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I have two trumpet calls. A Frank Heglar and an Austy Bott adjustable. When I run them they both sound clear as opposed to raspy. Now...the Austy Bott, being adjustable, does change in tone somewhat due to changing the length but it still sounds clear. So my question for those of you that are "pros" is this: Is the clearness, or raspyness, something you're doing or is it built into the call?

I also have an EZ wingbone...great call. I would also categorize it as clear...although it's a bit more raspy than the Heglar or Bott trumpet.

When I hear the YouTubes of Mark Prudhomme et al there's no way I can sound that raspy. What say you?

 Wet your lips and drawl the air.  It's an air leak that creates the rasp.  Wing bone  and notched style stems make it easier. 

Its you not the call a good player can make any call raspy.

its the caller I seen a youtube video of  Zach farmer running one very raspy.

Quote from: Turkeyman on April 25, 2021, 03:35:08 PM
When I hear Mark Prudhomme there's no way I can sound that raspy. What say you?

With a whole lot of practice they say you could, but then again they also say turkey calling is only 10% of turkey killing, so if that much time in practice isn't worth maybe the <1% chance of it making a difference from where you're already at with your calling, then you should be perfectly content not sounding as good as Prudhomme or Farmer or any of the other legends of air operation. 

That being said, keep at it, they're fun calls to mess with. I know I got a long way to go on them, but still find success with them.

Both. A lot of it is lip vibration. Some folks do it by adding moisture. Call me crazy but I think part of Farmer's secret is the hard candy he always keeps in his mouth when he's playing. But a maker can open up the bell and/or make other changes to the internals and increase rasp. I've had long conversations with quite a few makers about that. [mention]gergg [/mention]makes an incredible trumpet and he's been fiddling with internals to add rasp over the last year. Just ask him. Ask Anthony Ellis. Hell, ask Mark Prudhomme why he started turning trumpets and how he was able to achieve the sound he wanted.


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Quote from: warrent423 on April 25, 2021, 06:15:48 PM

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on April 25, 2021, 05:46:59 PM
Both. A lot of it is lip vibration. Some folks do it by adding moisture. Call me crazy but I think part of Farmer's secret is the hard candy he always keeps in his mouth when he's playing. But a maker can open up the bell and/or make other changes to the internals and increase rasp. I've had long conversations with quite a few makers about that. [mention]gergg [/mention]makes an incredible trumpet and he's been fiddling with internals to add rasp over the last year. Just ask him. Ask Anthony Ellis. Hell, ask Mark Prudhomme why he started turning trumpets and how he was able to achieve the sound he wanted.


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Let's hear some rasp on the Gregg or Ellis yelpers. I've yet to hear even those two builders come even remotely close to matching Mark or Zack's sound.

I'll make a sound file of both Greg's calls side by side tomorrow. The raspier call I have of his is a lot more open bell design. I tend to not like an open bell as much so Greg has since been fooling with other internals to try and achieve the same sound without opening the bell. Anthony hasn't made a call that I'm aware of with the intent to increase rasp. But he and I have had multiple conversations about how bell shape and altered internals affect those qualities. Ask a callmaker! Prudhomme has said flat out that the reason he started building calls was because he couldn't achieve the sound he wanted. Much of that, I guarantee you, was rasp. As far as me making either an AGE or one of Greg's sound as good as Mr. Farmer or Mark Prudhomme, that's not what I said. What I said was that internals affect rasp. Mouthpiece design affects rasp. The idea that it's ONLY in the person using it is


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Internals only affect how you can draw air. All the sound is the player. Rasp doesn't come from the call. That's physically impossible. It comes from how your lips interact with each other and the mouth piece. There are things you can do with one call you can't with another, and different calls project your sound back out differently, but it comes down to what you're doing. It's not the call itself.

As you learn to play, you'll learn how to make a call both clear and raspy by varying how you play it. It's not something you can buy. You have to practice and try. I'm getting close on purring on a trumpet. A few years ago I had no clue how to even begin.

Quote from: howl on April 25, 2021, 06:59:12 PM
Internals only affect how you can draw air. All the sound is the player. Rasp doesn't come from the call. That's physically impossible. It comes from how your lips interact with each other and the mouth piece. There are things you can do with one call you can't with another, and different calls project your sound back out differently, but it comes down to what you're doing. It's not the call itself.

As you learn to play, you'll learn how to make a call both clear and raspy by varying how you play it. It's not something you can buy. You have to practice and try. I'm getting close on purring on a trumpet. A few years ago I had no clue how to even begin.

"All the sound is the player?" Smaller diameter hole in the mouthpiece plays higher. Larger diameter hole plays lower. Shortened internals play quicker. Lengthened internals get throatier. Wall thickness, bell shape, mouthpiece design, material, finish ALL AFFECT SOUND. If what you were saying were true you could do everything with a jordan. Play it high, play it deep. Play it quick, play it throaty. Play it clean, play it raspy. Good players can obviously alter sound more dynamically than people who aren't proficient but play an AGE T5 next to an XT and tell me the T5 isn't a quicker call. Why's it quicker? For the most part the shortened internals. Same with Buice's shortened internals. It's a quicker call. That's not the player doing that. It's the call.


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It's all in the lip pressure and draw for me. I can make all of my suction calls wing bones or trumpets  play clear or raspy.Internals and design may make certain calls easier to play raspy or clear but I haven't found one that I can't change. I have a Lewis Stowe that seems a little easier to get rasp out of than some of my others but that is how Lewis plays his calls so he probably builds them for that. His call also sounds great as a clear note as well.

Quote from: Chris O on April 25, 2021, 08:05:40 PM
...that is how Lewis plays his calls so he probably builds them for that.

Exactly.


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I'd venture to say everyone on this thread and in this forum would agree that Mark Prudhomme is more proficient on a yelper than they are (I most certainly would). So if it's all in the caller not in the call why has he said very specifically that he started making his own trumpets because he couldn't achieve the sound he wanted out of the ones he was using? If what the people in this thread arguing "it's all in the caller" were true, Prudhomme could have achieved the sound he was looking for with a Penn's Woods.


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Lewis Stowe makes a really nice call and  he can use it .......

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on April 25, 2021, 08:34:17 PM
I'd venture to say everyone on this thread and in this forum would agree that Mark Prudhomme is more proficient on a yelper than they are (I most certainly would). So if it's all in the caller not in the call why has he said very specifically that he started making his own trumpets because he couldn't achieve the sound he wanted out of the ones he was using? If what the people in this thread arguing "it's all in the caller" were true, Prudhomme could have achieved the sound he was looking for with a Penn's Woods.

The build of the yelper doesn't make it raspy it's the user playing that style.   The call design only lends ease of playing it raspy.  All calls can be played raspy.   But building a call to be played specifically in that "farmer" style can take away from from the overall playability of that call.  To answer your question on why mark designed his the way he did is for ease of playing that style not to make a trumpet sound raspy just by playing it as it can be played with no rasp.   Your comment about playing a penns woods and not needing to build one is generalizing to support your opinion.    To play the farmer style a more open trumpet tends to work better the exact opposite of a farmer.    I don't know if you've ever played an actual Zach Farmer call or a Prudhomme or a penns woods but I have and  a more open call playing that raspy style is easier but with the caviat that building a call for that style will limit versatility to some extent.  It's a give and take situation.   
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Quote from: mmclain on April 26, 2021, 12:51:50 AM

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on April 25, 2021, 08:34:17 PM
I'd venture to say everyone on this thread and in this forum would agree that Mark Prudhomme is more proficient on a yelper than they are (I most certainly would). So if it's all in the caller not in the call why has he said very specifically that he started making his own trumpets because he couldn't achieve the sound he wanted out of the ones he was using? If what the people in this thread arguing "it's all in the caller" were true, Prudhomme could have achieved the sound he was looking for with a Penn's Woods.

The build of the yelper doesn't make it raspy it's the user playing that style.   The call design only lends ease of playing it raspy.  All calls can be played raspy.   But building a call to be played specifically in that "farmer" style can take away from from the overall playability of that call.  To answer your question on why mark designed his the way he did is for ease of playing that style not to make a trumpet sound raspy just by playing it as it can be played with no rasp.   Your comment about playing a penns woods and not needing to build one is generalizing to support your opinion.    To play the farmer style a more open trumpet tends to work better the exact opposite of a farmer.    I don't know if you've ever played an actual Zach Farmer call or a Prudhomme or a penns woods but I have and  a more open call playing that raspy style is easier but with the caviat that building a call for that style will limit versatility to some extent.  It's a give and take situation.   
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No, I've never owned or played a Farmer. What does that have to do with anything? I've played two of Mark's and what I noticed with both was a more open bell design. That's what led me to have the conversations I did with some callmakers I respect and who are buddies of mine. The idea that the only change Prudhomme sought to achieve was ease of draw, he was playing good, well built trumpets before he started building his own. He wanted to optimize the sound he was looking for, specifically with regards to his yelp, and he built his call to do that. You say "the build of the yelper doesn't make it raspy" then turn right around and say "a more open call [makes] playing that raspy style easier." THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE TIME. It's both. Playing style is the largest part of it but internals and bell design greatly increase one's ability to play in that style. Sure you can get some rasp out of one of Anthony Ellis' calls but you'll get more and better rasp out of one of Prudhomme's. It's tuned and optimized for that style of play.


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I had the good fortune of listening to "PG" play a trumpet at Unicoi two years ago. He is, to this point, the best yelper player I have ever heard, hands down. He calls very raspy but still had that high and clear front end that broke into the raspy backend. He happened to have a Buice trumpet at the time, but said he could call like that with most other trumpets. I gave him one of my wingbones to try (a short, quick one) and he got rasp but not as much as with the Buice.

He inspired me to practice this raspy way of calling, just because I wanted to learn both ways. PG was a pretty quiet guy, but his advice to me was to "think" of the sound I wanted to make and your lips would eventually adjust to make that sound. It didn't take me long to be able to call with rasp. I did notice that I was drawing on the very end of the MP and was always raspier with a "chew" in my mouth (more saliva).

Since all of my calls (WBs and Jordans) are all slightly different, I did notice that some were easier to get rasp out of than others. That being said, and IMO, the more ways and sounds you can learn, the better, I believe I get a better response from turkeys when I call clear. That's my experience.

Yes EZ, "PG" can sure run one!  And those purrs.....

Quote from: KentuckyHeadhunter on April 26, 2021, 08:15:07 AM
Yes EZ, "PG" can sure run one!  And those purrs.....

Amazing. He made my trip. I "thought" I could call pretty good 'til I heard him. Couldn't even walk in the same room, lol.

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on April 26, 2021, 06:48:57 AM

Quote from: mmclain on April 26, 2021, 12:51:50 AM

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on April 25, 2021, 08:34:17 PM
I'd venture to say everyone on this thread and in this forum would agree that Mark Prudhomme is more proficient on a yelper than they are (I most certainly would). So if it's all in the caller not in the call why has he said very specifically that he started making his own trumpets because he couldn't achieve the sound he wanted out of the ones he was using? If what the people in this thread arguing "it's all in the caller" were true, Prudhomme could have achieved the sound he was looking for with a Penn's Woods.

The build of the yelper doesn't make it raspy it's the user playing that style.   The call design only lends ease of playing it raspy.  All calls can be played raspy.   But building a call to be played specifically in that "farmer" style can take away from from the overall playability of that call.  To answer your question on why mark designed his the way he did is for ease of playing that style not to make a trumpet sound raspy just by playing it as it can be played with no rasp.   Your comment about playing a penns woods and not needing to build one is generalizing to support your opinion.    To play the farmer style a more open trumpet tends to work better the exact opposite of a farmer.    I don't know if you've ever played an actual Zach Farmer call or a Prudhomme or a penns woods but I have and  a more open call playing that raspy style is easier but with the caviat that building a call for that style will limit versatility to some extent.  It's a give and take situation.   
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No, I've never owned or played a Farmer. What does that have to do with anything? I've played two of Mark's and what I noticed with both was a more open bell design. That's what led me to have the conversations I did with some callmakers I respect and who are buddies of mine. The idea that the only change Prudhomme sought to achieve was ease of draw, he was playing good, well built trumpets before he started building his own. He wanted to optimize the sound he was looking for, specifically with regards to his yelp, and he built his call to do that. You say "the build of the yelper doesn't make it raspy" then turn right around and say "a more open call [makes] playing that raspy style easier." THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE TIME. It's both. Playing style is the largest part of it but internals and bell design greatly increase one's ability to play in that style. Sure you can get some rasp out of one of Anthony Ellis' calls but you'll get more and better rasp out of one of Prudhomme's. It's tuned and optimized for that style of play.

The person makes the call raspy.  Nothing in the call makes it raspy and you don't necessarily get more or better rasp based solely on the body of the call.   there are lots of variables.    Building a call for a specific style of playing can limit versatility.  You can get just as much and rasp just as good from many trumpets that aren't built as open.  .     Plus I'd venture to say your opening sentence stated your bias right off the bat BTW and that sentence isn't factual in reality.   

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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on April 25, 2021, 08:08:41 PM

Quote from: Chris O on April 25, 2021, 08:05:40 PM
...that is how Lewis plays his calls so he probably builds them for that.

Exactly.


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I can get some rasp on all my trumpets,but the two I have from Lewis and my Buice calls are the easiest for me and the ones from Lewis I can get it effortless....I think it's definitely mostly in the way you draw air,it's in the lips and in the friction you create but certain makers definitely build calls that are a lot easier to achieve...it's hard to explain,but all I know for certain is my Lewis Stowe calls are killers and are super easy to play raspy.

Quote from: greentag on April 26, 2021, 08:06:02 PM

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on April 25, 2021, 08:08:41 PM

Quote from: Chris O on April 25, 2021, 08:05:40 PM
...that is how Lewis plays his calls so he probably builds them for that.

Exactly.


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I can get some rasp on all my trumpets,but the two I have from Lewis and my Buice calls are the easiest for me and the ones from Lewis I can get it effortless....I think it's definitely mostly in the way you draw air,it's in the lips and in the friction you create but certain makers definitely build calls that are a lot easier to achieve...it's hard to explain,but all I know for certain is my Lewis Stowe calls are killers and are super easy to play raspy.

Yep. And that's all I was ever saying. I don't own a Stowe, but I've got calls that are much easier to achieve rasp. The reason: their design.

Quote from: mmclain on April 26, 2021, 07:26:19 PM

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on April 26, 2021, 06:48:57 AM

Quote from: mmclain on April 26, 2021, 12:51:50 AM

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on April 25, 2021, 08:34:17 PM
Plus I'd venture to say your opening sentence stated your bias right off the bat BTW and that sentence isn't factual in reality.   

What sentence is biased, and false?


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 I'd venture to say everyone on this thread and in this forum would agree that Mark Prudhomme is more proficient on a yelper than they are (I most certainly would).    That's includes a lot of people.  You must be one hell of an armchair expert.   

Quote from: mmclain on April 27, 2021, 12:35:49 AM
I'd venture to say everyone on this thread and in this forum would agree that Mark Prudhomme is more proficient on a yelper than they are (I most certainly would).    That's includes a lot of people.  You must be one hell of an armchair expert.

He's a 17-time Grand National Champion and one of the best trumpet callers likely alive You're calling me an armchair expert and biased liar for assuming most people on this forum would recognize they're not as good on a trumpet as the person who's won more Grand National calling competitions than anyone in history?!? Hell, I'll say the same thing about Farmer [gasp]. Most people on this forum (sans you) would be willing to admit they can't play a yelper as good as the Rev. Zach Farmer. Are you kidding?!? I didn't realize I was talking to someone so amazing on a yelper. You must be right about everything. I rescind everything I said.

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/Z9OGuQyrfHAE8/giphy.gif)


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I'll tell one thing , when in in the woods with a trumpet , I is the champ , there's always one bird that'll won't to meet me and show how good It is too hear me play.and do a dance for me  :funnyturkey:

I can hear Clearly now the Rasp is gone

Quote from: crow on April 27, 2021, 04:49:47 PM
I can hear Clearly now the Rasp is gone

:funnyturkey:

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on April 27, 2021, 04:23:33 AM

Quote from: mmclain on April 27, 2021, 12:35:49 AM
I'd venture to say everyone on this thread and in this forum would agree that Mark Prudhomme is more proficient on a yelper than they are (I most certainly would).    That's includes a lot of people.  You must be one hell of an armchair expert.

He's a 17-time Grand National Champion and one of the best trumpet callers likely alive You're calling me an armchair expert and biased liar for assuming most people on this forum would recognize they're not as good on a trumpet as the person who's won more Grand National calling competitions than anyone in history?!? Hell, I'll say the same thing about Farmer [gasp]. Most people on this forum (sans you) would be willing to admit they can't play a yelper as good as the Rev. Zach Farmer. Are you kidding?!? I didn't realize I was talking to someone so amazing on a yelper. You must be right about everything. I rescind everything I said.

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/Z9OGuQyrfHAE8/giphy.gif)

Well I guess you just showed me.  :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:I can't wait for you to hold a video lecture on your expertise.    Plenty of calls and callers that are just as good that's a fact.   But what do I knO.


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Quote from: crow on April 27, 2021, 04:49:47 PM
I can hear Clearly now the Rasp is gone

:TooFunny: :TooFunny: