Shooting a SX3 longbeard in 12ga with Rhino choke and nitro H518. Throws pretty good patterns putting around 265 in a 10" at 40. Need to order more shells but curious if it's worth making the switch to TSS from the H518? My opinion is the tss big benefit is to move to a smaller gauge. What are yalls thoughts if I'm sticking with my 12?
Stick with what you are using if it is working for you and you are happy.
Others may disagree, but I feel like unless you're going to drop to 2 3/4 in a 12, there isn't really a need to use TSS. TSS really shines with the smaller gauges.
For most of us, we want the LATEST and GREATEST. Many birds were killed with 2 3/4" lead #4's. Then it was 3" and finally 3 1/2" lead. When lead was trumped by Hevi-13, a lot of us jumped on the 13 train. Then it was 15 and now TSS 18. All of this, LATEST and GREATEST, cost us money. What each of us have to do is decide, when do you stop the MADNESS. I jumped to Hevi 13 and found a load that will do way more than I'll every need to kill a bird at a respectable distance and not break the bank. For me, TSS is OVER KILL with 12 gauge ammo for turkey hunting. With 20 or .410's, it levels the playing field with 12 gauges. Only you can make that decision for you. For me, Hevi is ALL I'll every need in my 12. If I go to a 20 someday, maybe TSS would be an option.
Quote from: bbcoach on January 17, 2020, 12:18:49 PM
For most of us, we want the LATEST and GREATEST. Many birds were killed with 2 3/4" lead #4's. Then it was 3" and finally 3 1/2" lead. When lead was trumped by Hevi-13, a lot of us jumped on the 13 train. Then it was 15 and now TSS 18. All of this, LATEST and GREATEST, cost us money. What each of us have to do is decide, when do you stop the MADNESS. I jumped to Hevi 13 and found a load that will do way more than I'll every need to kill a bird at a respectable distance and not break the bank. For me, TSS is OVER KILL with 12 gauge ammo for turkey hunting. With 20 or .410's, it levels the playing field with 12 gauges. Only you can make that decision for you. For me, Hevi is ALL I'll every need in my 12. If I go to a 20 someday, maybe TSS would be an option.
My thoughts exactly I guess I just needed to hear somebody else say it!ha
Only reason I went to reloading TSS from shooting Hevi 6s is because I was tired of chasing lot numbers and I was tired of paying more for less. I dropped to the 20 when doing it those years ago and I felt silly not to have done it sooner. If not for Hevi scamming people I would have never switched. If you are happy with what you are paying and the results you are getting then I see not need to change as I already stated.
Quote from: RiverRoost on January 17, 2020, 12:37:35 PM
Quote from: bbcoach on January 17, 2020, 12:18:49 PM
For most of us, we want the LATEST and GREATEST. Many birds were killed with 2 3/4" lead #4's. Then it was 3" and finally 3 1/2" lead. When lead was trumped by Hevi-13, a lot of us jumped on the 13 train. Then it was 15 and now TSS 18. All of this, LATEST and GREATEST, cost us money. What each of us have to do is decide, when do you stop the MADNESS. I jumped to Hevi 13 and found a load that will do way more than I'll every need to kill a bird at a respectable distance and not break the bank. For me, TSS is OVER KILL with 12 gauge ammo for turkey hunting. With 20 or .410's, it levels the playing field with 12 gauges. Only you can make that decision for you. For me, Hevi is ALL I'll every need in my 12. If I go to a 20 someday, maybe TSS would be an option.
My thoughts exactly I guess I just needed to hear somebody else say it!ha
This thread holds TRUE with every item, we as consumers, purchase. I was happy with my old flip cellphone but after it died I went to a cheap android, now the latest and greatest is a $1200 cell with all the bells and whistles and people have to have them as soon as they come out. Same for TV's, 4K, 8K and huge screens. This will never stop!
Quote from: CALLM2U on January 17, 2020, 12:06:32 PM
Others may disagree, but I feel like unless you're going to drop to 2 3/4 in a 12, there isn't really a need to use TSS. TSS really shines with the smaller gauges.
X2 i agree ... just stick with what your using in the 12 ga.
I'm switching to a 20 this year even though I've been pretty happy with the results from my 12. See my 12 has been my do it all shotgun, a Browning Silver in duckblind camo with a 28" barrel and an extended choke tube. In other words a turkey killing machine that's heavy and very long. I'm going lighter and easier to manage in the woods and in my blind. If I'm not happy with my new 20, I've got 5 1/2 grandkids and I know one of them would be happy with a new 870 compact.
Quote from: CALLM2U on January 17, 2020, 12:06:32 PM
Others may disagree, but I feel like unless you're going to drop to 2 3/4 in a 12, there isn't really a need to use TSS. TSS really shines with the smaller gauges.
I will agree and will add that TSS in 12 ga still outshines the smaller gauges on average when you drop down to 20 and 28 ga sized payloads (for example, 1-1/2 and 1-5/8 oz). Problem is you'll be hard pressed to find those commercially. Pretty much have to use hand loads.
Quote from: Greg Massey on January 17, 2020, 01:01:32 PM
Quote from: CALLM2U on January 17, 2020, 12:06:32 PM
Others may disagree, but I feel like unless you're going to drop to 2 3/4 in a 12, there isn't really a need to use TSS. TSS really shines with the smaller gauges.
X2 i agree ... just stick with what your using in the 12 ga.
X3. TSS has revolutionized sub gauge shooting and if I were switching to a 20 there wouldn`t be any question.
I just switched to 3 1/2" TSS. See why?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200118/4b8639459c4d32e777fed4b27c830695.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I guess im old and slow. Still using fed 3in #4. When i pull the trigger birds fold. I am experimenting with the Long Beard and like what i see. I do understand rolling your own tss has its advantage as you dont have to put up with manufacturer changing something that works for you. I have a friend who uses tss in a muzzleloader shotgun patterns are unreal and look like they can reach from here to Canada. :fud: To each his own.Good luck on your decision.
I tried TSS in Fed. and Apex and was impressed with the results, especially the Fed. thru a full choke. Like others have said, shoot what you like, lead, hevi or TSS. As long as you take the time to know your guns limitations and stay within that your good regardless.
Quote from: trkehunr93 on January 18, 2020, 09:17:06 AM
I tried TSS in Fed. and Apex and was impressed with the results, especially the Fed. thru a full choke. Like others have said, shoot what you like, lead, hevi or TSS. As long as you take the time to know your guns limitations and stay within that your good regardless.
I agree, Well said!
Should be good out to 100 with that pattern!
Quote from: YukonC on January 18, 2020, 08:16:13 AM
I just switched to 3 1/2" TSS. See why?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200118/4b8639459c4d32e777fed4b27c830695.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can`t argue with the effectiveness of TSS. It`s just a fact. Having said that, as far as lead loads are concerned and based on what I read, looks to me like the general consensus is that Winchester Longbeard XR leads the pack. It`s always been that and Hevi-13s #6 for me.
All in what you want. I wanted the best and wanted to load it myself to ensure quality control. From a killing stand point, at 40 yards your current setup will kill them without question.
Quote from: Old Timer on January 18, 2020, 09:08:52 AM
I guess im old and slow. Still using fed 3in #4. When i pull the trigger birds fold. I am experimenting with the Long Beard and like what i see. I do understand rolling your own tss has its advantage as you dont have to put up with manufacturer changing something that works for you. I have a friend who uses tss in a muzzleloader shotgun patterns are unreal and look like they can reach from here to Canada. :fud: To each his own.Good luck on your decision.
Me exactly.......
Quote from: RiverRoost on January 17, 2020, 11:41:11 AM
Shooting a SX3 longbeard in 12ga with Rhino choke and nitro H518. Throws pretty good patterns putting around 265 in a 10" at 40. Need to order more shells but curious if it's worth making the switch to TSS from the H518? My opinion is the tss big benefit is to move to a smaller gauge. What are yalls thoughts if I'm sticking with my 12?
I think you should stick to the 12 and LB. That is what I have been shooting and what I took my first slam with. I do however have a TC encore 50 cal muzzle loader.
Just for chuckles I purchased a 20g Turkey barrel for it. Bought some Federal TSS (shoots very hot in my 20g) and killed two nice Turkeys. But I enjoy Coyote and cat hunting just as much so I thought TSS in the larger size would work well. Problem is I could not find any TSS larger than 7.5. Set myself up to hand load TSS in #9 and #4 for Turkey and Coyote. I knew the #9 would work on Turkeys but was blown away at how effective #4 proved on Coyotes or should I say coyote as I have only killed one with the 20g and TSS. That Coyote dropped like a stone at 53 yards. Have pretty much stopped using my rifles.
Currently set up to load #9 and #4 TSS in both 20 and 12 g. However, as LB works so well in the 12 I am holding off of loading TSS in the 12. Just seems to be overkill.
Better performance from a more readily available ammo is never a bad thing.
Quote from: Spurs Up on January 17, 2020, 07:45:49 PM
Quote from: CALLM2U on January 17, 2020, 12:06:32 PM
Others may disagree, but I feel like unless you're going to drop to 2 3/4 in a 12, there isn't really a need to use TSS. TSS really shines with the smaller gauges.
I will agree and will add that TSS in 12 ga still outshines the smaller gauges on average when you drop down to 20 and 28 ga sized payloads (for example, 1-1/2 and 1-5/8 oz). Problem is you'll be hard pressed to find those commercially. Pretty much have to use hand loads.
1.1/2 oz. & 1 5/8oz. loads are indeed very readily available in 20 gauge...and yes the 12s will put more pellets in "the 10" than a 20 or 28 gauge simply because OF the larger payload. But if you're putting 250+ in the 10 with a 20 and then the 12 puts 350+ in the 10, as effective as the TSS pellets are at penetration aren't those 100+ extra pellets a waste? IMHO....ABSOLUTELY!!! Again, IMHO,IF a person wants to shoot a 12 with TSS loads any payload over 1 3/4 oz. (especially 9s) are a waste of pellets and money. The whole concept behind TSS is it's ability to let a person shoot a smaller gauge and lighter shotgun. Again....just my humble opinion.
Quote from: bbcoach on January 17, 2020, 12:18:49 PM
For most of us, we want the LATEST and GREATEST. Many birds were killed with 2 3/4" lead #4's. Then it was 3" and finally 3 1/2" lead. When lead was trumped by Hevi-13, a lot of us jumped on the 13 train. Then it was 15 and now TSS 18. All of this, LATEST and GREATEST, cost us money. What each of us have to do is decide, when do you stop the MADNESS. I jumped to Hevi 13 and found a load that will do way more than I'll every need to kill a bird at a respectable distance and not break the bank. For me, TSS is OVER KILL with 12 gauge ammo for turkey hunting. With 20 or .410's, it levels the playing field with 12 gauges. Only you can make that decision for you. For me, Hevi is ALL I'll every need in my 12. If I
go to a 20 someday, maybe TSS would be an option.
What you just said could not have been put into words any better!!! If the "bb" stands for basketball ,and you are the coach, and you coach as well as what you just put into words ,I'd bet my last dollar on your team every day of the week and twice on Sunday!!!!
Quote from: CALLM2U on January 17, 2020, 12:06:32 PM
Others may disagree, but I feel like unless you're going to drop to 2 3/4 in a 12, there isn't really a need to use TSS. TSS really shines with the smaller gauges.
What he said ??times ALOT!!!
Just as an aside in this discussion and FWIW. Hevi 13 does indeed include tungsten in the alloy that composes the shot. So, you are at least shooting SOME tungsten at a far lower price.
Quote from: RiverRoost on January 17, 2020, 12:37:35 PM
Quote from: bbcoach on January 17, 2020, 12:18:49 PM
For most of us, we want the LATEST and GREATEST. Many birds were killed with 2 3/4" lead #4's. Then it was 3" and finally 3 1/2" lead. When lead was trumped by Hevi-13, a lot of us jumped on the 13 train. Then it was 15 and now TSS 18. All of this, LATEST and GREATEST, cost us money. What each of us have to do is decide, when do you stop the MADNESS. I jumped to Hevi 13 and found a load that will do way more than I'll every need to kill a bird at a respectable distance and not break the bank. For me, TSS is OVER KILL with 12 gauge ammo for turkey hunting. With 20 or .410's, it levels the playing field with 12 gauges. Only you can make that decision for you. For me, Hevi is ALL I'll every need in my 12. If I go to a 20 someday, maybe TSS would be an option.
:morning: Well, I'm going to proclaim the virtues of Long Beard ammo. My guns all shoot it extremely well and I continue to hammer birds at my usual distances with no issues...
My thoughts exactly I guess I just needed to hear somebody else say it!ha
If I were using a 12ga I'd still use lead shot. But, I'm not trying to kill any further than I ever did.
I understand the patterning of the tss, but does it have the knock down power as regular lead?
Not knockdown, no. Lead hits them hard when you center the pattern. You can see it. TSS patterns are so dense they just perforate the nervous system such that the bird simply collapses on the spot.
Use what works for YOU........After almost 55 years I'm still with my original favorite, 2 3/4", 1 1/2oz #6 or #5, now in a Benelli Nova, Star Dot choke, .665.
Quote from: BINK McCARTY on January 29, 2020, 08:55:39 PM
Quote from: Spurs Up on January 17, 2020, 07:45:49 PM
Quote from: CALLM2U on January 17, 2020, 12:06:32 PM
Others may disagree, but I feel like unless you're going to drop to 2 3/4 in a 12, there isn't really a need to use TSS. TSS really shines with the smaller gauges.
I will agree and will add that TSS in 12 ga still outshines the smaller gauges on average when you drop down to 20 and 28 ga sized payloads (for example, 1-1/2 and 1-5/8 oz). Problem is you'll be hard pressed to find those commercially. Pretty much have to use hand loads.
1.1/2 oz. & 1 5/8oz. loads are indeed very readily available in 20 gauge...and yes the 12s will put more pellets in "the 10" than a 20 or 28 gauge simply because OF the larger payload. But if you're putting 250+ in the 10 with a 20 and then the 12 puts 350+ in the 10, as effective as the TSS pellets are at penetration aren't those 100+ extra pellets a waste? IMHO....ABSOLUTELY!!! Again, IMHO,IF a person wants to shoot a 12 with TSS loads any payload over 1 3/4 oz. (especially 9s) are a waste of pellets and money. The whole concept behind TSS is it's ability to let a person shoot a smaller gauge and lighter shotgun. Again....just my humble opinion.
I didn't intend to confuse but obviously did. What I was trying to communicate is that a 12 ga load of equal weight to that of a 20 ga (let's say both are 1.5 oz) will almost always outperform the 20 ga. But there are few commercially manufactured 12 ga TSS loads that light. Lots of options if you handload. And those light 12 ga loads, if you find them, make the 12 ga a great option.