Novice turkey hunter here with a question about jake decoys. I see there are now white headed versions of male decoys being marketed. Apparently this visually signifies the male is interested in breeding vs. fighting, the fighting mood being signified by the red/white/blue head.
Question, is there any practical difference that you have seen in the field that would justify someone dropping another wad of cash on another jake decoy, this one with a white head, because it is better than the red/white/blue head? Is the gobbler response difference real or is it just this year's marketing bell/whistle?
I already have a DSD jake with the red/white/blue head but am a sucker for the latest/greatest thing. Please talk me out of buying yet another DSD turkey decoy!
Don't make me do it! I am just looking for an excuse to buy it! AHHHHHHH!!!!
Somebody made a large post here about this not long ago, give me a minute and I will try to find it to you. Welcome to the site by the way.
White heads are a sign of the dominant bird (s) in a particular group. Red almost always shows submissive or sub-dominannce.
I found the one I was thinking of, on page 4 and post number 53 MK M GOBL talks about his use of them and think he talks about them before that in the thread as this post is an update. http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,70971.msg777520.html#msg777520
Thanks for the link!
Totally white is the most sexually heightened state for a gobbler. His head will be white right before and during breeding. If there are multiple gobblers it will be the dominant gobbler doing the breeding thus his head and waddles may get pure white. Typically doesn't stay that way for a long time. He will again get some color after breeding. It does show dominance and I have found pure white head on decoys to scare off many gobblers. Only the most aggressive birds will come in. Then I quit using decoys and worrying about it.
Quote from: Magdump on March 29, 2018, 09:57:43 AM
Thanks for the link!
You're quite welcome. Sorry it was not as large a post as I remembered.
Quote from: drenalinld on March 29, 2018, 10:09:19 AM
Totally white is the most sexually heightened state for a gobbler. His head will be white right before and during breeding. If there are multiple gobblers it will be the dominant gobbler doing the breeding thus his head and waddles may get pure white. Typically doesn't stay that way for a long time. He will again get some color after breeding. It does show dominance and I have found pure white head on decoys to scare off many gobblers. Only the most aggressive birds will come in. Then I quit using decoys and worrying about it.
That's interesting, back when I started hunting them around 98 they had always said that the red head way the head would get when the sexual act was going to occur. That must be some new research I missed when I could not hunt for years. I love learning new stuff, thanks.
I have added white & blue to an old King Strut decoy I use sometimes. Cut slits in each side to put real wings on it.
I have always thought it was cool how their heads can change color based on their mood. I've had them come in to the call one color, then suddenly change to the other if they got nervous.
Put it this way. When I would be hen calling to a gobbler and his head would suddenly turn from red to white, I knew I was in the game.
Quote from: Magdump on March 29, 2018, 09:30:21 AM
Novice turkey hunter here with a question about jake decoys. I see there are now white headed versions of male decoys being marketed. Apparently this visually signifies the male is interested in breeding vs. fighting, the fighting mood being signified by the red/white/blue head.
Question, is there any practical difference that you have seen in the field that would justify someone dropping another wad of cash on another jake decoy, this one with a white head, because it is better than the red/white/blue head? Is the gobbler response difference real or is it just this year's marketing bell/whistle?
I already have a DSD jake with the red/white/blue head but am a sucker for the latest/greatest thing. Please talk me out of buying yet another DSD turkey decoy!
Don't make me do it! I am just looking for an excuse to buy it! AHHHHHHH!!!!
So here is my thing with this, I would leave the Jake head in the Red, White and Blue... reason being is you are showing him as a sub, he is in body position that way as well "3/4" strut. I also use him a sub to my Strutter Decoy.
I have been hunting with a White Headed Strutter Decoy I designed/developed since 1999. I have had a lot of experience with "BIG PUFFY", even though the "White Head" is a dominant bird he is at the breeding stage not at fight stage. I have had plenty jakes come in right up to him, the White Head is interested in breeding the hen, he really don't care about any other bird unless that bird is coming to challenge him, either way birds come to him.
I have never used a white headed jake decoy... just doesn't fit how I hunt them. In any case there is a lot to learn about social structure and other keys in behavior, as I say "Hunting Decoys Right". I have a set of rules I go by when I am using decoys, guess they are what work for me.
One other thing, I never have out 2 jake decoys in a set...
My question would be, do you have a DSD strutter?
MK M GOBL
There's a lot more than just color to consider. In the areas I hunt here in Colo and Nebraska the ratio of toms to hens is super low. There also aren't many jakes. There are so few toms that they usually have plenty of hens to keep them busy. They don't have to be aggressive because there aren't that many toms or jakes to fight over groups of hens. In an area with lots of toms and jakes they may be super aggressive towards each other. Things can likely change from year to year and from flock to flock.
What I've learned is to stay super flexible and be willing to change things up. If something doesn't work be willing to try something else. Things may also change dramatically from early season to late season. Posture of your decoy may be just as important as color. Tom decoys with real fan may work better than submissive jakes. A jake over a breeding hen may work better than a strutter. I've always found that it's important to watch the reaction of turkeys (and other game). If they stray from a decoy set or what you are doing be willing to change things up! Sometimes it may be worth remaining patient and watching the reaction of several turkeys before making changes.
If it were me I'd give your DSD a fair chance. It seems like everyone that uses DSD's brag on how well they work. You may not need anything else....but I would definitely stay flexible.
With that said, it's pretty easy to use a brush or airbrush and change up or brighten the colors on decoys. If you are set on trying different colors possibly use a water based paint that can be removed (if it's not going to rain) and you can try out changes.
Here's a pretty good read http://bestturkeydecoy.com/body-language/ I personally look at the bird that is doing the strutting. Head color will vary due to aggression. I normally use hen decoys so when multiple gobblers come into the setup pecking order is normally already set. Guys that use full strut decoys may see different things.
If you want a white headed Jake I suggest a regular decoy and a can of white spray paint. Save some $$. If that doesn't work spend 5 dollars for a red can.
Quote from: drenalinld on March 29, 2018, 10:09:19 AM
Totally white is the most sexually heightened state for a gobbler. His head will be white right before and during breeding. If there are multiple gobblers it will be the dominant gobbler doing the breeding thus his head and waddles may get pure white. Typically doesn't stay that way for a long time. He will again get some color after breeding. It does show dominance and I have found pure white head on decoys to scare off many gobblers. Only the most aggressive birds will come in. Then I quit using decoys and worrying about it.
So, what you're saying is... there is only enough blood to supply one organ at a time. Seems like we've heard that somewhere else before. ;D
Quote from: MK M GOBL on March 29, 2018, 08:30:53 PM
I have been hunting with a White Headed Strutter Decoy I designed/developed since 1999. I have had a lot of experience with "BIG PUFFY", even though the "White Head" is a dominant bird he is at the breeding stage not at fight stage. I have had plenty jakes come in right up to him, the White Head is interested in breeding the hen, he really don't care about any other bird unless that bird is coming to challenge him, either way birds come to him.
Any DISADVANTAGE to having a white head on the strutter? I have a DSD strutter that I have been thinking about painting the head white, but was always nervous about him looking too dominant..but now with you explaining it this way, I don't know if there would really be a disadvantage.
And do you feel the white head makes a big enough difference to worry about it? I know its impossible to think like a turkey, but do you think there's birds that have come to your decoy that wouldn't have if he had the red head?
Thanks!
Quote from: cornfedkiller on April 09, 2018, 05:14:23 PM
Quote from: MK M GOBL on March 29, 2018, 08:30:53 PM
I have been hunting with a White Headed Strutter Decoy I designed/developed since 1999. I have had a lot of experience with "BIG PUFFY", even though the "White Head" is a dominant bird he is at the breeding stage not at fight stage. I have had plenty jakes come in right up to him, the White Head is interested in breeding the hen, he really don't care about any other bird unless that bird is coming to challenge him, either way birds come to him.
Any DISADVANTAGE to having a white head on the strutter? I have a DSD strutter that I have been thinking about painting the head white, but was always nervous about him looking too dominant..but now with you explaining it this way, I don't know if there would really be a disadvantage.
And do you feel the white head makes a big enough difference to worry about it? I know its impossible to think like a turkey, but do you think there's birds that have come to your decoy that wouldn't have if he had the red head?
Thanks!
I have not seen any disadvantage, I only hunt a White Headed Gobbler Decoy. And yes I would not use a "Red" Headed gobbler anymore after getting the results I do. And Yes the reason for the change was I was having gobblers shy away from the "Red Headed" Gobbler, a lot of hunters have seen this. The Red Head is a bird ready for a fight, he is showing his dominance, a bird that is subordinate would shy from a dominant tom. If he has been getting his butt kicked around, he would have learned his place in the social structure. (A DSD 3/4 Strut Jake would be my choice then, a sub to another "sub" tom)
I have a very specific way I paint the "White Head" I will attach the pics.
MK M GOBL
Here are a couple of links I found discussing this topic:
http://bestturkeydecoy.com/body-language/
http://www.gameandfishmag.com/hunting/turkey/how-to-read-a-turkeys-body-language/
Great topic that can provide some good insight to the insightful our curious hunter...
Interestingly, I was watching some turkeys (that were causually eating, meandering, and a couple strutting)... I noticed that all the heads were red, and none of the birds seemed "anxious," or overly alert...
I do think the snood is a good indicator... If that snood retracts while the bird is coming in, you'd better think about taking the shot at the first opportunity...
Quote from: Marc on April 10, 2018, 02:00:29 AM
Here are a couple of links I found discussing this topic:
http://bestturkeydecoy.com/body-language/
http://www.gameandfishmag.com/hunting/turkey/how-to-read-a-turkeys-body-language/
Great topic that can provide some good insight to the insightful our curious hunter...
Interestingly, I was watching some turkeys (that were causually eating, meandering, and a couple strutting)... I noticed that all the heads were red, and none of the birds seemed "anxious," or overly alert...
I do think the snood is a good indicator... If that snood retracts while the bird is coming in, you'd better think about taking the shot at the first opportunity...
A couple of good points in those, a lot of what I talk about during my seminars on turkey body language, social structure and the dominance game. I have also seen a difference in the "fright" stage color of a toms head and it has a different "pattern" to it, the "Wing Fold" is also another indicator of a bird leaving... the snood is an "indicator" of the birds mood, has to be looked at in the situation. Head tilt is also a factor in this, It would be hard to cover every "change" in body language, there are times the snood is up and tight just because the bird is a subordinate in the presence of more dominate birds, in this case it is not a deal breaker it is just a case of social structure. There is a lot in the Alpha / Beta / Omega dominance structure in male and female roles. It also plays in the game of taking the dominant tom and the effect in re-structure of those roles in the flock. I always take the dominant tom when I have multiple toms coming in and there are keys to knowing which in the dominant bird, I do this for a number of reasons. In some cases we have the opportunity to take more than one bird, "doubles" and in others is to "change" that "Alpha" role. It can really make a difference in future hunts in that area.
There is a lot more to all this I could go over and I am always willing to help out with questions on this.
This is a pic of 5 toms (early season hunt) coming into my full strut White Headed tom decoy and shows each of these birds "dominance" role. I had 5 decoys out on this set. Strutter / Jake (sub) / Upright hen / Feeding hen / Leading hen and I have "rules" to how I set decpys from seasons start to seasons end. All goes into "Hunting Decoys Right"
As you can see in the "Omegas" the snood is high & tight and the head tilt (subordinate), the Alpha and Beta both have elongated snoods.
MK M GOBL