Posted this over on archerytalk, and I was told to come post it here...Wow went to shoot my gun before turkey season opens saturday...Had several choke tubes I was going to try through my super black eagle 2...It is an indian creek choke that cost $95!!!! This happened on my last shot so im not sure if it messed up the barrel or not. The gun is patterning right really bad, and last season it shot left bad.. I have no idea what is going on. Any help or ideas would be appreciated. By the way I was shooting winchester supreme 3in #4s Not the extended range... (http://photo.jpg) (http://photo-1.jpg)
looks like since im new to the site, i cant figure out how to post pics.. can someone help?
http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,10.0.html
Here is the photo infohttp://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,10.msg71.html#new (http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,10.msg71.html#new)
(http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo267/mossy517/photo.jpg)
Posting for OP
Thought I would help you out a bit so I went to Archery Talk and pulled your pictures and brought them over.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/stcb/photo1.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/stcb/photo2.jpg)
This is the second IC choke we have seen recently that split on the crown. It may be that IC got a bad batch of steel ingots. I would recommend you call Indian Creek and ask to speak with Stuart directly. From what I see I suspect your barrel is fine.
Well since seeing the pic Mossy posted is this the same choke we discussed a while back? Maybe there arent two.
I dont think it was the same choke as awhile back. If I remember correctly the prievious one was only split in one place.
It must be a bad batch of steel. I have sent plenty of rounds down range with my IC with no problems.
I am sure they will help you out if you give them a call
573.824.5555
Quote from: anthonyjhallen on March 07, 2011, 01:41:19 PM
I have sent plenty of rounds down range with my IC with no problems.
Same here....If call I C they WILL make it right :icon_thumright:
I personally know the guy from the first story. His only split in one spot. He said he talked with the guy at IndianCreek and he said that he had about 10 of them do that. He said it was the steel. If the guy didn't misunderstand him, he said all the split chokes were made of carbon steel and the one not splitting were stainless steel. IndianCreek was very apologetic and sent him a new one without even waiting on the old one.
Quote from: Skeeterbait on March 07, 2011, 01:23:34 PM
Thought I would help you out a bit so I went to Archery Talk and pulled your pictures and brought them over.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/stcb/photo1.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/stcb/photo2.jpg)
This is the second IC choke we have seen recently that split on the crown. It may be that IC got a bad batch of steel ingots. I would recommend you call Indian Creek and ask to speak with Stuart directly. From what I see I suspect your barrel is fine.
Well since seeing the pic Mossy posted is this the same choke we discussed a while back? Maybe there arent two.
Not sure if it is the same choke or not, I had him email me the pics so I could post them for him
Agreed. Contact Stuart, at Indian Creek, and he will make it right. Mike
Quote from: Hognutz on March 07, 2011, 02:28:01 PM
Agreed. Contact Stuart, at Indian Creek, and he will make it right. Mike
:agreed: and fast .
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 07, 2011, 03:12:43 PM
Quote from: beaverslayer on March 07, 2011, 01:47:42 PM
I personally know the guy from the first story. His only split in one spot. He said he talked with the guy at IndianCreek and he said that he had about 10 of them do that. He said it was the steel. If the guy didn't misunderstand him, he said all the split chokes were made of carbon steel and the one not splitting were stainless steel. IndianCreek was very apologetic and sent him a new one without even waiting on the old one.
Correct, Lee said that Stuart told him, they have had no issues out of the new Stainless Steel chokes.
What made them try the carbon steel?
Cheaper?
Reminds me of Elmer Fudd's shotgun.
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 07, 2011, 03:12:43 PM
Quote from: beaverslayer on March 07, 2011, 01:47:42 PM
I personally know the guy from the first story. His only split in one spot. He said he talked with the guy at IndianCreek and he said that he had about 10 of them do that. He said it was the steel. If the guy didn't misunderstand him, he said all the split chokes were made of carbon steel and the one not splitting were stainless steel. IndianCreek was very apologetic and sent him a new one without even waiting on the old one.
Correct, Lee said that Stuart told him, they have had no issues out of the new Stainless Steel chokes.
SOOO how long have they been useing the "NEW" stainless steel!!!
Quote from: Reloader on March 07, 2011, 03:28:52 PM
Reminds me of Elmer Fudd's shotgun.
Me too. :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Quote from: Flydown on March 07, 2011, 03:40:24 PM
Quote from: Reloader on March 07, 2011, 03:28:52 PM
Reminds me of Elmer Fudd's shotgun.
Me too. :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Yeah it looks like someone plugged the end with a finger.
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 07, 2011, 03:49:18 PM
Quote from: Gobble! on March 07, 2011, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 07, 2011, 03:12:43 PM
Quote from: beaverslayer on March 07, 2011, 01:47:42 PM
I personally know the guy from the first story. His only split in one spot. He said he talked with the guy at IndianCreek and he said that he had about 10 of them do that. He said it was the steel. If the guy didn't misunderstand him, he said all the split chokes were made of carbon steel and the one not splitting were stainless steel. IndianCreek was very apologetic and sent him a new one without even waiting on the old one.
Correct, Lee said that Stuart told him, they have had no issues out of the new Stainless Steel chokes.
What made them try the carbon steel?
Cheaper?
That is what they have always used, up until this past Dec or Jan.
So the older chokes that they have sold thousands of are the ones that are spliting not the newer stainless steel ones?
Quote from: Gobble! on March 07, 2011, 04:00:40 PM
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 07, 2011, 03:49:18 PM
Quote from: Gobble! on March 07, 2011, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 07, 2011, 03:12:43 PM
Quote from: beaverslayer on March 07, 2011, 01:47:42 PM
I personally know the guy from the first story. His only split in one spot. He said he talked with the guy at IndianCreek and he said that he had about 10 of them do that. He said it was the steel. If the guy didn't misunderstand him, he said all the split chokes were made of carbon steel and the one not splitting were stainless steel. IndianCreek was very apologetic and sent him a new one without even waiting on the old one.
Correct, Lee said that Stuart told him, they have had no issues out of the new Stainless Steel chokes.
What made them try the carbon steel?
Cheaper?
That is what they have always used, up until this past Dec or Jan.
So the older chokes that they have sold thousands of are the ones that are spliting not the newer stainless steel ones?
:z-winnersmiley:
Quote from: S.C.C on March 07, 2011, 04:13:17 PM
Quote from: Gobble! on March 07, 2011, 04:00:40 PM
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 07, 2011, 03:49:18 PM
Quote from: Gobble! on March 07, 2011, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 07, 2011, 03:12:43 PM
Quote from: beaverslayer on March 07, 2011, 01:47:42 PM
I personally know the guy from the first story. His only split in one spot. He said he talked with the guy at IndianCreek and he said that he had about 10 of them do that. He said it was the steel. If the guy didn't misunderstand him, he said all the split chokes were made of carbon steel and the one not splitting were stainless steel. IndianCreek was very apologetic and sent him a new one without even waiting on the old one.
Correct, Lee said that Stuart told him, they have had no issues out of the new Stainless Steel chokes.
What made them try the carbon steel?
Cheaper?
That is what they have always used, up until this past Dec or Jan.
So the older chokes that they have sold thousands of are the ones that are spliting not the newer stainless steel ones?
:z-winnersmiley:
Lovely
Are other choke brands made of the previously used steel or simply IC..
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 07, 2011, 05:14:44 PM
JellyHead chokes, your Remington Turkey chokes, Comp-N-Chokes and I am sure a few others are made of Chrome Moly Steel, just like the IC chokes were.
So does the problem lie in the design or the steel
There is absolutely nothing wrong with CM. If there was, we'd all be in big trouble.
Does anyone remember when the stainless Sako rifles were exploding a few years back?
Manufacturers get bad lots of any type of material.
Is this IC's fault? Not IMO, it's the fault of their supplier. How did IC handle the problem? Top notch customer service.
So, how many choke manufacturers let you swap chokes til you're happy?
How many will make a custom choke for you?
How many will answer a call and talk with you for quite a while answering any question you have?
The list goes on.....
IC is as good as it gets in the choke industry.
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 07, 2011, 05:25:17 PM
I think they just got a bad batch of steel, and it is just now showing up periodically. Simply because there are a tone of IC chokes out there that have had no problems, and probably had more rounds shot through them than the 2 we have seen that have split.
Gotcha was just confused by your list seeings that half the chokes in your list are rated for HTL and half are not and the fact that CNC and Kicks claim its a design issue..
One solid bridge of Hevi or lead and cracka pal whoo!! :anim_25:
I would think it would have more to do with the heat treating process than the batch of steel. If it's too hard it will crack, if it's too soft it won't machine well.
How do we get are hands on the better Stainless IC's?
this has been the 4th IC that i have seen split. one belonging to my hunting buddy.
when dealing with something as dangerous as a firearm 1 bad product is to many.
Quote from: VAHUNTER on March 07, 2011, 06:11:29 PM
this has been the 4th IC that i have seen split. one belonging to my hunting buddy.
when dealing with something as dangerous as a firearm 1 bad product is to many.
Shawn....didn't your buddy shoot buckshot through his ? I am a BIG fan of I C and it is VERY disappointing to see these failures....I hope it doesn't hurt the company, cause they really are SUPER nice guys.
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 07, 2011, 05:25:17 PM
I think they just got a bad batch of steel, and it is just now showing up periodically. Simply because there are a tone of IC chokes out there that have had no problems, and probably had more rounds shot through them than the 2 we have seen that have split.
Looks to me like IC needs to have a recall on this older tube before someone gets hurt.
Quote from: drum817 on March 07, 2011, 06:40:20 PM
Quote from: VAHUNTER on March 07, 2011, 06:11:29 PM
this has been the 4th IC that i have seen split. one belonging to my hunting buddy.
when dealing with something as dangerous as a firearm 1 bad product is to many.
Shawn....didn't your buddy shoot buckshot through his ? I am a BIG fan of I C and it is VERY disappointing to see these failures....I hope it doesn't hurt the company, cause they really are SUPER nice guys.
his son did. i can except that one splitting. i'm not sure any choke would hold up to that abuse.
who else had this same problem a year or so ago here on OG.
I'm not trying to Bash IC in any way. they have proven there self many many times. i just hate to hear of any choke splitting. this is one part of the gun that you should not have to worry about. if there is a reoccurring problem something needs to be changed.
i would not want to share a tree with anyone using a choke that may split. JMO. LET THE BASHING BEGIN. if you feel i deserve it
Quote from: S.C.C on March 07, 2011, 06:08:10 PM
How do we get are hands on the better Stainless IC's?
Midwest Turkey has them already.
I'm sure you could order right from IC too.
mudhen
OOuuch! Hey Guys get the serial number off the choke should be stamped on the outside bore of the choke around the constriction size stamp & call indian creek and tell them what you have,I would also send them a pic via email as well, Indian creek will take care of you!
Quote from: mudhen on March 07, 2011, 07:45:37 PM
Quote from: S.C.C on March 07, 2011, 06:08:10 PM
How do we get are hands on the better Stainless IC's?
Midwest Turkey has them already.
I'm sure you could order right from IC too.
mudhen
Just checked MidWest's IC's...doesn't say a thing about any new Stainless or new model Stainless IC's?
Quote from: roosthigh on March 07, 2011, 07:36:25 PM
Quote from: slickyboyboo on March 07, 2011, 05:25:17 PM
I think they just got a bad batch of steel, and it is just now showing up periodically. Simply because there are a tone of IC chokes out there that have had no problems, and probably had more rounds shot through them than the 2 we have seen that have split.
Looks to me like IC needs to have a recall on this older tube before someone gets hurt.
Agreed.
I'll stick with them, but what do we do, wait for them to crack??
Anyone have any word from Stuart & Mike as to what we should do?
mudhen
Quote from: S.C.C on March 07, 2011, 07:56:55 PM
Quote from: mudhen on March 07, 2011, 07:45:37 PM
Quote from: S.C.C on March 07, 2011, 06:08:10 PM
How do we get are hands on the better Stainless IC's?
Midwest Turkey has them already.
I'm sure you could order right from IC too.
mudhen
Just checked MidWest's IC's...doesn't say a thing about any new Stainless or new model Stainless IC's?
It does in their printed catalog, page 82:
"New! Stainless Steel Construction"
But I'd check with them over the phone just to make sure they send you the SS version.
I've checked several Bass Pro's, and they are all regular steel on the shelves.
Could any of this have to do with the wads you are not supposed to shooted from ported tubes ???
mudhen
Quote from: VAHUNTER on March 07, 2011, 07:38:29 PM
Quote from: drum817 on March 07, 2011, 06:40:20 PM
Quote from: VAHUNTER on March 07, 2011, 06:11:29 PM
this has been the 4th IC that i have seen split. one belonging to my hunting buddy.
when dealing with something as dangerous as a firearm 1 bad product is to many.
Shawn....didn't your buddy shoot buckshot through his ? I am a BIG fan of I C and it is VERY disappointing to see these failures....I hope it doesn't hurt the company, cause they really are SUPER nice guys.
his son did. i can except that one splitting. i'm not sure any choke would hold up to that abuse.
who else had this same problem a year or so ago here on OG.
I'm not trying to Bash IC in any way. they have proven there self many many times. i just hate to hear of any choke splitting. this is one part of the gun that you should not have to worry about. if there is a reoccurring problem something needs to be changed.
i would not want to share a tree with anyone using a choke that may split. JMO. LET THE BASHING BEGIN. if you feel i deserve it
I hear ya Shawn....and I can respect your opinion. I have put MANY rounds through both of my I C chokes with NO problems & I hope it stays that way.
Quote from: turkeytromp on March 07, 2011, 07:48:56 PM
OOuuch! Hey Guys get the serial number off the choke should be stamped on the outside bore of the choke around the constriction size stamp & call indian creek and tell them what you have,I would also send them a pic via email as well, Indian creek will take care of you!
Just checked my Indian Creek choke model #0001 for the Invector system. No mention of SS or CM steel used in it's construction, nor was there any mention on the original package.
It's been cold here, but it looks like I had better do some informal testing to see if my newly purchased IC BDS choke is one of the affected models.
The newer stainless steel chokes will have SS etched on them right before the exit diameter size.
There is no way for I.C. or any other company to know if it got an ingot with interior defects. Hopefully, just a few. Their(I.C.) design with all the cut-outs are prone to expose any weakness in the steel.
As far as the new S.S. choke, carbon steel is generally stronger than Stainless Steel. Not all grades, but most.
Clint
Quote from: VAHUNTER on March 07, 2011, 07:38:29 PM
Quote from: drum817 on March 07, 2011, 06:40:20 PM
Quote from: VAHUNTER on March 07, 2011, 06:11:29 PM
this has been the 4th IC that i have seen split. one belonging to my hunting buddy.
when dealing with something as dangerous as a firearm 1 bad product is to many.
Shawn....didn't your buddy shoot buckshot through his ? I am a BIG fan of I C and it is VERY disappointing to see these failures....I hope it doesn't hurt the company, cause they really are SUPER nice guys.
his son did. i can except that one splitting. i'm not sure any choke would hold up to that abuse.
who else had this same problem a year or so ago here on OG.
I'm not trying to Bash IC in any way. they have proven there self many many times. i just hate to hear of any choke splitting. this is one part of the gun that you should not have to worry about. if there is a reoccurring problem something needs to be changed.
i would not want to share a tree with anyone using a choke that may split. JMO. LET THE BASHING BEGIN. if you feel i deserve it
So, I guess I can't come hunt with you sometime then huh? :P
I tried to get PG to make me a .720 and they would not. ??
Quote from: sugarray on March 07, 2011, 08:47:27 PM
So, I guess I can't come hunt with you sometime then huh? :P
I tried to get PG to make me a .720 and they would not. ??
but then again you don't see there chokes blowing up every 3 days :TooFunny:
IMO...There would not be a problem with the chokes if no shot larger than #6 was fired thru them!!!
Quote from: S.C.C on March 07, 2011, 08:54:57 PM
IMO...There would not be a problem with the chokes if no shot larger than #6 was fired thru them!!!
Larger or smaller? I thought the smaller shot was causing the problem. I shoot TSS #8 through mine.
They do make them without the skinny slotted ports!!I'm sure you couldn't crack one of those with any shot size!! ;D
Quote from: S.C.C on March 07, 2011, 09:16:39 PM
They do make them without the skinny slotted ports!!I'm sure you couldn't crack one of those with any shot size!! ;D
They use to make the "Platinum Pro Elite" Which was the same choke just not ported....I liked it personally. Don't know why they quit making it.
Quote from: drum817 on March 07, 2011, 09:19:52 PM
Quote from: S.C.C on March 07, 2011, 09:16:39 PM
They do make them without the skinny slotted ports!!I'm sure you couldn't crack one of those with any shot size!! ;D
They use to make the "Platinum Pro Elite" Which was the same choke just not ported....I liked it personally. Don't know why they quit making it.
You think they would have kept it around for the Feds
Stuart told me about 9 months ago he could make me one unported, just pull it off the line before the slots were machined. But he advised me against it because he said the slots really do make a difference in the pattern by stopping the rotation of the wad before it exited the choke.
Quote from: roosthigh on March 07, 2011, 07:36:25 PM
Looks to me like IC needs to have a recall on this older tube before someone gets hurt.
+1 on this one. I have 2 of the IC chokes - one on my 870 super mag and one on my son's 870 20 gauge. Have they identified a "Lot" by serial #, and do they have individual serial #s on them?
Mine says SS stamped in the choke right before the diameter. Although if these were just switched to it in Jan there is really no telling if it is any better. Am i a tad nervous sure but ALL products have some defects in them. adding to that the amount of IC users on here you are bound to find some and in not all cases it is the actual chokes fault fully as some can be untold user error. I will keep shooting mine and if see any sign of issues i will just call them and see whats going on and what my options are.
cant upload pics..says path was not correct. how do u post pics. i have an ic choke that has grooves inside. shot only hevi shot through it
Quote from: archery1 on March 07, 2011, 11:01:12 PM
cant upload pics..says path was not correct. how do u post pics. i have an ic choke that has grooves inside. shot only hevi shot through it
if the groves are horizontal and not vertical that is how they come...its what slowes the wad down.
Quote from: archery1 on March 07, 2011, 11:01:12 PM
cant upload pics..says path was not correct. how do u post pics. i have an ic choke that has grooves inside. shot only hevi shot through it
Go to your picture on your host sight (photobucket, Facebook, etc) right click on the pic. Select properties. You will see a URL listed. Right click that and select "select all". Right click on the highlited URL and select copy. on this page when you select the image Icon which places the [ img ][ /img], paste the copied link between the [ img]link here[/img]
Talked with stuart last night, and he is a super nice guy!! Great costumer service, and he is sending me my money back!!! Thanks guys!
Quote from: turkeykiller22 on March 08, 2011, 11:05:36 AM
Talked with stuart last night, and he is a super nice guy!! Great costumer service, and he is sending me my money back!!! Thanks guys!
What are you going to get now?
Makes me wonder about the Super Mad Max. Weren't they made by IC as well?
Quote from: mnbeardbuster on March 08, 2011, 12:52:43 PM
Makes me wonder about the Super Mad Max. Weren't they made by IC as well?
Someone here has a picture of one of them all blown out
Quote from: mnbeardbuster on March 08, 2011, 12:52:43 PM
Makes me wonder about the Super Mad Max. Weren't they made by IC as well?
Its Flydown with the picture some in the know claim they WERE made by IC and some in the know Claim they WERE NOT made by IC..
All I know is if somebody cloned something in looks as close as these two, their would be a lawsuit
Quote from: mnbeardbuster on March 08, 2011, 12:52:43 PM
Makes me wonder about the Super Mad Max. Weren't they made by IC as well?
I dont know yet... Im taking my gun to one of the best gun smiths in the world on monday! Im gonna see what he has to say about them, and im gonna shoot numerous ones at the range. I would like to try a rhino choke, but for right now i still have my JH and the hevi-shot choke that came out last year.
Quote from: shootumindaface on March 08, 2011, 01:05:47 PM
Quote from: mnbeardbuster on March 08, 2011, 12:52:43 PM
Makes me wonder about the Super Mad Max. Weren't they made by IC as well?
Its Flydown with the picture some in the know claim they WERE made by IC and some in the know Claim they WERE NOT made by IC..
All I know is if somebody cloned something in looks as close as these two, their would be a lawsuit
M.A.D.SuperMax Rem. 870 12 ga. Shooting Remington Hevishot #5's :o
The gun was not hurt in the destroying of this choke tube ;D ;D ;D
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/limbwalker1/DSC02216.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/limbwalker1/DSC02214.jpg)
Did you kill the turkey?
QuoteYou ever get any compensation from the folks at M.A.D.?
I never called them. I had another one so I just kept this one for a keep sake. ;D
Quote from: honker22 on March 08, 2011, 05:44:27 PM
Did you kill the turkey?
I did kill the turkey but he was almost not fit to eat,Hevishot in most of the meat.That pissed me off more than my choke busting. >:(
Quote from: Flydown on March 08, 2011, 05:28:41 PM
Quote from: shootumindaface on March 08, 2011, 01:05:47 PM
Quote from: mnbeardbuster on March 08, 2011, 12:52:43 PM
Makes me wonder about the Super Mad Max. Weren't they made by IC as well?
Its Flydown with the picture some in the know claim they WERE made by IC and some in the know Claim they WERE NOT made by IC..
All I know is if somebody cloned something in looks as close as these two, their would be a lawsuit
M.A.D.SuperMax Rem. 870 12 ga. Shooting Remington Hevishot #5's :o
The gun was not hurt in the destroying of this choke tube ;D ;D ;D
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/limbwalker1/DSC02216.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/limbwalker1/DSC02214.jpg)
that is freakin scary !!!!
Quote from: VAHUNTER on March 08, 2011, 06:17:39 PM
Quote from: Flydown on March 08, 2011, 05:28:41 PM
Quote from: shootumindaface on March 08, 2011, 01:05:47 PM
Quote from: mnbeardbuster on March 08, 2011, 12:52:43 PM
Makes me wonder about the Super Mad Max. Weren't they made by IC as well?
Its Flydown with the picture some in the know claim they WERE made by IC and some in the know Claim they WERE NOT made by IC..
All I know is if somebody cloned something in looks as close as these two, their would be a lawsuit
M.A.D.SuperMax Rem. 870 12 ga. Shooting Remington Hevishot #5's :o
The gun was not hurt in the destroying of this choke tube ;D ;D ;D
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/limbwalker1/DSC02216.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/limbwalker1/DSC02214.jpg)
that is freakin scary !!!!
no kidding that would have freaked me out