This hunting season I have called in an inordinate number of predators, and am noticing that the birds are far more quiet this season... Sometimes vocal on the roost, but I can only get the occasional mid or late morning gobble.
I have now gone 5 hunts in a row (at different properties), in which I get a bird gobbling, and end up calling in a coyote (or coyotes) or a bobcat. This past hunt, I called in coyotes at properties some distance away from each other... Both times birds gobbled once tentatively, and again a bit closer, only to call in a yote, and have them run off in the direction of the gobble.
Driving by residential areas close to where I hunt, they are very vocal, and still with hens at noon (which is late in the season to still be with hens so late in the morning).
Earlier in the season, the hens were quiet vocal, but now I only hear them at first light. I rarely hear a gobble after they hit the ground... I have watched birds at a distance (with hens), and they go into strut as soon as I call... Had one close enough that I could hear him spitting and drumming every time I called... Surprisingly, he was almost 100 yards away when I could first hear him spitting/drumming (I would have thought he was much closer by the sound). But he never gobbled, nor did the hens make a sound.
Thus far this season I have called in:
2 foxes
3 bobcats
8 separate occasions have called in coyotes (or pairs of coyotes).
Most of these critters have gotten very close, and one pair of coyotes rushed me... Had a bird working on my left side of the ridge, and 2 yotes came up on my right. They were about 20 yards away from me (no decoy), and in an attempt to scare them off without scaring off the turkey I tried to have my hand to frighten them. I suppose they saw the motion of my hand and thought it was food...
They both rushed at me full speed, and I stood up and could have poked the lead dog with m gun barrel as he came to a skidding stop... The dogs took off down the same side as the bird, at which time I could hear the alarm put of the bird, and he took off (as in flight).
I went back towards the car and called again (about a quarter mile away), and those same two dogs came in for a second look (although not nearly as close). Both these dogs were very fat dogs.
I am not hunting a large population of birds, but my guess is that the drought we are facing is putting extra predator pressure on the turkeys... And they are far more quiet than normal... Any thoughts?
Hunting quiet birds takes out a lot of the fun for me, and increases the difficulty level of mid-morning hunting (which is often my only time to go). But I do feel it is likely that the predators are what is making the birds so quiet...
Save a turkey, kill them coyotes when you can :character0029:
Start shooting em. Took one this morning. Had one come in Friday morning and this guy cut off a couple of birds and the came to my calls.
tripple "S" shoot,shovel and shut up
I had to re scroll up to make sure this wasnt an old post that I may have posted. This same thing has been happening to me for about 10 yrs now and there is no doubt that it has affected the calling habits of the birds in my area. I have had to jump at a coyote to chase him away before he could pounce on me.
Second thought. And maybe I am crazy. But obviously young birds learn from mature birds. So if the mature birds never make a peep its only a short time before even young birds do not make a sound. This is what its like by me.
I kill every coyote I call in if I possibly can; I feel like my chances of calling a bird into gun range with a coyote out there running around are slim to none. I am guessing foxes and bobcats are not going to be in season where you are if it is like it is here. I agree with your theory about an abundance of predators and quiet birds on the ground. I also think the presence of a lot of predators is more likely to keep the birds in those open areas where they can see a long ways. It doesn't make them easy to call either.
Remember the turkey sounds on varmint hunts.
im with the others that say kill the coyotes. a couple ruined hunts every so often is better than multiple ruined seasons , at least in my humble opinion.
Quote from: owlhoot on April 19, 2015, 01:36:31 PM
Save a turkey, kill them coyotes when you can :character0029:
Kill the coyotes when they give you a chance.
this year in Missouri, you can finally do it again legally. if one comes looking for dinner it getting fed.
federal HW 7"s ;D
payback for spooking toms all these years.
Quote from: Marc on April 19, 2015, 01:29:25 PM
This hunting season I have called in an inordinate number of predators, and am noticing that the birds are far more quiet this season... Sometimes vocal on the roost, but I can only get the occasional mid or late morning gobble.
I have now gone 5 hunts in a row (at different properties), in which I get a bird gobbling, and end up calling in a coyote (or coyotes) or a bobcat. This past hunt, I called in coyotes at properties some distance away from each other... Both times birds gobbled once tentatively, and again a bit closer, only to call in a yote, and have them run off in the direction of the gobble.
Driving by residential areas close to where I hunt, they are very vocal, and still with hens at noon (which is late in the season to still be with hens so late in the morning).
Earlier in the season, the hens were quiet vocal, but now I only hear them at first light. I rarely hear a gobble after they hit the ground... I have watched birds at a distance (with hens), and they go into strut as soon as I call... Had one close enough that I could hear him spitting and drumming every time I called... Surprisingly, he was almost 100 yards away when I could first hear him spitting/drumming (I would have thought he was much closer by the sound). But he never gobbled, nor did the hens make a sound.
Thus far this season I have called in:
2 foxes
3 bobcats
8 separate occasions have called in coyotes (or pairs of coyotes).
Most of these critters have gotten very close, and one pair of coyotes rushed me... Had a bird working on my left side of the ridge, and 2 yotes came up on my right. They were about 20 yards away from me (no decoy), and in an attempt to scare them off without scaring off the turkey I tried to have my hand to frighten them. I suppose they saw the motion of my hand and thought it was food...
They both rushed at me full speed, and I stood up and could have poked the lead dog with m gun barrel as he came to a skidding stop... The dogs took off down the same side as the bird, at which time I could hear the alarm put of the bird, and he took off (as in flight).
I went back towards the car and called again (about a quarter mile away), and those same two dogs came in for a second look (although not nearly as close). Both these dogs were very fat dogs.
I am not hunting a large population of birds, but my guess is that the drought we are facing is putting extra predator pressure on the turkeys... And they are far more quiet than normal... Any thoughts?
Hunting quiet birds takes out a lot of the fun for me, and increases the difficulty level of mid-morning hunting (which is often my only time to go). But I do feel it is likely that the predators are what is making the birds so quiet...
this is exactly why I started hunting coyotes. Saw a bob cat today, if i had been on my farm instead of public land I would've rolled his azz right in that creek he was walking by. I killed a bunch of coyotes a about 5 or 6 years ago and didn't even see or here a coyote on that place for over a year. They are starting to make a comeback though. i don't shoot foxes, not yet anyways.
No doubt when the predators are around the birds will be quiet as they are skiddish to begin with throw a predator in the mix and they are to smart to openly give there location to a coyote or bob cat which definitely ruins hunts so like said by others kill them when you can don't let them go only to possibly breed and ruin future hunts maybe even seasons
I am seeing same thing happen where I hunt. Had a nice Tom coming in at 100 yards and coyote rushed him this weekend. Called one in last week on another property....no drought here just too many predators.
Opening morning today. Birds were roosted last night, I watched em fly down n head right to me. Suddenly alarm putts. This one won't try that again
I had a bobcat and a black bear come in this year. I had a tom and two hens strolling towards me on a logging road about 30 yards from me when the bear came five feet from me...spooking the birds off.
Quote from: owlhoot on April 19, 2015, 01:36:31 PM
Save a turkey, kill them coyotes when you can :character0029:
:agreed:
I shoot every coyote in range with whatever weapon I have. Vocal birds are more closely related to population density and competition than to predator population in my opinion. I do believe it has some effect though. Birds with hens just don't need to gobble.
Yotes don't do that much damage. More birds are lost to racoons than anything else (eggs).
Quote from: dejake on June 25, 2015, 10:40:37 AM
Yotes don't do that much damage. More birds are lost to racoons than anything else (eggs).
I tend to agree. Coons, skunks, hawks etc. are rough on the population. I still kill every yote I get a chance to though. Look at a yotes front foot compared to a bobcat. Pretty easy to see who's better equipped to hunt and kill. Not saying yotes don't.
As far as silent birds caused by predation. I don't buy into it much. Sure if a gobbler or hen sees a coyote or other predator their probably going to be silent for a short time, but then their going to go back to being turkeys, who are vocal critters at times.
http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,56165.0/topicseen.html
Shot a yote this year while calling to a tom. Glad MO is allowing coyote's to be taken during turkey season again.
The birds on and around our property seem to be pretty quiet this year and we are seeing more yotes
and bobcats than ever before. I plan on taking up trapping to help out.
Op asked for thoughts. Here's mine.
These type discussions always boil down to folks who don't believe any kind of pressure affect turkeys and those that do.
Turkeys are conditioned to response just like most all animals. You kick the crap outta the family dog when you get home from work everyday and pretty soon the family dog stops meeting you at the front yard when you get home. We had all sorts of animals when I was a kid. The goats would bully the turkeys off scratch feed so I'd sling a rock or two at the billy to run him off. After a while I could simply swing my arm in motion (without a rock) and old billy would haul butt to the far end of the pasture to hide in the woods. May be a stretch for some but a billy goat has a brain about 10-15 times bigger than a turkey.
I kill a yote or two every spring coming to my calls. No doubt in my mind what they intend to do with the turkey they expect to find. Hard for me to believe they would respond if they haven't already had a taste somewhere beforehand. When I see bobcat tracks on a tract of land more often than not the turkey hunting will be dead as a hammer. May not be what other's experience but that's what I've noticed over the years here in upstate SC.
And hunting pressure, well, where I hunt on public land (National forest) I'd say turkeys see far more hunters in the month of April than they do other predators. You can judge how I feel about hunting pressure having a silencing effect on some turkeys. And before some knucklehead begins to tell me it's just my not being able to call etc., I've killed a limit of 5 here in said public land (and a little private land in the past) each of the last 20 years.
TTT sounds like More guys need to trap
I called in a giant boar black bear a couple years ago here in Colo while turkey calling. I had to wave my arms so the bear didn't run me over....it was a bit spooky! You never know what will show up!
I have historically avoided shooting the coyotes given that I try to have respect for all wildlife and I have a hard time shooting things that I don't eat or have another use for, and there is always the hope that I can strike up the bird again. That being said, every time a coyote has come to my calling the turkey took off never to come back. At some point I want to protect my hunt. I'm leaning towards pulling the trigger from now on and eliminating the problem.
Good call Timmer. We are starting to see a lot more bobcats recently where I hunt. I read through this thread and agree with thoughts about egg predation. Coyote get some too, but I really think the bobcats have a hay day with poults and bigger birds too. We have no season on bobcats in Indiana, so right now it seems to be a growing cat population and a shrinking bird population. I talked to a high up DNR employee about this issue at a recent forestry meeting and made a pitch for a season. Indiana turkey population has peaked according to DNR and obviously the bobcats are increasing. Are Bobcats a known big time turkey problem for you all that have a bunch of them?
In north missouri I believe the bobcats add to the problem, had a 40 acre or so woodlot next to pastures and an old feedlot that always had turkeys for over 10 years we had been hunting it. The bobcats made their home there and very soon no more turkey were seen in or around the place.
Now i am not saying they killed a bunch but the turkeys moved on.
Quote from: guesswho on June 26, 2015, 02:42:59 PM
Quote from: dejake on June 25, 2015, 10:40:37 AM
Yotes don't do that much damage. More birds are lost to racoons than anything else (eggs).
I tend to agree. Coons, skunks, hawks etc. are rough on the population. I still kill every yote I get a chance to though. Look at a yotes front foot compared to a bobcat. Pretty easy to see who's better equipped to hunt and kill. Not saying yotes don't.
As far as silent birds caused by predation. I don't buy into it much. Sure if a gobbler or hen sees a coyote or other predator their probably going to be silent for a short time, but then their going to go back to being turkeys, who are vocal critters at times.
x2
I am definitely in agreement that turkeys don't, and will not tolerate a bobcat in the same area. I am of the opinion that they just relocate to a safer place. I have seen this first hand on an awesome piece of land in the TX Panhandle. No bobcats, nor signs of bobcats = Lots and lots of turkeys......A bobcat shows up = turkeys disappear......Remove bobcat = Turkeys return. Just my 2 cents. Good Huntin'
In the areas I hunt crows ,coons ,skunks are the top egg predators. Bobcats and to a lesser degree coyotes for adults mostly hens. I shoot every nest/turkey predator I can. Bobcats are especially bad during nesting time once they start killing hens they can ruin a years hatch killing hens on the nest. Ive had coyotes come charging in on a gobbler I was working this usually shuts him up for a while if not the rest of the day but he was right back in the same area gobbling the next morning.They deal with predators everyday its part of life.
Where I hunt here in Colo there are coyotes, bobcats, mtn lions, and bears....lots of predators! In fact, 4 years ago I called in a chocolate phased black bear. I had to wave my arms and yell to keep him from running me over. He was close enough I could see foam in his mouth! The turkeys here are super quiet. They likely get eaten if they make much noise! They sometimes gobble around an hour before daylight on the roost and don't make a squeak once they hit the ground. It's a challenge trying to find gobblers in country with trees when they don't make noise. I pretty much look for scratch marks and sign because they are so quiet.
Quote from: THattaway on August 11, 2015, 02:31:18 PM
Op asked for thoughts. Here's mine.
These type discussions always boil down to folks who don't believe any kind of pressure affect turkeys and those that do.
Turkeys are conditioned to response just like most all animals. You kick the crap outta the family dog when you get home from work everyday and pretty soon the family dog stops meeting you at the front yard when you get home. We had all sorts of animals when I was a kid. The goats would bully the turkeys off scratch feed so I'd sling a rock or two at the billy to run him off. After a while I could simply swing my arm in motion (without a rock) and old billy would haul butt to the far end of the pasture to hide in the woods. May be a stretch for some but a billy goat has a brain about 10-15 times bigger than a turkey.
I kill a yote or two every spring coming to my calls. No doubt in my mind what they intend to do with the turkey they expect to find. Hard for me to believe they would respond if they haven't already had a taste somewhere beforehand. When I see bobcat tracks on a tract of land more often than not the turkey hunting will be dead as a hammer. May not be what other's experience but that's what I've noticed over the years here in upstate SC.
And hunting pressure, well, where I hunt on public land (National forest) I'd say turkeys see far more hunters in the month of April than they do other predators. You can judge how I feel about hunting pressure having a silencing effect on some turkeys. And before some knucklehead begins to tell me it's just my not being able to call etc., I've killed a limit of 5 here in said public land (and a little private land in the past) each of the last 20 years.
[/quote
]I to hunt the SNF in the upstate. The last few years I've noticed, less sign of birds in areas where I found birds in the past and they are very quite. Expanded my hunt area last year. May of heard one turkey gobble. There has always been a lot of hunting pressure in these areas since I started hunting turkey. Why would they go almost completely silent now? My thought is there's less birds and more coyotes.
We need more trappers but it's a large money investment to get started and a larger time investment to do it. Hides aren't worth anything in my area other than Bobcat and Otter. In Missouri last year they made it legal to shoot Coyotes during Spring Turkey season with legal Turkey hunting methods and a unfilled tag in your pocket. If its legal where you hunt I would suggest you shoot every Coyote that comes to investigate your call.
We have a year round season on Hogs and Coyotes, even night hunting. But not on public land . You have to use what's legal for the game in season on public land, turkey season its a shotgun.
Quote from: Ozarks Hillbilly on March 25, 2017, 11:47:37 AM
We need more trappers but it's a large money investment to get started and a larger time investment to do it. Hides aren't worth anything in my area other than Bobcat and Otter. In Missouri last year they made it legal to shoot Coyotes during Spring Turkey season with legal Turkey hunting methods and a unfilled tag in your pocket. If its legal where you hunt I would suggest you shoot every Coyote that comes to investigate your call.
It has always been a lot of fun blasting the coyotes :icon_thumright:
I know the frustration with these cards, I've called in many real early in the morning and I haven't shot any of them although we have come very close. I just don't believe in in shooting Kyle because I like dogs, and it's too much like shooting a dog to me in it, so I don't do it, and I wouldn't shoot a fox, either. I'm talking about coyote parently this thing doesn't I'm talking into this thing
Quote from: drenalinld on June 24, 2015, 10:46:54 PM
I shoot every coyote in range with whatever weapon I have. Vocal birds are more closely related to population density and competition than to predator population in my opinion. I do believe it has some effect though. Birds with hens just don't need to gobble.
. I will not shoot a coyote, but I will shoot a big foot, or a grizzly, to protect myself.
Quote from: High plains drifter on April 04, 2017, 01:43:54 AM
I will not shoot a coyote, but I will shoot a big foot, or a grizzly, to protect myself.
If you shoot a sasquatch, you'd better have a shovel... I hear the fines are ridiculous.
I kill every single coyote I get a crack at.
Shot this one in the middle of a clear cut. Birds gobbling the whole time. Actually I shot four times and the birds gobbled after every shot. I think they were cheering me on. :happy0064:
I think if you care about turkeys you should be killing every predator that comes to your call. They're coming for a reason - to eat a turkey. Or should I say another turkey. They've probably done ate a few, possibly quite a few.