Personally,I would like to see New Jersey set a " maximum" Spring Gobbler take at 3 Gobblers Max.
As it is now- If your Zone/s has any remaining Turkey Permits after the " Lottery"- you can simply Buy as many Spring Turkey P?mits as you want at 21 dollars a Turkey P?mit.
And buy up those permits in 2 or more Zones if you have the ready money on hand.
Now- if that Hunter has already got some Turkey Permits from the " Lottery"-- that Turkey hunter might end up having 10--15 or more Spring Turkey Permits!!
Leaving fewer Spring Turkey permits for other Turkey hunters when permits become available- over the counter.
With Turkey numbers on the Decline in many areas of New Jersey--- a Change is in order....
3 Gobblers Max Limit for the New Jersey Spring .Hope it happens in the future...
I am hoping New Jersey goes to a " more fair" system in the near future.
Again,I think 3 Gobblers is plenty. More then plenty.
With Mississippi changing their Spring Season regulations- perhaps New Jersey will follow.
First of all, I know nothing about the NJ regulations other than what you have explained and from the information I see on the NJ DNR site. Secondly, I fully agree that a three gobbler limit, or less, may be warranted, especially in a state the size of NJ and with the ever-increasing interest in spring gobbler hunting nationwide.
Having said all of that, from reading the information on the NJ site, it appears to me that the intent of the spring regulations is to limit any one hunter to two gobblers. So, my question to you is,...have you actually tried to purchase more than two permits? Secondly, have you contacted your DNR, discussed this with them, and got a full clarification on whether it is legal for someone to purchase unlimited over-the-counter permits if there are any left after the two lottery drawings?
Your concerns are certainly warranted if the system is actually set up the way you describe it. Admittedly, I only did a cursory examination of the site and perhaps I missed something, but I get the impression from what I read that the "intent" of the regulations is that hunters are limited to two spring permits.
And finally, even if your interpretation of the regulations is correct, with the increasing popularity of spring gobbler hunting, it would be hard for me to believe that there would be many OTC permits available after the two lottery draws such that someone would ever have the opportunity to just keep buying up permits and end up with unlimited opportunity. Surely there is currently enough interest in spring gobbler hunting in NJ such that the quota would be reached long before someone could buy up the number of permits you say would be possible.
If that is indeed the case, I agree that the system needs to be changed.
No Sir Gobblenut- 1 Spring Gobbler is permitted each day. However if that Hunter is succesful on a Monday- that hunter can purchase another turkey permit over the counter " if" more Turkey permits are still available for that " Zone". And this can continue on and on.
And you can Buy a permit for another Zone as well.
So yeah- if a hunter is Greedy and has the time and the money- that Spring Hunter can easily buy 15 or more Turkey permits.
Thí System needs to change pronto.
Quote from: quavers59 on July 25, 2021, 02:20:04 PM
No Sir Gobblenut- 1 Spring Gobbler is permitted each day. However if that Hunter is succesful on a Monday- that hunter can purchase another turkey permit over the counter " if" more Turkey permits are still available for that " Zone". And this can continue on and on.
And you can Buy a permit for another Zone as well.
So yeah- if a hunter is Greedy and has the time and the money- that Spring Hunter can easily buy 15 or more Turkey permits.
"The System needs to change pronto".
Sounds like it. How do the rest of your fellow NJ turkey hunters feel about this? If your opinion is universal among your fellow hunters, the way to affect change is to organize and lobby your DNR to get it done. (This is one arena where the NWTF clout is a benefit. If you have a state NWTF chapter, you should contact the leadership and find out where they stand, and if they agree with you, petition the DNR to get things changed)
Hopefully whoever manages for bears in NJ doesn't have a hand in turkey management. I heard they completely shut down all bear hunting even in places people claim is over run with bears. Living in FL I know how that's gonna play out, you'll never get to hunt them again. Just run them out of your garage or yard every night. Be care full mentioning turkeys with that crowd, they'll shut everything down.
Originally from NJ. Moved to the Midwest and started turkey hunting when I lived in western IL even though there's really not many turkeys in Henderson county. Moved to Tennessee and ramped up more. Now I'm back in NJ, but I've never actually turkey hunted here. I travel to New England pretty much every weekend
We have bigger fish to fry in NJ. This governor here is trying to stop hunting all together. The fish and game council and the commissioner couldn't agree on the 2021 bear season so it was canceled. 5 or 6 WMA's were closed due to some BS... safety and protection of the natural resources. This is what they want to do. They want to mange it by stopping it all together. This guy don't give 2 toots about anything, except taking it all away.
The northern part of the state was unbelievable turkey hunting back in the 80's they did nothing to correct the rapid decline. There are now 4 zones in the southern part of the state that are doing well. My personal belief zone 20 could be in trouble. Will find out more when the numbers come out. The permit system is a lottery separated in weeks. A,B,C,D,E. Week E would be all Saturdays. I put in for the lottery in week one A. Then buy over the counter week two B. I'll also purchase D because it's a two week permit and all day hunt. I get out a couple of days with it because I hunt other states. I've never had a problem in getting a permit and was never able to get 2 in one week in the early season. You can get permits in the central and northern part of the state easily but only have small pockets of birds now.
We definitely need help all the way around.
Well put TrackeySauresRex! I usually buy Permits for Time periods- A,B,C,+D in North Jersey.
So- 4 Turkey Permits good for 1 week each with the "D" permit good for 2 weeks. But,I am not killing any Turkeys in North New Jersey.
Mid to Red Hot South New Jersey is where the Gobblers are now.
NOT FOR LONG THOUGH AS PENNSYLVANIA TURKEY HUNTERS BUY UP PLENTY OF TURKEY PERMITS.
When the Wanaque WMA was dropped and instead added to become part of Ironworks State Park-- I just knew NJ would not be spending any money for anything wildlife related in North NJ.
Where is money going??
Quote from: quavers59 on July 25, 2021, 02:20:04 PM
Thí System needs to change pronto.
Why does this need to change pronto? It actually sounds like a great way to manage populations and prevent overharvest by limiting the total number of permits available, much like Wisconsin does it.
In a state that gives out several OTC tags to every hunter that purchases a hunting license, you have no way to prevent over-harvest in times of surplus license sales (Covid for example).
In a state like Wisconsin or NJ, no matter how many additional turkey hunters are added, the total number of turkey permits sold, per zone, is capped.
This is the system that should be implemented by all states and would keep most happy. The fella that wants to kill one turkey then go fishing the rest of the spring is happy and the fella that wants to hunt until the end of the season is also happy.
Quote from: simpzenith on July 25, 2021, 05:40:31 PM
Quote from: quavers59 on July 25, 2021, 02:20:04 PM
Thí System needs to change pronto.
Why does this need to change pronto?
In a state like Wisconsin or NJ, no matter how many additional turkey hunters are added, the total number of turkey permits sold, per zone, is capped.
Because there not making adjustments. They are continually selling the same amount of permits with a declining population. Just like the did in the northern zones.
Simpzenith- the problem " and it is a growing problem" is even with a capped quota of total Spring Turkey permits along with - weekly Turkey Permits for each Zone + Time period- thêre is a growing group of very Skilled Spring Turkey hunters taking Advantage of the - over the counter sale of Turkey Permits.
And alot of thêse Spring Hunters can Kill 6-8- 10+ Gobblers in 1 or more " Hot Zones".
That is why NJ should " Cap" the Spring Gobbler Limit at a Max of 3 Gobblers per hunter.
Now- some people say 2 Gobblers Max .
Now- perhaps that Fisherman who took that 1 Gobbler decides he wants to Turkey hunt again and finds out at the Bait Shop that all Turkey Permits are sold out as " Bob" bought the last one yesterday after killing Gobbler #8 the 2 days back.
Quote from: quavers59 on July 25, 2021, 06:45:38 PM
Simpzenith- the problem " and it is a growing problem" is even with a capped quota of total Spring Turkey permits along with - weekly Turkey Permits for each Zone + Time period- thêre is a growing group of very Skilled Spring Turkey hunters taking Advantage of the - over the counter sale of Turkey Permits.
And alot of thêse Spring Hunters can Kill 6-8- 10+ Gobblers in 1 or more " Hot Zones".
That is why NJ should " Cap" the Spring Gobbler Limit at a Max of 3 Gobblers per hunter.
Now- some people say 2 Gobblers Max .
Now- perhaps that Fisherman who took that 1 Gobbler decides he wants to Turkey hunt again and finds out at the Bait Shop that all Turkey Permits are sold out as " Bob" bought the last one yesterday after killing Gobbler #8 the 2 days back.
I'm not so sure if I'm in agreement with this (respectfully) ;D.
Here's my reason, If yer hunting in the south there is no way you can get over the counter tags for the hot zones. They were sold out in minutes, I was in zone 20 for years and lost my spot in that zone. This happened right before the deadline, I didn't know where I was hunting in NJ last spring. With some scouting, I had to check out some other areas after the deadline. So I was only purchasing OTC, I was not in the lottery. Them tags were gone in 2 of the zones in the blink of an eye. If yer lucky,, and a skilled turkey hunter week 3 was always a week that sold out last. Generally you'd be able to get another permit if you tagged out early in the week.
I hope to nail a Fat Jake thí Fall in the Public Hardwoods. Just 1 Fall Turkey is all, I want.
Hens get a Pass.
Quote from: quavers59 on July 26, 2021, 07:12:12 PM
I hope to nail a Fat Jake thí Fall in the Public Hardwoods. Just 1 Fall Turkey is all, I want.
Hens get a Pass.
That's something I've never applied for.
If New Jersey wasn't on the map now it probably will be. This thread almost seems hypocritical. Not being negative towards anyone on here because I know there are good intentions involved, but many are scouring these threads and learning more about NJ with every post.
Quote from: Shiloh on July 27, 2021, 08:34:58 AM
If New Jersey wasn't on the map now it probably will be. This thread almost seems hypocritical. Not being negative towards anyone on here because I know there are good intentions involved, but many are scouring these threads and learning more about NJ with every post.
I agree that these kinds of threads draw attention to states that might otherwise get less scrutiny in the turkey hunting world. It is the old "double-edged sword" situation,...a potential management problem that possibly should be addressed gets tossed around on the internet and the next thing you know more folks have that state in mind for a turkey hunting trip.
The social media problem we have raises its ugly head again,....even when the intentions are good.... :icon_thumright: :)
...And, then again, some of us pointing that out keeps the topic in the headlines! ...What to do?.... ;D
I had heard about the NJ turkey system several years ago. Sounds like a guy really on the birds could kill a whole slew of 'em each spring.
I would agree, they should have a max limit of birds. For the good of turkey hunting in NJ.
good luck, Jersey numbers peaked years ago, the state still will sell you permits, but you better have private land to fill the tags.
Quote from: JeffC on July 27, 2021, 12:19:02 PM
good luck, Jersey numbers peaked years ago, the state still will sell you permits, but you better have private land to fill the tags.
They need to go back and read what I posted. They want to stop hunting all together here. Closing WMA's is a big thing here and there will be more. People don't come to New Jersey, they run from it. Buy them tags up and You'll have a slew of tags to make a beautiful soup.
Enjoy.
I hope New Jersey officials at least partly follow what has just happened in Ohio as most hêre are ?ware.
3 Gobblers as a Max Spring Cap Limit .
When all is said and done, all states should be basing their bag limits on turkey population trends, and especially as to how those correlate to hunter numbers and pressure put on the resource.
Having higher bag limits in a situation where the turkey population is steady or increasing, and where the resource is under-hunted is one thing. Having multiple-gobbler bag limits in a situation where the resource is declining and hunting pressure is excessive is entirely another. I don't have a clue how New Jersey fits into that picture, but it sounds to me like it is perhaps moving from the former more towards the latter.
There are no doubt places where both of those conditions exist. However, I believe the situation of an under-hunted resource is becoming less and less prevalent. Regardless, in any case it should be intuitive to understand that we cannot continue to let ever-increasing hunter numbers kill excessive numbers of a continuingly-decreasing resource. That should be quite clear to everybody.
Quote from: GobbleNut on August 07, 2021, 09:25:25 AM
When all is said and done, all states should be basing their bag limits on turkey population trends, and especially as to how those correlate to hunter numbers and pressure put on the resource.
Having higher bag limits in a situation where the turkey population is steady or increasing, and where the resource is under-hunted is one thing. Having multiple-gobbler bag limits in a situation where the resource is declining and hunting pressure is excessive is entirely another. I don't have a clue how New Jersey fits into that picture, but it sounds to me like it has perhaps moving from the former more towards the latter.
There are no doubt places where both of those conditions exist. However, I believe the situation of an under-hunted resource is becoming less and less prevalent. Regardless, in any case it should be intuitive to understand that we cannot continue to let ever-increasing hunter numbers kill excessive numbers of a continuingly-decreasing resource. That should be quite clear to everybody.
As a fellow New Jerseyan, you nailed it perfectly. Our Turkey hunting at least in the Northern/ Mid part of the state is in decline for sure. Lower bag limits should be considered. Great thread
Fellow NJ hunter myself, here's my 2 cents: no one mentioned the benefit of the current system at limiting the amount of hunters hunting a specific week in a specific zone. Sure you can buy all the OTC permits you want but typically they are only available in the zones with limited public access and limited to no turkey population.
I agree the northern part of the state is in trouble and has been for awhile now, I've hunted it my whole life and its very hard to consistently be on turkeys. Knowing this I have a moral thing in my mind if I or someone I know harvests a bird from an area (public or private) I won't go back there that spring even if I can get an OTC permit for that zone.
With that being said I wouldn't be opposed to a 3 bird per turkey season limit or even a 2 bird per season limit per hunter. But thats not really the root cause of the issue. Its the out of whack predator prey balance and sub-prime turkey habitat. Much of the public land isn't right for turkeys. It amazes me any turkeys survive at all with all the coyotes, opossums, foxes, hawks, etc. up in north jersey.
Quote from: bobcat19 on August 08, 2021, 10:16:57 AM
Fellow NJ hunter myself, here's my 2 cents: no one mentioned the benefit of the current system at limiting the amount of hunters hunting a specific week in a specific zone. Sure you can buy all the OTC permits you want but typically they are only available in the zones with limited public access and limited to no turkey population.
I agree the northern part of the state is in trouble and has been for awhile now, I've hunted it my whole life and its very hard to consistently be on turkeys. Knowing this I have a moral thing in my mind if I or someone I know harvests a bird from an area (public or private) I won't go back there that spring even if I can get an OTC permit for that zone.
With that being said I wouldn't be opposed to a 3 bird per turkey season limit or even a 2 bird per season limit per hunter. But thats not really the root cause of the issue. Its the out of whack predator prey balance and sub-prime turkey habitat. Much of the public land isn't right for turkeys. It amazes me any turkeys survive at all with all the coyotes, opossums, foxes, hawks, etc. up in north jersey.
Well said, great facts....it's really a combination of things.......
Also looking forward to the New Jersey Fall Turkey Season. 1 Jake or Gobbler is quite enough if,I am Lucky.
Kee- Kee- Run-- BOOM!
Just read your reply here bobcat19.
Part of the Problem with North New Jersey is the obvious lack of Funds to improve WMAs. Wanaque Wildlife Management Area is no more and instead that area has been added on Ironworks State Park.
Nothing but Black Bears in that area now. Hardly any Deer and No Turkeys. I have the 1992 - Guide To New Jersey's WMA's. Check below.
Upland Game- Certain Area are being managed for Upland game species. Not anymore.. Wish,I knew where all that money coming in goes.
A few years back- the Turkey Check Stations in New Jersey were discontinued. Personally, I think this was a big mistake. If a Man kills 5 or 6 Gobblers- he may forget to report online #s 4 + 5. Or just choose not to. I miss talking with other Spring Turkey Hunters down at Tackle + Field in Wanaque,NJ.
I Guess NJ Fish ,Game,+ Wildlife is short on Money..
Time for me next week to get my New Jersey Non Resident Hunting License. $135.50. Time also to get my Butt into Scouting out the Mountains. Hoping that the Turkey Population has improved some over last Spring.
So Many Black Bears now and not many Turkeys.
Quote from: GobbleNut on July 25, 2021, 02:39:33 PM
Quote from: quavers59 on July 25, 2021, 02:20:04 PM
No Sir Gobblenut- 1 Spring Gobbler is permitted each day. However if that Hunter is succesful on a Monday- that hunter can purchase another turkey permit over the counter " if" more Turkey permits are still available for that " Zone". And this can continue on and on.
And you can Buy a permit for another Zone as well.
So yeah- if a hunter is Greedy and has the time and the money- that Spring Hunter can easily buy 15 or more Turkey permits.
"The System needs to change pronto".
Sounds like it. How do the rest of your fellow NJ turkey hunters feel about this? If your opinion is universal among your fellow hunters, the way to affect change is to organize and lobby your DNR to get it done. (This is one arena where the NWTF clout is a benefit. If you have a state NWTF chapter, you should contact the leadership and find out where they stand, and if they agree with you, petition the DNR to get things changed)
GobbleNut many of the NJ hunters feel the same. There are guys retired, laid off, contractors that take a month of mornings off as their guys work that kill over a dozen birds a year. I know a fella kills near 20 a year. The money these guys spend trumps wildlife management
The state had asked for suggestions to update the game code. One thing I recommended was this very thing. I think that number might be good. Heck if it went to 2 I couldn't care less but I actually mentioned in my email 3 birds.
Not only is the state screwed up there, I'm deviating but we have no deer bag limits in some spots. It's unlimited does, some places you can kill 2 before you even call in to report, than you're free that second to kill 2 more, and so on and so on.
The baiting is ridiculous. Guys bait deer year round, not to hunt cause anyone baits doesn't hunt anyhow but they use those areas to keep birds nearby. They also bait just for turkey with the premise it's for deer. All nonsense and one reason I primarily stay in NY. Thankfully I'm only 4 houses away from it.
The numbers are really bad around here now. There's one good thing to that though. It's been super rough and that makes pressure disappear as guys won't stick with it. You'll still have the everyday high number guys that will take up what they can as long as allowed.
NO ABSOLUTELY NOT!! When you let your state or states take way your game limits you'll never get them back, here in NJ they took our Black Bear season away why because we let it happen in many ways.
If you want to take less animals hunting it starts with us the hunters we are the only ones that can control the limits of our wildlife's future. Asking a state to take away something is just plane stupid. If you don't like what limits are set at, don't pull the trigger on what ever steps out in front of you or by less permits. I'd rather see NJ change the shell size from #7 being the smallest to #9 and the use of a 410 these laws we can certainly change and get on board with other states already using such laws.
In response to - ol timer above. The Problem with New Jersey's current System now is increasing numbers of Spring Hunters are finding out that if you know how to work the System- one can easily buy 20+ Turkey permits.
I see no problem at all with setting a " Ceiling " Limit on how many Gobblers 1 Man is Legally able to Kill. Even if that Max Limit is reduced to 5 or 3 Gobblers. Most Spring Turkey Hunters would be overjoyed to put the tag on 3 Gobblers in 1 State and then move on to a close by Neighboring State and look to take 2 more Gobblers.
Quote from: Ol timer on February 06, 2022, 01:11:07 PM
NO ABSOLUTELY NOT!! When you let your state or states take way your game limits you'll never get them back, here in NJ they took our Black Bear season away why because we let it happen in many ways.
If you want to take less animals hunting it starts with us the hunters we are the only ones that can control the limits of our wildlife's future. Asking a state to take away something is just plane stupid. If you don't like what limits are set at, don't pull the trigger on what ever steps out in front of you or by less permits. I'd rather see NJ change the shell size from #7 being the smallest to #9 and the use of a 410 these laws we can certainly change and get on board with other states already using such laws.
Respectfully, comparing the outlawing of bear hunting (a societal-perception issue) with sportsmen wanting to have reasonable harvest regulations for wild turkeys is a pretty big leap. I understand where you are coming from to a degree but, as of now, the general public does not perceive turkey hunting in the same light as they do bears, which are viewed by many to be a somewhat-limited, iconic species, and especially in states or locations with high human densities. Whether that perception is warranted does not matter. Outlawing bear hunting there was strictly a matter of wildlife managers and hunters being overwhelmed by an attitude of the non-hunting public that it should be stopped.
If and when the general population, which in New Jersey probably outnumbers hunters by at least 100 to 1, decides they want to outlaw turkey hunting (or any other game species), I can assure you that it will not be because sportsmen "let it happen". Until that time, sportsmen need to be policing their own ranks and supporting reasonable restrictions on things like bag limits where they need to be addressed. In my opinion, quavers59 is right on target in rallying sportsmen to oppose what clearly should be viewed by all responsible sportsmen as being an unreasonable harvest regulation as it related to the bag limit for spring gobbler hunting in New Jersey.
I like to know what working the system means?? Unless your buying tags for a certain zone and hunting a different zone with them permits COs are looking for just that. And as far as comparing the bear shutdown to limits on turkey is similar your telling the state it's ok to take away your right to hunting what others worked hard for us to have now. The numbers of Turkeys harvested in NJ since it started in 1982 have not moved the needle that much in decline look up the numbers!! just as many turkey die from other causes it's not more hunters less turkey in NJ, ask the people in the suburbs how many birds are under there feeders everyday. The sky is not falling.
ol timer-- obviously you are referring to Central + South New Jersey as far as High Turkey numbers. Northren New Jersey- that is not the case. Very Low Turkey numbers.
Bluntly put- it is just not right that 1 Man can Legally Kill almost as many Gobblers as he wants and never leave his home State to do it.
This practice also keeps a Highly Skilled Spring Turkey Hunter in the Turkey Woods while others lacking Skill and perhaps have not taken 1 Gobbler in 3 Springs probably won't with the other Man in the same Woods with him.
Example being- 3 Weeks have gone by since the Spring Turkey Opener. Mike has killed 8 Gobblers already on 3 Private Land Tracts in 2 different zones because he has the proper permits for those 2 Zones. Now he is on to Public Land the next day and Jack is in the same Public Woods and they hear the same close by Gobbler.
Who do do think will call that Tom in? Jack with no Gobblers in 4 Springs or Mike - going to Gobbler #9??
Well my suggestion is come down to NJ from NY and sit in on a few game commission meetings and tell the biologist how you want a non resident like yourself to make changes to the game laws because you think they set unfair hunting practices. Good Luck with that it's like beating a dead horse get on board with what's here in NJ or don't hunt it. Guys always complain but seldom do anything to help the program all talk. Be a volunteer to see how it really is. I still like to know how working the system is in NJ please tell me.
I have been hunting NJ since the season opened. I have studied the brood counts, yearly harvests, and participated every spring. I have been retired since 2019, and spend 30 plus days each spring hunting NJ, and NY. The NJ flock is Estimated, (loose term here) to be around 23,000 birds.The yearly harvest is between 2700-3100 birds per year. The best recorded harvest since 2004 was 3454 birds taken in 2006. The last few seasons have shown a decline in gobbling, sightings, sign etc., at least in the Northern parcels that I hunt. Average mean brood size has been declining the past few years, with 2020 having a 2.33 mean brood size which is the 2nd lowest on record since 2004. Keep in mind, mean brood size is very dependent on weather conditions during the window when the poults are born. The harvest in 2021 was 2327 birds, down 523 birds from 2020. This is a little over 18%. The thing that I don't agree with is they changed the check-in procedure a few years ago to phone-in or on-line check in. I enjoyed going to the check stations to have my bird recorded. I realize that it probably has a cost savings incentive behind this, but when it comes to managing a precious resource like our Wild Turkey, cost savings initiatives better not be detrimental to the resource survival. I have had to work a bit harder to harvest NJ gobblers, but in a way it has made me a better hunter. I have to hope that the biologists in charge know how to handle, adjust, and over-all maintain our population. A continued 18%+ decline hopefully will attract attention and measures to halt these declines and put measures in place to regain a steady, healthy population of this great quarry we all love to chase....best of luck to all....
ol timer-- I don't have to sit in on any meetings. The right person might read this Thread here.
By having a fixed Max limit on Gobblers- 5 or 3- in NJ- all Turkey Hunters will benefit.
Yes last year's numbers went down from the previous year and many factors fall into play there. If you look at the harvesting totals for the northern section of the state those numbers are consistent going back to 2004 so tell me what damage has been done by over harvesting in them zones?? I see more of a decline in the southern sections of the state and again weather and unknowns can change thing from year to year just like deer hunting. As far as the tag in stations closing its set up better now not traveling long distances to find a check station if that person that never tagged a bird legally in then nothing changed.
ol timer-- without a doubt you are one of the New Jersey Spring Turkey Hunters who buy well over 20 Spring Turkey permits with the object to Kill as many Gobblers as possible.
Your many quick replys here tell me that.
Nothing lasts forever- eventually NJ will do the right thing and set a Max Gobbler Limit of hopefully 5 or 3- which is plenty.
I'd say you have all the answers but none of the right ones. How's this for a start try to be more conservative with the habitat you have in your state and stay out of NJ.
ol timer-- of course,I will continue to hunt in New Jersey. I am proposing the right answers- that of NJ setting a Max Spring Gobbler limit. Everyone in their right mind would agree to that.
For even 20 Spring Turkey Hunters who take advantage of this because they have Deep Pockets, and a Whole Month to take as many Gobblers as possible in 1 Small State- that is just wrong. 1 guy takes 18 Gobblers and his close buddy takes 12. Even your Peers won't respect you got that. What it comes down to Basically + Bluntly is Greed.
Tell that to your buddy Barney Rubble, Fred !!
Hi Chen...
Quote from: Bowguy on February 06, 2022, 05:26:00 AM
Quote from: GobbleNut on July 25, 2021, 02:39:33 PM
Quote from: quavers59 on July 25, 2021, 02:20:04 PM
No Sir Gobblenut- 1 Spring Gobbler is permitted each day. However if that Hunter is succesful on a Monday- that hunter can purchase another turkey permit over the counter " if" more Turkey permits are still available for that " Zone". And this can continue on and on.
And you can Buy a permit for another Zone as well.
So yeah- if a hunter is Greedy and has the time and the money- that Spring Hunter can easily buy 15 or more Turkey permits.
"The System needs to change pronto".
Sounds like it. How do the rest of your fellow NJ turkey hunters feel about this? If your opinion is universal among your fellow hunters, the way to affect change is to organize and lobby your DNR to get it done. (This is one arena where the NWTF clout is a benefit. If you have a state NWTF chapter, you should contact the leadership and find out where they stand, and if they agree with you, petition the DNR to get things changed)
GobbleNut many of the NJ hunters feel the same. There are guys retired, laid off, contractors that take a month of mornings off as their guys work that kill over a dozen birds a year. I know a fella kills near 20 a year.
Near 20??????? Wow! That guys pretty good. That's almost 1 a day. The 400 dollars in permits alone. I'm glad I'm not that good. I'd be broke :TooFunny:
Quote from: Ol timer on February 06, 2022, 01:11:07 PM
I'd rather see NJ change the shell size from #7 being the smallest to #9 and the use of a 410 these laws we can certainly change and get on board with other states already using such laws.
I definitely understand the shell for your 410.
However,..
Id rather see it go back to lead. Shot no smaller then 6 and no greater then number 4's. Like the way it was. Maybe some will learn how to take an ethical shot instead of shoot at birds at 60 yards.
Jmho..
Good luck to all wishing a safe happy hunting season :^)
Maybe we had a good hatch. :turkey:
Quote from: TrackeySauresRex on February 06, 2022, 11:29:29 PM
Quote from: Bowguy on February 06, 2022, 05:26:00 AM
Quote from: GobbleNut on July 25, 2021, 02:39:33 PM
Quote from: quavers59 on July 25, 2021, 02:20:04 PM
No Sir Gobblenut- 1 Spring Gobbler is permitted each day. However if that Hunter is succesful on a Monday- that hunter can purchase another turkey permit over the counter " if" more Turkey permits are still available for that " Zone". And this can continue on and on.
And you can Buy a permit for another Zone as well.
So yeah- if a hunter is Greedy and has the time and the money- that Spring Hunter can easily buy 15 or more Turkey permits.
"The System needs to change pronto".
Sounds like it. How do the rest of your fellow NJ turkey hunters feel about this? If your opinion is universal among your fellow hunters, the way to affect change is to organize and lobby your DNR to get it done. (This is one arena where the NWTF clout is a benefit. If you have a state NWTF chapter, you should contact the leadership and find out where they stand, and if they agree with you, petition the DNR to get things changed)
GobbleNut many of the NJ hunters feel the same. There are guys retired, laid off, contractors that take a month of mornings off as their guys work that kill over a dozen birds a year. I know a fella kills near 20 a year.
Near 20??????? Wow! That guys pretty good. That's almost 1 a day. The 400 dollars in permits alone. I'm glad I'm not that good. I'd be broke :TooFunny:
Quote from: Ol timer on February 06, 2022, 01:11:07 PM
I'd rather see NJ change the shell size from #7 being the smallest to #9 and the use of a 410 these laws we can certainly change and get on board with other states already using such laws.
I definitely understand the shell for your 410.
However,..
Id rather see it go back to lead. Shot no smaller then 6 and no greater then number 4's. Like the way it was. Maybe some will learn how to take an ethical shot instead of shoot at birds at 60 yards.
Jmho..
Good luck to all wishing a safe happy hunting season :^)
Maybe we had a good hatch. :turkey:
Gotta tell ya I resent your ignorance quoting me. For one you're inferring I'm a liar. That I'm not. The man kills near 20 very often. Higher teens would be most accurate. I won't even say every bird is perfectly legal. I don't condone some of the techniques. Also multiple states are involved. Yea it's hundreds and hundreds of dollars in permits. Just because you can't do it or think it's crazy, (I think so as well) doesn't mean it's not a fact. Add out of state licenses for multiple states and even though not every bird perfectly legal the man's tenacity might leave many feeling somewhat part time hunters.
Quote from: quavers59 on February 06, 2022, 04:53:55 PM
ol timer-- I don't have to sit in on any meetings. The right person might read this Thread here.
By having a fixed Max limit on Gobblers- 5 or 3- in NJ- all Turkey Hunters will benefit.
Let me sum this up post up easily 20 years ago quavers 59 walked into NJ woods and killed Turkey s 50 ft from his truck fast forward to 2022 he's got a hair up his because he can't kill a turkey in the same spot as easy anymore. The residents in this state know where the birds are and do well if they wish to hunt them. Quaver59 won't do anything to support conservation or help with habitat but stir the pot for his own personal gain he's all talk. And for the record I take more than 20 birds a year and there all banded.
ol timer/chenrossi of a certain NJ Hunting site. First of all you are pissed because,I Blocked you last week on that site.
As far as taking Birds 50 feet from my Truck.-- Really... My 29th year of Turkey hunting is coming up this year. I only have access to Public Land and,I hunt mountains + Wetlands. 50ft from the truck-- really.
Obviously you are referring to the picture,I posted on coming out of the " Newark Watershed" at the gate. The Man who took that picture was the Man who patrolled for the Watershed. And he checked my credentials beforehand.
Being the Author of 3 Turkey Hunting Books, I have a great interest in seeing the current NJ Turkey Hunting Format changed for the better. And the Awful Loophole of being able to buy a Huge number of Turkey Permits has to change in a future year.
5 Tops or 3 Gobblers should be the Max Limit allowed for Spring Turkey Hunters in NJ. -- It is just that simple. I was actually moving on from this Thread- but you brought me back . That is also the reason,I had to block you for your constant PMS on the Jersey hunting site.
Keep Squawking-- your " gravy train" will end in a future Spring when a Max limit is installed.
Meanwhile- every time you Post- you will bring this Thread straight back to the top because you can't stop.
Perhaps the right official in NJ has followed this Thread already.
First off I am not chenrossi or whoever he may be on another website you don't know who I am but I am well aware of you on certain websites from other individuals that I am contact with,you assume things with no facts.
I don't really want to keep jumping into the middle of the pissin' match here, but this discussion gives rise to the opportunity to discuss philosophical thoughts of turkey hunting,...so here goes:
First off, I agree with the notion that resident hunters (and residents, in general) should be the primary voice in how the wildlife species in their states are managed. That is one of the primary tenets of wildlife law in this country. That is, the (non-migratory) wildlife in each state is "held in trust" for (and by) the citizens of that state. Hence, the residents should make the rules. Unfortunately, that is why we see things like the hunting of large predators (bears, wolves) being outlawed.
That is also the reason that consumptive users (hunters, trappers, etc.) have got to walk a fine line in terms of showing the general populace that they are being responsible in how the state's wildlife is "consumed". Piss the public off with an attitude that hunters do not care about the overall well-being of a species...and just want to kill them...and you have a sure-fire recipe for turning that general public against hunting...and the result is more and more species being treated like bears.
Will having a gobbler bag limit that allows an individual to kill (what is viewed as) an excessive number of birds result in the public turning against turkey hunting? I can't say for sure, but I do know that it certainly doesn't help. And more to the point, do any of us want to have our turkey populations in our states viewed as a "body count" species like, say, ducks and geese? I, for one, do not.
Here's a thought (which I have brought up a number of times in the past): If your state has so many turkeys that you can allow hunters to kill umpteen of them each year, why don't you promote trapping a bunch of those birds, packing them up, and sending them to the states that are experiencing apparent drastic declines in their populations? That attitude was wildly successful in the past, so why not try it again rather than just allowing hunters to mow down as many turkeys as they want in a state that is experiencing a period of high turkey numbers? Do you really need to pull the trigger that many times each spring and put that many gobblers in your freezer? If so, look in the mirror and ask yourself why? Once you get past that facade of having to prove you are a great turkey hunter, you should not like what you see...
At least that is the view from here...
[/quote]
GobbleNut many of the NJ hunters feel the same. There are guys retired, laid off, contractors that take a month of mornings off as their guys work that kill over a dozen birds a year. I know a fella kills near 20 a year.
[/quote]
Near 20??????? Wow! That guys pretty good. That's almost 1 a day. The 400 dollars in permits alone. I'm glad I'm not that good. I'd be broke :TooFunny:
Quote from: Ol timer on February 06, 2022, 01:11:07 PM
I'd rather see NJ change the shell size from #7 being the smallest to #9 and the use of a 410 these laws we can certainly change and get on board with other states already using such laws.
I definitely understand the shell for your 410.
However,..
Id rather see it go back to lead. Shot no smaller then 6 and no greater then number 4's. Like the way it was. Maybe some will learn how to take an ethical shot instead of shoot at birds at 60 yards.
Jmho..
Good luck to all wishing a safe happy hunting season :^)
Maybe we had a good hatch. :turkey:
[/quote]
Gotta tell ya I resent your ignorance quoting me. For one you're inferring I'm a liar. That I'm not. The man kills near 20 very often. Higher teens would be most accurate. I won't even say every bird is perfectly legal. I don't condone some of the techniques. Also multiple states are involved. Yea it's hundreds and hundreds of dollars in permits. Just because you can't do it or think it's crazy, (I think so as well) doesn't mean it's not a fact. Add out of state licenses for multiple states and even though not every bird perfectly legal the man's tenacity might leave many feeling somewhat part time hunters.
[/quote]
Sir,
I'm not being confrontational and certainly not "ignorant". I've been here a long time and so have you. I'm stating the guy is good and poked fun at it. I did not say you were a liar. Near 20 or high teens or whatever he wants to shoot have at it. (If legal) I've chased birds all over the state in NJ for a long time. I'm an ordinary average turkey hunter. But some days I'm NOT...I'm a lot worse then average. I will say... if there is illegal activity going on he should be reported! If there are hunters out there who shoot high teens/20's Which... There are very few! It's certainly not in the northern part of the state. I don't believe that to be the problem with the declining turkey population.
Happy,Safe Hunting again.
Quote from: Tom007 on February 06, 2022, 04:33:31 PM
I have been hunting NJ since the season opened. I have studied the brood counts, yearly harvests, and participated every spring. I have been retired since 2019, and spend 30 plus days each spring hunting NJ, and NY. The NJ flock is Estimated, (loose term here) to be around 23,000 birds.The yearly harvest is between 2700-3100 birds per year. The best recorded harvest since 2004 was 3454 birds taken in 2006. The last few seasons have shown a decline in gobbling, sightings, sign etc., at least in the Northern parcels that I hunt. Average mean brood size has been declining the past few years, with 2020 having a 2.33 mean brood size which is the 2nd lowest on record since 2004. Keep in mind, mean brood size is very dependent on weather conditions during the window when the poults are born. The harvest in 2021 was 2327 birds, down 523 birds from 2020. This is a little over 18%. The thing that I don't agree with is they changed the check-in procedure a few years ago to phone-in or on-line check in. I enjoyed going to the check stations to have my bird recorded. I realize that it probably has a cost savings incentive behind this, but when it comes to managing a precious resource like our Wild Turkey, cost savings initiatives better not be detrimental to the resource survival. I have had to work a bit harder to harvest NJ gobblers, but in a way it has made me a better hunter. I have to hope that the biologists in charge know how to handle, adjust, and over-all maintain our population. A continued 18%+ decline hopefully will attract attention and measures to halt these declines and put measures in place to regain a steady, healthy population of this great quarry we all love to chase....best of luck to all....
The checking stations definitely played a major part, this is true. The state Biologist, the few we had would take a leg from your harvest for disease testing. This don't happen anymore and is important and needed. I think it's more then the opossums, coons and coyotes. I've never had an application denied. My personal belief the state wants your money in the first and second lotteries and don't deny the application. They don't give two hoots about management.
:TrainWreck1:
Welp, spring must be on its way. Sure hope it hurries up.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Quote from: Tom007 on February 06, 2022, 04:33:31 PM
I have been hunting NJ since the season opened. I have studied the brood counts, yearly harvests, and participated every spring. I have been retired since 2019, and spend 30 plus days each spring hunting NJ, and NY. The NJ flock is Estimated, (loose term here) to be around 23,000 birds.The yearly harvest is between 2700-3100 birds per year. The best recorded harvest since 2004 was 3454 birds taken in 2006. The last few seasons have shown a decline in gobbling, sightings, sign etc., at least in the Northern parcels that I hunt. Average mean brood size has been declining the past few years, with 2020 having a 2.33 mean brood size which is the 2nd lowest on record since 2004. Keep in mind, mean brood size is very dependent on weather conditions during the window when the poults are born. The harvest in 2021 was 2327 birds, down 523 birds from 2020. This is a little over 18%. The thing that I don't agree with is they changed the check-in procedure a few years ago to phone-in or on-line check in. I enjoyed going to the check stations to have my bird recorded. I realize that it probably has a cost savings incentive behind this, but when it comes to managing a precious resource like our Wild Turkey, cost savings initiatives better not be detrimental to the resource survival. I have had to work a bit harder to harvest NJ gobblers, but in a way it has made me a better hunter. I have to hope that the biologists in charge know how to handle, adjust, and over-all maintain our population. A continued 18%+ decline hopefully will attract attention and measures to halt these declines and put measures in place to regain a steady, healthy population of this great quarry we all love to chase....best of luck to all....
No doubt that the permit fees are a major source of revenue for the NJ Division of Wildlife. We can only hope the dependency on these monies don't cloud their judgement when it comes to protecting our resources....be well, be safe...
Quote from: TrackeySauresRex on February 07, 2022, 10:14:20 AM
GobbleNut many of the NJ hunters feel the same. There are guys retired, laid off, contractors that take a month of mornings off as their guys work that kill over a dozen birds a year. I know a fella kills near 20 a year.
[/quote]
Near 20??????? Wow! That guys pretty good. That's almost 1 a day. The 400 dollars in permits alone. I'm glad I'm not that good. I'd be broke :TooFunny:
Quote from: Ol timer on February 06, 2022, 01:11:07 PM
I'd rather see NJ change the shell size from #7 being the smallest to #9 and the use of a 410 these laws we can certainly change and get on board with other states already using such laws.
I definitely understand the shell for your 410.
However,..
Id rather see it go back to lead. Shot no smaller then 6 and no greater then number 4's. Like the way it was. Maybe some will learn how to take an ethical shot instead of shoot at birds at 60 yards.
Jmho..
Good luck to all wishing a safe happy hunting season :^)
Maybe we had a good hatch. :turkey:
[/quote]
Gotta tell ya I resent your ignorance quoting me. For one you're inferring I'm a liar. That I'm not. The man kills near 20 very often. Higher teens would be most accurate. I won't even say every bird is perfectly legal. I don't condone some of the techniques. Also multiple states are involved. Yea it's hundreds and hundreds of dollars in permits. Just because you can't do it or think it's crazy, (I think so as well) doesn't mean it's not a fact. Add out of state licenses for multiple states and even though not every bird perfectly legal the man's tenacity might leave many feeling somewhat part time hunters.
[/quote]
Sir,
I'm not being confrontational and certainly not "ignorant". I've been here a long time and so have you. I'm stating the guy is good and poked fun at it. I did not say you were a liar. Near 20 or high teens or whatever he wants to shoot have at it. (If legal) I've chased birds all over the state in NJ for a long time. I'm an ordinary average turkey hunter. But some days I'm NOT...I'm a lot worse then average. I will say... if there is illegal activity going on he should be reported! If there are hunters out there who shoot high teens/20's Which... There are very few! It's certainly not in the northern part of the state. I don't believe that to be the problem with the declining turkey population.
Happy,Safe Hunting again.
Quote from: Tom007 on February 06, 2022, 04:33:31 PM
I have been hunting NJ since the season opened. I have studied the brood counts, yearly harvests, and participated every spring. I have been retired since 2019, and spend 30 plus days each spring hunting NJ, and NY. The NJ flock is Estimated, (loose term here) to be around 23,000 birds.The yearly harvest is between 2700-3100 birds per year. The best recorded harvest since 2004 was 3454 birds taken in 2006. The last few seasons have shown a decline in gobbling, sightings, sign etc., at least in the Northern parcels that I hunt. Average mean brood size has been declining the past few years, with 2020 having a 2.33 mean brood size which is the 2nd lowest on record since 2004. Keep in mind, mean brood size is very dependent on weather conditions during the window when the poults are born. The harvest in 2021 was 2327 birds, down 523 birds from 2020. This is a little over 18%. The thing that I don't agree with is they changed the check-in procedure a few years ago to phone-in or on-line check in. I enjoyed going to the check stations to have my bird recorded. I realize that it probably has a cost savings incentive behind this, but when it comes to managing a precious resource like our Wild Turkey, cost savings initiatives better not be detrimental to the resource survival. I have had to work a bit harder to harvest NJ gobblers, but in a way it has made me a better hunter. I have to hope that the biologists in charge know how to handle, adjust, and over-all maintain our population. A continued 18%+ decline hopefully will attract attention and measures to halt these declines and put measures in place to regain a steady, healthy population of this great quarry we all love to chase....best of luck to all....
The checking stations definitely played a major part, this is true. The state Biologist, the few we had would take a leg from your harvest for disease testing. This don't happen anymore and is important and needed. I think it's more then the opossums, coons and coyotes. I've never had an application denied. My personal belief the state wants your money in the first and second lotteries and don't deny the application. They don't give two hoots about management.
[/quote]
Brother excuse me for misreading you. My apologies. I pm ya earlier.
I agree with a reduced gobbler limit but that had recently been rejected out of hand in the proposal. N.j. likes their revenue. Of course, if we collapse the populations, revenue will follow.
As far as .410 and tss, a.410 with tss 9's is about as effective as a 3" twelve ga. with 5's. You're not shooting 60 yds. with .410 tss.
The reason for tss is pattern density not massively increased range (although some DO think that).
Responsibility doesn't come from the weapon, it comes from the hunter.
I'm all for .410/tss. Lighter gun. WAY less recoil. A way to engage youth and women and a way for experts to increase the challenge a little.
Lottery tags are up..got both of my 1st choices, let the madness begin.
Quote from: JeffC on February 25, 2022, 12:37:14 PM
Lottery tags are up..got both of my 1st choices, let the madness begin.
I know someone who was denied in week one. This never had happened before. Many applications were filed apparently. There goes my theory..