I have a 7 year old son that weighs around 43 pounds. Is there any way I can find a light enough 12 gauge load that he can handle it in my T/C Encore? Or do I need to lay out the money for a .410 and TSS?
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Keep the shots close and use a win AA trap load with #7.5. At 43 lbs you might need some sticks to hold the front of the gun up. You can add weight inside the buttstock if possible to attenuate the recoil as well. I have a pic somewhere of a trap load on a turkey splatter target. I'll try to locate
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Here ya go. Was on the top of my pile. This is with a briley improved modified for invector plus. 20 yards. A handload trap load to duplicate win AA at 1200 fps 1-1/8 oz #7.5(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230222/095bf8774317cc2c842290fab95d12f9.jpg)
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Quote from: Teamblue on February 22, 2023, 08:01:04 AM
Here ya go. Was on the top of my pile. This is with a briley improved modified for invector plus. 20 yards. A handload trap load to duplicate win AA at 1200 fps 1-1/8 oz #7.5(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230222/095bf8774317cc2c842290fab95d12f9.jpg)
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Nice! Thank you. I also see Federal makes a 1 oz. load of #6. That could be a decent load I'd imagine.
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Would probably work and cheap enough to do a lot of testing. Winchester also has 1oz trap loads that pattern just like the heavier loads. A box will run around $12-15/25
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Federal makes a lighter recoiling "Top gun" 12 ga. load 1 1/8oz at 1145fps, #7.5 shot
I shoot these in an old gun and they pattern a little better than the Win.AA, your gun may pattern different.
in an full fixed choke pattern is good a little past 30yds, about where energy falls off
15yds pattern is about like a soccer ball
I tried 1 oz #6 loads, the target loads with hard lead #7.5 shot will have a lot better patterns than the #6's,
the 6's will lose pattern density way before the 7.5's lost pattern or penetration, as long as he keeps it on the head/neck
Quote from: crow on February 22, 2023, 09:13:57 AM
I tried 1 oz #6 loads, the target loads with hard lead #7.5 shot will have a lot better patterns than the #6's,
the 6's will lose pattern density way before the 7.5's lost pattern or penetration, as long as he keeps it on the head/neck
Excellent info. I was wondering about that trade-off....pattern density with 6's vs penetration with 7.5's.
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Btw, Good luck to your son!
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Thanks guys! I have a little bit of a hard time getting on turkeys every year myself, so it's going to be even more of a challenge with him. I hope the Good Lord blesses us with an opportunity. That would be wonderful!
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Quote from: crow on February 22, 2023, 09:13:57 AM
I tried 1 oz #6 loads, the target loads with hard lead #7.5 shot will have a lot better patterns than the #6's,
the 6's will lose pattern density way before the 7.5's lost pattern or penetration, as long as he keeps it on the head/neck
^^^^^This (225 pellets in an ounce of 6s vs 393 for 1.125 oz 7.5s)
Quote from: Genehalteman on February 22, 2023, 07:18:09 AM
I have a 7 year old son that weighs around 43 pounds. Is there any way I can find a light enough 12 gauge load that he can handle it in my T/C Encore? Or do I need to lay out the money for a .410 and TSS?
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Here's some thoughts on recoil, these 12 ga.1oz or 1 1/8oz may be what are light loads for adults.
They are not going to be light loads for a 50lb youngster. I think your going to be pushing it with recoil for him.
I grew up on a farm, started small game hunting with the "men" with a BB gun when really little. no mentoring program back then, you hunted with a shotgun on your property before legal age when you were ready.
I hunted with a .410, when I was really little, loved it. then around 8 or 9 tried my grandfathers very lightweight 20ga. , it had more felt recoil than some 12 gauges, didn't love it so much. A couple years later my brother got the .410 and I was "promoted" to a single shot 12. By then had no issue going to the 12.
That was a long time ago, and I can still remember negative thoughts on that lightweight 20, I can't remember any negative thoughts on shooting the single 12 at just a couple years older, about 11.
I was bigger that 50lbs, I would say don't rush the 12. if you get him a .410 with tss you may end up slipping an extra recoil pad on it to lengthen trigger pull and use it your self.
Worst thing you can do is start them young ones with a 12ga, here in WI it used to be a different story as kids had to be 12 before they could hunt, also will depend on the kid and their shooting experience, youngest we have out is 10-year-olds in our Learn to Hunt Programs (there is no age requirement in state) and I had one young girl that was about 80lbs, but she was used to shooting 12 trap, I found some light 12ga game loads, made sure her bird was close enough to kill and that's all we needed.
This year will have a buddy's 8yr old daughter out on her 1st hunt, she shoots a .22LR for practice and her dad did buy a .410 and TSS for her and will pass that down to her younger brother when time comes. For as cheap as you can buy these single shots that would be my advice.
Also "improved" a Caldwell Treepod for ground blind use, completely holds the gun and takes up some recoil.
MK M GOBL
Good advice "crow" and "GOBL". Thanks! You are right about the single shot .410s being cheap enough. I definitely don't want him gun shy by starting out too heavy. He shoots his BB gun and my .22 for practice but the 12 gauge still would possibly scare him after the first shot.
As an additional note I think hearing protection is just as important for keeping new shooters from getting gun shy.
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Thats a neat gun rest! Keep in mind that a 7/8 oz tss load out of a 5 lb .410 will recoil more than a 7/8 oz load out of an 7.5lb 12 gauge if thrown at same velocity. Not sure how a 1 oz 12 gauge load stacks up against a 7/8 oz 410 tss load. Someone probably has the data. We are involved with a youth trap league. There are some small kids there. Not 43 lbs small but little fellas nonetheless. They seem to handle 7/8 oz 20 gauge loads well, and a few shoot 1 oz. Usually 2 rounds or 50 shots at a time. The biggest problem they have is lack of arm strength to properly hold the gun up. Turkey hunting with one shot, resting on knees or rest is a little different.
I'm all for buying new guns. Ask my wife. Wait, probably better if you didnt ask. If you go that route im sure your son will find it something special he can call his own.
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Found this box at Cabela's today. 1180 fps velocity. Going to do some testing with them. I'm going to attach an extendible bipod I have to the front sling stud of the T/C and put a check pad on the stock. If recoil still seems too stout I'm going to rig a little bag of shot or sand to hang on the sling stud of the bipod to keep the gun from bucking. Pretty sure I can make it manageable with some variation of that setup..
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Quote from: Genehalteman on February 25, 2023, 05:36:18 PM
Found this box at Cabela's today. 1180 fps velocity. Going to do some testing with them. I'm going to attach an extendible bipod I have to the front sling stud of the T/C and put a check pad on the stock. If recoil still seems too stout I'm going to rig a little bag of shot or sand to hang on the sling stud of the bipod to keep the gun from bucking. Pretty sure I can make it manageable with some variation of that setup..
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Forgot to attach picture
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Let him bust some stationary clays with that and he wont even notice the recoil.
For the little bit of money I'd try some of the Topgun 1145fps 1 1/8th oz shells in your gun, the slower speed and more shot might give you a denser core pattern = a few more yards, recoil should be fairly close to what you just picked up
Even better, got to looking around in my ammo drawer because I knew I had a lot of 12 gauge stuff and discovered that I have a few boxes of this stuff! 1-1/8oz at 1,050fps. Actually excited to put some of these loads through the gun.
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That might be the best yet, does it say on the box hard shot or high antimony shot
Not specifically anywhere on the box. Online I'm finding that they say they use hardened lead shot in their target loads.
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FYI; Lead 7.5s are capable of 1.25" of penetration in ballistic gel to the following distances when launched at the following speeds:
1300 fps 38 yds
1200 fps 35 yds
1050 fps 30 yds
Quote from: BandedSpur on February 27, 2023, 08:42:55 AM
FYI; Lead 7.5s are capable of 1.25" of penetration in ballistic gel to the following distances when launched at the following speeds:
1300 fps 38 yds
1200 fps 35 yds
1050 fps 30 yds
Thanks for that real-world information!
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