Seen all I could stand of this
http://www.turkey-talk.com/tblog/?p=126 (http://www.turkey-talk.com/tblog/?p=126)
Well Said!
The resurgence in the "technique" of "Fanning" is going to get someone shot too...
Shot in the face... :OGturkeyhead:
Sitting 15yds from a decoy spread is not what I call very safe either
yet half of the turkey hunting population does it. So who is to say.
maybe it originated on private land were someone has a large tract of land were no other hunters are supposed to be.
Not condoning this but who is to draw the line.
:z-dizzy:
Quote from: mookyj on May 29, 2014, 09:32:47 AM
Seen all I could stand of this
http://www.turkey-talk.com/tblog/?p=126 (http://www.turkey-talk.com/tblog/?p=126)
You need to change the background on your blog, it makes the text unreadable. I had to cut and paste it into a word document to read it.
I'm not a "fanning advocate" as you stated in your article. In fact I have never even attempted it. When the decoys first came out where you clip a cardboard gobbler on the end of your gun barrell, my first thought was "That's going to get someone shot". With that being said, fanning is not a new technique and has been around for a number of years. Do you have any hard data showing hunter fatalities or injuries as a direct result of "fanning" or "reaping" over the last 10 years? Is so could you please post them? If not, then why are you in such opposition of the practice? Is it because you just don't like it? Like I said it's been around for a number of years, and unless you have any hard data showing any fatalities or injuries, then yours is simply a non fact based opinion. As long as it's legal in the particular state that a hunter is hunting in, and he wants to shoulder the risk then I don't really see where the problem is.
I do applaud your concern for hunter safety, although in reading your article I really don't think hunter safety is your only concern. This quote from the article:
QuoteThe satisfaction of fooling, outwitting a narly old gobbler to your setup based on good calling as needed, using great knowledge of the turkeywoods, and not needing all these gimmicks is a great experience to be had.
That sentence just reeks of "He doesn't hunt my way so he's doing it wrong!" syndrome, which a lot of hunters are afflicted with nowadays.
I think some states will ban the use of such decoy devices next year, Sometimes things work slow, once the process gets going then it rolls. When it has to do with health and safety it works a little faster. I personally think such practices is not ethical hunting or fair to the turkeys, or safe. People need to take a little more time learning to hunt turkeys and less time wanting to kill them. I didn't even know this practice existed until this year, I don't think the people that make the laws are great hunters, but I think they would recognize a stupid and dangerous situation if they saw it. Why wait for casualty numbers for such a stupid situation. I am sure the indians in some tribe somewhere use to cover themselves with a deer skin and stalk deer, would you do that in todays world, I wouldn't. Yes this is all my opinion, and no I don't have any statistics to back it up, I wouldn't take the time to look for them, I hope the lawmakers will take the time to discuss it and act on it, and yes I would give my opinion to them hoping it would influence them.
Quote from: d.winsor on May 29, 2014, 10:52:53 AM
I think some states will ban the use of such decoy devices next year, Sometimes things work slow, once the process gets going then it rolls. When it has to do with health and safety it works a little faster. I personally think such practices is not ethical hunting or fair to the turkeys, people need to take a little more time learning to hunt turkeys and less time wanting to kill them.
So what is fair to the turkeys? Modern day shotguns with Hevi Shot loads? Flintlocks? Spears? Rocks? Sticks?
I believe that the real problem os the fact that is hunters spend to much time arguing with each other on what is right from.wrong so to speak. We have plenty of opposition from the anti's we dont need to be deciding what another hunter should or should not be doing. As long as no laws are broken and as others have said no evidence to support that is in fact dangerous then your article is just that an opinion. I for one do not choose to hunt this way but is it any different then someone sneaking up on an antelope while holding a decoy for a close bow shot. No its not. Again with the way society is today all they want to do is ban things that we choose to do. As most of us are well aware all of this nonsense goes away when we all fallow the one simple rule of know your target and what's beyond it.
Lets stop telling other guys what they should be doing. We have big enough battles on our plate.
What is fair to the turkeys is anything the lawmakers allow. If you follow the laws for the most part one is an ethical hunter.
Quote from: d.winsor on May 29, 2014, 11:13:31 AM
What is fair to the turkeys is anything the lawmakers allow. If you follow the laws for the most part one is an ethical hunter.
Exactly.
As long as you don not break the law Only you can determine what you feel is right or wrong.
While I agree this maybe an unsafe practice in some areas, other areas it would be perfectly safe.
Case in point, my area of small wood lots and fence lines and fragmented ownership this is a way to get a face of lead., in another area of the state I hunt its wide open 120 acre fields, birds spend the day out in the middle of them and I have tried it out there in the wide open. I felt perfectly safe as I was able to see my entire surroundings protecting myself from any harmful situation.
Hunting can be dangerous and I hope hunters are smart enough to know when to deploy tactics and when not to. I would be against more laws to protect those not smart enough to know the difference. IMO Those that may be getting shot using this tactic can't be much more then those sitting to close to decoys in general. At least there is a chance another hunter will notice the 150# guy behind it :)
BC, don't look for things unsaid. Those that know me, know that I am direct,and have no issue with tackling something straight on. The fact you question there being a safety issue tells me that you are for what ever it takes to kill a gobbler, to hell with the points I made in my blog.
There are states that ban all stalking period and I would guess they will deal with this soon enough. My reference of getting back to basics was a general statement, nothing more. My entire point is that is creates an unsafe situation, and if you argue that, then I would have to read between the lines as to the type of hunter you are, and that is not a compliment. However I don't know you, where you come from, and making assumptions are not always the best thing. I maintain that the practice is not defensible on concerns of safety and that is enough for me to oppose it. I known too many folks that have been shot, and some are still alive, some are not. Every year this stupid sh** goes on, and there is no justification for it.
Quote from: BC on May 29, 2014, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: mookyj on May 29, 2014, 09:32:47 AM
Seen all I could stand of this
http://www.turkey-talk.com/tblog/?p=126 (http://www.turkey-talk.com/tblog/?p=126)
You need to change the background on your blog, it makes the text unreadable. I had to cut and paste it into a word document to read it.
I'm not a "fanning advocate" as you stated in your article. In fact I have never even attempted it. When the decoys first came out where you clip a cardboard gobbler on the end of your gun barrell, my first thought was "That's going to get someone shot". With that being said, fanning is not a new technique and has been around for a number of years. Do you have any hard data showing hunter fatalities or injuries as a direct result of "fanning" or "reaping" over the last 10 years? Is so could you please post them? If not, then why are you in such opposition of the practice? Is it because you just don't like it? Like I said it's been around for a number of years, and unless you have any hard data showing any fatalities or injuries, then yours is simply a non fact based opinion. As long as it's legal in the particular state that a hunter is hunting in, and he wants to shoulder the risk then I don't really see where the problem is.
I do applaud your concern for hunter safety, although in reading your article I really don't think hunter safety is your only concern. This quote from the article:
QuoteThe satisfaction of fooling, outwitting a narly old gobbler to your setup based on good calling as needed, using great knowledge of the turkeywoods, and not needing all these gimmicks is a great experience to be had.
That sentence just reeks of "He doesn't hunt my way so he's doing it wrong!" syndrome, which a lot of hunters are afflicted with nowadays.
To argue the other side you could say everytime hunters step in the woods there is a possibility of someone being shot.. so we should end all hunting period to be safe.
Seems extreme, you accept the risk the same as exccepting the increased risk of using decoys and fanning methods all that can increase attention from other hunters as well as turkeys. Hunt smart and practice what you consider safe, if thats avoiding certain methods than so be it. Ethical doesn't belong in this conversation really, if it makes it too easy for you than don't do it. Some states allow baiting, the use of rifles, electronic calls or decoys, even shooting birds off the roost is legal in some states I certainly don't feel like any of thats needed for myself so I don't practice those methods.
Stay inside the law and hunt the way that brings YOU the most enjoyment, plenty of birds to go around.
BC your quote: "As long as it's legal in the particular state that a hunter is hunting in, and he wants to shoulder the risk then I don't really see where the problem is."
Bull, when someone is this reckless they put you and I at risk, not just themselves. I am not good or OK with that. Very shortsighted thinking. As to hard data, it will be general listings as mistaken for game, or stalking, not method of hunt. I doubt Reaping is a category in any states incident lists.
Quote from: VanHelden Game Calls on May 29, 2014, 11:30:27 AM
While I agree this maybe an unsafe practice in some areas, other areas it would be perfectly safe.
Case in point, my area of small wood lots and fence lines and fragmented ownership this is a way to get a face of lead., in another area of the state I hunt its wide open 120 acre fields, birds spend the day out in the middle of them and I have tried it out there in the wide open. I felt perfectly safe as I was able to see my entire surroundings protecting myself from any harmful situation.
Hunting can be dangerous and I hope hunters are smart enough to know when to deploy tactics and when not to. I would be against more laws to protect those not smart enough to know the difference.
Good points.
Nothing To argue, you are over the top once you go parading around in a gobbler decoy getup. It is not just risk, it is unreasonable risk,and escalates probability to as much as saying one asked for it. This is a lawyers gold mine. What is inherently wrong is that one can follow the golden rules of identify your target, before and after, and in the scenario I laided out, you could be reasonably fooled well enough to shoot. That is no different than anti's showing up in the woods during deer season in a buck costume. Curious to see what you all have to say when some poor bastard gets shot doing this.
Quote from: TauntoHawk on May 29, 2014, 11:36:33 AM
To argue the other side you could say everytime hunters step in the woods there is a possibility of someone being shot.. so we should end all hunting period to be safe.
Seems extreme, you accept the risk the same as exccepting the increased risk of using decoys and fanning methods all that can increase attention from other hunters as well as turkeys. Hunt smart and practice what you consider safe, if thats avoiding certain methods than so be it. Ethical doesn't belong in this conversation really, if it makes it too easy for you than don't do it. Some states allow baiting, the use of rifles, electronic calls or decoys, even shooting birds off the roost is legal in some states I certainly don't feel like any of thats needed for myself so I don't practice those methods.
Stay inside the law and hunt the way that brings YOU the most enjoyment, plenty of birds to go around.
Most if not all incidents will have a written report. If you so choose open record request could be filed and some research done. IMO I would think most of the incidents would include heavy foliage, mistaken by sound and movement. This would encompass every aspect of turkey hunting regardless of method used. And actually may make using "reaping" in open a more safe practice of turkey hunting.
Again its up to us hunters to know the basic rules of gun safety, no law, no method of hunt will ver take the place of these rules (PERIOD)
Quote from: mookyj on May 29, 2014, 11:37:19 AM
BC your quote: "As long as it's legal in the particular state that a hunter is hunting in, and he wants to shoulder the risk then I don't really see where the problem is."
Bull, when someone is this reckless they put you and I at risk, not just themselves. I am not good or OK with that. Very shortsighted thinking. As to hard data, it will be general listings as mistaken for game, or stalking, not method of hunt. I doubt Reaping is a category in any states incident lists.
On a side note, we should ban all ultra realistic decoys. Talk about getting fooled :)
And I wonder how many calls have brought about the unsafe scenario of a hunter stalking a hunter. Think about how many times we move on a gobbler because another hunter fired him up and unknowingly walked into a setup. Maybe calls should be outlawed.
Seems the best and safest way to hunt turkeys is to wait in ambush. Walk in before light, plant you but to a tree and wait. No moving, no calls, no decoys. This way no hunter can be fooled.....
Mike, you are making assumptions about me and you couldn't be more off base. Like I said in the original post, unless you can provide us with some data showing that the practice is unsafe then yours is a non fact based opinion. I'm not even arguing for or against "fanning" or "reaping". Like I said I have never done it. What I am arguing against someone trying to push their agenda on someone else because they don't participate in the activity. It's the exact platform that the anti's use against us.
Hunters are a different breed at time. ::)
I don't like dog hunting, so I am going to attack the dog hunter every chance I get.
I only still hunt, so I will demean the stalk hunter at every opportunity.
I only hunt with a bow, so rifle hunters are beneath me and should be treated as such.
It's all silly.
If you can just show me one shred of proof that someone has been killed or injured while fanning I might be inclined to agree with you. However, I have never heard of one person getting killed or hurt while fanning. It's not like this just started a few months ago. People have been "fanning" for years. I heard a guy talking about it in the 70's before turkey hunting was even cool. Your entire argument is based off of what "might" happen. I might walk out to feed my turkeys here in a little while and a meteor falls out of the sky and wipes me out. Unlikely, but it might happen.
Quote from: VanHelden Game Calls on May 29, 2014, 11:49:42 AM
On a side note, we should ban all ultra realistic decoys. Talk about getting fooled :)
And I wonder how many calls have brought about the unsafe scenario of a hunter stalking a hunter. Think about how many times we move on a gobbler because another hunter fired him up and unknowingly walked into a setup. Maybe calls should be outlawed.
Seems the best and safest way to hunt turkeys is to wait in ambush. Walk in before light, plant you but to a tree and wait. No moving, no calls, no decoys. This way no hunter can be fooled.....
This guy get's it.
Quote from: BC on May 29, 2014, 11:57:02 AM
Quote from: VanHelden Game Calls on May 29, 2014, 11:49:42 AM
On a side note, we should ban all ultra realistic decoys. Talk about getting fooled :)
And I wonder how many calls have brought about the unsafe scenario of a hunter stalking a hunter. Think about how many times we move on a gobbler because another hunter fired him up and unknowingly walked into a setup. Maybe calls should be outlawed.
Seems the best and safest way to hunt turkeys is to wait in ambush. Walk in before light, plant you but to a tree and wait. No moving, no calls, no decoys. This way no hunter can be fooled.....
This guy get's it.
Agreed Vanheldon is spot on with both of his posts.
Ban shotguns. Really skilled woodsman can just lasso the bird. If you make a mistake and lasso a hunter, you can just untie him after you have snatched his ultra realistic turkey decoy's head clean off. :turkey2:
BC, you need to reread my post to you, I mention that If I read between your lines it was not good, and that assumptions are not as well. The fact that you would argue that the practice is not very risky behavior does make wonder on your ability to apply rational logic. You also seem to think I need to spend 100's of hours researching each state agency to have my opinion, which by the way my blog is my opinion. Putting the shoe on the other foot, why don't you provide research that proves it as safe? Then we can argue how many shootings or fatalities are acceptable risk for this behavior or style of harvesting. Your posts and the others posts of convoluted logic doesn't cut it. If I wear a buck costume on opening day of deer firearm season, I'll get shot,and the opinion will be that I deserved every bit of that bullet. They decoy for deer too, as well as antelope and elk. Unless your setup in a wide open area with no dips or culverts to afford only partial views then you are "asking for it". My comment about ethics is that any act that is unsafe in our sport is also unethical, period, enough bullsh** about other types or styles of hunting. I hunt in ways some may not care for (dogs for turkeys for example) I got over it. MY blog post is about a serious concern, and all this convoluted crap you and others are trying to take this post into is irrelevant.
Standard liberal tactic of changing the argument when you can't win it based on facts or common sense, change the topic, cloud the issue in order to dilute the main or initial point. The topic is unacceptable safety risk caused by a questionable methods, in case you got offtrack.
Actually your tactics and comments are more liberal then anyone else who I have read on here.
Trying to.push your agenda on someone else. Blaming everyone for being unsafe when actually
only a few may act in an unsafe manner. As I said earlier if you are aware of what is beyond your target none.of this is unsafe.
Ok, Mike we will play it your way.......... even if your agenda is pretty transparent.
Here's my challenge to you. Either provide proof that fanning is causing deaths and injuries and is a dangerous practice or stop railing on and on like a windbag. If you can't do that, then don't be surprised when people disagree with you. You need to be armed with facts to back up your assertions when posting stuff like this. You came to this site with your opinion looking for a pat on the back and I can tell you didn't like it one bit when you didn't get it.
BC and mikeJD, are you both that dumb? there is no agenda other than my opinion is the method is unsafe,and should be banned for safety reasons. I nearly got shot by a trespasser over a week ago. If you read my other posts you would know that. I certainly don't require your pat on the back. You must think I would reach out to you for that? So far you haven't addressed any of my points other than make assumptions that this is about my way or the highway. Try passing this under the noses of firearm safety instructors. Before you reply, do some research on what they have to say about it. While your at it, there are a few states out there that would love to hear your side of it.
This thread, and that blog are ridiculous. More accidents have been caused by wearing dark camo clothing and making turkey noises with a turkey call, than there will ever be from fanning or reaping. Not only do you attack those stalking with decoys (a practice that has been around long before the white man stepped foot on this continent), but also anyone who uses a quality turkey decoy? Perhaps we should ban realistic calls too? What about realistic camouflage? When you use any decoy, whether it be a stalking fan, a quality decoy, or a cheap POS from WalMart you must use common sense. Every video I've seen posted of this practice it is done in a wide open field. There is almost no danger of being shot, unless someone is rifle hunting which is illegal in most states. Others were right, this is a classic case of "You don't hunt like me so you are unethical, reckless, and not a true sportsman. Bull spit. -Cole Cruickshank, Timberland Decoys
(http://timberlandtaxidermy.net/buttons/turk_logo2.png) (http://timberlandtaxidermy.net/decoys.html)
got a little skin in the game Timberland? You are correct it is ages old practice, you are incorrect that it is about only one way to do it. Don't you boast about how good your product looks? I wonder if any of your mounts have been shot in the field? It is kinda dumb to shoot hen calls inthe spring, so the comment about calls is a bit odd. At some point, how much stuff are we going to carry out there? THis is off topic, as the topic again is safety, Do you offer your decoys with safety orange? I don't know, just asking.
got a little skin in the game Timberland?
Of course I have skin in the game, as do hundreds of other people.
You are correct it is ages old practice, you are incorrect that it is about only one way to do it.
I haven't seen it done another way, and any other way might not be safe WHICH IS WHY NO ONE IS DOING IT.
Don't you boast about how good your product looks?
I do boast about how good my product looks, and even more so about how good my product works
I wonder if any of your mounts have been shot in the field?
I am not aware of any of my decoys being shot at. My clients must be practicing safe turkey hunting, just like I do.
It is kinda dumb to shoot hen calls inthe spring, so the comment about calls is a bit odd.
I never said anything about hen calls, I said turkey calls. There are plenty of gobbler calls on the market, and I'm sure they are next on your "hit list". That being said, I've called in several hunters using hen calls so dumb or not, it can happen.
At some point, how much stuff are we going to carry out there?
Carry whatever you want. That's just it, we don't care what you use. We don't judge you for what you do. We understand everyone enjoys turkey hunting in a different way. Personally, it is about getting close to gobblers...really close...and shooting them with my bow. I also like to record it so I can watch it throughout the year and remember the fun I had doing it. That means I have to carry a blind, chair, bow, tripod, camcorder, GoPros, backpack (calls, water, binos, etc.), and a Timberland Jake Decoy. I'm not doing any running and gunning with that much gear.
THis is off topic, as the topic again is safety, Do you offer your decoys with safety orange? I don't know, just asking.
I do not. Feathers don't paint well, so I would suggest if you want orange, wear a vest to and from your hunting area.
No Mike, I am not dumb.
I am still waiting on that proof that gives validity to what you are saying though. Surely if it's as dangerous as you say it is, then there must be some sort of documented proof. All hunting accidents are investigated and reports are completed.
Timberland, nice way to respond (not sarcastic comment) I am unaware of any hit list. Somewhere in the back of your mind you have to had the question that if your decoys look that real, could there be a problem? I know of people that had $15 decoys shot off their stakes much less something that is real looking that you produce. It's not the people who are careful and diligent. It's the wannabes, those with no patience, the poachers, the trespassers that will take any and all risks,and things such a reaping tactics, and ultra real looking decoys are mitigating circumstances.
Do you wear blaze orange??? you should! you said yourself you almost got shot although you weren't fanning which by your logic makes camo unsafe and unethical.
BC apparently you think I have all day to query databases that I don't have access to. Most of them are paid subscription services for research/academia/news So in your mind, unless it is reported properly it doesn't occur or exist. It is my opinion and you have yours. However you seem more interested in playing devil's advocate.
So in all of your spare time, should you find comprehensive reports with incident details let me know. An excel or other database that can be queried would be prefered.
Quote from: TauntoHawk on May 29, 2014, 01:49:13 PM
Do you wear blaze orange??? you should! you said yourself you almost got shot although you weren't fanning which by your logic makes camo unsafe and unethical.
TauntoHawk do you shoot at camo or just realistic decoys? (obviously sarcastic) seriously, that is your argument?
The thread is driveling down to foolishness and I need to get work done
mookJ
The argument you make is to assume we need protection for an activity we willing do and in doing so accept any risk. In fact in WI its the law that while engaged in hunting we can hold no liability to landowners unless $ has been passed.
Anyways back to topic, you are trying to protect people from themselves, if hunters feel endangered let the hunter make the choice to engage in the activity or not. If you are trying to protect those that may shoot a reaper, it would be better served giving them a lesson in gun safety and common sense. As you showed its the lack of these last 2 items and not reaping that almost got you killed.
Start a gun safety reminder blog and you can use all these hunting styles as examples of why its so important to identify you target, treat every gun as it were loaded, keep muzzle pointed in a safe direction and keep the finger out of the trigger guard until ready to shoot. And oh ya, respect others and their property as if it were yours.
I will go ahead and answer what you already know Mike.
Zero deaths directly attributed to the method of "fanning".
You must live in a dangerous part of the country Mike. I've been turkey hunting for over 30 years and I don't know a single person who's ever been shot or shot at.
First of all, who coined the term "reaping"? What a crappy terminology for a hunting technique, whether you agree with using it or not.
Secondly, I agree with the assessment that until there is hard, factual evidence to support the supposition that the use of this technique is any more dangerous than any other method used in turkey hunting, the discussion about it is purely based on emotion,...which is exactly where this discussion has ended up.
To flatly state that the use of this technique (the r-word), or fanning, or decoy use, or the use of any other visual representation of a turkey in turkey hunting is unsafe and should be frowned upon or banned outright without factual support for that position is questionable.
I had a very similar discussion with a good friend about using certain "visual stimuli" while hunting this spring. He condemned it based upon potential safety implications. My position was 1) anybody who uses any of these techniques assumes the risk associated with doing it, and they also must accept the consequences of not using good judgement in doing so,....and 2) regardless of all else, a hunter holding a decoy, or fan, other any other turkey part, when all is said and done, still looks like a hunter holding a decoy, fan, or turkey part. There is absolutely no excuse for anybody ever shooting someone in a mistaken-for-game hunting accident. Anyone that cannot safely identify their target when hunting has no business hunting.
Mister Joyner:
Thank you very much for your concern regarding my safety. However, I would like to request that both you and the state allow me to make my own decisions regarding my safety. In turn, I promise to not shoot anyone's decoy, nor to shoot at tail fans, nor to shoot at movement or sound.
Be safe out there, and if you feel a practice is unsafe, by all means, do not engage in it.
Respectfully,
GS
Quote from: GobbleNut on May 29, 2014, 02:13:54 PM
First of all, who coined the term "reaping"? What a crappy terminology for a hunting technique, whether you agree with using it or not.
Secondly, I agree with the assessment that until there is hard, factual evidence to support the supposition that the use of this technique is any more dangerous than any other method used in turkey hunting, the discussion about it is purely based on emotion,...which is exactly where this discussion has ended up.
To flatly state that the use of this technique (the r-word), or fanning, or decoy use, or the use of any other visual representation of a turkey in turkey hunting is unsafe and should be frowned upon or banned outright without factual support for that position is questionable.
I had a very similar discussion with a good friend about using certain "visual stimuli" while hunting this spring. He condemned it based upon potential safety implications. My position was 1) anybody who uses any of these techniques assumes the risk associated with doing it, and they also must accept the consequences of not using good judgement in doing so,....and 2) regardless of all else, a hunter holding a decoy, or fan, other any other turkey part, when all is said and done, still looks like a hunter holding a decoy, fan, or turkey part. There is absolutely no excuse for anybody ever shooting someone in a mistaken-for-game hunting accident. Anyone that cannot safely identify their target when hunting has no business hunting.
Well said Jim. Mistaken-for-game shootings are not accidents.
Quote from: mookyj on May 29, 2014, 01:59:47 PM
Quote from: TauntoHawk on May 29, 2014, 01:49:13 PM
Do you wear blaze orange??? you should! you said yourself you almost got shot although you weren't fanning which by your logic makes camo unsafe and unethical.
TauntoHawk do you shoot at camo or just realistic decoys? (obviously sarcastic) seriously, that is your argument?
The thread is driveling down to foolishness and I need to get work done
I don't know of anyone or even directly heard of anyone that has ever shot at either... My point was to sound over top, because blaming camo, blaming decoys, blaming calls is all a bit silly and foolish.
One question for mookyj. Did you vote for Obama?
My brother responded this past season (not this spring, last) to a call where a hunter had been shot (he was fine). He was using a hen call, not a gobbler call. It was in a 575,000 acre National Forest. He did not have a decoy. I know of one other incidence, where a grandchild was shot on his granddad's lap. Happened in my neck of the woods, maybe 25 years ago or so-pretty sure the child was killed. I would bet a paycheck that dog hunting while carrying buckshot is statistically more likely to get someone killed, but that is just a hunch.
I know of close to a dozen dove field shootings that I responded to in a 5 year career in volunteer fire service. That was south of where I now live-no fatalities. Did have one guy spitting 7.5 lead out of his mouth while at the scene though.
Shootings happen, but not very often.
For the record, I think someone trying to ban a practice (that I think every person on this thread said they would NEVER personally try) has the burden of proof to show that said practice is unsafe. Now, to be clear, Mooky is not trying to ban anything. Just expressing an opinion on a practice, as is his right. Others disagree, as is their right.
Quoteultra real looking decoys are mitigating circumstances.
Wait a sec. Are you now saying that using ultra real dekes is asking for it too? Just trying to understand.
Mr. Joyner, can you please explain your allegation that any of the behaviors in your piece are unethical?
Just because you haven't or don't do it does not make it unethical. No matter how bigtime you think you are. Your soap box seems more like a high horse. :smiley-char092:
Quote from: g8rvet on May 29, 2014, 05:58:28 PM
Now, to be clear, Mooky is not trying to ban anything. Just expressing an opinion on a practice, as is his right.
That is not true at all. Here is what he says:
QuoteIf you come to the same or similar conclusion as I, let your wildlife agencies know, and hopefully ban this practice...
Quote from: g8rvet on May 29, 2014, 05:59:55 PM
Quoteultra real looking decoys are mitigating circumstances.
Wait a sec. Are you now saying that using ultra real dekes is asking for it too? Just trying to understand.
Yes he is.
QuoteI cannot go along with $100-$400 decoys made to be ultra realistic or done as production line taxidermy. Seriously, if you put out a taxidermy mount or one of these über expensive decoys, how is one going to explain that away at trial for a shooting incident in the turkey woods.
Quote from: spaightlabs on May 29, 2014, 07:48:52 PM
Mr. Joyner, can you please explain your allegation that any of the behaviors in your piece are unethical?
unsafe=unethical for purposes of my blog post
Just because you haven't or don't do it does not make it unethical. No matter how bigtime you think you are. Your soap box seems more like a high horse. :smiley-char092:
bigtime? hardly it doesn't pay my mortgage. You don't like my opinion, so you make a comment on my ego....poor argument on your part. Not sure why this is being spun as a personal....... I started of the blog saying I was on a big soap box and why....or did you just skip over that detail?
Quote from: Timberland Taxidermy on May 29, 2014, 09:40:59 PM
Quote from: g8rvet on May 29, 2014, 05:58:28 PM
Now, to be clear, Mooky is not trying to ban anything. Just expressing an opinion on a practice, as is his right.
That is not true at all. Here is what he says:
QuoteIf you come to the same or similar conclusion as I, let your wildlife agencies know, and hopefully ban this practice...
g8rvet is correct, if you agree with me, make your voice heard Banning it is my opinion, You either agree or not, I have no power over others opinion other than putting it out there for all of you to ponder. It is my right as it is yours to express an opinion. Nothing stopping you from putting out your own blog. It's that simple
Quote from: g8rvet on May 29, 2014, 05:59:55 PM
Quoteultra real looking decoys are mitigating circumstances.
Wait a sec. Are you now saying that using ultra real dekes is asking for it too? Just trying to understand.
Yes he is. QuoteI cannot go along with $100-$400 decoys made to be ultra realistic or done as production line taxidermy. Seriously, if you put out a taxidermy mount or one of these über expensive decoys, how is one going to explain that away at trial for a shooting incident in the turkey woods.
Yes I am, the decoy industry has gotten away with pushing the envelope on this convincing hunters they need to blow big money on dekes. Very effective marketing, however reckless it may be. Yes I am calling companies out that do this, and eventually they will be found to have some responsibility into putting out products that are so real looking that they may be mistaken for the real thing. Ultimately the shooter gets nailed for it, but a good trial attorney will educate you right quick on what your percentage of responsibility you have. No doubt you 'll get your panties in a wad over my statement, but if you look at this objectively, nothing I say here is profound, you just don't like it as it is detrimental to your business. My comments about realistic decoys was in coupling with reaping method where in certain situations either the stalker may get shot, or may inadvertently shoot a guy with a ultra real looking gobbler decoy. I really hate repeating all this, and tired of all these convoluted retorts when I said it plain and simple the first time.
the whole mess of you throwing up arguments about calls, camo and all that is a poor attempt to dilute my major points. You don't aim at camo. or aim at calls, if you convince us into thinking your top of the line model decoy is the most realistic thing on the planet, guess what, some one will likely point a gun at it, if they wait long enough to see it not move (assuming it is not a motion equipped model or one with animitronics technology-which btw is probably next) then they don't shoot, it they don't wait, guess what, your primo $$ decoy gets shot maybe you get shot. I am happy that you haven't run into that yet nor your customers, and hope that you/them never do, but to think the possibility is not a real concern is foolish. NO doubt you and a few others in here will want court documents/police reports to prove the possibility even exists (sarcasm intended)
I have addressed my intentions every way from Sunday on this, so save the taunts and other BS. You don't have to agree with my perspective, There are many more out there than the peanut gallery here that do agree, and they too have voices both as industry professionals as well as forum members here and other sites. There will be changes coming to address where all this is going, and the naysayers might have to deal with rules they don't agree with. Most states publicly discourage it, others already make it illegal. It is for a good reason and some of you need to come to grips with it. No gobbler anywhere is worth a tragedy that could easily have been prevented. Sadly, I think most of you can understand the concepts of defensive driving, but cannot apply the same to this situation.
The point, succinctly, that a number of individuals have tried to make, including myself, is that it has to be proven that there is a problem before proposing to ban something. Currently, there is little evidence to support the hypothesis that this tactic is dangerous, other than the preconceived notion on the part of some individuals that there are significant numbers of hunters who participate in turkey hunting that do not have the common sense to positively identify their target before shooting.
I don't particularly like the idea of hunting turkeys by using this technique,...mainly because I don't think it takes much skill or woodsmanship to do it, and I have always had this romantic attachment to the notion that turkey hunting was different because, to be consistently successful, you had to develop skills and woodsmanship. However, to condemn this hunting method as being unsafe when, at this point in time, that condemnation does not really seem to have much factual support, is a bandwagon I am not willing to jump on.
...And I still hate calling that technique "reaping",...what an awful term for any kind of hunting activity.
I do not know enough about this particular subject to comment on the validity of creating regulation against it ...
But, I do not for one second believe that just because something is legal, it is therefore ethical... I also believe that hunters should indeed be the biggest stewards of the outdoors and hunting.
If a method gives an obvious unfair advantage to the hunters (say electronic calls), or proves to be unsafe (such as wearing a realistic turkey hat during turkey season), I would say it would be in the hunters best interest to make such illegal, or create some regulation.
As hunters, we are the ones both looking out for the best interest of the game we chase, the safety of other hunters, and our own hunting rights. It would seem to me that interceding before a topic becomes a public interest is in the benefit of ourselves and our future rights as hunters...
On the other hand, it would be impossible, as well as counterproductive to create regulations that would adhere to the personal ethics of all hunters... I am not a fan of regulation or imposing such unless there is a true benefit to the game being chased, the safety of hunters, or the rights of other hunters (i.e. setting up on another hunter's decoy spread as an example)...
That being said, this does seem to be a topic/method worth a second look by hunters and those who regulate hunting... It seems to me to be equally foolish to create unnecessary regulations as it would to ignore the necessity of others...
Quote from: Marc on May 30, 2014, 01:13:15 AM
I do not know enough about this particular subject to comment on the validity of creating regulation against it ...
But, I do not for one second believe that just because something is legal, it is therefore ethical... I also believe that hunters should indeed be the biggest stewards of the outdoors and hunting.
If a method gives an obvious unfair advantage to the hunters (say electronic calls), or proves to be unsafe (such as wearing a realistic turkey hat during turkey season), I would say it would be in the hunters best interest to make such illegal, or create some regulation.
As hunters, we are the ones both looking out for the best interest of the game we chase, the safety of other hunters, and our own hunting rights. It would seem to me that interceding before a topic becomes a public interest is in the benefit of ourselves and our future rights as hunters...
On the other hand, it would be impossible, as well as counterproductive to create regulations that would adhere to the personal ethics of all hunters... I am not a fan of regulation or imposing such unless there is a true benefit to the game being chased, the safety of hunters, or the rights of other hunters (i.e. setting up on another hunter's decoy spread as an example)...
That being said, this does seem to be a topic/method worth a second look by hunters and those who regulate hunting... It seems to me to be equally foolish to create unnecessary regulations as it would to ignore the necessity of others...
Well stated Marc. I personally agree with everything you wrote here. Establishing regulations based on factual safety issues, or even on valid wildlife management issues, is one thing. Making rules and laws based on one's own personal objections to certain forms of hunting is another altogether.
We will see where this newfound fascination with "reaping" (ughh) leads us. But where we go with it could end up being the proverbial "very slippery slope".
Well I know one thing.
I sure am glad we have guys like Mike who will save us from ourselves and govern things the way they see fit. After all they know what's best for all of us based off their opinion that they derived from no basis of fact whatsoever.
Thanks Mike..... :icon_thumright:
Quote from: mookyj on May 29, 2014, 10:22:10 PM
Quote from: spaightlabs on May 29, 2014, 07:48:52 PM
Mr. Joyner, can you please explain your allegation that any of the behaviors in your piece are unethical?
unsafe=unethical for purposes of my blog post
Just because you haven't or don't do it does not make it unethical. No matter how bigtime you think you are. Your soap box seems more like a high horse. :smiley-char092:
bigtime? hardly it doesn't pay my mortgage. You don't like my opinion, so you make a comment on my ego....poor argument on your part. Not sure why this is being spun as a personal....... I started of the blog saying I was on a big soap box and why....or did you just skip over that detail?
Now that you have deflected, would you mind going back and seriously answering the question regarding why you judge this to be an unethical method of harvest?
Unsafe = unethical is a load of rubbish. You work in the literary world - you know full well you cannot redefine terms at will. Unethical in the literary world would be publishing as fact that which you know to be untrue, or presenting the work of another as your own. Unethical as a hunting guide would be setting your client's on someone else's lease because you know they are out of town and no one checks the property.
Smoking is unsafe. Is it unethical? Driving without a seatbelt - unethical? You do not get to redefine accepted terms to prop up your personal position. I don't personally care for hunting hogs or lions with dogs. That doesn't make it unethical, and I will be damned if I will let my personal feelings about the practice lend any credence to the anti-hunters just because I don't care for it.
Thanks much.
A bit different direction...
I know a number of people have mentioned it, but I absolutely HATE the term "turkey reaping." It sounds like the equivalent of a cheap porno for turkey hunting. I think that kill-oriented language has strong potential to turn non-hunters off in a hurry. Obviously, harvesting a bird is the ultimate goal of our hunting, but the actual kill is just the final chapter of a book that is written all through spring (sorry to get all poetic ;D).
It is sad that many people's only impression of hunting (or just killing) comes from what they see on TV. Too many of these shows are all about killing, killing, selling products, and more killing. Here is an idea for a turkey hunting show: turkey hunting for the first 25 minutes and then a kill for the last 5. Not short clips of suicidal birds running to a setup, getting shot, and then a hunter going on and on about how that new load really whacked him at 45-60 yards.
Sorry, I have just had enough of hunting shows lately and all the "reaping, turkey armageddon, long range HV Beard Buster turkey load" crap that goes with them. Rant over. ;)
Geez people...just chase your bird any legal way you want, shoot it, tag it, and get out of the woods so somebody else can do the same.
j
Quote from: stinkpickle on May 30, 2014, 10:03:06 AM
Geez people...just chase your bird any legal way you want, shoot it, tag it, and get out of the woods so somebody else can do the same.
:z-winnersmiley:
Throw in safely and I think we have it.]
BC you need to change out your diapers. Reread the blog, I state that it's my opinion, my soapbox and my reasons for it. You don't agree with me and that's fine. I also state that if you do agree with me, then voice your opinions to those that regulate the game laws. You keep harping on proof, I have inquires to proper sources as I don't have access to paid subscription databases or those used by law enforcement. I personally know of stalking and decoy related shootings and I cannot dig up the documents as they don't come up in the search engines despite the search terms I have tried. News reports at most say mistaken for game or two person shooting, no details. I personally know they happened and exist. Sad that you are one of those that need to see bloody pictures, obituaries and accounts of tragedies to believe that it could even be plausible. Somehow this is all personal to you. I have no delusions that I could possibly save you or know what's best for you. I made my points, draw from it what you will
Quote from: BC on May 30, 2014, 08:38:19 AM
Well I know one thing.
I sure am glad we have guys like Mike who will save us from ourselves and govern things the way they see fit. After all they know what's best for all of us based off their opinion that they derived from no basis of fact whatsoever.
Thanks Mike..... :icon_thumright:
spaightlabs, "Unsafe = unethical" In the context I use it applies. Take it out of context all you want. It also covers safety as a part of ethics. Many unethical hunting practices result in unsafe situations. If you do something that jeopardizes the safety of others judging it as unethical is not a stretch
Again tired or repeating a clear message, nitpick all you want, but as I laid out my thoughts, you can agree or disagree. Personally I hope not to read new accounts of hunters being shot in the face, I know too many that have. Having nearly been shot recently it is an unnerving experience. At the end of the day If anything I say here prevents one occurrence I can live with it
I don't think Mookyj/Mike should be criticized for his opinion on this, nor should those that have expressed an opposing viewpoint. True, some of the comments on both sides here have digressed to an unsavory level, but the general discussion about the pros and cons of this hunting method, and similar tactics, is good to have.
The safety issue will, over time, sort itself out. If there are enough people that start using these tactics, we will ultimately find out if there are many turkey hunters out there that do not have the common sense to positively identify their targets before shooting. I would hope they are few and far between,...and my speculated opinion on this is that if they are willing to shoot at a guy hiding behind a gobbler decoy, they are perfectly capable of doing the same to a guy sitting at the base of a tree making turkey sounds. ....Which leads us to the point of this paragraph,...and that is that every single one of us, when we go into the woods hunting, must always be vigilant as to what is going on around us.
Personally, when I am turkey hunting, I feel pretty confident that another hunter is not going to be able to sneak up to within shotgun range of me without me being aware of it. ...And if I see someone attempting that, I am sure as heck going to do something to let them know I am there and also protect myself in the process.
Some will counter that with,.."what about the states that allow rifles for turkey hunting?" Granted, this adds another element to the discussion, but I would still maintain that anybody that would shoot at a guy with a gobbler decoy in a field is perfectly capable of doing the same to a camouflaged hunter calling somewhere. Would he be more likely to shoot at the decoy? Sure, he probably would, but the issue still come back to shooter carelessness, regardless of all else, and I will maintain that there are very few hunters afield nowadays that are so reckless as to do something like that,...unless they are doing it intentionally to begin with,...in which case it really makes no difference what the targeted hunter is doing.
The other real question I have about using tactics that challenge gobbler dominance like "reaping", fanning, and the use of gobbler decoys in any situation, is whether the widespread use of these tactics will negatively affect traditional turkey hunting methods and turkey populations, in general? At this time, I don't believe these tactics are very widely used, but it cannot be denied that they are extremely effective where they are used.
Will we ultimately be so successful at killing gobblers with all of these hunting methods in use that we will jeopardize our turkey populations,...and in doing so, jeopardize our entire spring gobbler hunting tradition? At what point do we become too effective at killing turkeys for their, and our, own good?
Quote from: GobbleNut on May 30, 2014, 10:24:27 AM...
Will we ultimately be so successful at killing gobblers with all of these hunting methods in use that we will jeopardize our turkey populations,...and in doing so, jeopardize our entire spring gobbler hunting tradition? At what point do we become too effective at killing turkeys for their, and our, own good?
Nah...state game agencies will just adjust the tag limits and season dates to account for the higher hunter success ratios.
Quote from: Grant Flaming on May 30, 2014, 09:52:06 AM
A bit different direction...
I know a number of people have mentioned it, but I absolutely HATE the term "turkey reaping." It sounds like the equivalent of a cheap porno for turkey hunting. I think that kill-oriented language has strong potential to turn non-hunters off in a hurry. Obviously, harvesting a bird is the ultimate goal of our hunting, but the actual kill is just the final chapter of a book that is written all through spring (sorry to get all poetic ;D).
It is sad that many people's only impression of hunting (or just killing) comes from what they see on TV. Too many of these shows are all about killing, killing, selling products, and more killing. Here is an idea for a turkey hunting show: turkey hunting for the first 25 minutes and then a kill for the last 5. Not short clips of suicidal birds running to a setup, getting shot, and then a hunter going on and on about how that new load really whacked him at 45-60 yards.
Sorry, I have just had enough of hunting shows lately and all the "reaping, turkey armageddon, long range HV Beard Buster turkey load" crap that goes with them. Rant over. ;)
Rant on, Grant! You are absolutely correct in your assessment. We hunters are our own worst enemies in how we present ourselves to the general public, many of whom do not understand, in the least, why we do what we do...
While this thread is entertaining its nothing more than a joke.
Another liberal trying to make decision for the people that he sees fit.
Had a bad experience and now needs to stand up on his blogbox so all can tell all the best thing to do to fix the problem.
Mike, if it is any consolation, I agree with most of what you have said. But you might as well accept what I was forced to accept several years ago. It is no longer a sport; the new breed demands guaranteed success and will pay through the nose for it.
I think "turkey reaping" is an apt term for that particular practice.
Quote from: mookyj on May 30, 2014, 10:08:33 AM
BC you need to change out your diapers. Reread the blog, I state that it's my opinion, my soapbox and my reasons for it. You don't agree with me and that's fine. I also state that if you do agree with me, then voice your opinions to those that regulate the game laws. You keep harping on proof, I have inquires to proper sources as I don't have access to paid subscription databases or those used by law enforcement. I personally know of stalking and decoy related shootings and I cannot dig up the documents as they don't come up in the search engines despite the search terms I have tried. News reports at most say mistaken for game or two person shooting, no details. I personally know they happened and exist. Sad that you are one of those that need to see bloody pictures, obituaries and accounts of tragedies to believe that it could even be plausible. Somehow this is all personal to you. I have no delusions that I could possibly save you or know what's best for you. I made my points, draw from it what you will
Quote from: BC on May 30, 2014, 08:38:19 AM
Well I know one thing.
I sure am glad we have guys like Mike who will save us from ourselves and govern things the way they see fit. After all they know what's best for all of us based off their opinion that they derived from no basis of fact whatsoever.
Thanks Mike..... :icon_thumright:
Mike, Mike, Mike..........
You seem to be taking our difference of opinion rather personally. Since this debate began you have called me dumb and now you are talking about cleaning out diapers. I really can't justify continuing this conversation if you are going to keep throwing insults and name calling like a 12 year old child.
That's not very professional Mr Joyner.
Seems like some people post their opinion on things to a public forum and then get mad when some of the public does not agree with their opinion. As long as it is legal then hunt how you want to.
BC, didn't realize I was getting paid to do this. I would address your comment directly back at you. One can argue things you have stated as dumb, and your tone appears to be personal. Sure enough you can argue that, sure that you will. I am also sure that I cannot get you to see it from my perspective (not that you have to agree), and foolish to try. I do appreciate the criticism about the background on my blog, I changed the translucence from 80 to 90% and it is more readable. That was constructive input, much appreciated.
Quote from: davisd9 on May 30, 2014, 12:17:10 PM
Seems like some people post their opinion on things to a public forum and then get mad when some of the public does not agree with their opinion. As long as it is legal then hunt how you want to.
This.
The next step down the slope from 'no fanning' or no ultra realistic decoys is to say that bow hunting is much safer than shotgunning, it takes greater skill, so only bow hunting should be allowed for turkeys. Or heck, if turkey hunting is so dangerous, maybe we ought to ban it all together.
Slippery slope.
Funny part about this 5 page post is that apparently very few people actually agreed with the OP's
need to butt in on what other people should or should not do.
Yet I bet not one of the hunters who commented actually participates in this Reaping technique.
the whole reason for the disagreement of most is the simple fact that everybody out there wants to butt into the lives of others
Instead of just minding there own.
The post would have been better off starting. Ladies and gentlemen remember your gun safety.
For the record, I deplore the name 'reaping' and would encourage whomever came up with it to put on a set of brass knuckles and then punch themselves in the balls.
Quote from: mookyj on May 30, 2014, 12:22:01 PM
BC, didn't realize I was getting paid to do this. I would address your comment directly back at you. One can argue things you have stated as dumb, and your tone appears to be personal. Sure enough you can argue that, sure that you will. I am also sure that I cannot get you to see it from my perspective (not that you have to agree), and foolish to try. I do appreciate the criticism about the background on my blog, I changed the translucence from 80 to 90% and it is more readable. That was constructive input, much appreciated.
Your'e welcome.
In regards to the other cause, I respect that you have the opinion. Champion that cause and get to writing letters to state legislatures to get the practice removed if you wish to do so. At the end of the day they are going to ask you if there is any data showing it's dangerous and you are not going to be able to provide that. They are then going to dismiss you.
The only way to get the practice banned is to approach it from the "not fair" or "not ethical" standpoint. Much like shooting turkeys with a rifle. You might get somewhere there, but you have stated multiple times it's about safety and not the "fairness" of it that your argument is predicated on.
If you go with the safety stance you are going to have about as much a chance as a one legged man in an kicking contest. Either way you aren't going to make a lot of friends.
Quote from: mikejd on May 30, 2014, 12:24:53 PM
Funny part about this 5 page post is that apparently very few people actually agreed with the OP's
need to butt in on what other people should or should not do.
Yet I bet not one of the hunters who commented actually participates in this Reaping technique.
the whole reason for the disagreement of most is the simple fact that everybody out there wants to butt into the lives of others
Instead of just minding there own.
The post would have been better off starting. Ladies and gentlemen remember your gun safety.
Mike - I've fanned a couple of birds in over the years and I've put a sneak on a couple using a fan when nothing else was working. I use the tactic on private land only, though caution still needs to be used since we all know 'private' is no guarantee you are the only one there. This method is just one tool in the arsenal, and contrary to the thought that it is unfair or too easy' it does not always work. If it did always work, so too would putting a strutter decoy out, and it doesn't.
Only times I've been seriously scared turkey hunting both involved a truck stopping on the road and sticking a rifle out the window getting ready to take a pot shot at my hen dekes...there was nowhere on either field where I could effectively set up and not be seen from the road. I have since painted hi viz orange splotches on the top panel of my blind.
Quote from: GobbleNut on May 30, 2014, 10:24:27 AM
I don't think Mookyj/Mike should be criticized for his opinion on this, nor should those that have expressed an opposing viewpoint. True, some of the comments on both sides here have digressed to an unsavory level, but the general discussion about the pros and cons of this hunting method, and similar tactics, is good to have.
I completely agree...
I actually thought that such discussions were a large part of the basis of having such a forum.
Anytime new regulations are being considered or should be considered, I tend to be proactive about writing letters/emails and making phone calls, so at the very least my opinion is made known to those responsible for the creation (or not) of such regulation. When regulations are being considered, I would much rather be informed, and have an informed voice in the matter.
Before this thread, I had no idea that such hunting tactics existed... I for one, appreciate an open dialogue and discussion on such topics.
Mookyj/Mike, I would really recommend changing the background on that blog though; as at least on my computer it is impossible to read the text.
.
He'd been calling a gobbler across a field and the gobbler was still out of range when the stalker shot at him, hitting this man with the outside of the pattern, knocking him over. He screamed, raised his head and saw the stalker run off.
Shooting another hunter like this is no accident. Wearing orange would have made him a better target.
Quote from: spaightlabs on May 30, 2014, 12:30:47 PM
For the record, I deplore the name 'reaping' and would encourage whomever came up with it to put on a set of brass knuckles and then punch themselves in the balls.
That's the funniest thing I've heard in quite a while!!! And I totally agree.
Well I was the first one to comment and since I've sat back and watched. I still agree the blog was 95% one the money. Yes turkey hunting and hunting in general is an evolving sport, but the Fanning method is going to get someone killed. Yeah I know it looks cool on all the youtube videos and to be honest I would like to have a Boss Tom charge up to with in 10 feet of me, but something about the whole thing just seems like a step in the wrong direction. I'm not saying it should be illegal as of yet, but I do think it should be restricted to private land only. If its your place then hunt them however you like but don't do things on public land to 1 cause a safety issue, and 2 screw up the hunting for someone else.
Sure wish Mr Cox was around for this one.... :toothy12:
Well, now I'm glad I didn't post my "Turkey Raping" topic. WUT??? :D
(http://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/off-camber-off-topic/799701d1368764558-limited-edition-lays-potato-chips-118976d1301695194-whats-modified-addiction-stuff-i_like_where_this_thread_is_going.jpg)
i would like to know why mookyj was almost shot?
Well this thread did get us talking and I guess thats always a good thing.
Now I did not pay for any subscriptions or request any open records files but I did use GOOGLE.
And out of all the incident stories I have read the number 1 reason for getting shot is a turkey call. Ove rand over its reported that a hunter shot at what sounded like a turkey. Second was movement of the victim.
I did not find any reports as of yet that a victim was wearing the wrong colors or actually looked like a turkey. Most of the shooters all missed the 1st basic gun rule. All reports are from woodland settings and all victims were wearing camo making them hard to distinguish from the vegetation.
While fanning may seem dangerous, I still think the constant movement involved in the technique, the open areas it is used and the awareness of those engaged in the technique makes it pretty safe.
Seems calling from a still position wearing camo, giving another hunter time to stalk you and then making a ill timed movement is the real danger.
No law is going to eliminate any of these problems. Best to focus on gun safety and common sense.
I really don't see where this is a problem. The D***A** people who want to stick a decoy on their head and run around in the woods will eventually all get shot and the unethical people who don't IDENTIFY their target and whats beyond will loose their hunting privileges and not be able to go to the woods anymore. There... problem solved. You can't regulate STUPID!! Be grateful that people have lived and died so that we can get on a public forum and have these discussions. There , now I will get down off my soap box...
Quote from: VaBoy on May 30, 2014, 05:00:32 PM
I really don't see where this is a problem. The D***A** people who want to stick a decoy on their head and run around in the woods will eventually all get shot and the unethical people who don't IDENTIFY their target and whats beyond will loose their hunting privileges and not be able to go to the woods anymore. There... problem solved. You can't regulate STUPID!! Be grateful that people have lived and died so that we can get on a public forum and have these discussions. There , now I will get down off my soap box...
^^^There is a lot of truth to this!^^^
So someone wants to crawl around with a turkey doll on their head and we're supposed to care if they are removed from the gene pool? If it was the middle of turkey season y'all wouldn't even waste time on this topic. If someone wants to play with turkey dollies or even hide out in a camouflage play house and run one around with a remote control; its their business. Enjoy it for the joke it is. I know I do.
O.k., here my two cents...I think it may be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard putting a gobbler decoy on your head or anywhere near yourself. Makes my skin crawl just thinking about it...The gene pool line of thought is probably valid here. The problem, as I see it, is the principle of seeing what you want to see. Haven't we all seen some inantimant object that we swore was a deer/turkey and realized after some study that it wasn't? I had an incident, hunting, as a young boy, that still scares me in regard to misidentification. That said, I don't know that banning the practice of "reaping" is wise for reasons stated by others. I hope to heaven that I never am involved with someone doing this and "want" to see a gobbler enough to see one where it isn't...I know, I know, no excuse, but it is a documented phenomenon seeing what you want to see when in reality it's something that's not...So, here's my solution...Paint the gobblers head blaze orange. Think that would work? I've heard of guys painting a ball blaze orange and using it to attract gobblers...Just a thought...
Here is my .02. I know a few people that have done this with good success. They are not idiots, or poor turkey hunters. If you have seen any of the videos of this you will see that it is done in the wide open in a field. I wont say there is no way they wouldn't get shot at but I highly doubt that that is going to happen. Anything is possible and some hunters have been shot that have no decoys out while turkey hunting. But if it is legal and somebody wants to do it, I say go for it. I'm to old to be crawling around on my hands and knees anymore but why should I tell someone they couldn't do it if they want. Thats like telling someone they can't hunt out of a blind just because I don't like hunting out of a blind. Until there are several people shot at while doing this, which I don't think is going to happen, I say if its not illegal then hunt however you want. But don't tell me I can't do it just because you don't like it. Thats a general statement and not directed towards anyone. Just my opinion.
Joe