Have you ever thought that a Southern sound in a Box Call tends to have a sweeter/clearer yelps & clucks, a moderate roll-over and not a lot of rasp, whereas, a Northern Box Call seems to have a harder roll-ver a deeper back end and thus more rasp to the yelps? Where this line of demarcation occurs isn't important, the callmakers who build them isn't important, but over the past 14 years of building them, I have noticed what seems to be a trend that leans toward these characteristics.
Thoughts...
Could this difference in sound very because of the geographic makeup of wild turkeys in the different regions of the species and states. I know some hunters like a clear yelp because of the region or state they are hunting. Others like a box with high pitch and heavy bark of the roll over with rasp. I think a lot of builder just try to hit a in between sound to suit most buyers. Older birds tend to have more vocal raspy and the younger hens tend to have a less rasp and clear voice. Interesting to say the least in the trends of what the builder is hearing and turning his boxes. Good post Scott...
I am the furthest thing from a call maker, but could the region where the wood used has differing climates and weather exposure conditions? This could lead to differing tones on the boxes? Or is it just the way the call makers from the 2 regions tune and make their calls?
Scott,
I've always thought that there was a difference in what a southern turkey hunter and a northern turkey hunter wanted in a call. BUT, I always thought it was the other way around. :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
I don't think it's a geographic variance or due to climatic differences, JMO. I suspect it's connected to the bloom of call making in the south, not sure of the time frame and what, at that time, the calllmakers thought was a good realistic sound. My understanding is the nothern callmakers 'lagged' behind those of the south in popularity, just be natural circumstance.
I actually find this interesting and also suspect it could be influenced by Neil Cost. I have run 5-6 of his calls in the past, both Box Calls and Paddle Calls and all had a much "softer" sound than what most callmakers build nowadays. Steve Mann, Lamar Williams, Darren Dawkins also seem to have similar southern clearer sounds in their calls. Last, it may also have a lot to do with the amount of Eastern Red Cedar they use, Neil as well. It's a lighter wood and almost every call I have heard with ERC, especially paddle calls were milder in sound.
I am not sure that North or South has any thing to do with call sounds. Plenty of people in the south use raspy calls and plenty of people up north use the cleaner sounding calls also. I have been hunting turkey's for 27 years now and I do like a box call, pot call and my mouth calls to have a nice clean sounding yelp to them.
I have had most of my success using these types of calls and have tried the more raspy calls with little to no success, I will say that I may not have giving enough time to using the raspy calls, but I have a lot of confidence in the calls I have used and therefore will use them on a regular basis. But I will end with saying that either a clean call or a raspy call the main thing I look for in one is that it has a really good 2 note yelp.
I hunt North South & West and prefer the cleaner yelps without all the Rasp or Yalk as it is often referred to.
I mainly hunt Alabama, Texas and Michigan.
Im in the deep south and I love rasp. If a call is not raspy I dont usually hunt it. From what I have seen , Northern turkey hunters for the most part has a faster tempo in their cadence , not all but the majority that I have listened to do.That beings said , maybe Southern hens talk like Southern people. A slow drawl. Lol.
I tend to like calls with less rasp than most. Most of the hens in my kneck of the woods aren't very raspy unless they are really leaning into their yelps. Doesn't hurt to have both options though.
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Quote from: Spitten and drummen on March 15, 2021, 06:12:58 PM
Im in the deep south and I love rasp. If a call is not raspy I dont usually hunt it. From what I have seen , Northern turkey hunters for the most part has a faster tempo in their cadence , not all but the majority that I have listened to do.That beings said , maybe Southern hens talk like Southern people. A slow drawl. Lol.
Love your last sentence. ;D
Being from about as south as you can get, I agree with West Augusta. People from the south used to prefer the Lynch or Neil Cost sound in a box call. Most of the Northern callers I have dealt with liked that clearer sounding box yelp. I have seen a change in the last couple of years in that southern callers are liking more of the northern sound. I think the change is due to youtube and the internet giving us the chance to hear something else. Years ago most everyone from the south wanted the deep two note raspy yelp because that was the only box call we had ever heard, but now it's changing. The sound the regional call makers were putting out before there were so many custom makers were what influenced what we wanted.
I personally agree with West Augusta and Larry. I and most of the guys I hunt with (MI) far prefer the higher sweeter "yelp" over the lower, raspier "yawlk".
Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on March 17, 2021, 08:31:47 AM
I personally agree with West Augusta and Larry. I and most of the guys I hunt with (MI) far prefer the higher sweeter "yelp" over the lower, raspier "yawlk".
Well, Mike, you can just send back that Walnut box call... :TooFunny:
I prefer a sweeter yelp over the low "yawk" personally. And I feel I get the former more reliably with a walnut box. Even if the lid isn't walnut, it's more likely to be on the "Yelp" side of the scale. Makes me wonder if walnut was more common among northern box call makers than in the south. As someone mentioned earlier, lots of cedar gets used down here.
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Quote from: Spitten and drummen on March 15, 2021, 06:12:58 PM
Im in the deep south and I love rasp. If a call is not raspy I dont usually hunt it. From what I have seen , Northern turkey hunters for the most part has a faster tempo in their cadence , not all but the majority that I have listened to do.That beings said , maybe Southern hens talk like Southern people. A slow drawl. Lol.
The tempo thing I believe is correct. These northerners talk way too fast. The women cackle even faster. They don't shut up either. God almighty it's bad
Well, Mike, you can just send back that Walnut box call... :TooFunny:
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Not doing it Scott, that box (bloodwood/walnut) is the ideal combination of starting a bit high and sweet and finishing with the rasp. Best of both worlds.
Tell you what , just make me one of both .. North and South .. that way i will have the best of both worlds..
Great analogy with Cost style calls, but what about Tom Turpin? Turpin style calls have that unique deep throat tone like down in the bottom of a 55 gallon drum sound with a super raspy backend. Also, no one talked about a nasal sounding call of which I like with a quick rollover to a yalky back end. That yalky backend can be used as a fall gobbler sound or a great gobble. That's my 2 cents and I'm sticking to it.
Quite the interesting discussion going on here. Frankly, I have never noticed anything other than folks in all areas of the country gravitate towards the calls and corresponding sounds they make based on their experiences in the woods.
One thing I will state with a great deal of conviction is that a lot of what turkey hunters think a turkey call (and turkeys themselves) should sound like has been overly influenced by the competition calling circuit and the sounds human judges think sound the best.
Here's my challenge to anybody that wants to take it: Go into the turkey woods,...or even easier, turn on any of the zillion or so turkey hunting videos on "the tube",...and start listening intently to the sounds that hen turkeys make. If you don't come away saying something to the affect that there is more variation in hen voices than there are exact similarities, then all I can tell you is that you have not been listening close enough.
The bottom line is that hen turkeys run a very wide spectrum of "how a hen turkey sounds". Turkey hunters pay waayyy too much attention to making "contest circuit sounds" and way too little attention to knowing what general sounds to make and when to make them when hunting. More often than not, the sound a particular call has is far less important than most folks think it is.
DWCIM & Gobblenut, this is good stuff. David...never meant to exclude Turpins or otherwise various other box calls and yes sir plenty of those turpins can be nasty growlers!
Gobblenut, you are sooo correct on listening. You have hit on a sensitive spot I suspect for some folks...the competition calling and competition calls and their understand of what REAL hens sound like. Hunting sounds and competition sounds...the water does get muddy and here again, the actual sounds are not, I agree with you, as important than to when, how you make them, the cadence, volume, tone and so on...these are most critical.
This is what I was hoping to get...opinions and a good discussion.
I'm not a box call expert although I do play around with pot calls quite a bit. Starting to get into boxes now and have ordered like 10 this year. In my opinion, I think easily more than 1/2 of boxes are too raspy. There probably is a difference between the hen you'd hear in the woods and the hen most people picture in their mind when they're running a box. I can't really speak for north vs south as much (other than the fact that I think turkey hunting is easier is up here), but there's probably more of a difference between merriams and easterns
Scott,
You are a class act and a master at the art of designing and crafting musical turkey instruments from wood. You started a great thread which I think involves many variables and so very few constants. The calls are the constants that the call maker puts into the hands of the player. The player has the variables to make it sound anyway they desire to a certain degree. A turkey call is designed by the call maker to mimic their interpretation sounds of a turkey and the hunter plays it to their personal interpretation of a turkey sounds, pitch's and cadence. Example: electric guitar constant and amplified sound variation and players style of playing and choice of song and sound variable. There is a slight variation in sound in most calls and no two players sound the same even playing the same call. Today we may love a certain sound and tomorrow we may change our mind about that sound. A wild turkey does the same thing. He may like a certain sound today and want something else tomorrow. Variation is what keeps us players chasing the ultimate call and adding calls to our collection.
IMO it really does not matter what I think sounds good. It matters what the turkeys think sound good. I have boxes that are raspy and boxes that are clear and high pitched. I try to carry both. ;D
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 18, 2021, 09:17:24 AM
The bottom line is that hen turkeys run a very wide spectrum of "how a hen turkey sounds". Turkey hunters pay waayyy too much attention to making "contest circuit sounds" and way too little attention to knowing what general sounds to make and when to make them when hunting. More often than not, the sound a particular call has is far less important than most folks think it is.
Sage.
Very sage.
Scott,
This is a great discussion. I have thought this for several years. I noticed it several years ago.
What I found is a difference in the size of the calls between North/South. I won't go into specifics. But, I have a dear friend who was struggling with the sound of his long boxes, and couldn't figure out why. I had been telling him he was building a northern sized box, while looking for a southern sound. I eventually showed him at a show. I compared his box to another callmakers so he could see the difference.
Patrick
Quote from: KYTURKEY on March 23, 2021, 06:36:02 PM
Scott,
This is a great discussion. I have thought this for several years. I noticed it several years ago.
What I found is a difference in the size of the calls between North/South. I won't go into specifics. But, I have a dear friend who was struggling with the sound of his long boxes, and couldn't figure out why. I had been telling him he was building a northern sized box, while looking for a southern sound. I eventually showed him at a show. I compared his box to another callmakers so he could see the difference.
Patrick
Whose long boxes are more packable? :D
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