As the days go by I am forever more and more missing our sacred spring ritual that is turkey season, I reminisce with photographs and think about what an all out cluster this whole deal has become.
when and where did everything go so wrong?
Before I get started just a fair warning this is just one mans rant who is bored of his summer routine of eating, sleeping, working, and repeating waiting on deer season to patch me over to the the spring 2022 season. Feel free to comment your thoughts, call me an idiot, I don't really care.
Where do I start?
Slams-Grand Slam, Canadian Slam, Mexican Slam, US Super Slam, Royal Slam, World Slam, now I've seen posts on the "pop gun slam", the "cullinary slam", the "Single Season Southern Slam", The "Florida Slam", the 'Sooner Slam", "Mississippi River Slam", I mean... c'mon where the heck do we draw the line? Why does everything need a title these days... every single one of these are man-made manufactured acheivments or goals are in essence just killing a turkey across a man made state/provincial line, or killing different subspecies within the boundaries of the same man made state lines. Why can't we all just be turkey hunters again? Why does it matter what state a turkey is from, is it truly a challenge for everyone doing these slams to step out of their comfort zone? Or is it just another desperate plea for attention and gratification from random strangers with similar interests on a Facebook turkey group.
US Super Slams- without a doubt the most popular slam now a days, it seems like every hunter on the internet or that I've met in my pursuit of the turkey at XYZ WMA folks almost immediately mention their quest for the super slam and are usually 6 states into the damn thing. Makes me wonder, what are your intentions or reasoning behind you chasing 49? Is it for you and your love for traveling and turkey hunting? or are you just hopping on the bandwagon of the latest and greatest trend in turkey hunting? Oh yeah, so Chasing 49... a clever name created by I'm assuming Keith Ott which has now been hijacked by several other groups. So far I have seen "Chasing the 49", "Finding 49", "98 Spur chaser", and several other names folks have come up with without much thought. I mean really? "Chasing THE 49"? How original lol. I know where those folks intentions and reasonings behind their slam lie, social media fame and attention grabbing are my guess.
To add onto it, this new 49 state craze has really put a lot of pressure on states that have never seen anything like it before, Rhode Island?? I can't even count on 2 hands the amount of folks I know who hunted there this year... why? Is RI that different from Connecticut? I wish for the days to return when a trip to a Texas ranch, or Florida outfitter was the cool thing to do in the turkey hunting world. Some may find this hypocritical of me to point out as I am inching up on the half way point on this thing, but I can assure you my intentions are pure, I'm not in it for social media fame, or monetary gain. The faint of heart, and those in it for the wrong reasons will give up, only the ones with determination will finish it. But I'd be lying if I didn't mention that the slam has lost a lot of appeal to me and this social media craze of it has dampened my passion and drive to complete this thing.
Money-There are a million things I could talk about in this section from high dollar chokes, to the expensive motion decoys, fancy camo, sponsorships and paid partnerships. But I'll stick to the Youtube/ social media game.
There are a few Youtube turkey hunters who I knows intentions are pure, and truly enjoy the hunt and the filming aspect of it. Example:The Bayside Legion in my opinion those guys are a class act, and great dudes.
One thing that absolutely irks me is the already established Youtube Hunting groups who saw the potential profit in the turkey hunting game, and decided to hop on the bandwagon and make that turkey money.
Examples:
Hushin-a group of western elk hunters who are based out of Utah who turned turkey profiteers after noticing the money to be made in turkey game.
Born & Raised Outdoors-Similar story to Hushin, a group of western big game hunters based out of Southern Oregon who also have recently seen the potential profit of our beloved turkey and are now cashing in.
Seek One-A group of hunters from Suburban Atlanta, whose primary efforts were on hunting trophy whitetails in the Atlanta Metro area, this past spring they decided to start doing "turkey tours" which in my opinion was solely to line their pockets with a little cash during their off season. Because, I mean why not? Everyone else is doing it, they might as well hop on and make that money while the gettin is good.
In short, its all about the money now a days. What a shame...
Killing a turkey is easy now?- If it seems like everyone is doing it, and killing turkeys now a days... well thats because it they are. With so many crutches out there now a days, from gobbler decoys, reaping, long range TSS shells, to OnX Hunt. It seems pretty easy. I wonder how many folks would be out on that public dirt if they'd had to go through a more traditional method of using a USGS Topo map coupled with a WMA boundary map rather than their handy dandy Onx Hunt app. How many dominant gobblers would be saved if it weren't for the use of decoys or reaping in the early season? Five years ago it was crazy to shoot a gobbler at 55 yards, today that is a lethal range with TSS. It is sad to think how many birds have been killed at 75+ yards, in my opinion and I believe I speak for every true turkey hunter out there killing a bird at that distance shallows the experience of the interaction with the bird, and defeats the point of turkey hunting. To fool that turkey into getting in close range, so many birds shot over bait now at excessive ranges with tungsten. Sure, you get your social media post... which is a lot of these folks goal. But did you really accomplish something? Also, how bout the former THP intern now running around with a "strutter helmet" on. Yes, you heard that right. This guy is running around Wisconsin with a gobbler decoy taped on his head. Fair chase? I think not. Good way to get shot? I'd say so. Crazy times we are living in...
Social media:In General- I might be starting to repeat myself at this point, but for those of you still reading bear with me. I could go on and on about this. But I'll try to keep it short. Let's start off by mentioning the facebook groups and the subreddit r/turkeyhunting these groups are filled with revealing information posted by locals and travelers alike about turkeys and turkey hunting at XYZ state or WMA. What the heck happened to turkey hunters being liars and keeping secrets? Why is everyone sharing information to random strangers online some even going as far to name the wma, county, or region they hunted in. Stupid if ya ask me. Loose lips sink ships. According to the internet looked as if every turkey hunter was in Maine, Tennessee, or Montana this past spring. And special thanks to the NWTF for hotspotting a specific Nevada WMA in their little turkey call video.
Also, the amount of ridiculous posts I have seen on the internet of people disrespecting dead animals is appaling, no wonder there are so many Anti's! One last thing, for christ's sake people please stop "spot swapping" with strangers on the internet. How shameful, Its one thing to send a buddy to a honey hole or spot you've killed in but c'mon people posting in a Facebook group with 50k people in it, "will trade New Mexico coordinates for Oklahoma coordinates", is just shallow and embarassing. This has got to stop, no wonder everyone just expects to show up in a new state and kill the first day.
Public Land- since when did it become cool to kill a turkey on public land rather than private land. A turkey on public is the exact same as a private land turkey, sure one may be more pressured and a bit more of a challenge but why is it now regarded as some mythical creature or more respected than a private bird? There are guys with well managed private lands getting in the truck heading over to their local national forest as its the trendy cool thing to do. Personally, I hunt about 90% public lands not by choice. If I had the access and financial means to be able to be hunting great private property, you'd never see me at a public gate again. I can only lay blame for this phenomenon to social media and groups such as The Hunting Public and Pinhoti Projject. Hope y'all enjoy all the new public land restrictions in a few southern states this coming season!
More Hunters, More Turkeys- where did this fallacy originate? I'm guessing with the NWTF in a push for more memberships sold. I do understand the logic that if there are more hunters state game agencies and conservation groups will receive more money. But, the resource already has enough strain as is. Not everyone can or should be a turkey hunter. I have never heard a Quail or Woodcock hunter state we need more hunters to increase the population. Perhaps we should take a step back and get involved, donate to NWTF or TFT, many states have an outdoor fund or habitat/turkey stamp you may optionally purchase, burning, stop baiting for deer in summer, habitat improvements. And may I dare suggest don't kill your limit of gobblers out the same block of woods- move on to another. In my opinion all these examples are more beneficial than bringing in new hunters. Just my opinion as an arm chair biologist.
And for the love of God, please quit saying "Thunder Chicken"
If you've made it this far, thanks for reading. Rant Over.
I belive you are preaching to the choir, lol. Youtube stinks. The biggest problem is between our legs. Too dang many peoples.
You make some good points. I especially like your take on public land , taking long shots on gobblers and the tech savvy coordinate swapers. Nauseating indeed.
OnX is by far the biggest "crutch" that I use, but I would love to see states start banning the use of technology like this to aid in hunting. Can it be enforced? Nope, but if it could be then I think you would start seeing a drop in harvest numbers. I'll also keep being hypocritical every time I step in the woods because I'm sure not giving it up until I have to.
What's wrong with "Thunder Chicken"?
I don't know about a few of the you tubers you named, but I pretty much agree with everything in your post. Honestly, our opinion is probably in the minority on such subjects. The common use of "if it's legal" is the popular argument. For me personally, that holds very little value when debating this subject. Remote control, mobile decoys that roll around in a field are legal in some states.....find a better argument than "if it's legal". Social media posts, YouTube videos, etc. that name specifics are a drain on the resource. It's irresponsible and damaging. I've been called arrogant, selfish, elitist, etc. for voicing such an opinion. So be it. Too much instant gratification, pressure, and the need for praise that comes along with much of social media. Technology is great, but it can be a dangerous tool as well. Just the simple fact of replacing the boots on the ground approach has changed the game drastically and I'd argue very little of it, if any, benefits wildlife. As you said, many will call you can idiot or other names, but at some point there has to be voices of concern and opposition or no limits will be set to where this goes. There are a good number that hold these same opinions, but I promise you, we are in the minority.
Very well said!
I've found it hilarious all the people making up "slams" so they can be the "first" at their self-designated slam.
You want to know how someone is chasing a US Super Slam? They will tell you!
The good ol' days of heading west to turkey hunt and rarely seeing local hunters....Those days are over. The elk YouTubers you named have made turkey hunting the cool thing to do out west now. The funny thing is some of those same YouTubers used to get offended when folks compared turkey to elk hunting...Now they have hopped on the turkey bandwagon to get those views and expand their brand ($$). Pretty much sell outs if you ask me, stick to what you know, ELK.
Easier to kill than its ever been. Has made turkey hunting lose its mystique and allure.
Social media is the devil. Can't believe what its helped turn turkey hunting into in just 2-3 years. The scary thing? Imagine what we could be faced with just 5 years from now!
Speaking of what we could be faced with in the future, those new public land restrictions! Already saw Alabama and Georgia seriously cut back on public land opportunity for spring 2022. That just sends displaced hunters elsewhere and sets off a chain reaction. Now other states have to combat the increases in public land pressure and face decreasing public land opportunity as well.
More Hunters, Less Public Land Hunting Opportunity is more like it. I couldn't live with myself if I knew I'd caused thousands of turkey hunters to lose so much opportunity by sending the masses to flood specific public lands. All for a little fame and dimes on the dollar. Like you said, even one of the key turkey organizations is now resorting to hot spotting specific public lands. Lovely!
I've never been less proud to be an avid turkey hunter. It is embarrassing what its turned into. I can't even travel now without being compared to YouTubers by the new travelers they've influenced.
Oh who am I kidding...We are going to save the wild turkey through social media and recruitment of more public land hunters!
I liked your rant. I lay all this crap at the alter of commercialism or more commonly known as the NWTF! They started this commercial crap in the late 80s -90s. If they'd had social media it would have happened faster. The NWTF officers aren't living in shacks in the woods boys!
I agree with most all of the comments made so far. The popularity of turkey hunting has increased significantly over the last couple of decades. Folks more and more are just discovering that turkey hunting is "a blast" once they try it. Fact is, it is addictive because of the turkey's breeding behavior and the resultant interactions a hunter can have with them. I know when I first experienced a gobbler coming to the call way back in the 1960's, a light bulb came on in my head that said,..."Wow, this is the coolest hunting experience I have ever had"....and I have never looked back. This from a guy that has had the opportunity to hunt most of the other western big game species and has experienced the attractions of hunting all of them. I suspect that realization of the unique thrill of hunting spring gobblers hits a lot of people once they try it. I think there are just tons more folks "discovering" spring gobbler hunting.
Yes, I could make additional comments on the things we all see are happening as the result of social media and the advent of YouTube and dollar signs getting in people's eyes. Like it or not, it is a reality that we all will have to adjust to. That particular horse has left the barn and is not getting put back in.
Here are a couple of additional observations for consideration:
While hunting opportunities for most other species of game (big game, in particular) are declining, turkey hunting opportunity has remained a constant pretty much across the country. Here in the west, if you want to hunt most of the big game species, you better be extremely lucky in drawing a tag,...or you better have a lot of money in the bank so you can buy yourself access to an animal. Conversely, to go turkey hunting, it is just a matter of buying an over-the-counter tag in most states. That situation, in itself, steers a lot of folks toward turkey hunting when it is the only "sure bet" to get to go hunting in the spring.
In addition, most turkey managers, up until very recently, have viewed wild turkeys as an abundant resource that could be hunted without much concern. Turkeys have a much greater reproductive potential than our typical mammalian game species, and for the most part have been managed based on that perspective. Three, four, or five-gobbler limits in the spring? You betcha! Shoot all the hen turkeys you want in the fall? Why worry? They will just replenish themselves anyway so let's just let hunters kill the sh*t out of them!
Bottom line is times have changed and we should all expect significant changes in wild turkey management strategies relating to hunting. If the issue of reproductive failure is not resolved soon, we can all expect more decisions like the one made in Oklahoma to spread to those areas of the country that are viewed to need it. The resultant wildfire that creates will send turkey hunters scurrying across the country to those areas not yet affected,...which over time will result in the same thing happening in those places.
Expect more reductions in season lengths and bag limits. As for nonresident hunting opportunity, expect limits to be set on nonresident hunter numbers and for those permits to be issued through drawings. Expect more and more public-land hunting to also be limited and permits to be allotted through draws, whether for residents or nonresidents.
Those kinds of changes, in themselves, will resolve some of the issues created by the social media exploitation of turkey hunting. It won't matter if the local YouTuber tells the world where the best public-land hunting spot is in Timbuktu. Permits are going to be limited,...and you will have to be one of the lucky fellows that draws a permit to go there and kill a single gobbler in a five-day period.
...At least from the perspective of this commenter, THAT is where we are headed... ::)
My rant would be, it's all about money!!! Everything that was mentioned. From the slams, social media, youtube, cameras, decoys, blinds and everything else. The root of it all, is it is about money...including the Thunder chicken, lol. Money can't buy you happiness....Oh wait...but it can buy you a boat, and it can buy you a truck to pull it. Sorry...I went country on you all. I'm not against someone trying to make money, but sometimes the way they do it. Not going to put down anyone for making a better mouse trap. Some people would like to be millionaires, and some are fine with where there at. I'm fine where I'm at.
Everyone uses social media, to get recognition. I tend to worry less about these people and pretty much worry more about myself.. How i hunt is no ones business but my own. If you don't care for the way i hunt that fine, that all up to you and your opinion. I do agree with less numbers of turkey's bag limit's will change. But hey if you have access to land go out and make improvements to attract more wildlife including turkeys, you will be surprised what a small clover plot can do..I don't think blaming the NWTF is the all the problem. The NWTF goal was to attract members and i do think they have somewhat lost their ways among most of us, but being one of the few organizations we have i still will support them IMO..
Gobblenut,
I agree with the opinion that the "cat's already out of the bag" and it's not going back in anytime soon. Damage has been done unfortunately.
I was involved in a similar ongoing discussion in another forum. The two sides couldn't have been any further apart. My biggest argument concerning social media and forum posts is to just be responsible. A good steward of the resource would not be irresponsible in sharing too much information. One is called selfish for not divulging information or calling out someone posting pictures at WMA signs. Yet, I'd argue the selfishness is in broadcasting such information. But, what I noticed in that sample size was the attitude on the opposite side to just accept "the times". Argued the need for hunter recruitment while also calling for more draw permits as a alternative to our argument to simply squelch the information free flow. First, let's not justify social media posts as hunter recruitment, yet calling for increased hunter restrictions by increased draw hunts. That makes no sense. Just be responsible.... It's that simple. Either you are a good steward for the turkey populations and the future of turkey hunting or your not. In that forum I noticed the following. 1. Only the die hard turkey hunters with a vested interest in populations and the future of turkey hunting drew a hard line against social media posts. 2. Several that I feel confident would hold the same opinions, stayed away from the conversation for fear of negative rebuttal from the majority. 3. The majority had no issues with specifics being shared on social media or the promoting of public lands....almost all of these could take it or leave it. Turkeys and turkey hunting aren't necessarily a priority. A few of which threatened to even increase the flow of information just for spite. Makes sense.
Quick question for the OP is "Reaping" your perferred method of shooting Turkeys,not judging just wondering.
Greg
And in the meantime while all of this banter does no good.......go trap a Coon or a possum (or 20) and knock him in the head!!!
Quote from: redjones on July 16, 2021, 01:14:56 PM
Quick question for the OP is "Reaping" your perferred method of shooting Turkeys,not judging just wondering.
Greg
No sir, never reaped a turkey in my life. when I made this account I had no idea what "reaping turkeys" was. Honestly I'm a little embarrassed of my username, and have thought about making a new account over it.
Quote from: Shiloh on July 16, 2021, 01:46:55 PM
And in the meantime while all of this banter does no good.......go trap a Coon or a possum (or 20) and knock him in the head!!!
The very same issues we have with social media impacting turkey hunting are also a big problem for us in terms of eliminating predators such as racoons. Just get on YouTube and look at all the videos which portray racoons (and other similar predators) as furry little pets which people hand-feed at their houses like their pet pooches.
How long does it take the urban YouTube surfer to start associating the control of these types of predators with something along the same lines as killing the neighbors pet dog or cat? Again, we hunters have a big PR problem with stuff like this that is only going to get worse with the images portrayed on these social media sites.
Succinctly stated, discretion is advised in dealing with the non-hunting public in these matters.
I just skimmed through your post, so sorry if I missed something. I have to say that forums like this one seem to be a place for a minority of hunters to complain about everyone else.
Yes there are issues in the hunting world, yes social media has spoiled a lot of good spots, I know from experience. I've been on Facebook longer than I've been hunting, and I've been on YouTube as long as I've been hunting (11 years), and believe me I've seen the good, bad and ugly. I have made a few mistakes along the way too.
But here's the thing, do you think making enemies with your fellow hunters is going to solve anything? The real problem we are looking at is the human population growing bigger every year. If hunter numbers don't grow too, we become a smaller minority every year. Unfortunately that means lower bag limits and shorter seasons in the long run. But we don't want to become a minuscule minority of the general population, mainly for political reasons. People are worried about losing gun rights, but gun ownership is extremely strong in the US. Hunters on the other hand make a much smaller percentage of the population, and we need to stay strong because people do want to outlaw hunting.
We as hunters have done more for wildlife over the years than any other group of people has ever done. And we need to stick together and try to find some middle ground on our disagreements, rather than fight over petty BS. Our whole country is divided left vs right, it's caused all kinds of problems and isn't getting any better...let's not let that happen to the hunting community.
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TurkeyReaper69, I examined your OP and I find myself about 100% in agreement. However, the situation we find ourselves in is not likely to change. I only hunt in two states, Louisiana and Mississippi. I will likely only hunt Louisiana in the future because of the factors you mentioned. Really, I only see one rational option for me, and that is QUIT.
Quote from: catman529 on July 16, 2021, 03:23:19 PM
We as hunters have done more for wildlife over the years than any other group of people has ever done. And we need to stick together and try to find some middle ground on our disagreements, rather than fight over petty BS.
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A great compromise would be for youtubers to stop saying where they are hunting. No need to mention what NF they are on,
what state they are in, or even if they are hunting public or private. Just show turkey hunting. That would be a decent compromise wouldn't it?
Quote from: catman529 on July 16, 2021, 03:23:19 PM
I just skimmed through your post, so sorry if I missed something. I have to say that forums like this one seem to be a place for a minority of hunters to complain about everyone else.
Yes there are issues in the hunting world, yes social media has spoiled a lot of good spots, I know from experience. I've been on Facebook longer than I've been hunting, and I've been on YouTube as long as I've been hunting (11 years), and believe me I've seen the good, bad and ugly. I have made a few mistakes along the way too.
But here's the thing, do you think making enemies with your fellow hunters is going to solve anything? The real problem we are looking at is the human population growing bigger every year. If hunter numbers don't grow too, we become a smaller minority every year. Unfortunately that means lower bag limits and shorter seasons in the long run. But we don't want to become a minuscule minority of the general population, mainly for political reasons. People are worried about losing gun rights, but gun ownership is extremely strong in the US. Hunters on the other hand make a much smaller percentage of the population, and we need to stay strong because people do want to outlaw hunting.
We as hunters have done more for wildlife over the years than any other group of people has ever done. And we need to stick together and try to find some middle ground on our disagreements, rather than fight over petty BS. Our whole country is divided left vs right, it's caused all kinds of problems and isn't getting any better...let's not let that happen to the hunting community.
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AMEN.. People better wake up and support these hunting organizations , like you said the good , bad and the ugly .. keep fighting together ..
First let me say I pretty much agree with with everything you said in your post. That said I always find it ironic when I read these threads. Guys on social media, forums are a form of social media, ranting about how social media is ruining turkey hunting. No form of social media can ruin anything in my opinion. It's how WE choose to use it and react to it. In my opinion it's the kill at all cost mentality that is going to ruin turkey hunting and that mentality has been around for quite some time. Back in the late 90's and early 00's every call and camo company were producing 2+ hour videos of rapid kill after kill after kill shots. They then saw an opportunity to compensate on certain crutches like strutting decoys and tents making it to where the guy who would kill maybe 1 gobbler every other year could now kill multiple gobblers. Not much thought was given to this because turkey numbers were still exploding. If a guy on a forum dared bring up a criticism he was called an elitist on all the forums, including this one. I cringe at some of the things I see on YouTube but the most popular turkey hunting channels actually emphasize the hunt over the kill. These channels have a huge influence and hopefully most new hunters will take note.I do think we need to call out and criticize publicly the ones that are jeopardizing our beloved resource but by the same token I think we need to support the ones who are trying to help. Just last year The Hunting Public raised $35,000 plus put in $10,000 of their own proceeds for a research project in Alabama. Dave Owens with his partnership with Backwoods Grind coffee has raised countless dollars to be donated to TFT. Last off season I saw more people starting to trap than I ever have due to these "influencers" social media presence. Time will tell if these things are going to make a huge difference but it's better than what most are doing. Social media is here to stay. We have to do all we can to influence a change in the mentality and show other hunters, that in turkey hunting the hunt is the trophy.
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Quote from: Chad on July 16, 2021, 04:07:30 PM
Quote from: catman529 on July 16, 2021, 03:23:19 PM
We as hunters have done more for wildlife over the years than any other group of people has ever done. And we need to stick together and try to find some middle ground on our disagreements, rather than fight over petty BS.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
A great compromise would be for youtubers to stop saying where they are hunting. No need to mention what NF they are on,
what state they are in, or even if they are hunting public or private. Just show turkey hunting. That would be a decent compromise wouldn't it?
Yes, that'd be an awesome compromise that the vast majority of naysayers would be thrilled with. However it comes at a cost to the YouTubers. And that cost is views. Which in turn affects their brand growth. Affecting their merchandise sales, partnerships, sponsors, etc.
So many folks watch the videos just to try and find out where the awesome hunts take place. Or they search " 'xyz state' turkey hunting" to watch a turkey hunt in that state. The YouTubers want their video to be #1 in search results. If they don't include the state name in their title, its going to be hard for their video to pop up.
I recently proposed this compromise to a popular YouTuber in person and the compromise was not very welcome! It was made clear that states will continue to be named.
I blame daffy duck, bugs bunny and all the humanized cartoons for the anti-hunting sentiment. Too, bad Elmer Fudd never killed that rabbit and duck on the first try.
This world is changing and nothing short of the second coming of Christ will stop it. We have crested the mountain and started the decent into the valley of anarchy. The brakes on this train have no hope of holding, all we can do is hope for a controlled crash. There are many points made that are all valid and none that will systematically change anything in the near future. The problem we face is not in our woods, all creation is capable of taking care of it's self, if given a chance. The basis of conservation is to give them this chance.
The primary nemesis of turkeys and all wildlife is Man. In a society that has become more heartless, selfish and bereft of morality the fight is within each of us. Ethical compromise has become self justification and legalistic rights to do, as I please! We most likely will wait until the train wrecks and then clean up the carnage and see what we can salvage. There are those in this country that see it as a way to ultimate rule. Turkey hunting is just a side game. Think about it, conservation is caring enough to sacrifice for a greater good. The atmosphere in society has become, "I am owed something and by god I'm taking it". Not until we fix ourselves will we fix something as minor as The wild Turkey.
Quote from: Brad_Colvin on July 16, 2021, 04:39:03 PM
Just last year The Hunting Public raised $35,000 plus put in $10,000 of their own proceeds for a research project in Alabama.
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These yahoos have also make money off of pimping out public lands and the wild turkey all across the southeast. Telling everyone how easy it is to get license with online apps, you get to shoot multiple turkeys, lots of public land, yadda yadda yadda. Then in their next episode they are crying with Dr Chamberlin about the decline of the wild turkey in the southeast and talking about research that needs to be done. They are simply trying to wash away their sins with that research money donation and look like good guys...
Quote from: Chad on July 16, 2021, 04:07:30 PM
Quote from: catman529 on July 16, 2021, 03:23:19 PM
We as hunters have done more for wildlife over the years than any other group of people has ever done. And we need to stick together and try to find some middle ground on our disagreements, rather than fight over petty BS.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
A great compromise would be for youtubers to stop saying where they are hunting. No need to mention what NF they are on,
what state they are in, or even if they are hunting public or private. Just show turkey hunting. That would be a decent compromise wouldn't it?
I recently met with one of the most if not the most popular turkey YouTuber out there who relies on his videos for a living. I mentioned this and it was shot down very quickly.
Yes great idea about not mentioning the state, public or private, etc.
Said youtuber I met with who is presumed to be hunting public in most of his videos, told me "I don't know why you think I caused the Non Resident explosion in _____ state, I hunt private land in _____ state and have been for several years"
So there ya have it. Folks rushing into that state under the assumption he's on public, when in fact it's private.
Who really cares where the bird was killed? Whether you are a DIY Hunter or have an outfitter bring that bird to gun, just have fun. No need to mention all the nitty gritty details.
The YouTubers reasoning for not quitting naming states was summed up to be
"I'm a traveling turkey hunter and I want everyone to know that I am traveling by naming states"
Uhhh....? I think it'd be pretty apparent your not just hunting one state when you kill 30 birds a season and have multiple diifferent subspecies/ terrains on your videos.
#MakePrivateLandCoolAgain
Don't have time for summer thoughts. Pulled and put up 40 dozen ears of corn yesterday, picked beans, okra, squash, tomatoes etc. Finished up gutter guards today and then set 40 t posts on a new fence line, another 40 tomorrow then will pull wire. When that's finished I am fishing till deer season. Turkey season will be here soon enough. That's about as good a dissertation as I can manage right now.
Quote from: catman529 on July 16, 2021, 03:23:19 PM
I just skimmed through your post, so sorry if I missed something. I have to say that forums like this one seem to be a place for a minority of hunters to complain about everyone else.
Yes there are issues in the hunting world, yes social media has spoiled a lot of good spots, I know from experience. I've been on Facebook longer than I've been hunting, and I've been on YouTube as long as I've been hunting (11 years), and believe me I've seen the good, bad and ugly. I have made a few mistakes along the way too.
But here's the thing, do you think making enemies with your fellow hunters is going to solve anything? The real problem we are looking at is the human population growing bigger every year. If hunter numbers don't grow too, we become a smaller minority every year. Unfortunately that means lower bag limits and shorter seasons in the long run. But we don't want to become a minuscule minority of the general population, mainly for political reasons. People are worried about losing gun rights, but gun ownership is extremely strong in the US. Hunters on the other hand make a much smaller percentage of the population, and we need to stay strong because people do want to outlaw hunting.
We as hunters have done more for wildlife over the years than any other group of people has ever done. And we need to stick together and try to find some middle ground on our disagreements, rather than fight over petty BS. Our whole country is divided left vs right, it's caused all kinds of problems and isn't getting any better...let's not let that happen to the hunting community.
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I see your point Catman, but in my opinion between the new locavore/ organic food group of millineal hunters we've seen rise in the last few years coupled with the kids whose father figure whether it's dad, Grampa, uncle, neighbor down the road or whoever introducing folks to hunting I don't believe your videos of turkeys getting shot out trees is needed as an extra catalyst to spur more hunters, or in this case more unethical killings. Sure I'd love to get a kid or two out hunting and grow the sport, nothing wrong with teaching a young whippersnapper how to hunt small game, deer, or even turkey. But not everyone needs to be a traveling turkey hunter, or a turkey hunter at that, or applying for western big game tags. But that is the trend going on. Pretty wild in a conversation you'll have now a days a typical question to come up is "so how many states did you hunt this year?" Up until a year or two ago I didn't know many folks who hunted more than 1 or 2 states outside of their home state. And typically it'd be a state like Kansas, Texas, Florida, etc. Now I can't go scroll on a Facebook group without seeing some wingnut gloating about his turkey tour and the 14 different states he hunted this past season.
Turkeys are a finite resource, I do not wish to see my oppurtinites limited. I wish some Crappie influencer would come along, and everyone would drop their slate call and pick up a fishing rod in the spring. Maybe I'm just selfish, but then again. Most turkey hunters are.
Quote from: THattaway on July 16, 2021, 06:37:49 PM
Don't have time for summer thoughts. Pulled and put up 40 dozen ears of corn yesterday, picked beans, okra, squash, tomatoes etc. Finished up gutter guards today and then set 40 t posts on a new fence line, another 40 tomorrow then will pull wire. When that's finished I am fishing till deer season. Turkey season will be here soon enough. That's about as good a dissertation as I can manage right now.
Then why even make this post to begin with? U obviously had enough time to get on here to decribe ur day.
This thread is almost as entertaining as watching someone try and sandpaper the arse of an alligator in a phone booth. Very entertaining indeed.
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come on Happy, you can do better than that? Stoke the fire and watch the barn burn....
A man carries a duck into the house under his arm and says, "this is the pig I was talking about, and his wife snaps back, "that's a duck you dumb Arse" and the man replies, "I was talking to the duck".
See it's all in context, if you don't know the context you can't see the meaning.
To each his own. It takes a lot of effort to travel to 48 other states and kill birds. Nothing inherently wrong with it and I wouldn't deny anyone the challenge. But I have to wonder if the traveling hunters have any significant impact on the turkey populations? I suspect they do. I've seen some awfully crowded WMA's over the years. Then you hear that it's ruined after OOSer's jammed it for a few years.
I post a kill pic or two here each season (luckily!) but I don't want to take away from the experience by carrying, deploying and messing with a camera during my hunt. I like most of those memories in my head, not on my hard drive. It doesn't bother me if others video, I don't have to watch them. As stated, I kind of hope some more people take up predator hunting and trapping and they can post videos of it to Youtube!
I think we are all in for some lean years as traveling hunters, with lower limits and one bird states. The states who resist that will be slammed and in time, have to follow suit to some degree.
I wonder if any of them lower their license prices along with the turkey limit?
Quote from: Tail Feathers on July 16, 2021, 07:57:00 PM
I wonder if any of them lower their license prices along with the turkey limit?
Nah, the demand will still be there for a while.
Quote from: Chad on July 16, 2021, 05:32:02 PM
Quote from: Brad_Colvin on July 16, 2021, 04:39:03 PM
Just last year The Hunting Public raised $35,000 plus put in $10,000 of their own proceeds for a research project in Alabama.
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These yahoos have also make money off of pimping out public lands and the wild turkey all across the southeast. Telling everyone how easy it is to get license with online apps, you get to shoot multiple turkeys, lots of public land, yadda yadda yadda. Then in their next episode they are crying with Dr Chamberlin about the decline of the wild turkey in the southeast and talking about research that needs to be done. They are simply trying to wash away their sins with that research money donation and look like good guys...
Time to take your ball and go home Chad.
Quote from: Happy on July 16, 2021, 06:57:23 PM
This thread is almost as entertaining as watching someone try and sandpaper the arse of an alligator in a phone booth. Very entertaining indeed.
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All's alive and well on old gobbler ... LOL...
come on Happy, you can do better than that? Stoke the fire and watch the barn burn....
I was thinking it was getting pretty quiet here. For everyone that claims that turkeys are their passion I find the silence after the seasons end a bit odd. However I don't need to throw any more rocks in the pond at the moment. But for the record the internet has done more harm than good in my opinion. I did realize that with my stellar good looks and charm I would be a hit if i started my own utube channel. Now if I can just figure out how to kill a turkey I just might realize my dream of notoriety and fame.
Quote from: Shiloh on July 16, 2021, 01:46:55 PM
And in the meantime while all of this banter does no good.......go trap a Coon or a possum (or 20) and knock him in the head!!!
How about both? Tell some hard truths that need to be told AND take out some predators. A good day for turkeys all around I'd say.
:christmaswindow:k
Quote from: catman529 on July 16, 2021, 03:23:19 PM
I just skimmed through your post, so sorry if I missed something. I have to say that forums like this one seem to be a place for a minority of hunters to complain about everyone else.
Yes there are issues in the hunting world, yes social media has spoiled a lot of good spots, I know from experience. I've been on Facebook longer than I've been hunting, and I've been on YouTube as long as I've been hunting (11 years), and believe me I've seen the good, bad and ugly. I have made a few mistakes along the way too.
But here's the thing, do you think making enemies with your fellow hunters is going to solve anything? The real problem we are looking at is the human population growing bigger every year. If hunter numbers don't grow too, we become a smaller minority every year. Unfortunately that means lower bag limits and shorter seasons in the long run. But we don't want to become a minuscule minority of the general population, mainly for political reasons. People are worried about losing gun rights, but gun ownership is extremely strong in the US. Hunters on the other hand make a much smaller percentage of the population, and we need to stay strong because people do want to outlaw hunting.
We as hunters have done more for wildlife over the years than any other group of people has ever done. And we need to stick together and try to find some middle ground on our disagreements, rather than fight over petty BS. Our whole country is divided left vs right, it's caused all kinds of problems and isn't getting any better...let's not let that happen to the hunting community.
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I think that's what is good about debating such subjects. Otherwise, one just sticks his head in the sand or looks the other way and in 5 years we are shooting wildlife legally with drones. That's why there are points made against what can be damaging. Compromise is the goal, not a continual path down a dangerous road. I challenge you to consider your statement of "petty BS". The health of turkey populations and the future of turkey hunting to be passed down to ALL, is extremely important to me, as I'm sure it is for you as well. I will never step a toe in most of these states to turkey hunt, but I truly care about the well being of their turkey populations. Voicing concerns over these issues isn't "petty BS" in my opinion. Not trying to argue, just trying to encourage a different viewpoint. Social media has played a role in what we will now see with increased restrictions and regulations, much of which poses a threat to increasing hunter numbers in the future. That's why I don't always agree with the "if it's legal argument" or consider it bashing other hunters to voice an opinion. There is always differing opinions in all walks of life or things get out of balance, and turkey hunting is no exception.
If the President would just make me Czar of All Things Turkey with a lifetime appointment and an unlimited budget I could make all of you do it my way and completely fix turkey hunting for the forseeable future. Wouldn't that be so wonderful?! :OGturkeyhead:
I enjoy watching those yahoo's on YouTube but at the end of the day that's the problem along with the internet and humans
.
I choose to put my money into things that I know 100% that is going to the good . Trapping , planting , habitat improvement etc . These turkey organizations nwtf etc ??? You have no clue where your hard earned money is actually going . As far as the you tube guys ? I've noticed the last few shows I've watched they are steady complaining about the pressure on the public there hunting ,,, well , Mirrow meet face !!!!
The subject of slams ? I hit a few back in my ball days .... no place for them in hunting IMO .
Thankfully our state game agencies manage the resource based on scientific data and not internet discussions. Back in the day, when I worked for such an agency, we had a similar problem with a species of fish and I was the genius that thought we should hold a public forum and see what the anglers wanted. So we scheduled a time and place and held a meeting. What a poop show that turned into. I thought we were going to be assaulted and a fist fight or two almost broke out. If we had a hundred people maybe 10 actually offered sound logic and concern and maybe 1/3 just listened. But, among the rest the predominate emphasis from most was, "I want you to do this or that" with no solutions offered. We presented research, angler surveys and population study data and most never even listened to it, they just wanted to bitch at somebody. In the end we invited the few that showed genuine concern and sound thinking processes to sit down in a closed forum and talk. What resulted was a compromise that everyone thought made sense. Twenty plus years later that strategy seems to have abated the problem somewhat. I will admit it's not the same glory that once existed but it stabilized and today's anglers still enjoy the resource.
Wildlife agencies don't always do things right and it varies by who is leading the group. I have found the more interaction and control that comes from politicians the worse the management principles. Yet, in most states Wildlife agencies have become pretty independent of politics. I can assure you they see and hear you and they realize there is a problem. They have probably been working on it for a while. In nature and wildlife management things do not happen fast, it takes time. My best advice is to be patient and engage your wildlife professionals. Talk with them and when they hold public meetings be respectful with your interactions. No one likes being yelled at, it only makes you look like a jerk and they will tune you out, even if your right.
Internet forums are a crap show in most cases and not much different than the meeting I spoke of. I see some good well thought out opinions, but nothing will be done by this forum. This is just bitching, it's not doing. Before I get slammed with, "I do this or I do that". I am talking in general terms and I credit that a lot of you do manage properties and leases well, good for you, but it's only a drop in the bucket on the national scale or even state. We need our agencies to address the big picture and they will.
Opinions are like butt holes, we all have one. The internet is good for venting, but we need b soldiers in the field. All I ask is to examine yourself and your hunting and ask, Am I part of the problem or part of the solution?".
I also think much of the youtube and social media crowd are just "look at Me" based and self serving. People want to "be somebody". That is why so many younger hunters are producing the youtube channels. They see it as a path to establishing themselves and validation. Somewhere, us old timers are to blame that technology is the path they take to say, here I am I have value". If they aren't doing things ethically, in our view, then perhaps it's because they were left to their own inventiveness to establish right from wrong. Be a mentor if you value your position on ethics and foster that mind set in a young outdoorsman.
Quote from: Stoeger_bird on July 16, 2021, 06:55:36 PM
Quote from: THattaway on July 16, 2021, 06:37:49 PM
Don't have time for summer thoughts. Pulled and put up 40 dozen ears of corn yesterday, picked beans, okra, squash, tomatoes etc. Finished up gutter guards today and then set 40 t posts on a new fence line, another 40 tomorrow then will pull wire. When that's finished I am fishing till deer season. Turkey season will be here soon enough. That's about as good a dissertation as I can manage right now.
Then why even make this post to begin with? U obviously had enough time to get on here to decribe ur day.
Felt the need to express my opinion. I check in here a few times a week. Thanks for asking. Turkey season will be here again before you know it. Plenty in life to worry about that is way more important. Some here lose sight of that.
Quote from: THattaway on July 17, 2021, 09:27:41 AM
Felt the need to express my opinion. I check in here a few times a week. Thanks for asking. Turkey season will be here again before you know it. Plenty in life to worry about that is way more important. Some here lose sight of that.
Great response. We can all be avid turkey hunters while at the same time understanding that there are, or should be, lots of other things in our lives that should ultimately be more important. It seems that to some that the line between turkey hunting as a passion and turkey hunting as a true addiction that needs to be addressed is a bit blurry.
Then again, this comment is being made by a guy that probably spends too much time on OG commenting... ;D :angel9:
Speaking of better things to do than bitch on an internet forum. This morning I went into the woods in an old timber cut to pick blackberries. I saw a doe and I think her fawn. I had a Gobbler cluck at me as I walked through the leaves. Then I pulled back a briar and there was a nest of baby birds, so I backed off and watched for momma, a yellow warbler showed up. I also picked two quarts of berries. Yup there's more to life
Our blackberries have dried up, but before they did I had the kids go out and pick enough for a cobbler. We froze some homemade vanilla to go with it!!!
I sure do like homemade cobblers and homemade ice cream..
Me too.....my favorite!!!
It's hard to beat
Had a big ole piece of blackberry pie with a glass of cold milk last night....mmm good. I'd share some with you guys, but it might be hard to attach to an email :TooFunny:
I guess there are things we can all agree on. The first item in this post was summer thoughts, I can think of several summer thoughts that are better than forum bitching:
Watching all the young wildlife, especially watching for turkey broods
flowers and shrubs blooming
Gardening, man are all those fresh veggies and produce good. Green beans, new potatoes, sweetcorn, cantaloupe and tree ripened fruit.
Fishing- I fish way more than I turkey hunt. Frying up fresh caught Saugeye is my favorite
Sitting on the porch early in the morning and watching the sunrise on the fields with the deer and fawns playing
Summer is Bikini season too, yeah that's in the past for us old farts, but some of you are still in bikini viewing season. All I can do is remember when the wife and I would head to the lake to just boat and laze around in the sun and you know some other stuff.
:drool:
Grilling out and picnics
Traveling to new places and old
Man, There are so many good things, to fill in the gap between turkey seasons. Life is what you make it. If you want to wallow in misery then that's on you, not what others do.
Learn to fish
Quote from: eggshell on July 17, 2021, 10:26:59 AM
Speaking of better things to do than bitch on an internet forum. This morning I went into the woods in an old timber cut to pick blackberries. I saw a doe and I think her fawn. I had a Gobbler cluck at me as I walked through the leaves. Then I pulled back a briar and there was a nest of baby birds, so I backed off and watched for momma, a yellow warbler showed up. I also picked two quarts of berries. Yup there's more to life
Absolutely!!! :icon_thumright:
Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.
Gee, this was a depressing Sunday morning read!
All joking aside, part of all the issues mentioned are somewhat self limiting. Any pursuit always has its share of "fair weather" participants. Social media has amplified that phenomenon. If it is relatively easy, AKA fun, everyone and their brother will jump in, but let it become less so, AKA work, that four letter word many among the younger generation are only familiar with in abstract terms, and I suspect you will see fewer YouTubers at the local WMA.
As for the YouTube videos. Quit watching. I'm always amazed, and puzzled, by the continued problems in this country with robocalls and phone scams. Thirty days of hearing what they all hear when they call our house, a click followed by silence, and all the scammers in the world would be out of business and forced to earn a living in a more honest manner, like armed robbery.
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Loose lips sinks ships.
I find it Ironic that "WE" are on a social media site complaining about..... Social media.
The industry has exploited turkey through video for years and years and years. The YouTubers didn't start that. I do hope them to be more respectful of the lands they are using as to not specifically list them. But, I have no problem at all with a guy saying, "We are on some public ground here in WV". No problem from me.
If it's that we don't like that these guys are making money along the way, don't watch them. It's your choice right? It's still America.
I myself enjoy watching some of the you tube guys and gals. And I will give them this..... 99.9% of them show more patience than I have. I will not let a turkey walk around to get a better picture of him. Plenty of picture time when he is done flopping.
I do not and have never had a book of faces account. But, I understand what you guys are saying about that. People can not go on a public forum and list areas for all to see. There are too many people out there "ME" looking for easy information. Lots of people do this all the time. I did it for years fishing lake Erie tribs for Steelhead. Soon, the locals posting that info figured out there issues and tampered it off. Hopefully some of these people doing this today will figure it out also, in a lot less time!
Lots of young people in the sport today that have never been mentored in a way to keep their mouth shut. I feel a lot of us older people can easily see it, because, well, we have been there and done that. I have anyway.
Hopefully next spring this Covid crap will be over with. The guberment will have stopped giving out free money, and people will be back to work busy making money. These two things have put a lot of extra people in the woods the last two springs for all to enjoy.
Wasn't that long ago on all these forums the talk was how all the "pros" are only good cuz the hunt private land...Be careful what you wish for,killing turkeys isn't rocket science!
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I still think some miss the mark on this message and similar. Maybe sometimes it's in the presentation, but why is bringing up points or arguments (as in one side of a debate) always considered "bit*****"? Albeit a minority, but there are a lot of concerned hunters on the effects that social media outlets have on turkeys and turkey hunting. But saying, "you don't have to watch", "change the channel", "if it's legal", "spend your time trapping rather than complaining", "you're on social media complaining about social media", etc. etc. etc. I'd consider that sticking one's head in the sand. Just listen to The Turkey Hunter podcast shared in the other thread about social media. They recognize it, enough to consider themselves even hypocrites for promoting what they do and yet understanding the negatives that come along with it. They tip-toed around it at times without being too brash, but did name a few names and call out that maybe some things need to change. Are we so sensitive these days that arguing (once again in the context of debating) that we just write it off as whining and complaining every time? I've seen several comments that in the same paragraph express concern for the negative effects and yet say hunters need to quit complaining and accept it's just the new reality. Some just need to be educated. So, you say who decides what is right and what is wrong? I agree that's a fine line sometimes. But, if anyone can provide ONE positive for the resource (turkey population) with promoting SPECIFIC information on Facebook, YouTube, Forums, etc. I would love to hear it. We all love to watch videos, see pictures, and hear stories.... Just be responsible and respectful of the resource. Leave out the specifics and recognize what even actively promoting public land can potentially lead to. Should we all just sit back, not discuss the negatives and see where we are in another 5 years or 10 years?
My only point of concern would be that only discussing it and never doing anything wouldn't do much good. I suspect that a large majority of people that complain about how their public tract is being treated haven't gone out and actually done anything to benefit the resource. Hopefully I'm wrong.
I'm not sure if this was discussed but I do think two things would immediately help. 1. YouTubers don't even say what state they are in. That may not sound like a big deal, but I know for a fact that there's a particular state that WILL get hammered in 2022 because of the amount of people who talked about it in 2021. The other thing would be to have a 1 bird limit across every state for any nonresident hunter. The reason I say that is because I have a buddy who went to Nebraska with like 3 buddies. In 2.5 days they shot like 10 birds because they could. Just make it a 1 bird limit for any nonresident hunter. I don't think it's a big deal
God made the return key, the spacebar and the comma key for good reasons.
QuoteI have a buddy who went to Nebraska with like 3 buddies. In 2.5 days they shot like 10 birds because they could. Just make it a 1 bird limit for any nonresident hunter.
Do you realize, you just committed the very sin you named as a problem? Named a state and stats for a state. 10 birds in 2.5 days will indeed be a temptation to many.
Quote from: silvestris on July 21, 2021, 12:59:43 AM
God made the return key, the spacebarbar and the comma key for good reasons.
Mmmm...I love those spacebarbar's.
Quote from: turkeyfool on July 21, 2021, 12:04:48 AM
I'm not sure if this was discussed but I do think two things would immediately help. 1. YouTubers don't even say what state they are in. That may not sound like a big deal, but I know for a fact that there's a particular state that WILL get hammered in 2022 because of the amount of people who talked about it in 2021. The other thing would be to have a 1 bird limit across every state for any nonresident hunter. The reason I say that is because I have a buddy who went to Nebraska with like 3 buddies. In 2.5 days they shot like 10 birds because they could. Just make it a 1 bird limit for any nonresident hunter. I don't think it's a big deal
1 bird limit? No thanks dude. I'm not here advocating for my opportunity to be taken away. I'm frustrated with the sheer number of traveling turkey hunters now.
Honestly, I think Facebook is more damaging than YouTube. The amount of posts I saw this year in the northeast and Tennessee this year was ungodly. Hell I think the entire states of Arkansas and Alabama was in Maine this year. Not to mention most of these newly acclaimed super slammers or whatever have no intention of ever returning to these states so they'll freely share information with any stranger on the internet. The cats out of the bag on Nebraska it's glory days have come and gone.
I agree with your post also. I made up the singe season southern slam thread. Honestly it was kind of a joke because it would be the only kind of "slam" I'm going to be able to complete unless something changes. I didn't realize Hushin had jumped into the turkey game. I quit watching those guys a long time ago. I feel bad for western hunters as they have to deal with the same kind of crap that we do, probably even worse than turkey hunters. There are some YouTube guys I like to watch and I feel like are really good guys who purely love to turkey hunt but have gotten themselves into a weird situation. No matter how pure the original motivations were to teach others about how to turkey hunt "the right way" their channels are causing more pressure to be put on turkeys. Facebook is the worst. I've got a Facebook but I wouldn't care if it just went away all together. Most of the big tech guys are losers anyway. I appreciate this forum and the like minded guys here who love to turkey hunt. Hope y'all all have a blessed spring in 2022, call some birds right of the limb, and bump into fewer people than the last two years.
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I wish I would've found this thread a couple of years ago! I thought I was the only one sick to death of these exact same issues, the pandemic definitely threw gas on the fire too just cause people were off and bored.
I used to be blessed (and cursed) to have to travel a LOT for work, driving all over the country 3 - 4 weeks out of a month....before a wife and kid of course. But one large benefit of all this traveling was I got to hunt lots of states so I got to thinking "I wonder if I could kill a turkey in every state?". I told my close friends of my thought and they laughed, haha...."that's crazy" or "impossible" I heard a lot. Back in the mid 2000's we'd never heard of such a feat, but I thought I could do it over time.
When I stopped traveling for work I was in the upper 20's of states probably but still want to continue so me and my little family will travel to a new area each year and i'll hunt in the morning and vacation the rest of the day with them.
Now it seems like there's somebody behind every tree trying to do what i'm doing but i'm so close now (7 to go) i'm going to finish.
All that being said I don't have a facebook account, and i've never recorded one of my hunts. I'm doing this for me and what started out to be a neat thing to accomplish. It has become very frustrating when doing research for new states or talking to someone in a state that's new and the say "oh you're a state collector" or "chasing 49" cause of all the yahoos doing it for money or fame that have tainted this by making it so popular on youtube and facebook.
I know this thread is old but I liked it a lot and agree with all of your "rants" and felt compelled to add to it. I REALLY liked the one mans idea of 1 bird for non-residents....brilliant! Get your 1 bird and be happy for it!
That's all here, good luck to everyone this spring!
Thank you for the rant, I enjoyed it. You bring up some interesting gripes and concerns.
Social media is one hell of a drug.
Quote from: bwall3220 on March 25, 2023, 12:34:47 PM
I REALLY liked the one mans idea of 1 bird for non-residents....brilliant! Get your 1 bird and be happy for it!
That's all here, good luck to everyone this spring!
This. X2. I've never been selfish. Hell I passed up a Jake after traveling all the way across the country to Cali. One bird is good enough for me. And it must be a Longbeard.
Last trip to the black hills, I killed a bird within two hours of arriving. So I just drove to Wyoming the rest of the week.
I know it's an old thread but since it has been brought up I feel it is pertinent to mention the best slam of them all. The Denny's grand slam.
Saw this thread resurface. I'm the original poster.
I took the liberty this afternoon to reread my original post and the comments that followed.
At first glance I thought "hm things seem to have gotten better since 2021" then I quickly realized, they HAVE NOT. This crap has just become more normalized and we've grown accustomed to the new world of turkey hunting as the years have gone by.
We are a few weeks into this season, public land pressure is at an all time high. Got a report out of Hawaii about record numbers of non resident turkey hunters on public land.
Yesterday I hunted in a southern state where opportunity for the public land hunter has been severely limited due to folks complaining about low bird numbers and pressure. Well the public land I hunted had a record breaking 125+ folks checked in to hunt. At lunch I grabbed some blaze orange out the truck to walk through the woods with due to the fact there were nearly a dozen folks crammed into the small "unit" I was on. Also got checked by game warden he mentioned catching one guy with a sack of bird seed and another who was wearing a go pro filming his hunt...sigh... I ended up harvesting a bird in the afternoon and was forced to head home because of a newly implemented "1 gobbler first 10 day rule". Funny how that only applies to public land, the common man keeps getting boned with each passing season.
Everything I mentioned in my original post still holds true today. Swap out the popular states of yesteryear and replace with new states that have recently been put in the spotlight and it's all still dead on. crazy thinking about just a few years ago I'd be able to hunt a multitude of states on public ground right now about this time, and that opportunity is just gone. And will it return one day? I'm not sure, once something is taken away from a population it's unlikely to return.
Hold on to your hats folks, there's still plenty of opportunity to lose and hunter satisfaction will continue to decline. I'm just wondering when it will end. Surely at some point we will hit rock bottom and it'll only get better from there. But how far are we from rock bottom? Only time will tell I assume, the worst is yet to come.
We are by far the greatest predator of the Wild Turkey. We also have initiated the rise in all the other predators with our practices( from timber management, lack of fur trade, feeders, etc). I too lament the crutches making it easier for "anybody" to increase their success...FB, etc helps them revel in it. I feel ya.
Quote from: Prospector on March 27, 2023, 06:19:37 AM
We are by far the greatest predator of the Wild Turkey. We also have initiated the rise in all the other predators with our practices( from timber management, lack of fur trade, feeders, etc). I too lament the crutches making it easier for "anybody" to increase their success...FB, etc helps them revel in it. I feel ya.
When the whole "predator" debate came along I said the same thing. The human population is the biggest predator that the wild turkey will ever have. From shooting them at 60+ yards, fanning, baiting, feeling the need to kill a limit of turkeys in every state, all the way to making new roads, subdivision, and building shopping centers where 10 years ago there was someone hunting. Do coons and possums and skunks eat eggs?, absolutely they do. But they don't go out hunting them down, they have a core range they travel in and when they happen upon a nest they'll eat it. But it's our fault for the hens having to nest in such poor habitat to begin with. I always get a chuckle out of the guys who say things like " killed my limit in 6 states so far and headed to the next one, hard to find a turkey in x state, more people need to trap nest predators". Or something along those lines, without ever stopping to think that himself and thousands of others are doing the exact same thing. We no doubt have a bigger impact on the turkey population than any natural predator ever has.
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Quote from: ScottTaulbee on March 27, 2023, 06:41:09 AM
Quote from: Prospector on March 27, 2023, 06:19:37 AM
We are by far the greatest predator of the Wild Turkey. We also have initiated the rise in all the other predators with our practices( from timber management, lack of fur trade, feeders, etc). I too lament the crutches making it easier for "anybody" to increase their success...FB, etc helps them revel in it. I feel ya.
When the whole "predator" debate came along I said the same thing. The human population is the biggest predator that the wild turkey will ever have. From shooting them at 60+ yards, fanning, baiting, feeling the need to kill a limit of turkeys in every state, all the way to making new roads, subdivision, and building shopping centers where 10 years ago there was someone hunting. Do coons and possums and skunks eat eggs?, absolutely they do. But they don't go out hunting them down, they have a core range they travel in and when they happen upon a nest they'll eat it. But it's our fault for the hens having to nest in such poor habitat to begin with. I always get a chuckle out of the guys who say things like " killed my limit in 6 states so far and headed to the next one, hard to find a turkey in x state, more people need to trap nest predators". Or something along those lines, without ever stopping to think that himself and thousands of others are doing the exact same thing. We no doubt have a bigger impact on the turkey population than any natural predator ever has.
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I just spent about 10 days in Florida, I went down a few days before north zone opener to hang out with family (I'm a native Floridan who moved away) and do some turkey hunting. No one will ever convince me that I did more damage to the population calling a few birds to the gun for dad and I than the development. After killing a few birds over the weekend it was time for dad to get back to work (he works in the ever dying Florida citrus industry) we spent time criss crossing over central Florida. To say I was in shock was an absolute understatement. An orange Grove I had permission to hunt just 5 or 6 years ago as a senior in high school was now a swanky little apartment complex with a pool and communal gathering area. A cattle ranch I remember seeing sand Hill cranes and strutting turkeys in front the side of Florida's State road 528 was now a strip center with a Wawa gas station and a chipotle Mexican restaurant. An orange Grove we killed a turkey in had development creeping up from all 4 directions, it almost brought closure knowing that bird wouldn't have to suffer in a year or so when the pine trees he roosts in on the property border were made into a subdivision by some out of town national developer.
Seeing all this, and knowing this is going on in every corner of the state; Jacksonville is exploding rapidly, Orlando's suburbs keep growing into Florida cattle and citrus country, retirement communities being built in what I used to consider "the middle of nowhere", Tampa and Orlando will one day be known as "Orlampa" when the I-4 corridor connecting the 2 cities will one day be completely developed.
I was more saddened by my trip than anything, I'd read the book "A land remembered" by Patrick Smith which spoke on the old Florida that was destroyed by development. At 23 years old I didn't ever know the Old Florida he spoke of without the large cities and interstate highways and byways. But what I realized before my eyes these past few weeks is the Florida I grew up in is now a land remembered. Places I used to hunt and fish freely gone, by way of development.
I pondered what this would do for hunting in peninsular Florida. Lease prices for locals will continue to rise, with an evergrowing demand from the exploding population. Outfitters who've lost properties due to development will have to search elsewhere to obtain new grounds and raise prices on the coveted Osceola hunts they sell. Public lands, oh boy. Public lands will continue to see more pressure as the population grows and people (like myself) lose opportunity to hunt private lands. I expect nearly all turkey hunting in peninsular Florida to be draw hunts in the next 15 years. And point creep in Florida is no different than for western big game, it's getting harder and harder to draw a good tag. Not to mention, the increased amount of users of Florida's public lands will put a strain on the resources. Disrupting ground nesting birds in the spring months, leaving trash and human waste seemingly everywhere with no care in the world for the enjoyment of the guy behind you, and eroding trails (and for the love of God people with 4wheelers and SXS in big cypress stay on the trails and treat it like it's your own land).
Like I said, Florida in my mind truly is a land remembered. I'm not sure if I wish to ever reside in my beloved home state again.
You calling a bird to gun doesn't hurt the population... or me. The TOTAL yous and me's thought does. I've said this before; the explosion of Turkey hunting popularity has fueled the explosion of " tactics" making it " easier" to be successful. I remember when turkey hunters were a different kind of breed- wasn't many birds and wasn't many who pursued them. Decoy, blind, ammo, E-bike companies just respond to the demand... if these weren't legal tactics " hunter" numbers would decrease.
I also agree with urban sprawl. Here in my home state, timber management and wildlife management are two very separate issues as well.
As for nest raiders? They just doing what is natural, true. But our practices are allowing numbers to be unnaturally high. So as I've said: should be a bounty, should have to meet it to get tags.
Well I am a millennial and did not start turkey hunting until I was about 18. None of my family turkey hunted only deer so my dad and I started at the same time from scratch.
We are now both fairly obsessed with it. I hunt private and public but I simply dont have enough private to last me a season and keep hunting.
I also agree that these videos have made public cool and now it is simply saturated. But, what are you going to do? Make youtube illegal? I love watching the videos but also wish they weren't increasing pressure selfishly. I also think none of this would be much of a problem if our population wasnt decreasing. So population decrease plus pressure increase equals some tough hunting. To be real i don't ever remember learning that public hunting was a thing until i reached college. No one i knew did it? Now everyone knows about it so that has for sure changed.
Somehow the government is going to have to start subsidizing things like turkey habitat upgrades and trapping. That is the only solution.
What I can tell you is if you took every piece of technology from me and told me I had to walk to every hunting spot I had I believe I would still be doing it. So decreasing pressure isn't really a option therfore the only things we can do is regulate our own harvests within an area and promote habitat/trapping.
If you hunt an area and know there is only one gobbler there maybe you shouldn't kill it? Find somewhere else to go?
Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on March 27, 2023, 09:28:42 AM
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on March 27, 2023, 06:41:09 AM
Quote from: Prospector on March 27, 2023, 06:19:37 AM
We are by far the greatest predator of the Wild Turkey. We also have initiated the rise in all the other predators with our practices( from timber management, lack of fur trade, feeders, etc). I too lament the crutches making it easier for "anybody" to increase their success...FB, etc helps them revel in it. I feel ya.
When the whole "predator" debate came along I said the same thing. The human population is the biggest predator that the wild turkey will ever have. From shooting them at 60+ yards, fanning, baiting, feeling the need to kill a limit of turkeys in every state, all the way to making new roads, subdivision, and building shopping centers where 10 years ago there was someone hunting. Do coons and possums and skunks eat eggs?, absolutely they do. But they don't go out hunting them down, they have a core range they travel in and when they happen upon a nest they'll eat it. But it's our fault for the hens having to nest in such poor habitat to begin with. I always get a chuckle out of the guys who say things like " killed my limit in 6 states so far and headed to the next one, hard to find a turkey in x state, more people need to trap nest predators". Or something along those lines, without ever stopping to think that himself and thousands of others are doing the exact same thing. We no doubt have a bigger impact on the turkey population than any natural predator ever has.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just spent about 10 days in Florida, I went down a few days before north zone opener to hang out with family (I'm a native Floridan who moved away) and do some turkey hunting. No one will ever convince me that I did more damage to the population calling a few birds to the gun for dad and I than the development. After killing a few birds over the weekend it was time for dad to get back to work (he works in the ever dying Florida citrus industry) we spent time criss crossing over central Florida. To say I was in shock was an absolute understatement. An orange Grove I had permission to hunt just 5 or 6 years ago as a senior in high school was now a swanky little apartment complex with a pool and communal gathering area. A cattle ranch I remember seeing sand Hill cranes and strutting turkeys in front the side of Florida's State road 528 was now a strip center with a Wawa gas station and a chipotle Mexican restaurant. An orange Grove we killed a turkey in had development creeping up from all 4 directions, it almost brought closure knowing that bird wouldn't have to suffer in a year or so when the pine trees he roosts in on the property border were made into a subdivision by some out of town national developer.
Seeing all this, and knowing this is going on in every corner of the state; Jacksonville is exploding rapidly, Orlando's suburbs keep growing into Florida cattle and citrus country, retirement communities being built in what I used to consider "the middle of nowhere", Tampa and Orlando will one day be known as "Orlampa" when the I-4 corridor connecting the 2 cities will one day be completely developed.
I was more saddened by my trip than anything, I'd read the book "A land remembered" by Patrick Smith which spoke on the old Florida that was destroyed by development. At 23 years old I didn't ever know the Old Florida he spoke of without the large cities and interstate highways and byways. But what I realized before my eyes these past few weeks is the Florida I grew up in is now a land remembered. Places I used to hunt and fish freely gone, by way of development.
I pondered what this would do for hunting in peninsular Florida. Lease prices for locals will continue to rise, with an evergrowing demand from the exploding population. Outfitters who've lost properties due to development will have to search elsewhere to obtain new grounds and raise prices on the coveted Osceola hunts they sell. Public lands, oh boy. Public lands will continue to see more pressure as the population grows and people (like myself) lose opportunity to hunt private lands. I expect nearly all turkey hunting in peninsular Florida to be draw hunts in the next 15 years. And point creep in Florida is no different than for western big game, it's getting harder and harder to draw a good tag. Not to mention, the increased amount of users of Florida's public lands will put a strain on the resources. Disrupting ground nesting birds in the spring months, leaving trash and human waste seemingly everywhere with no care in the world for the enjoyment of the guy behind you, and eroding trails (and for the love of God people with 4wheelers and SXS in big cypress stay on the trails and treat it like it's your own land).
Like I said, Florida in my mind truly is a land remembered. I'm not sure if I wish to ever reside in my beloved home state again.
Interesting point I hunted florida recently and was amazed what the middle of florida looked like compared to everything within an hour of the coast. Got a glimpse of old florida which will soon be gone.
Another point on florida development, these florida hunters are now all leasing in south carolina and georgia and for some reason they have plenty of money. I would venture to guess that 1/4 of the land around me is now hunted by floridians. I have lived here my whole life and I swear to you you can no longer find a lease what so ever and florida folks pay big bucks more than the locals could ever afford. There is not a stitch of private anywhere close to me that can be hunted and isnt.
with that being said this is why i go to public more now. All the florida people are hunting ALL the private around me and nothing i can do about it.
It may have been said, but I hate that turkey hunting is the "cool" thing to do. I hate that the sport has been bastardized into 30 second clips of reaping, slow-mo head shots, and flopping birds. But what can we do about that part of the problem?
Well, I started this weekend by taking a youth hunter (16) out and we killed his first turkey. I showed him how I turkey hunt. I showed him how I set up and how I call and use the terrain as the most important factor in my setups. We also had a conversation and I told him how I don't like some of the tactics and things on social media I see that are "representing" our passion. I feel like it really stuck with him and we had a blast while I showed what my version of turkey hunting looks like.
I may have just created another disgruntled "old-school" turkey hunter, but I don't care. I know that I at least started the process of creating a respectful turkey hunter, and that he has one special morning in the woods as a great reason to not become like some of the people we see on social media today. Hopefully he now knows what turkey hunting CAN be, and chases that feeling the rest of his life.
Quote from: soILstrutter on March 27, 2023, 12:36:22 PM
It may have been said, but I hate that turkey hunting is the "cool" thing to do. I hate that the sport has been bastardized into 30 second clips of reaping, slow-mo head shots, and flopping birds. But what can we do about that part of the problem?
Well, I started this weekend by taking a youth hunter (16) out and we killed his first turkey. I showed him how I turkey hunt. I showed him how I set up and how I call and use the terrain as the most important factor in my setups. We also had a conversation and I told him how I don't like some of the tactics and things on social media I see that are "representing" our passion. I feel like it really stuck with him and we had a blast while I showed what my version of turkey hunting looks like.
I may have just created another disgruntled "old-school" turkey hunter, but I don't care. I know that I at least started the process of creating a respectful turkey hunter, and that he has one special morning in the woods as a great reason to not become like some of the people we see on social media today. Hopefully he now knows what turkey hunting CAN be, and chases that feeling the rest of his life.
That's awesome, hopefully the social media bug doesn't grab ahold of him. There are two guys that are fairly local to me, that I consider to be turkey men, drop them off in the woods or the mountains with a mouth call, and a bottle of pop and at some point of the day, they'll be carrying a bird out. Anyway, they started a social media outdoor page and last year were having a tough time finding birds, they started telling me how predators are the problem, surely drunk the juice from something they read on social media, and then a couple days later started posting hero shots of bird after bird after bird and I thought man those boys really get it done. After talking to them, someone took them out reaping so they can get video for the page. The guy that took them missed a bird at several feet 3 times and the one dropped his camera and picked up his gun and killed it. After that, they took that decoy and started piling them up for the videos and they're "pro staff" for a company. Long story short, I know of 6 birds that were taken that way between those two guys and the one who showed it to them originally. Now that's fine and great, sure. But that's 6 birds that otherwise would have not been taken with what I would say most on here would consider fair chase tactics. For a round of applause from social media. The loss of habitat and this ever increasing "kill one at all costs, use whatever I can buy to do it for the pictures" attitude has contributed to way more predation on wild turkeys than any natural predators. And unfortunately, there isn't anything we can do. The ship has sailed on that a long time ago. Hopefully your protege keeps at it the right way and doesn't get tainted.
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The same thing happened to fly fishing for trout after "The Movie" (A River Runs Through It). Everybody wanted to fly fish. It was the cool thing to do and the ranks swelled by a great deal. Then it backed off and things went back to more normal after guys got tired of it and went about their business and on to next cool thing to do.
IMO it is much harder to bag a gobbler on public land. They see and feel much more pressure than most birds on private land especially if the property is good size. That has been my experience anyway.
YOU would keep hunting;" maybe" I would too, but not everyone would. Yes, this is more of a problem because of diminishing birds and opportunities. But it's still a problem... would less hunters cure it? Maybe, but it surely would not hurt it! Truthfully it's multifaceted.... Habitat, predation, urban encroachment etc. Between you and I? I'm ready for the hub-bub to die down ( like mentioned about trout fishing) so I can quietly go about turkey hunting... if that's selfish, than so be it/ I embrace it and am just trying to be honest
Quote from: Prospector on March 27, 2023, 02:12:40 PM
YOU would keep hunting;" maybe" I would too, but not everyone would. Yes, this is more of a problem because of diminishing birds and opportunities. But it's still a problem... would less hunters cure it? Maybe, but it surely would not hurt it! Truthfully it's multifaceted.... Habitat, predation, urban encroachment etc. Between you and I? I'm ready for the hub-bub to die down ( like mentioned about trout fishing) so I can quietly go about turkey hunting... if that's selfish, than so be it/ I embrace it and am just trying to be honest
I mean yeah thats fair enough but why would it die down? why would there be an end to this anytime soon? The population goes so slow that most folks cannot kill one at all?