I got a question for the run & gun guys...
Let's say you roost a bird, you get in tight in the AM, but turkeys do what turkeys do, and the Tom flys off in another direction, or runs into a hen and he never comes into range and leaves with the hen.
Here's where my question comes...
Do you sit tight and wait until he loses the hen and then hopefully come back to look?
Or do you try to follow them and wait for him to lose the hen and then go in for your attempt?
Or do you abandon that gobbler and instantly go looking for another bird and then maybe go back to that spot mid morning in case he shows up?
I really plan on trying to cover a lot of ground this coming season and I'm trying to map out a strategy.
Don't call while they are in the tree... ;)
Depends. If I have a a noon, 1 pm deadline then sitting around waiting for him to get lonely isn't really high odds. I am not cut out to sit around much so I pretty much do one of 2 things. See if the hens are feeling sociable(usually they are not) or make them really,really mad. This usually involves badgering them and circling them to badger them some more. If I can eventually get the hens to at least get tired of swapping directions and mad enough to take a peek at me then I have had decent luck swinging the old boy off to the side enough to bring him in range. But usually my first reaction if calling him in off the roost is unsuccessfull is to slip around and see if there are any other lonely candidates out there. If my original birds seem to be the only game in town then I start working them. I just tend to hunt by touch and feel. A tom with hens can be a pretty frustrating customer. That's part of the challenge though.
"Or do you abandon that gobbler and instantly go looking for another bird and then maybe go back to that spot mid morning in case he shows up?"
This wud be my choice
Quote from: Brwndg on February 18, 2020, 07:30:18 PM
"Or do you abandon that gobbler and instantly go looking for another bird and then maybe go back to that spot mid morning in case he shows up?"
This wud be my choice
X2.
Quote from: Upfold99 on February 18, 2020, 07:58:48 PM
Quote from: Brwndg on February 18, 2020, 07:30:18 PM
"Or do you abandon that gobbler and instantly go looking for another bird and then maybe go back to that spot mid morning in case he shows up?"
This wud be my choice
X2.
X3. This tactic after flydown tends to be my MO, but I've learned to pay better attention to how the gobbler was responding - was his response cursory, or was there interest. If I suspect he's interested but currently distracted, I'll stay put, but give him plenty of space and time. Like Happy its not in my nature to sit still, but patience mixed with long periods of silence works.
cool, that's what I planned on doing. If not that exact spot, an area close to that spot where he left from, then just do some blind calling for an hour or so before moving off.
I always seem to have the trouble of choosing between just sitting for a couple hours or moving on and keep looking.
Really depends on the size of the area you are hunting....
Assuming I have tried all my tricks (calling in the hens, gobbling at the toms, etc.)
Smaller property, I am more likely to set up in a high traffic area and hope for a different bird if I do not kill the bird I roosted... Larger property, I am more likely to search for a willing bird.
I have had terrible luck calling birds back to an area there were shortly before... I also enjoy engaging the birds. Drumming up a gobbling bird and going after him, has a sense of excitement.
Hunting a well-traveled area with patience is probably more productive... And I have no doubt I have scared more birds than I have killed, but covering ground and calling up a bird is the most enjoyable way to hunt for "me."
Once I find one, I try to stay with them until one of us makes a mistake. If I lose tabs on him then I'll go look for another, but it's hard for me to leave a bird to find a bird.
Quote from: dirt road ninja on February 19, 2020, 06:13:20 AM
Once I find one, I try to stay with them until one of us makes a mistake. If I lose tabs on him then I'll go look for another, but it's hard for me to leave a bird to find a bird.
I'm in that same boat. I have had them just disappear on me though. Which is why I'm looking at taking different approach this season. Which is why I do t mind coming back and revisiting the spot if I didn't have any luck anywhere else.
I currently have some medical issues and run n gun less but I did it since the 80s if the roost hunt didn't work.
There's considerations. One if it flies down w hens and you can't work the hens nor anger the bird w jake sounds I'd leave. In my scouting I'd hopefully have other birds located nearby. Better yet if I had another roosted nearby.
I'd simply go try n work a fresh bird. Too often guys chase after em only to push them away. If you stayed relatively non aggressive the bird may eventually come back.
If the bird flies off a mtn into fields I can't hunt why would I try n call em back into that mtn?
Trying to map out a statedgy imo means locating as many birds as possible. Roosting one or more a night so you have back up plans.
Letting a bird doesn't want to work do his thing and finding one that does wanna work. Sitting in one spot waiting imo isn't the best option at times. You could be working a bird. sometimes a few minutes more are helpful. It depends on the situations there's no every time answer. There's actually different ones here and they could all work.
Experience will help you decide. More often than not though, even limited I'm not rotting in one spot too long after the birds leave
Quote from: Marc on February 19, 2020, 02:04:07 AM
Really depends on the size of the area you are hunting....
Smaller property, I am more likely to set up in a high traffic area and hope for a different bird if I do not kill the bird I roosted... Larger property, I am more likely to search for a willing bird.
This^^ How I hunt an area begins with what I have available, as well as my assessment as to how many turkeys are there. I absolutely hate the "patience game",...that is, sitting around waiting for a gobbler to show up,...but sometimes that is how you have to play it. Running around helter-skelter on 200 acres hoping to find a gobbling turkey is a good way to either run the birds off the place or get them to clam-up altogether while sneaking around trying to avoid you.
However, you can extend a small property to something considerably larger by easing along the perimeter of the property and trying to strike a gobbler off of an adjacent property. That is a strategy I have used many times hunting places where I was restricted to a small area. You may be restricted to a particular piece of property, but gobblers don't know property lines.
On large tracts, I am going to go prospecting for gobblers pretty quickly. The only exception to that is if I am aware that the woods are saturated with other hunters and that I might interfere with their engagement with a bird. That is where having knowledge of the area you are hunting,...via experience or the use of good mapping systems,...makes a major difference. Knowing where to head to get away from the competition (and being in condition to be able to get there) makes a world of difference in finding a gobbling turkey.
Stay put, key word satellite gobblers
For me and where I'm at as a hunter there's a time to "run and gun" and I time for patience. Most of the time if your setup is good, in a good area, it's the time for patience. I try to give a bird a couple hours off the roost. Sometimes if your not right in the area they want to fly to and strut, you have to wait on them. Every situation is different but I've had better luck being patient the first few hours of the day. When I do run and gun, I go to areas I know turkeys to be or suspect if I don't know the property. If turkeys aren't gobbling a lot I will do a lot of 1 hour setups, cold calling just here and there.
It goes without saying that every situation is different, however, it's hard for me to walk away from a gobbling turkey. If he shuts up when he connects with those hens, and I can hear another turkey gobbling, I very well may leave him and go chase the other one.
If he still continues to gobble, then I would try to circle around and intercept them (if I know where they're going) or try to pick a fight with the hens.
Quote from: Missouri hunter on February 20, 2020, 03:18:10 PM
For me and where I'm at as a hunter there's a time to "run and gun" and I time for patience. Most of the time if your setup is good, in a good area, it's the time for patience. I try to give a bird a couple hours off the roost. Sometimes if your not right in the area they want to fly to and strut, you have to wait on them. Every situation is different but I've had better luck being patient the first few hours of the day. When I do run and gun, I go to areas I know turkeys to be or suspect if I don't know the property. If turkeys aren't gobbling a lot I will do a lot of 1 hour setups, cold calling just here and there.
That's not a bad idea... last season I did some cold calling for about an hour. As I get up to walk away I hear a Tom drum, too late, he busted me as I stood up about 20 yards from him.
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 20, 2020, 08:49:40 AM
Quote from: Marc on February 19, 2020, 02:04:07 AM
Really depends on the size of the area you are hunting....
Smaller property, I am more likely to set up in a high traffic area and hope for a different bird if I do not kill the bird I roosted... Larger property, I am more likely to search for a willing bird.
This^^ How I hunt an area begins with what I have available, as well as my assessment as to how many turkeys are there. I absolutely hate the "patience game",...that is, sitting around waiting for a gobbler to show up,...but sometimes that is how you have to play it. Running around helter-skelter on 200 acres hoping to find a gobbling turkey is a good way to either run the birds off the place or get them to clam-up altogether while sneaking around trying to avoid you.
However, you can extend a small property to something considerably larger by easing along the perimeter of the property and trying to strike a gobbler off of an adjacent property. That is a strategy I have used many times hunting places where I was restricted to a small area. You may be restricted to a particular piece of property, but gobblers don't know property lines.
On large tracts, I am going to go prospecting for gobblers pretty quickly. The only exception to that is if I am aware that the woods are saturated with other hunters and that I might interfere with their engagement with a bird. That is where having knowledge of the area you are hunting,...via experience or the use of good mapping systems,...makes a major difference. Knowing where to head to get away from the competition (and being in condition to be able to get there) makes a world of difference in finding a gobbling turkey.
I plan on hunting larger pieces of public, 5,000 plus acres. Some much bigger, some a little smaller if they hold birds.
Quote from: CALLM2U on February 20, 2020, 04:15:36 PM
It goes without saying that every situation is different, however, it's hard for me to walk away from a gobbling turkey. If he shuts up when he connects with those hens, and I can hear another turkey gobbling, I very well may leave him and go chase the other one.
If he still continues to gobble, then I would try to circle around and intercept them (if I know where they're going) or try to pick a fight with the hens.
I think this is a good plan B if the terrain allows you to circle him without getting busted. Probably will be my 2nd attempt if off the roost doesn't work.
Quote from: Mossberg90MN on February 21, 2020, 12:50:53 AM
Quote from: Missouri hunter on February 20, 2020, 03:18:10 PM
For me and where I'm at as a hunter there's a time to "run and gun" and I time for patience. Most of the time if your setup is good, in a good area, it's the time for patience. I try to give a bird a couple hours off the roost. Sometimes if your not right in the area they want to fly to and strut, you have to wait on them. Every situation is different but I've had better luck being patient the first few hours of the day. When I do run and gun, I go to areas I know turkeys to be or suspect if I don't know the property. If turkeys aren't gobbling a lot I will do a lot of 1 hour setups, cold calling just here and there.
That's not a bad idea... last season I did some cold calling for about an hour. As I get up to walk away I hear a Tom drum, too late, he busted me as I stood up about 20 yards from him.
Yeah sometimes you need an hour and a half... haha. It's pretty awesome when you don't know ones there and he gobbles at 50-60yds looking for you. I've had to work on being more patient as I messed up a lot of birds in my early days by moving when they had already broke to come in to the setup. Some I've them I flushed and some I just wondered what happened. I guess the main thing I'm saying if your going to run and gun make sure you slow down and hunt to. Last year I got called a bird in that my brother was able to harvest. We had an early setup on a bird that wouldn't work to the calls. Then I flush a satellite bird that was coming in but never gobbled except on the roost a long way away. Heard him walking and tried to swing the gun on him...
After all that played out around 9 we headed for a spot I know birds to hang out. Took about an hour just to get in the area (this was all on a big piece of public). Slowly moved out the ridge calling every 50-75yards stopping to listen. It was breezy... We had just called and then waited about 5 minutes while talking about setting up for awhile and then he gobbled. Either for the first time or the first time we could here him. While we are talking about where he is and what to do he gobbles again 50 yards closer. I told my brother to grab a tree and 5 minutes and a couple more calls to him once we were set and we we're standing over a hot 2 year old. It was awesome! If we would have been in a hurry and just started marching after my calls we never even would've known he was there.
Quote from: Mossberg90MN on February 21, 2020, 12:54:20 AM
I plan on hunting larger pieces of public, 5,000 plus acres. Some much bigger, some a little smaller if they hold birds.
Having those options on large properties, you can play your cards however you want to. The general rule is to never leave a gobbler that is responding to your calling. For me, however, there is one exception,....and that is having another bird (or more) in the distance that is answering your calls and showing more interest.
There is another possibility by doing that, as well,...and that is by changing your focus to another gobbler, and perhaps relocating towards that bird, your original bird may change his attitude and decide to come take a look before the competitor gets there. In addition, even if the first gobbler has no real interest in coming to your calls, if you are calling to another bird that is approaching you, the first gobbler is very likely to come to confront the second bird.
I can't tell you how many times the above scenario has played out for me when dealing with a henned-up, or hung-up, gobbler.
I agree, if your working a bird that is not moving and then a second bird opens up you better turn to that bird. He'll be the first to show up in most cases, or as Gobblenut said your in the middle of a fight and that's a good thing.
I think staying on birds and moving around them, will ultimately result in a spooked bird, and is one of the most common mistakes made by turkey hunters. I absolutely will pull off a hung up gobbler, no matter where I'm at. I will try him later that day or another. If your on a small property, then go scout for another spot. To think turkey hunting is only in the woods is also a mistake. So many people think they have to kill that bird right now, but that's not true. On public ground your worried someone else will get him, so what, they bought a license too. Have confidence in your ability to find and kill birds.
Example: My buddy and I were on a very tough bird that wouldn't move. We decided to pull clear out of the plot. We were driving down the road looking at possible new areas. I saw a yard sale and decided to pull in because I saw some antiques ( I'm a collector ). So we strike up a conversation with these locals and I buy a couple small things. They want to know if we done any good hunting (keep in mind we have out of state tags ) and we share our stories. Then one of the guys says you should go down here to BIlly Bob road (fictional) there's a bunch of turkeys down there and no body hunts it, they don't even know the National Forest comes up on the back side. So I get out my phone and check "OnX Hunt" and bam he's right. So away we go and mostly we just scout, but we actually see a bird on the road. The next trip down we hunt that spot and kill two birds. It's now one of our regular stops. The next day we went back on the old hung up bird and killed him right off the roost. All on public land.
Quote from: CALLM2U on February 20, 2020, 04:15:36 PM
It goes without saying that every situation is different, however, it's hard for me to walk away from a gobbling turkey. If he shuts up when he connects with those hens, and I can hear another turkey gobbling, I very well may leave him and go chase the other one.
If he still continues to gobble, then I would try to circle around and intercept them (if I know where they're going) or try to pick a fight with the hens.
This for me.
I'd also call it "walk and kill" as opposed to "run and gun"!!!
My brother's FIL killed many many gobblers before he died. He told my brother if the gobbler sounded very interested, but walked away with live hens, he would stay put and kill him when he made it back around to check on that hen from the morning. I have done that on small pieces of land. I vote for the go back and check on him crowd-if there are enough birds in the area that your odds are good of striking one. If not, I would stay put. Later in the season, I would also be more likely to stay put as I assume the hens will likely head off earlier. Just depends on the geography of the tract too.
Quote from: dirt road ninja on February 19, 2020, 06:13:20 AM
Once I find one, I try to stay with them until one of us makes a mistake. If I lose tabs on him then I'll go look for another, but it's hard for me to leave a bird to find a bird.
This was going to be my answer - if he goes the other direction and completely shuts down and leaves me with no idea where he's at or where he's going I will back off, try to find another bird, and possibly come back to the area later. If he's with a hen moving or stationary but still announcing his presence either to me, her, or crows I will try and re position to come at him from another angle or slip in closer until something happens.
The only time I'm leaving a bird that I know his location is if he's positioned himself deep into a property I do not have access to.
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Western turkeys move more call more, eastern turkeys move less call less, western turkeys are good for run and gun hunting
Just for the record. I am not a fan of "Run and Gun". Prefer more of a silent and methodical approach.
Here in North Ga I stay put most of the time . Very seldom does moving around profit me.
Back in the day when I started turkey hunting there was no such thing as "Run and Gun". I'm neither running as opposed to walking nor gunning unless the opportunity presented itself. Thus I always called it "Walking and Calling"...same thing but less pizzazz with the today's younger hunters regarding the nomenclature!! If I had a tom gobbling well but he off and left me I assumed one of a couple things...1) he was off with a hen(s) or 2) he was headed for a strut zone. In either event, I would canvass the area for a bird that wanted to play the game but would always return to that spot a couple hours later. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.
Thanks for all the responses guys. I appreciate all the info!
An old man told me that if a bird honors your call with a gobble , at some point during that day he will show up. I have sat tight and took a nap only to be waken up by a gobbler gobbling , drumming or crunching leaves coming in.
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 27, 2020, 08:44:04 AM
An old man told me that if a bird honors your call with a gobble , at some point during that day he will show up. I have sat tight and took a nap only to be waken up by a gobbler gobbling , drumming or crunching leaves coming in.
I think this true, but I do not have the patience to wait him out. I also think for this to work that you need to be silent and lay off the calls, another thing I find hard to do.
Quote from: eggshell on February 27, 2020, 10:05:01 AM
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 27, 2020, 08:44:04 AM
An old man told me that if a bird honors your call with a gobble , at some point during that day he will show up. I have sat tight and took a nap only to be waken up by a gobbler gobbling , drumming or crunching leaves coming in.
I think this true, but I do not have the patience to wait him out. I also think for this to work that you need to be silent and lay off the calls, another thing I find hard to do.
I agree. Patience is not my strong suit.
I go find another and will come back and check on him later in the day when possible.
How much land do you have to hunt??? If your on private land you own or somebody s land ultimately you run into fences or boundary s,,the average guy can walk 3 miles an hour.
Unless your a land baron or on public land with no competition your only going to run and gun so long.
If I get a bird to answer that's my shot for the next three hours.
I can sit still in one place for a LONG time in the woods. It's paid off for me. I can be happy watching song birds or rodents or most anything. It's amazing how much life there is around you if you're able to be still and just look around. My ability to do that just amazes my hunting buddy!
If I hear one gobble on the roost at first light, I hit him with maby couple clucks, right at the end of his gobble...try to cut him off. If he comes right back, that a good thing. If he does not, wait till he gobbles again and cut him off with that cluck. That all I will do when working him...he heard that cluck you can be sure of that. Now, when he hits the ground and gobbles I will again cut him off with that cluck, and a sweet burr at the end. Then I shut up....wait and see what happens. Many times he will start getting closer...game on. Shut up...let him keep coming and be sure to get gun up in his direction. If times goes by, scratch in leaves lightly....no calling. Just hold tight see if he still coming...he knows about where you are at but not exactly....remember you cut him off at the end of that gobble....he heard it while he was gobbling but not to the point exactly where...but he coming to find you. You in the drivers seat at this time. Only cluck one time or purr one time...best to have a mouth call at this time so no movement at all. Many times I have had them show up 20-30 yds out all of a sudden looking where you are at....he knows you are in the area but you have not tipped your hand at exactly where...understand? Killed many birds using this tactic and will also work late in the morning when hens have left them to go to nests....they all alone and here that cluck.purr and come looking....seldom use any other call except the cluck and purr and scratching in leaves...deadly tactic.
Quote from: Uncle Tom on March 06, 2020, 11:24:22 AM
If I hear one gobble on the roost at first light, I hit him with maby couple clucks, right at the end of his gobble...try to cut him off. If he comes right back, that a good thing. If he does not, wait till he gobbles again and cut him off with that cluck. That all I will do when working him...he heard that cluck you can be sure of that. Now, when he hits the ground and gobbles I will again cut him off with that cluck, and a sweet burr at the end. Then I shut up....wait and see what happens. Many times he will start getting closer...game on. Shut up...let him keep coming and be sure to get gun up in his direction. If times goes by, scratch in leaves lightly....no calling. Just hold tight see if he still coming...he knows about where you are at but not exactly....remember you cut him off at the end of that gobble....he heard it while he was gobbling but not to the point exactly where...but he coming to find you. You in the drivers seat at this time. Only cluck one time or purr one time...best to have a mouth call at this time so no movement at all. Many times I have had them show up 20-30 yds out all of a sudden looking where you are at....he knows you are in the area but you have not tipped your hand at exactly where...understand? Killed many birds using this tactic and will also work late in the morning when hens have left them to go to nests....they all alone and here that cluck.purr and come looking....seldom use any other call except the cluck and purr and scratching in leaves...deadly tactic.
Very good advice... I can absolutely see how this will work and I plan on using it this season. That's an issue I've always had calling to them... I know those suckers can absolutely pin point exactly where that sound came from.
It helps knowing the everyday cycle of the turkeys in the particular area you are hunting. Can you pattern them?
Merriams can be in one canyon one day and a mile or 2 away the next. They may roost in a group of trees once and not return for a week...or even the remainder of the season if pressured. In this case they may be nearly impossible to pattern. Sitting in one spot in areas where turkey density is super low and they are mobile can be very frustrating!
On lightly hunted private land in Nebraska the same turkeys may roost in the same exact trees, move to strutting grounds during the day, and return to the same trees or tree each night to roost. It's obviously pretty easy to figure out how to pattern birds in the 2nd scenario. It may be to your advantage to intercept them after they fly down...especially if you know the route they often take to their strutting and feeding grounds. I've found that they can be somewhat spooky when returning to their roosting trees...and sometimes decoys set up near their trees may not work....or they may work one day and not the next.
The best advice I can give is to be observant of turkey behavior. If something doesn't work be willing to change things up. This often means thinking outside the box.
I been hunting public land since the late 1980's. I find most of my birds roosted near private land except on huge tracts of national and state forest.You'll find as the season progresses most of the birds will start to move to private after fly down. The ones that don't usually go silent.
I've read on this forum that turkeys don't know boundaries but in this situation I beg to differ. Most will plant themselves in this private land and not come back to public til roost time. They may answer your calls but I feel that is an attempt to draw the unseen hen out. Sitting tight on these birds and trying to wait for them to come in is futile as I have tried on numerous occasions. Early in the season you may be able to do it but not after the 1st week or so.
If I am unsuccessful at flydown and don't have anything going 1st 2 hours I'm on the move. Either to a new area or over to the next ridge line or valley trying to strike up a Tom as I move slowly and quietly along.
Paulmyr --ringneck Pheasants learn to do the same thing, these birds have some serious survival skills
Quote from: eggshell on March 22, 2020, 04:21:32 PM
Paulmyr --ringneck Pheasants learn to do the same thing, these birds have some serious survival skills
Yup. Been there done that too.
I agree on the private/public. We hunted a place where we always setup between the roost and private land. It ended badly for a few birds.
Quote from: Paulmyr on March 22, 2020, 04:11:01 PM
I been hunting public land since the late 1980's. I find most of my birds roosted near private land except on huge tracts of national and state forest.You'll find as the season progresses most of the birds will start to move to private after fly down. The ones that don't usually go silent.
I've read on this forum that turkeys don't know boundaries but in this situation I beg to differ. Most will plant themselves in this private land and not come back to public til roost time. They may answer your calls but I feel that is an attempt to draw the unseen hen out. Sitting tight on these birds and trying to wait for them to come in is futile as I have tried on numerous occasions. Early in the season you may be able to do it but not after the 1st week or so.
If I am unsuccessful at flydown and don't have anything going 1st 2 hours I'm on the move. Either to a new area or over to the next ridge line or valley trying to strike up a Tom as I move slowly and quietly along.
Definitely see that... obviously they're gonna go where there's less pressure.
I spent a whole week before just trying to pull a turkey off of private onto public. Your right... it went nowhere... which is why I made a rule that I'm gonna do everything I can to not hunt a turkey on the border of private. If that's the case.
Quote from: Paulmyr on March 22, 2020, 04:11:01 PM
I been hunting public land since the late 1980's. I find most of my birds roosted near private land except on huge tracts of national and state forest.You'll find as the season progresses most of the birds will start to move to private after fly down. The ones that don't usually go silent.
I've read on this forum that turkeys don't know boundaries but in this situation I beg to differ. Most will plant themselves in this private land and not come back to public til roost time. They may answer your calls but I feel that is an attempt to draw the unseen hen out. Sitting tight on these birds and trying to wait for them to come in is futile as I have tried on numerous occasions. Early in the season you may be able to do it but not after the 1st week or so.
Totally agree. Often, trying to call birds off of a property you can't hunt onto the one you can is a frustrating experience. Every so often, however, I have had gobblers come from as far away as I could hear them off of adjacent properties. This is especially true with adjacent properties that are not being hunted for whatever reason. Un-hunted turkeys tend to be pretty easy to call, even from long distances, if you let them know you are there. (and there is nothing more rewarding that calling a gobbler off of a property that is owned by folks that don't allow hunting and don't like hunters :) )
I have also had instances where firing up a distant gobbler like that made one start responding nearby that had been silent and apparently uninterested until the competition spoke up.
Bottom line is that when you are trying to find a responsive gobbler and he is not on the property you are hunting as far as you can tell, do not discount attempting to lure one off of other areas within earshot. Every once in a while they might surprise you and decide to come take a look.
Ben Rodgers Lee coined the phrase "If I could, would breath life back into him, and hunt him again tomorrow."
Quote from: Screaming6x6 on March 04, 2020, 08:46:11 AM
I go find another and will come back and check on him later in the day when possible.
This