This morning early -a gobbler was sounding off in my favorite area.
My hearing is challenged, but I moved closer to him.
(In this same area I bumped into a big gobbler 3 years ago-he was with a hen and took off flying. I did not shoot him
as my infield fly rule saved him. )
Today-After he gobbled 6 or 7 times, I caught movement in the oak tree 45 yards ahead of me. It was my old friend, as it turned out-as he had a hen with him.
He pitched to the ground, and started to come up in my direction, until his girl friend came up to him -then they both walked off into the woods.
This is the same gobbler, as he is 5-6 years old now and does not generally respond to any type of call.
I could see him clearly in his roost tree, and I was tempted-looking at his long beard while he half-strutted in the tree.
This is not the first time I have hunted and fooled with a wise turkey for a couple of years in a row- before finally getting him.
That is the challenge, but the possibility of wounding this bird under less-than-ideal conditions is anathema -not happening.
This makes it more interesting as he is now an old mossback "acquaintance". The NWTF have indicated that some gobblers might reach 10
years of age occasionally.
Probably will get alot of comments on this 1
I won't shoot 1 out of the tree
Just my 2 cents
Not all of them are callable but they are all killable. Setup around his roost tree or between the roost and where he tends to go when he leaves it. Don't call even once and shoot him on the ground when he works into range.
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Same gobbler 5 or 6 years?
Lol.
I will never shoot a gobbler off his limb. To me, it's like shooting a wood duck on the water. The whole idea about turkey hunting for me is fly down, coax/call enticing him in and taking a 30 yard shot resulting in a clean harvest. Sneaking in under him in the dark and taking a "daylight crack" at him on the limb pretty much takes all the "fair chase elements" off the table for me. This is my "rules of engagement" in the turkey woods.....
As many things are. Its personal choice. I wouldn't shoot one off the limb, but I also won't set up so that I can blast him as soon as his feet touch the ground. There is little difference between the two, in my opinion. I had an old gobbler years ago that gave me fits, I finally got in tight to his roost, and he flew down at 30 yards from me. I gave a few soft yelps, and he went on high alert and slowly walked off. If he had gobbled or gone into strut, I would have probably killed him, but he didn't, and he walked. In my opinion, he didn't deserve to go out that way, and I never killed him. I think as years go by, some of us become concerned with how we win just as much as if we win. That's not everyone, though. An old gobbler that has kept his fan attached for many years has my respect. If I am going to kill him, then it's going to be a result of my maneuvering and calling.
Good-looking and Platinum level member of the Elitist club
As Happy stated it's a personal choice. I've been hunting turkeys a lot longer than most on here and not near as long as some others. But I consider myself to have good ethics when it comes to the way I hunt. I own property in my home state and in a neighboring state. No I don't have money but I have worked my tail off my whole life and have been blessed beyond measures by the good Lord. I'm pretty picky on killing a tom on those places but I have hunted public lands my entire turkey hunting history and my season wouldn't be the same if I didn't kill one on public every year. But the way the majority of these new age turkey hunters are and the disrespect they have for other hunter has made me throw ethnics out the window more than once. One instance I roosted a bird one evening next morning in there at 4am. Now this was opening day. Not a soul there the evening before.This is not a parking lot, it on the side of a road middle of nowhere. 1st truck drives by a hour and a half after I have been there, goes a quarter and parks. 2nd truck pulls up to my truck backs up 100 yds and parks by this time it breaking day. Turkey starts gobbling. 3rd truck pulls up to my truck stops gets out heard a gobble, drives 100yds past my truck, they get out. Now by now I'm as close as I can get to the turkey. 3 different people are moving in every gobble. I haven't said a word, which I hardly ever hoot. But the closer they get the madder I get. One person is less than 100 yds now, it's daylight the turkey is strutting and gobbling 35yds from me on the first big limb in a giant white oak. I told myself I will kill him or nobody will. So you know how it ended they didn't kill him. I hate to shoot one like that but I refuse to be disrespected like that and then get it rubbed in my face. They got what they deserved. This same thing has happened a couple times. I'm sure some of you would have done it differently but I'm sure there are others that would have done the same thing if you where put in that situation.
Good points, B-OG;
I have found another hunting area this year, but the old area still has the most turkeys and I am a lifetime guest with family property rights.
It would be indeed a shame if the "modern turkey hunters" start acting like some deer hunters, or start acting like
night spot light deer "killers".
Since my first turkey brought back in the 1950s, I learned ethics from my father, who was a friend of Tom Kelly.
If it is done right, you feel that you earned that particular gobbler. The harder it is, the better in some cases.
Honorary Member--------------------Tenth Legion
I don't shoot them unless I at least call them across some sort of big barrier. A street, river, fence etc etc.
Did I win? ;)
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Quote from: Super Fox on March 29, 2024, 10:09:07 AM
This is the same gobbler, as he is 5-6 years old now and does not generally respond to any type of call.
Unless he has some really unusual identifying marks, I would be doubtful that this is the same bird.
A good roost tree is a good roost tree and will be used by numerous birds throughout many years. Feeding areas, hen breeding, and good roosting will often go to the birds that are at the top of the hierarchy... And that hierarchy is in constant fluctuation.
As to the OT... I think it would be pretty much universally argued on these forums, that shooting a bird out of the roost is unethical... Should be illegal.
Sneaking into a roost tree at dark, and having the wherewithal to hide, and hold still enough, and to be in the right location to harvest the bird when he flies down is more of a personal choice of ethics (there is undoubtedly some woodsmanship skills involved in this process)... Me... If I did not have a hand in calling him in, I feel like I robbed myself of that pleasure...
Several years ago I called some hens off the roost to me... And a nice tom flew into the tree I was sitting under (no idea if he flew off the roost or from the ground). It just felt wrong to shoot him... Had he flown to the ground in range, I would have killed him before his second foot hit the ground though... I would argue that it is more difficult to call a bird into the tree you are sitting under, than calling him in on the ground, but it simply did not "feel" right to me... He ended up flying to the ground just out of gun range and the hens followed him. I do not think that shooting that bird would have been unethical, and it came down to a personal choice for "me" to make...
We all have to make personal choices in the field... If you are able to feel joy and pride in the harvest, it is probably the right choice for you... If there is guilt or dissatisfaction in the means or methods you use, then it was not the right personal choice for you.
Quote from: Bottomland OG on March 29, 2024, 10:51:24 PM
...Not a soul there the evening before.This is not a parking lot, it on the side of a road middle of nowhere. 1st truck drives by a hour and a half after I have been there, goes a quarter and parks. 2nd truck pulls up to my truck backs up 100 yds and parks by this time it breaking day. Turkey starts gobbling. 3rd truck pulls up to my truck stops gets out heard a gobble, drives 100yds past my truck, they get out. Now by now I'm as close as I can get to the turkey. 3 different people are moving in every gobble. I haven't said a word, which I hardly ever hoot. But the closer they get the madder I get. One person is less than 100 yds now, it's daylight the turkey is strutting and gobbling 35yds from me on the first big limb in a giant white oak. I told myself I will kill him or nobody will. So you know how it ended they didn't kill him. I hate to shoot one like that but I refuse to be disrespected like that and then get it rubbed in my face. They got what they deserved. This same thing has happened a couple times. I'm sure some of you would have done it differently but I'm sure there are others that would have done the same thing if you where put in that situation.
That situation sucks...and I would have been in a similar frame of mind that you were. I agree with the idea that, in a situation like that, "if I ain't gonna kill him, none of these other jokers are goin' to either". Still, I could not bring myself to shoot him out of the tree, much as I might like to just to spite those other jerk-o**s. I would have no qualms whatsoever about "touchin' one off" into the tree he was in to get him to fly as far out of the county as I could get him to go...and hope that those other *%@$# &*%^!@ got the message about moving in on someone who was there first.
...Wouldn't bring me complete satisfaction about the entire affair,...but it might help a little...although not a lot... >:(
Quote from: Marc on March 30, 2024, 01:12:25 PM
Quote from: Super Fox on March 29, 2024, 10:09:07 AM
As to the OT... I think it would be pretty much universally argued on these forums, that shooting a bird out of the roost is unethical... Should be illegal.
Completely agree with Marc, this is not even debatable.
In Kentucky it is illegal. I have no idea why someone would come on this forum and tell that story. Most on here would not shoot that bird. EVER.
Quote from: Vintage on March 30, 2024, 04:51:30 PM
In Kentucky it is illegal. I have no idea why someone would come on this forum and tell that story. Most on here would not shoot that bird. EVER.
Well, it wasn't illegal where it happened. Never said it was ethical either or something I was proud of but it happened. I responded to the question that was asked. You can think what you want to about me but it happened. Truth be known there are probably more on here that has than you think, they just won't say in fear of tripping someone's trigger like you.
You should not have told that story. Period. It was definitely unethical. So if other hunters on here have done it they had the decency to keep there mouth shut and not tried to justified it by saying someone else did it so it's all right for me to do it.
Illegal in my state and I have had multiple opportunities. Was very proud of my 14 year old son when we snuck right under one (on accident) and he about blew our doors off when he gobbled. Slam dunk shot. Son whispered "we can't shoot him on the limb" before I said anything. He killed a stud bird there 2 years later and I would love to think it was the same bird.
Took pics of the first spring bird I ever killed and the woods in the background were still dark and had several ask me if I shot him off the roost. He was not on the ground for 5 minutes, but he came in strutting to the hens calling him (my buddy) and the one behind us (live hen). Perfect setup.
I don't know where you got it that I was trying to justify anything. Wouldn't have ever done it if it was illegal. The bird knew something was up and stayed in the tree way past fly down. The only reason I done what I done was the circumstances at the time. Again not trying to justify anything I'm just clarifying I done nothing illegal in the state I was in. I done what i done and I owned it. It was a story that I shared. You don't like it, get over it. I hate everyone can't be perfect like you. I don't know how long you have been hunting and frankly don't care, but if you have been at it for any length of time I'm sure you have done something that someone else probably wouldn't have thought was ethical. Like I say it was not something that I was proud of but it happened. Not another person has come at my comment with negativity. I was warned about this kind of crap and people like you that look down on others when I joined. I would never tell anyone they shouldn't be saying whatever they wanted to. If it crossed a line to the point it needed correction I would stay in my lane and let the person in charge do the correcting. You worry about you and I will worry about me. That me being polite.
I think it is pretty funny you toting the bird out past the claim jumpers.
I would never shoot a gobbler off the limb, I would never hunt will anybody that did as I would view them as no better than a poacher. Earn him or leave him alone.
"Judge not...lest you be judged."
Isaiah 53: "he was numbered with the transgressors..."
Quote from: Super Fox on March 31, 2024, 01:27:22 PM
"Judge not...lest you be judged."
Isaiah 53: "he was numbered with the transgressors..."
I think you need to understand the meaning of that, it does not mean to look away from what is wrong or illegal as it is in most states. The way you use it we should not look badly on poachers.
By the way you quoted it incorrectly as well, it is "Judge not, that ye be not judged....." I thought that was correct as well at first.
What about calling one from his roost to a tree in good shotgun range. What would you do?
I have no interest in shooting one out af a tree, but if it is legal, then no worries if others do. I have had guys shoot birds out of trees while I sat there waiting to hunt him.
So in states where it is legal do hunters just go in early and shoot them out of the tree? The reason it is illegal in most states is because it is unethical in my opinion.
This conversation is about roosted birds, but I'd be interested to hear what folks think about a gobbler boogering and getting up into a tree? You call him in. He's at 50 and closing. No shot opportunities. Bird catches movement or something he doesn't like. He putts, runs a few steps, takes off into a tree. Now the bird is in a tree and you've got an open lane, do you shoot?
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Actually I believe that a roost is a place where a turkey spends the night. If the turkey flies up in a tree after fly down time I think it is legal to shoot if it flies back up in a tree.. The discussion here is the bird was on the roost and he shot it to keep other hunters from shooting it. Is it ethical. And should it be posted on a Forum so new hunters may think it is the norm.
I can tell you I have had many many opportunities to shoot birds off the roost, most in the fall, and it just seems extremely unfair to me. SO my short answer is, no I will not. Now I have seen a bird fly in from across a valley and light in a tree in gun range, I have seen spooked birds lift up into a tree and I have also had a wounded bird make it up into a tree. The wounded bird will get shot every time, as it's a recovery and not the original shot. That's only being responsible. I have had it happen once in 52 years and many harvested birds, yeah I finished him off the limb and do not feel bad about it. All the rest get a pass until they hit the ground on their own terms
Quote from: Vintage on March 31, 2024, 03:50:48 PM
Actually I believe that a roost is a place where a turkey spends the night. If the turkey flies up in a tree after fly down time I think it is legal to shoot if it flies back up in a tree.. The discussion here is the bird was on the roost and he shot it to keep other hunters from shooting it. Is it ethical. And should it be posted on a Forum so new hunters may think it is the norm.
That what you just said just reiterates how closed minded you are. It's something that happened 20yrs ago and haven't done anything like since. I don't promote it in any kind of way. As far as someone else using my story as an excuse, well I don't know about yourself but I have the mental capacity of making my own decisions and not use others doings as my excuses. That's very shallow minded of you to think that of someone else. You see it the way you want to and that is how it's supposed to be. It was never about doing it to keep one of the other 3 that had come in on me from killing him. It was the situation all the way around. They done me wrong but never used that to justify it. I never said it was ethical. If you don't agree with something that is your opinion we all have one. It's one thing say what you would and wouldn't do but it's another to be in that particular situation in the heat of the moment.
Quote from: eggshell on March 31, 2024, 04:21:34 PM
I can tell you I have had many many opportunities to shoot birds off the roost, most in the fall, and it just seems extremely unfair to me. SO my short answer is, no I will not. Now I have seen a bird fly in from across a valley and light in a tree in gun range, I have seen spooked birds lift up into a tree and I have also had a wounded bird make it up into a tree. The wounded bird will get shot every time, as it's a recovery and not the original shot. That's only being responsible. I have had it happen once in 52 years and many harvested birds, yeah I finished him off the limb and do not feel bad about it. All the rest get a pass until they hit the ground on their own terms
That's exactly why I asked the question I did. I've also finished a wounded bird that flew into a tree. I wouldn't, however, shoot a bird off a roost. Yet when I really think long and hard about it, I don't know that I wouldn't shoot a bird that flew into a tree at another time of day. And that's a frog hair ethical line. I guess for me the roost involves a matter of taking advantage of a moment when the turkey lacks its most honorable sense. I want to beat their eyes.
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In the future, I've learned from this thread that the only victim to suffer here was the roosted gobbler. Forget about right, wrong, ethical, non-ethical if this happens to me, I will stand up, fire a shot into the air, and walk out of the woods singing loudly. This way, the bird flys off unscathed, the invading hunters learn a lesson, and you have this fine Tom to hunt another day. I know this is "Monday Morning Quarterbacking", but I try to learn from experiences on here. This really is something to learn about for the future.....Be safe...
Quote from: Tom007 on March 31, 2024, 06:35:12 PM
In the future, I've learned from this thread that the only victim to suffer here was the roosted gobbler. Forget about right, wrong, ethical, non-ethical if this happens to me, I will stand up, fire a shot into the air, and walk out of the woods singing loudly. This way, the bird flys off unscathed, the invading hunters learn a lesson, and you have this fine Tom to hunt another day. I know this is "Monday Morning Quarterbacking", but I try to learn from experiences on here. This really is something to learn about for the future.....Be safe...
I respect and agree with you on how you would handle the situation.
Quote from: Bottomland OG on March 31, 2024, 07:48:04 PM
Quote from: Tom007 on March 31, 2024, 06:35:12 PM
In the future, I've learned from this thread that the only victim to suffer here was the roosted gobbler. Forget about right, wrong, ethical, non-ethical if this happens to me, I will stand up, fire a shot into the air, and walk out of the woods singing loudly. This way, the bird flys off unscathed, the invading hunters learn a lesson, and you have this fine Tom to hunt another day. I know this is "Monday Morning Quarterbacking", but I try to learn from experiences on here. This really is something to learn about for the future.....Be safe...
I respect and agree with you on how you would handle the situation.
Thanks. It's a tough situation to be in for sure. This is what's good about the forum. It gets contentious at times, but in the end, we all are in this together to hopefully be the fraternity that others look up to to make our sport better and more enjoyable.... Be safe, good luck this season....
You don't call yourself a sportsman and shoot a bird out of a tree. Only if wounded, just like you wouldn't sluice a duck on the water unless crippled or a blast a ruffed grouse on the ground unless winged. If a frightened game bird flies into a tree he's safe, period. This isn't really a debatable topic and not a matter of personal ethics. It's cut and dry, and wrong, and has been for a very, very long time among American sportsmen.
Quite a few years ago, I remember watching Michael Wadell calling in a Longbeard that "Tree Hopped" all the way to him. The turkey answered his calls, gobbling all the way. He shot him out of the tree. This was nowhere close to daylight. It was way later. He also offered no apologies.
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Quote from: Zobo on March 31, 2024, 09:40:45 PM
You don't call yourself a sportsman and shoot a bird out of a tree. Only if wounded, just like you wouldn't sluice a duck on the water unless crippled or a blast a ruffed grouse on the ground unless winged. If a frightened game bird flies into a tree he's safe, period. This isn't really a debatable topic and not a matter or personal ethics. It's cut and dry, and wrong, and has been for a very, very long time among American sportsmen.
X10 here. My first post here is and always will be my stance on shooting a turkey off the limb. When I hunt, I set up at least 150 yards away from a roosted Tom. I hunt mostly open woods ridge terrain. I have been successful allowing the Tom to fly down, then I call him to the gun. Obviously it doesn't play out to a harvest all the time, but when it does it's an unmatched thrill. To me, common roost areas that turkeys use year after year are sacred areas that I am careful to not get in to close to. Again, this is just the way I choose to play the game. Be safe, good luck...
I just like calling them myself. Good luck this spring everyone. If he lives today, i hope i get another chance to hunt him again tomorrow. Just remember hunting gobblers on private / public takes different tactics...
YOU are the one responsible for the decisions you make in the turkey woods.
Good post everyone, i have enjoyed reading the different opinions..
Thanks folks.
My answers to much in my 60+ years of turkey hunting-successfully in 3 states- has been: "What would my Dad or Tom Kelly do?"
It has worked and you form your own honorable code as a sportsman.
Some of you, like myself, have finally gotten an old gobbler after 2 or 3 years hunting the same turkey.
If a gobbler fools you or bests you-he is still around to regale the woods with his voice. And that is what it is all about.
-----------------Remaining a member in good standing-Tenth Legion----------------------
Life Member-Parker GC Assn
AH Fox Collectors Assn
Special Forces Assn-Life
MACVSOG/SOA- LIFE
The interesting thing I take from this is that in the State of Pennsylvania there is no law against shooting a roosted turkey, but it would be illegal to fire a gun indiscriminately in the air and stomp out of the woods singing loudly.
Purposely spooking the turkey and disturbing hunters falls under harassing wildlife and hunter harassment laws.
You would be cited with nothing for roost shooting, but you could face 2-3 fines for the disturbance.
Quote from: Number17 on April 04, 2024, 08:57:14 AM
The interesting thing I take from this is that in the State of Pennsylvania there is no law against shooting a roosted turkey, but it would be illegal to fire a gun indiscriminately in the air and stomp out of the woods singing loudly.
Purposely spooking the turkey and disturbing hunters falls under harassing wildlife and hunter harassment laws.
You would be cited with nothing for roost shooting, but you could face 2-3 fines for the disturbance.
My life is more valuable than any turkey in the woods. If people with zero ethics come in and purposely set up around me when I'm on a bird first, No one in their right mind would stay in that unsafe environment. I'm leaving WITHOUT getting shot. I do not hunt public land for this reason, period........
PS, I would not "Stomp" out of the woods, just a casual walk........
Quote from: Tom007 on April 04, 2024, 11:06:43 AM
Quote from: Number17 on April 04, 2024, 08:57:14 AM
The interesting thing I take from this is that in the State of Pennsylvania there is no law against shooting a roosted turkey, but it would be illegal to fire a gun indiscriminately in the air and stomp out of the woods singing loudly.
Purposely spooking the turkey and disturbing hunters falls under harassing wildlife and hunter harassment laws.
You would be cited with nothing for roost shooting, but you could face 2-3 fines for the disturbance.
My life is more valuable than any turkey in the woods. If people with zero ethics come in and purposely set up around me when I'm on a bird first, No one in their right mind would stay in that unsafe environment. I'm leaving WITHOUT getting shot. I do not hunt public land for this reason, period........
PS, I would not "Stomp" out of the woods, just a casual walk........
I am with you on the leaving thing and I might be making some noise doing it, Like talking really loud and saying hunter coming through or making sure they know I am a person. I carry a hunter orange stocking cap for these times as well. I flat out guarantee you no turkey ever hatched or that will ever be hatched is worth getting shot over....yeah most of you know how I know that. Get pissed, stand your ground, or whatever, but I am leaving and leaving fast, if a turkey is that d*mn important to someone they can have it.
Quote from: eggshell on April 04, 2024, 02:46:23 PM
Quote from: Tom007 on April 04, 2024, 11:06:43 AM
Quote from: Number17 on April 04, 2024, 08:57:14 AM
The interesting thing I take from this is that in the State of Pennsylvania there is no law against shooting a roosted turkey, but it would be illegal to fire a gun indiscriminately in the air and stomp out of the woods singing loudly.
Purposely spooking the turkey and disturbing hunters falls under harassing wildlife and hunter harassment laws.
You would be cited with nothing for roost shooting, but you could face 2-3 fines for the disturbance.
My life is more valuable than any turkey in the woods. If people with zero ethics come in and purposely set up around me when I'm on a bird first, No one in their right mind would stay in that unsafe environment. I'm leaving WITHOUT getting shot. I do not hunt public land for this reason, period........
PS, I would not "Stomp" out of the woods, just a casual walk........
I am with you on the leaving thing and I might be making some noise doing it, Like talking really loud and saying hunter coming through or making sure they know I am a person. I carry a hunter orange stocking cap for these times as well. I flat out guarantee you no turkey ever hatched or that will ever be hatched is worth getting shot over....yeah most of you know how I know that. Get pissed, stand your ground, or whatever, but I am leaving and leaving fast, if a turkey is that d*mn important to someone they can have it.
Amen my friend...
I'm not sure if it's legal to limb shoot a gobbler in N.C., but it should be if it is. My grandfather always told me that if he's off the ground, he's off limits. Play the game, if he wins, he wins. That is what keeps you coming back. But if you find the chink in his armour and get the drop on him, you win!
Jim
Shooting off the roost takes no skill. Why even bother when you can pick up a rotisserie chicken at Publix for less than the cost of a TSS shell.
Quote from: Tom007 on March 31, 2024, 06:35:12 PM
In the future, I've learned from this thread that the only victim to suffer here was the roosted gobbler. Forget about right, wrong, ethical, non-ethical if this happens to, I will stand up, fire a shot into the air, and walk out of the woods singing loudly. This way, the bird flys off unscathed, the invading hunters learn a lesson, and you have this fine Tom to hunt another day. I know this is "Monday Morning Quarterbacking", but I try to learn from experiences on here. This really is something to learn about for the future.....Be safe...
Tom007, The only thing I could disagree with in your statement, that the other hunters learned a lesson. The ones have come across don't ever seem to learn!
I have definitly walked away from folks wanting to mix it up! My comment to them was they weren't worth the effort!
Ralph
Thanks for the replies. A true turkey hunter would never shoot a bird on the roost
Quote from: outdoorguy3 on April 09, 2024, 11:44:18 AM
Quote from: Tom007 on March 31, 2024, 06:35:12 PM
In the future, I've learned from this thread that the only victim to suffer here was the roosted gobbler. Forget about right, wrong, ethical, non-ethical if this happens to, I will stand up, fire a shot into the air, and walk out of the woods singing loudly. This way, the bird flys off unscathed, the invading hunters learn a lesson, and you have this fine Tom to hunt another day. I know this is "Monday Morning Quarterbacking", but I try to learn from experiences on here. This really is something to learn about for the future.....Be safe...
Tom007, The only thing I could disagree with in your statement, that the other hunters learned a lesson. The ones have come across don't ever seem to learn!
I have definitly walked away from folks wanting to mix it up! My comment to them was they weren't worth the effort!
Ralph
Amen Ralph, I avoid crowds, controversy, and altercations with hunters.....it just isn't worth it. My "rumbling" days are over since I retired from Ice Hockey a few years ago. Now it's just time to hunt and enjoy the woods.....