Just read an article about the decline of hunters. The face of hunting is changing, we all know this but the animal population isn't slowing down. Some claim one way to combat the decline of hunters for the growing Whitetail population of 30 million would be to legalize the sale of venison. Meaning special permits for non hunting take of wildlife. Don't know about venison sales happening anytime soon in IL but we do pay state employees overtime to shoot deer at night in "CWD" zone. Seems like the refusal to delist Wolves,CWD nonsense, combined with other poor wildlife agency decisions isn't helping. In IL our youth seasons are a joke. Kids get the two weekends before the season opener for Spring turkey. Youth deer gun season is Columbus day weekend. Seems like Big kids are saying "We offer a youth season but NOT during prime time." Kids won't have a good time in poor at best conditions. Also,the I only shoot trophy animals takes the fun away.You never see a hunting show with kids squirrel hunting or learning to trap eather. More outdoor opportunity lost. Living in the midwest, I doubt I will ever see the lose of game or hunting that some states are just seeing the start of. But I also don't like the thought of our heritage being lost. We are very blessed living in the USA.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
In the east they claim the same thing, but the big picture is no where to go due to development and landowner inheriteders (younger generation that want let you hunt) and if you choose to go you better have big $$ to pay your way. $40 dollar and acre leases aren't worth it and your average hunter can't afford it anyways.
Overall here in New England there is a lot of competition for time. There is always a sport or activity going on and most don't take the $$$ that hunting and outdoor sports take. Laziness and apathy are also wayyyyy higher. There isn't the fathers to take their kids hunting also. I take all that I can't try to keep the fires burning here. But, most hunters I see are older like me, not a lot of young people out here. I saw 2 other hunters on youth weekend.
The lease......same story throughout Whitetail land.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Use to have 12 farms for turkey hunting, down to 2 and im not shy about asking for permission. Old time farmers are getting fewer. But not is all lost we got a few of the younger ones in church introduced to the outdoors and im impressed on the interest they have taken. And one young fellow takes me now and has dragged a couple of deer out for me. So i think its up to us to get the younger generation out. God bless
The Pennsylvania game commission recently hired a well known Turkey hunter/TV hunting show host, for marketing the Pa game commission. I suppose it's a good thing in a way, but it shows how hard its getting to recruit new hunters. I'm thankful my children love the outdoors. We live the outdoor lifestyle, we literally live off of wild game. Its ashame but things are changing. One of the things I think is hurting hunting is the outdoor TV shows. Instant gratification is what the young hunters seem to want, and as mentioned above, the trophy hunting aspect. Everyone wants a big buck etc, or it's not worth it. This mentality makes me sick.
I always take new hunters. Ever person in my family except my youngest has taken game. I take my nieces and nephews as well as friends kids out every year. My goal is not so much to make die hard hunters but to at least cultivate an understanding of hunting as well as show the relationship that hunters play in supporting a healthy wildlife population as opposed to the bubba beer swilling idiots that the media tends to portray. (Not that the Bubba beer swilling idiots dont exist.) Unfortunately hunting property is hard to find for many and that's a shame. I am blessed to have plenty to hunt and live right next to state forest land. I also have two private farms but I have yet to hunt them just because I enjoy hunting the leases and public land so much. It's funny how many cry about crowded public land yet also complain about a lack of hunters joining our ranks. In all honesty if we quit focusing on ourselves and look at the bigger picture we would be much better off. Take kids hunting and fishing. Teach them right from wrong and to love the outdoors. Make things fun and Interesting. It will not be a negative influence on their life at all. When my my wife and I got married not a single one of her immediate family members hunted or fished. Now deer and Turkey is requested for meals when they come over and several have killed deer themselves. Funny how the right kind of exposure can swing things around.
In my opinion , hunting property is the biggest thing to blame. When you have leases of 5000 acres and 5 members hunting it. It is what it is. You pay to play or go home. The way of the world now.
That is true to an extent. However the leases I am on are more crowded than the public land around me. I would bet the majority of hunters have access to plenty of public land. Yeah you may have to work harder and be a little smarter but there is still good hunting to be had for those who are willing to work for it.
I hate to be a pessimist but I think the future of hunting doesn't bode well for a number of reasons. I read some time ago whereas hunters who quit hunting were questioned as to why. The two main reasons were that they had nobody to hunt with and no place to hunt. Nobody to hunt with?...their buddies either quit or died. No place to hunt?...posted lands whereas in most cases farms were sold and new younger land owners won't let anybody hunt. Now...don't tell me that there are thousands of acres of state lands to hunt....I know that. But in most cases they're overhunted already...at least back east here. Getting the youth involved...just about every conservation department in every state has youth seasons to encourage young hunters. However, if they have no quality place to hunt they will soon lose interest...again, as mentioned previously by others, that instant gratification factor which is paramount with today's youth. Granted, many of you have children or grandchildren who will carry on the hunting tradition...but you and they are in the minority. Try to get the "average" youth these days to sit for several hours for a deer or turkey...and a number of days not encounter either...versus play their never ending sports, electronic games or hanging out with buddies. No brainer for them.
Personally, I lost two excellent turkey hunting spots this year. The first spot...large farm sold to a young couple who don't hunt but will not let anybody hunt their property...they don't hunt either. Second spot, farmer died, land sold and same scenario as the first. Just the way it is.
Personally, I have not seen a decline in my home state of Georgia. That could be because of the high numbers of move ins over the last 30 years.
What I do see is less young people hunting, less than 30, and that will cause a huge drop in the next decade or so.
I think there are multiple factors involved.
1. High cost to lease land. Georgia has always been a "lease" state, but prices have gotten higher each year.
2. QDM. Trophy hunting being forced upon youngsters is destroying the sport. I cut my teeth on any buck is a good one, now everyone expects to see the pedigree and pictures of the buck to verify that it is mature before it is "harvested" ( I despise that term and will not use it, harvesting is for vegetables)
3. Phones, laptops, computers. Why hunt the real thing when I can virtually hunt from the A/C.
4. The need to succeed and competition among hunters.
I could make tons more reasons.
I too live in Georgia. I liked Turkey hunting better in the late 70s and through the 80s. No one turkey hunted to speak of and the ones that did kept their mouths shut.
Far cry from today.
The hunting tradition as we older guys know it is gradually losing steam,...and for many of the reasons already mentioned. Urbanization and the changing attitudes that have accompanied it are a key cause, as are the myriad interests and distractions for all of us that exist in today's society that were non-existent "way back when". Add to that the decreasing "connection" of the newer generations with the land and its wildlife,...and then mix in the constant drum beat of the animal rights folks that hunting and the killing of animals is bad,...regardless of its necessity as a wildlife management tool,...and here we are.
Fortunately, the general public still accepts hunting as the one wildlife management tool we use to control wildlife populations. I personally don't expect that to change anytime soon. I believe our society will reach an equilibrium at some point where the folks most dedicated to the hunting tradition will remain,...if for no other reason than to act as a balance between people and the necessity of keeping wildlife at acceptable numbers.
Unfortunately, on the other hand, that "hunter dedication" is quickly becoming a function of opportunity afforded by affluence and/or personal connections. Here in New Mexico, more and more hunting opportunity is being siphoned directly into the hands of those types,...even on public land,...while the general hunting public sits on the sidelines and watches. I suspect that same phenomenon is occurring all over the country.
I personally find it very disheartening that the very system that our forefathers rebelled against in the "old world" where the kings, lords, and the chosen few hunted while the peasants watched is happening right here and now before our own eyes. As such, I am not so sure I would want the future generation of "peasants" in this country to even take up our cherished life style. Perhaps it's better if they just play soccer and video games.... >:( :(
In the 90's on my families property we had an agreement with all the surrounding land owners. I can your place you can hunt mine. I could walk in any direction and exhaust myself before turning around. When we crossed paths with the neighbors we'd sit down and talk about anything. Family, trophy deer or turkey we saw or just good time BS'ing, making each other laugh having a good time.
Today? Don't you dare step on my land. I can come on your land and give you grief about all the things I thing you do wrong. Target shooting, why are you mowing grass now, shooting does, not planting food plots etc. etc.
Reality is there is less and less land to hunt. In turn that bring out the worst in people.
Lots of good points to agree with. The instant gratification of TV hunting on premium grounds with large bucks and many turkey does some harm for new hunters. When some kids get to go they expect that on their hunts. It is what they see on TV and YouTube.
When some don't get that they loose interest. Same goes for some new hunter adults.
For some more hunters , the private ground is locked up by family or by the ever price increasing leases.
Public ground in Missouri, the northern part anyway is very crowded during deer and turkey seasons.
Not much game left on those places. Turkey populations in serious decline.
No bucks under 4 points per side and no does with firearms , some areas no does with bow either. That makes for a very tough hunt .
I know and also have met a lot of people with no decent place to hunt. I see more getting out of hunting in the future.
I really don't think social/political correctness (anti hunting sentiment) will sink our boat. The most critical think is access to land and distractions for youth. A few years ago I thought hollywood could severely damage us, but one of the big upside to our sport today is actually TV shows like Swamp People, Mountainmen, Alaska The last Frontier and even Duck Dynasty....to mention a few. They have brought a huge state of understanding to the misinformed public in my opinion. In the last three years I have lost access to almost 1,000 acres I hunted all my life. All the land went either under lease or was purchased by young "stay off my land younger generation". Oh those same people regularly show up riding an ATV on our land or dragging a kayak across our land to the river. They have since learned the lesson, "If I ain't welcome on your land stay the hell off mine"!
I cant speak for you guys elsewhere ....but all I can say is I hope what has happened in Florida takes a very long time to happen to you .....
We have 22 million people living here mostly in the southern peninsula.....the changes we have seen in the last 40 years has been depressing
The bulldozer (land development)is your enemy, not only does it take away land , it brings highways and strains on resources like water supply ....waterfowl , Turkey and deer have done a nosedive ....
The remaining hunters get more competitive, prices for leases go up , hunters travel to neighboring states in a quest to find suitable hunting..and that creates competition for resources leases....
...lots of folks have coined the term "Instagram hunters " we are getting a new breed of hunters that shoot take pictures and post them up for instant gratification from thier peer group ..hunt.or fish cause you LIKE TO HUNT AND FISH....if you dont get anything , that's fine , some of the best hunts I've ever been on I didnt get anything , being in the outdoors is the reward ....sit back and think about it adopt a new a fresh attitude, and your hunting will be more enjoyable
...back to Instagram. Noticed on Fox News ... nothing more fake than these millenial phonies taking fake show off vacations in rented villas with rented Bugatti cars ...taking stupid pictures on cliff tops , hanging over dangerous obstacles...taking pictures on private jets and yachts that could never been theirs....just so they can take pictures and impress thier fake millenial friends......let us not adopt that attitude towars hunting and fishing , its stupid
If you have too many deer --turkeys-- ducks .... invite friends to come and ENJOY EVERY MOMENT OF it while you can , before it goes (Florida ) on you
Shannon
Most of the guys on O.G. live in the eastern part of the country. I suspect a lot of you are not aware of the increasing problem of access to public lands in the western states and its impact on hunting opportunity. Roughly twelve million acres of public land, either federal (10 million) or state (2 million) are inaccessible to the public (you and me) that owns it.
More and more, public lands are being made inaccessible by greedy landowners and corporate entities that are locking up historic public routes to public lands. We're not talking about private landowners protecting their private property rights, fellers. We're talking about public roads being locked up that access public lands by unscrupulous private property owners that intentionally look for loopholes in easements and such to find excuses to lock roads and create their own private playgrounds.
Unfortunately, state and local governments are complicit,...often siding with private entities over the interest of the public. In addition, public land management agencies,....those that are supposed to represent all of us,...are sitting idly by watching this happen without even raising a finger in protest.
I won't even get into the issue of state's converting PUBLIC hunting permits to hunt PUBLICALLY-OWNED wildlife on PUBLIC lands to private entities. That is happening, too,...but is a discussion for another time.
Is it any wonder why hunters are quitting and discouraging their kids from taking it up when they see stuff like that happening?
I have (3) boys that all play sports every season in addition to scouts, church and friends/family visits. Thankfully they are not too busy to run the mink line with me, flush and fire the blank gun over the pointers, bucktail the surf or cut the mushrooms. They have grown up with it and know the importance of throwing hay for farmers or posting boundaries as favors in return for our permissions. They also respect the game and environment while understanding that cheddar jalapeno venison sausage, goose pastrami, pickled ramps or smoked spring suckerfish is more important than tailgate photos or hero shots on "the gram". There are a lot of clubs, groups and workshops out there that do their best exposing kids to hunting, fishing and trapping. However it is up to the guardians to continue to expose them to it.
Speaking of getting new hunters involved, what are everyone's thoughts on hunter education requirements? In NM, after someone reaches 18, they are no longer required to have hunter education. Any Yahoo can go buy a license and go hunting. They may not have a clue about respect for wildlife, wildlife management, ethics, or gun safety,...but they can just go huntin' if they decide they want to.
A big part of our hunter image problem is letting people that "don't have a clue" buy a hunting license, then head to the woods to "shoot somethin'". Personally, I don't want those types out there,...I don't care if they are adding to the total number of hunters so we can "count" them as hunters. Most times, I think they are the ones throwing beer cans out the car window, shooting road signs, shooting at animals on private property, shooting at whatever moves,...and so on.
For me, if somebody wants to go hunting, they should have to "jump through some hoops" to get that privilege. I am okay with mentoring programs for youth when supervised, but at some point, anybody that is allowed to hunt must go through, and pass, some sort of "official" training program that exposes them to the idea of responsible hunting and game management theory.
Tired of losing places to hunt? Are you aware of the Republican Party stance on transferring federally owned lands (national forests, BLM) to the states? Are you aware of your state's Republican Party stance on selling state owned land? I don't like posting anything about politics and maybe it's not even allowed here, but you should be aware of the biggest threat to the public lands you can hunt on. Where are you going to hunt if federal land is transferred to the states and the states sell that land to private owners? My state has sold over half the land it owns in the last 100 years. If you like access to public lands you might be voting for your worst enemy. Try reading this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2100586/fact-checking-gops-plan-steal-your-public-land
In FLA, between the overdevelopment of land, overpopulation of the state, competition for land with wealthy businessmen where the Average Joe always loses, outfitters gobbling up every bit of land they can for ridiculously priced Osceola hunts, poor deer hunting and chronic mismanagement of the resources and land by FWC, hunting is definitely on a downhill slide in FLA.
Unless you are wealthy, if you can find affordable land to hunt, the hunting on most places that an Average Joe can afford will suck. So you either know a friend with decent hunting land, or you hunt crappy public hunts.
Personally, I cannot wait to move out of Florida.
Most of the rest of the south will catch up with Florida in the next 30 Years. The bottom line is all these issues are because we have too many damn people in this world. it's that simple.
2.5 million people added in this country each year. Over 2 million acres of land lost to development each year. Do some simple math, and it's pretty easy to see what the future holds.
Like stated above, you're going to need some big bucks $$ if you want to hunt in peace. Osceola hunts will cost as much as an elk hunt in the next 10 years. Otherwise you'll be stuck on public land with countless of other Hunters right on top of you. Most will quit hunting.
Personally, I think that hunting and meat consumption in general will be a thing of the past in 50-75 years.
Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
Quote from: GobbleNut on July 07, 2019, 11:32:21 AM
Speaking of getting new hunters involved, what are everyone's thoughts on hunter education requirements? In NM, after someone reaches 18, they are no longer required to have hunter education. Any Yahoo can go buy a license and go hunting. They may not have a clue about respect for wildlife, wildlife management, ethics, or gun safety,...but they can just go huntin' if they decide they want to.
A big part of our hunter image problem is letting people that "don't have a clue" buy a hunting license, then head to the woods to "shoot somethin'". Personally, I don't want those types out there,...I don't care if they are adding to the total number of hunters so we can "count" them as hunters. Most times, I think they are the ones throwing beer cans out the car window, shooting road signs, shooting at animals on private property, shooting at whatever moves,...and so on.
For me, if somebody wants to go hunting, they should have to "jump through some hoops" to get that privilege. I am okay with mentoring programs for youth when supervised, but at some point, anybody that is allowed to hunt must go through, and pass, some sort of "official" training program that exposes them to the idea of responsible hunting and game management theory.
I know I will not be liked for this but I completely agree with you. I think hunter education/hunter safety courses should be mandatory, I thought they were in every state but found out when I got my trappers course last year that they are not. They do not charge for them so I see no reason to object to them. Stats show that it is the older hunters that are involved in hunting "incidents" that may not have ever had to take a course or that have and have just become complacent. For this reason I often sit in on courses when I take my friends kids to courses to reinforce what I have already learned and to update myself on anything new that may have changed.
Quote from: FL-Boss on July 07, 2019, 02:03:28 PM
Most of the rest of the south will catch up with Florida in the next 30 Years. The bottom line is all these issues are because we have too many damn people in this world. it's that simple.
2.5 million people added in this country each year. Over 2 million acres of land lost to development each year. Do some simple math, and it's pretty easy to see what the future holds.
Like stated above, you're going to need some big bucks $$ if you want to hunt in peace. Osceola hunts will cost as much as an elk hunt in the next 10 years. Otherwise you'll be stuck on public land with countless of other Hunters right on top of you. Most will quit hunting.
Personally, I think that hunting and meat consumption in general will be a thing of the past in 50-75 years.
Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
I agree in part but not in whole, to much development yes, but only because nobody is redeveloping buildings and such that are no longer in use, get more of that going on and we will not lose as much.
I live in southwest Georgia and we are the land of the lease. It's almost impossible to get a place to hunt on private land with out paying. Due to some of the reasons posted earlier, we have a huge influx of Florida hunters that are willing to pay to hunt, so unless you are a local willing to pay, you are out. I really can't blame a landowner for taking in more income, if for no other reason than to help with property taxes. I saw this trend coming several years ago and decided I would buy my own small place to hunt. Instead of buying fancy new trucks, big boats, paying expensive outfitters or leases fees, I decided to put this money toward land of my own. I have worked a part time second job for the last 20 years to make my land payment. My place is small, 155 acres.
It is in no way the greatest place to hunt in our area, but it's mine. ( I say mine, but it's really just a blessing I pay to enjoy.) I have really enjoyed making the habitat better and seeing the wildlife populations increase. We also live on the property so it is super convenient to maintain and enjoy. I don't own any stocks or bonds. Land has been my major investment. We live here, hunt on it, ride the golf cart on it, shoot skeet, camp, trap, fish and just overall enjoy the place. It's been a great place to raise my kids. It's been hard at times to pay for, but I have always managed to get by some how. ( There again the blessing.) Do we kill a bunch of huge deer and a lot of turkeys? No, but it's much better than having no where to enjoy. My advice to people that enjoy the outdoors that are able to make it work, is buy land. I started off with 15 acres, then bought 42, then 78, then 20. I did it a little at a time over 20 years. I started with zero acres. I know everyone is not able or willing to do this, but some may be. Hopefully this may inspire someone to do the same if they possibly can. I at least have a place to hunt until I die, as long as health and interest is there, or until hunting is a thing of the past. I know this is not the solution for every one that has posted on this subject but it might be something to think about. It worked here in Georgia where land prices are not as high as they are in other states. That also is a very big factor, land prices and availability. Hope this helps somebody. Larry
This is my second post on this thread and, although none of us want to be on the wrong side of the turf, I'm glad I'm 74 and not 4. I grew up through the best era of this country being born post WWII. I feel for my grandchildren and beyond. It doesn't bode well...and not just from the hunting aspect.
I hate to say it , but I agree with you Turkeyman. I am 55 and am scared for my 20 and 17 year old children.
Hunting is all about passing on a heritage to the next generation. As a kid hunting was adventure and exciting with mostly all family members , you owned the land , and new your neighbors on the next farm and NO one had a NO hunting sign on there property. As far as i'm concerned, the golden days of hunting are gone. Back in the golden years you could buy 500 ac. farm for couple thousand. That 500 ac now will cost you 200,000 - 400, 000 back in the golden days owning land was just as much heritage as hunting was to us young kids. We made a living off the farm. It's all now about a shifting society and the reality that hunting is really changing with less people owning land and less people taking kids hunting. Agree it's a lot harder now finding land to hunting. As hunters that still have places available to hunt, i think it's a good idea to get kids involved in the sport of hunting. We still have a future in hunting, we just have to make the best of the times. So let's Keep on hunting and get people involved with the sport. Take a neighbor's kid hunting, take them to hunting expo , take them fishing , take them to the NWTF convention in Nashville , it's all about involvement in the sport, the future is our's in helping the future of hunting...
Skinny Jean's and manbuns are taking over. Between that, tweeter, Facebook instaglam and metube it doesn't bode well for hunting. Far more detrimental than helpful as a general rule. Really wish we where stuck in the 70's and 80's as far as communicational technology is concerned.
Quote from: larry9988 on July 07, 2019, 03:53:51 PM
I live in southwest Georgia and we are the land of the lease. It's almost impossible to get a place to hunt on private land with out paying. Due to some of the reasons posted earlier, we have a huge influx of Florida hunters that are willing to pay to hunt, so unless you are a local willing to pay, you are out. I really can't blame a landowner for taking in more income, if for no other reason than to help with property taxes. I saw this trend coming several years ago and decided I would buy my own small place to hunt. Instead of buying fancy new trucks, big boats, paying expensive outfitters or leases fees, I decided to put this money toward land of my own. I have worked a part time second job for the last 20 years to make my land payment. My place is small, 155 acres.
It is in no way the greatest place to hunt in our area, but it's mine. ( I say mine, but it's really just a blessing I pay to enjoy.) I have really enjoyed making the habitat better and seeing the wildlife populations increase. We also live on the property so it is super convenient to maintain and enjoy. I don't own any stocks or bonds. Land has been my major investment. We live here, hunt on it, ride the golf cart on it, shoot skeet, camp, trap, fish and just overall enjoy the place. It's been a great place to raise my kids. It's been hard at times to pay for, but I have always managed to get by some how. ( There again the blessing.) Do we kill a bunch of huge deer and a lot of turkeys? No, but it's much better than having no where to enjoy. My advice to people that enjoy the outdoors that are able to make it work, is buy land. I started off with 15 acres, then bought 42, then 78, then 20. I did it a little at a time over 20 years. I started with zero acres. I know everyone is not able or willing to do this, but some may be. Hopefully this may inspire someone to do the same if they possibly can. I at least have a place to hunt until I die, as long as health and interest is there, or until hunting is a thing of the past. I know this is not the solution for every one that has posted on this subject but it might be something to think about. It worked here in Georgia where land prices are not as high as they are in other states. That also is a very big factor, land prices and availability. Hope this helps somebody. Larry
Good post. I'm in the same boat in SC.
I live in a neighborhood that has a large public hunting area right behind it, its actually right behind my house-it hasn't gotten any smaller or harder to access it's still right there. I have at least 15 tree stands back there and pretty much have the place to myself. Iv'e always worried as new kids moved into the neighborhood that they would take an interest in the woods and maybe interfere with my hunting but in 15 years it hasn't happened yet. Plenty of kids in the area they just don't play in the woods anymore. I also build houses for a living and used to have to worry about forming up a foundation and leaving it set for awhile b4 I poured concrete, in the old days kids would play in the footers and unfortunately mess them up. These days its not a problem, I can form them up and let them sit over the weekend. it's not that kids are better behaved -their not-it's just that they don't play out side anymore. They're indoors playing video games or whatever there doing in there. Folk that cant find a place to hunt or fish usually aren't looking very hard.
Your right dirtnap, buy whatever you can make work. On an economic bases it is the best investment and it is the best way to have a place to hunt. I bought our small farm almost 30 years ago and live on it too. I have managed it and with planned select timber cuts I payed for more than half the farm and there is still the same value left in timber. I run a maple syrup operation off it too for a little income. I used to do hay but not any more.
Quote from: idgobble on July 07, 2019, 12:11:00 PM
Tired of losing places to hunt? Are you aware of the Republican Party stance on transferring federally owned lands (national forests, BLM) to the states? Are you aware of your state's Republican Party stance on selling state owned land? I don't like posting anything about politics and maybe it's not even allowed here, but you should be aware of the biggest threat to the public lands you can hunt on. Where are you going to hunt if federal land is transferred to the states and the states sell that land to private owners? My state has sold over half the land it owns in the last 100 years. If you like access to public lands you might be voting for your worst enemy. Try reading this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2100586/fact-checking-gops-plan-steal-your-public-land
Right on the money idgobble. I can tell you are a fellow westerner that has been dealing with this issue. Fortunately, it seems to have settled down a bit for now. The important point to be made is not so much one of party affiliation (although it has been one-sided, for sure) but that the entire concept of liquidating federally-owned lands is bad for not only hunters, but for all recreational users.
Too much BS is being spread by the folks that want to get rid of our federal lands. The drum-beat they use that the feds want to "lock us out" is total hogwash. Yet, those that don't know any better are buying it just because there is an "R" behind the name.
We had a congressman here that was one of the main proponents of giving away our public lands. The operative word there is "had". We, the voters, told him just how we felt about his support for that plan!
Folks, you do not want to support the give-away of your federally-owned public lands, period. If that issue raises its ugly head again, make sure you tell the appropriate people that loud and clear.
Access to land for hunting is probably the biggest impediment to future hunting along with the other points that have been made in previous posts. The issue of transfer of land from Federal owned to state owned or sell off to private ownership is certainly an issue here is the west. It started the Sagebrush rebellion and has continued on and off to the present. The states do not have good track records dealing with public land, about ten years ago the state parks were temporary closed due to lack of funding, they have reopened,but it certainly makes you wonder what the politician would have done if they had Federal Land at their disposal.
It only takes one jerk politician and they can do a lot of damage before you can vote them out. we just went through that with Kasich in Ohio, he made a train wreck out of our wildlife fund and DNR. During his tenure many of the state forest were timbered very hard and our wildlife fund was depleted for pet projects. Those were forest that had only been select cut very carefully. Many were huge big open timber stands and are now brush. Up until the last few years our forest were run great, but one administration took care of that.
Quote from: NCL on July 08, 2019, 08:56:34 AM
Access to land for hunting is probably the biggest impediment to future hunting along with the other points that have been made in previous posts. The issue of transfer of land from Federal owned to state owned or sell off to private ownership is certainly an issue here is the west. It started the Sagebrush rebellion and has continued on and off to the present. The states do not have good track records dealing with public land, about ten years ago the state parks were temporary closed due to lack of funding, they have reopened,but it certainly makes you wonder what the politician would have done if they had Federal Land at their disposal.
Many of the legislators in my state are proud to be members of movements similar to the Sagebrush Rebellion crowd. They use different names now but a few still call themselves Sagebrush Rebellion. They are very open about their plans to sell any public lands they can get their hands on and want the Federal lands turned over to the states. The most alarming part of all this, to me, is that outdoor recreationists vote for these crackpots.
James Watt was the big proponent of all Federal holdings being sold off to ranching and timber interests. Last year one of the large state held lands in Oregon was sold to a timber company. What I read, want to be clear I do not have first hand knowledge, was the first thing the timber company was gate the holdings which had been utilized by elk hunters. The number one reason I hear when I ask permission on private ground is I am afraid of being sued if something happens. A new one I heard this Spring is that insurance companies are starting to abandon the area and thus are canceling policies for any reason including hunting. The person that told me about this wanted to allow me to hunt on his property but was afraid if his insurance company found out he would be canceled and then not be able to find a policy. To put this in context there were two very large and devastating fires in this area last Summer which is why they do not want to write policies for the area.
So the Republicans want to sell off your hunting land and the Democrats want to take your guns. Looks like you're screwed. Save the last bullet for yourself.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: NCL on July 09, 2019, 01:05:09 PM
The number one reason I hear when I ask permission on private ground is I am afraid of being sued if something happens. A new one I heard this Spring is that insurance companies are starting to abandon the area and thus are canceling policies for any reason including hunting. The person that told me about this wanted to allow me to hunt on his property but was afraid if his insurance company found out he would be canceled and then not be able to find a policy. To put this in context there were two very large and devastating fires in this area last Summer which is why they do not want to write policies for the area.
Quite honestly, someone telling you that they can't allow you to hunt because of liability issues related to their insurance is either 1) just blowing smoke up your a$$, or 2) needs to be told to find a better insurance company. We own property on which we host hunters every year. I specifically discussed the liability concerns with our insurance carrier and was assured that allowing hunting (which is statistically one of the safest recreational pastimes there is) was not a concern.
Now, we do require a release of liability document to be signed, but that is just an additional peace-of-mind thing we do so that our guests understand that we are not liable if something were to happen. Perhaps we hunters should carry one of those whenever we are seeking permission to hunt someone's property and just whip it out when they start talking liability issues just so we can see what their next excuse is going to be. ;) ;D
Quote from: snoodcrusher on July 09, 2019, 08:59:45 PM
So the Republicans want to sell off your hunting land and the Democrats want to take your guns. Looks like you're screwed. Save the last bullet for yourself.
I am still somewhat concerned about the first (although less so right now than I was last year at this time), and I am not at all concerned about the second. However, if either one becomes a reality, I can assure you there will be a lot more than one bullet expended! ;D
In Ohio there is a law that you can not be sued by someone as a result of giving permission for hunting activities. The liability is a non issue. Now if you lease or charge then it's a business and you are subject to liability claims. Of course gross negligence over rules everything. If you run over a hunter with your tractor, your getting sued
I think the main concern with most land owner's not giving you permission, they feel you will not respect the property. I don't think it's so much thinking you will sue them. But i think it's a good point to have a liability forum, relieving the owner of any liabilities ... let the land owner know you will help him around the farm or property and also with predator problems.
Quote from: GobbleNut on July 09, 2019, 11:33:48 PM
Quote from: NCL on July 09, 2019, 01:05:09 PM
The number one reason I hear when I ask permission on private ground is I am afraid of being sued if something happens. A new one I heard this Spring is that insurance companies are starting to abandon the area and thus are canceling policies for any reason including hunting. The person that told me about this wanted to allow me to hunt on his property but was afraid if his insurance company found out he would be canceled and then not be able to find a policy. To put this in context there were two very large and devastating fires in this area last Summer which is why they do not want to write policies for the area.
Quite honestly, someone telling you that they can't allow you to hunt because of liability issues related to their insurance is either 1) just blowing smoke up your a$$, or 2) needs to be told to find a better insurance company. We own property on which we host hunters every year. I specifically discussed the liability concerns with our insurance carrier and was assured that allowing hunting (which is statistically one of the safest recreational pastimes there is) was not a concern.
Now, we do require a release of liability document to be signed, but that is just an additional peace-of-mind thing we do so that our guests understand that we are not liable if something were to happen. Perhaps we hunters should carry one of those whenever we are seeking permission to hunt someone's property and just whip it out when they start talking liability issues just so we can see what their next excuse is going to be. ;) ;D
Actually when I was talking with him the search for a new carrier is what brought up the liability issue. He said his insurance broker told him that carriers were not offering coverage in the area due to the large losses they took on the two huge wild fires here last year. He said any activity including hunting could cause cancellation of his policy and he would have a very difficult time finding a new one. I know the guy from my fly fishing club so I do not believe he was blowing smoke it was a genuine concern. As to waiver of liability forms. I have talked with an attorney about waiver of liability forms and was advised they are basically not valid as you can not waive liability.
Quote from: NCL on July 10, 2019, 04:20:57 AM
As to waiver of liability forms. I have talked with an attorney about waiver of liability forms and was advised they are basically not valid as you can not waive liability.
Of course, you are correct about this,...in the "official" legal sense. My agreements are of more of a "personal nature" between me and whoever I am allowing to hunt. When I look someone in the eye and tell them if I allow them to hunt they are making a contract with me personally, they get the picture. A breech of our agreement will not be settled in a court of law!
I am one of those types that if you and I agree to something, I will hold up my end of the bargain,....and you best hold up yours,...insurance companies and lawyers be damned. Making that clear up front seems to lessen the possibility of misunderstandings considerably. ...Then again, it also makes those folks that might have "nefarious intentions" think twice about wanting to screw with me.
Perhaps you have seen the T-shirt with the slogan: "Don't mess with me. I have reached the age where life in prison isn't all that much of a deterrent". I really don't have that attitude (yet),...but I can sure bluff my way through it! ;D
:newmascot: :toothy9: :toothy9: :newmascot:
GN,
You and I are on the exactly the same page philosophically. I grew up that your word is your bond and if you shake hands on a deal you had better stick to the deal. If there is a misunderstanding then we sit down and figure put a reasonable solution. I always viewed permission to hunt someone's property was a gift and a very generous gift, to me more valuable than money because it denoted they trusted you to respect them and their property.
I have been thinking about the responses in this thread for the last few hours and realized much of my perspective is colored by the high degree of urbanization that has occurred in this area. When I was growing up it was mostly timber/lumber and agriculture/ranching. Although they still both exist they are not the influence they were 50 years ago. Most of the ranches back then were large and owned by families that had been here for several generations. Many of those ranches have been sold off and converted to small parcels of land with a single family dwelling. Many that purchased these small parcels are from the larger urban areas that want to get away from the hustle and bustle grow a garden and smell the fresh air. Unfortunately, many of these transplants do not share the early life experiences of good hunting and fishing that I grew up experiencing. When I was growing up it was not uncommon to see ranching trucks parked down at the local watering holes with window racks with a couple of rifles or shotguns. Have not seen that in years. Well get off my soapbox.
Quote from: GobbleNut on July 10, 2019, 08:20:12 AM
I have reached the age where life in prison isn't all that much of a deterrent".
I doubt at your age and condition they would send you to prison. Probably just make you wear a GPS ankle bracelet and allow you to remain at the KBC Manor old folks home.
Quote from: guesswho on July 10, 2019, 08:58:02 AM
Quote from: GobbleNut on July 10, 2019, 08:20:12 AM
I have reached the age where life in prison isn't all that much of a deterrent".
I doubt at your age and condition they would send you to prison. Probably just make you wear a GPS ankle bracelet and allow you to remain at the KBC Manor old folks home.
:TooFunny: Don't be too cocky, buddy! ....You are right behind me!
...."KBC Manor"?...I like the sound of that. ;D
Quote from: NCL on July 10, 2019, 08:54:06 AM
GN,
You and I are on the exactly the same page philosophically. I grew up that your word is your bond and if you shake hands on a deal you had better stick to the deal. If there is a misunderstanding then we sit down and figure put a reasonable solution. I always viewed permission to hunt someone's property was a gift and a very generous gift, to me more valuable than money because it denoted they trusted you to respect them and their property.
Couldn't agree more, NCL. Our society has most certainly moved from the philosophy of personal values and accountability to one of a "what's in it for me?" mind-set. We have become a litigious society, for sure,...which is why I have adopted the philosophy I have outlined.
Just presenting the image of "our agreement is between you and me,...not between me and your lawyer or insurance company" at least starts off the conversation with the precept of "if you are planning on jerking me around, you better think twice about it because I ain't playin' this game with your lawyer,...I'm playin' it with YOU"!
....That may be harsh, but it gets the point across right off the bat. Perhaps if more people would use that tact, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now.
Quite honestly, I am not nearly as crazy as I sound regarding this (although some here might disagree ;D ),...but just presenting that image weeds out a lot of the potential headaches from those that are looking for ways to "game the system". >:(