pattern at 25% in the 10" no matter how even
Without knowing the Shell I couldn't say if your obtaining a killing pattern.
You could've been shooting 20ga longbeards for all we knew, only getting about 70 pellets in the 10" which will lead to problems if taking 40 yard shots.
But, seeing now what your shooting. Yes it's def huntable and plenty enough. Personally I'd like it slightly hotter but that's tit for tat.
Also, on the optics part of the question I wouldn't change the pattern I'd like to achieve.
However since going to a red dot I don't think I'd ever go back unless I had to due to a malfunction.
The red dot allows a lot more room for error if your shooting off handed or at a hard angle making your bead alignment not quite right.
If that dot is on him that's where the pattern is hitting, period, the bead can be on him but not necessarily the pattern if you not lined up looking down the barrel correctly.
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I prefer an even spread for hunting applications. One jerky head movement from a skiddish old warrior could take his head right out of that 10 inch circle. I think alot of guys get hung up with tighter/farther/more pellets. I dont meant to say I dont admire your dedication to studying and refining what you send down range. In fact I dont mean this as a reaction to anything you said just an observation of many members of our community. I would say you have an excellent setup with enough spread to be effective at a variety of scenarios. We cant always get them to stand as still as paper targets or calm ourselves to hold as steady during the heat of the moment anyway and thats the fun of it for me.
I've never counted pellets in a circle, but I would rather the pattern be even
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I go for even also. I've never counted my 40yrd pattern for a 10" circle(never heard of it until joining here), but I always looked for a nice even distributed pattern that had around 10hits on a turkey head with no holes of escape.
The way I set up using the terrain and hunting in timber, I'm more concerned with the under 20 yd shots than I am the over 35yd shots so I use a factory F and 6s in my gun. I'm not sure I'd be able to hit anything with some of the choke constrictions I see. .640 & .650 seems like it would make some tiiigggghtttttt swarms. :)
Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 15, 2021, 01:12:03 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 15, 2021, 12:59:25 PM
First off, What is 25% of the load that in the 10"
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It doesn't matter the load. 25% of a load is 25% of a load. In the specific instance it's 2oz of Hevi 13 #7, a load of roughly 508 pellets with ~130ish in the 10" (equating to almost exactly 25%).
What you're describing as your preference, though, is a slightly hotter core. A perfectly fine preference to have hence the question.
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In that case I would work for a lot better 10" pattern like 200. But try to keep it even out to 20".
I use optics on all my turkey guns, red dots, or scopes. I strive for an Even pattern with no "holes". I like a real even pattern at 30/35 yards. That is my wheelhouse range. I think a "no holes" pattern is more important in turkey hunting. Just my thoughts and pattern experience. Thx
I like even. With today's shells it's easy to get 300+ and still have an even pattern. I have both of my guns putting 320/10-360/20 and it's purdeath at ranges beyond the magic 40 yards, however my patterns are not tennis ball small at 15-20 yards.
I like a hotter core but hot for me is 150-160. That prob puts me in the even crowd on this site. Have probably killed a pile with the edge of a pattern. Said it before here, someone needs to invent an oval shaped barrel that throws a 2' wide pattern that is 10" tall. Name it the same as my 870, the gobbler cleaver.
Quote from: THattaway on February 15, 2021, 04:11:26 PM
I like a hotter core but hot for me is 150-160. That prob puts me in the even crowd on this site. Have probably killed a pile with the edge of a pattern. Said it before here, someone needs to invent an oval shaped barrel that throws a 2' wide pattern that is 10" tall. Name it the same as my 870, the gobbler cleaver.
Like you, I think I tend to like a hotter core, but, yes, the definitions seem to be absolutely dependent on the individual. Gooserbat's comment above is a great example. His pattern strikes him as "even" even though 50% of the load is contained within 25% of the total pattern area. And I see what he's saying, or what I think he's saying—the 10" pattern is even and the distribution within the 10-20" is also even. But for me I would define that pattern as a "hot core." I guess my question came about for this exact reason which is how do we define a good pattern, and I'd say it's absolutely subjective. A pattern I'm not totally happy with—primarily because it lacks a core—some people praise because it's perfectly even over the total area. Both trains of thought seem perfectly valid to me. Both obviously kill turkeys.
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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 15, 2021, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: THattaway on February 15, 2021, 04:11:26 PM
I like a hotter core but hot for me is 150-160. That prob puts me in the even crowd on this site. Have probably killed a pile with the edge of a pattern. Said it before here, someone needs to invent an oval shaped barrel that throws a 2' wide pattern that is 10" tall. Name it the same as my 870, the gobbler cleaver.
Like you, I think I tend to like a hotter core, but, yes, the definitions seem to be absolutely dependent on the individual. Gooserbat's comment above is a great example. His pattern strikes him as "even" even though 50% of the load is contained within 25% of the total pattern area. And I see what he's saying, or what I think he's saying—the 10" pattern is even and the distribution within the 10-20" is also even. But for me I would define that pattern as a "hot core." I guess my question came about for this exact reason which is how do we define a good pattern, and I'd say it's absolutely subjective. A pattern I'm not totally happy with—primarily because it lacks a core—some people praise because it's perfectly even over the total area. Both trains of thought seem perfectly valid to me. Both obviously kill turkeys.
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It may be from older times when the shot loads weren't big enough for someone to want and even pattern across 20" circle. That's why the 10" was probably what was used mostly.
It's only possible now with 500 plus pellet count loads to have a huntable 10" and still even across the full 20"
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I personally prefer a nice even pattern with no holes. Does not matter what sights I am using.
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 15, 2021, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 15, 2021, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: THattaway on February 15, 2021, 04:11:26 PM
I like a hotter core but hot for me is 150-160. That prob puts me in the even crowd on this site. Have probably killed a pile with the edge of a pattern. Said it before here, someone needs to invent an oval shaped barrel that throws a 2' wide pattern that is 10" tall. Name it the same as my 870, the gobbler cleaver.
Like you, I think I tend to like a hotter core, but, yes, the definitions seem to be absolutely dependent on the individual. Gooserbat's comment above is a great example. His pattern strikes him as "even" even though 50% of the load is contained within 25% of the total pattern area. And I see what he's saying, or what I think he's saying—the 10" pattern is even and the distribution within the 10-20" is also even. But for me I would define that pattern as a "hot core." I guess my question came about for this exact reason which is how do we define a good pattern, and I'd say it's absolutely subjective. A pattern I'm not totally happy with—primarily because it lacks a core—some people praise because it's perfectly even over the total area. Both trains of thought seem perfectly valid to me. Both obviously kill turkeys.
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It may be from older times when the shot loads weren't big enough for someone to want and even pattern across 20" circle. That's why the 10" was probably what was used mostly.
It's only possible now with 500 plus pellet count loads to have a huntable 10" and still even across the full 20"
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I'd say you're absolutely right. If you went by the old 100 in a 10" rule you'd have to have 400 in the load to achieve perfectly even across 20". I still think I like the hotter core, and with the modern loads and numbers like what Gooserbat quoted above I'd say we've reached a place where a load with a "hot core" can still produce a forgiving pattern.
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Even forgiving pattern. Call um into 40 and under and don't worry about it
Even pattern with no holes for a hunting pattern
Even pattern is always better. I do a lot of patter/choke/load work for sport shooting and hunting. If people saw the holes in their patters get bigger exponentially as you get further back, we would have more ethical hunters. This is with all chokes and ammo. AA target ammo is a premium for Clays and if people saw the holes at 40 yards it would scare them. Be safe and God Bless, Al Baker
Prefer nice even pattern with no holes for hunting. It just doesn't take
300-400 pellets in a 10" circle to kill a turkey.
Shooting 870 supermag 3 1/2" #5 longbeards. At 40 yds I have a nice even pattern. Anything inside 35 it's hot. I had to add a red dot to compensate for that. Most of my birds are inside 30 or closer when I decide to shoot. I'm not going to adjust my shell or choke to open pattern just in case grandpa hangs up at 40.
Even for me, I like to know I've got plenty of shot to the left and to the right in case a bird moves as I squeeze the trigger.
I shot a .580 for the first few years from my 20ga, nice clean even patterns and lethal further than I would shoot. Found a good price on a .555 so I tried it. The close up pattern is not that much tighter so I went with it!
Quote from: trkehunr93 on February 16, 2021, 09:45:44 AM
Even for me, I like to know I've got plenty of shot to the left and to the right in case a bird moves as I squeeze the trigger.
Same here wiggle room.
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A gobblers head is constantly moving , twisting ,turning ,pecking ,preening ,and periscoping. A little wiggle room with a even pattern is good in most cases. Limit your range by calling him into range , then get him out of strut and his head up and alert before making a good ethical shot.The bird deserves nothing less.