A picture to support OG's NO LONG SHOTS

[wmahunter]

I think all you guys get it, but are over thinking what I put up.

My whole point in the thread was to show that a gun that is sighted in dead on, can, due to human error at 40 or longer yardages, cripple birds. Thats it nothing more.

There are basically three ways to "miss" a bird.

1. You don't shoot straight and simply miss him. (not distance related)

2. You shoot straight, have a good pattern, but the shot pellets don't do the job. ie: too small/light weight shot pellets. (distance related)

3. You shoot straight but the pattern is too weak and the bird doesn't get hit with a killing pellet. ie: too far for your choke/pattern. (distance related)

Your example fits into category 1 and is not distance related yet you still are trying to tie it to 40 yds for some reason which I don't understand.   Just leave out the 40 yd part and I can agree with everything else you are saying.

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

IF the thread title were "A picture to support NO SUPER TIGHT PATTERNS" then I could understand, BUT the picture and discussion do not show an issue with "LONG SHOTS". 

I don't agree with long shots either (farther than your gun/load/pattern will cleanly kill) but the picture and story here simply do not support that argument IMO....he has a very good killing pattern in the picture...just off on the POI which has nothing to do with distance.

Hevi, I agree with you that a big dense pattern is better than a small dense pattern however this still has nothing to do with distance....only accuracy.

Having been a benchrest shooter I know all too well about accuracy.  And your correct.  I had a 22 rimfire benchrest gun that would put 5 shots inside this smiley at 50yds in good conditions. 

[Old Gobbler]

Guys , I want take the time to thank all the good members for all the positive pm's , kind words and understanding regarding this controversial issue that on many peoples opinion could alter the image, identity , and sport of turkey hunting as we know it - the outporing of support and understanding even from some of us who are shooting fanatics is very appreciated and we know that the site members understand the reasoning to be of maintaing a immage of great resposibilty to a game bird we all have the greatest respect for

again , we are not telling anyone what to do in thier own free time , just to be very cautions of the impression it portrays of the sport especially to new guys, we are all human and we make mistakes nobody is perfect , things happen and we want to insure a public image of making clean responsible shots in the woods -

I will share with you that last spring ther were several posts where people crippled gobblers at 50 yards , the bottom line is that the gobblers were crippled and probaby died a cruel death , and second they were influenced to try this right here on this site - as a group as a whole we want to promote responsible shooting and avoid the errors that us hunters we all make

thank you again for the support and understanding on this issue-Shannon 

[wmahunter]

 

[Old Gobbler]

This is a good post and had to read again , but shows the necessity of properly set up equipment ,that point true of aim -- some very good points were made starting with the Original Poster on down through the thread 

--Shannon   

[sippy cup]

I think in time these heavier than lead shells is really going to hurt our sport it us to be to see how close you could get a gobbler to come say 20 yards or less when i started 30 years ago it was like that.now withthese fancy loads people don't rely on their calling ability anymore just a kill i wonder how many birds get away because of to long of shots or human error :cahoot:

[joey46]

Somewhere in all these "discussions" on this subject someone hit it on the head when they posted that it seems to be a "generational issue".  After 35+ years of this turkey chasing I still cringe when I read a post describing a long range kill.  For better or worse getting the bird close seems to be inbred in the older hunters.   The rising price of the no-tox is going to take many out of the long range game.  I just hope it doesn't cause a few to pay the big bucks for a 5 round box of super shells but then not pattern them because of the cost.  Most all loads pattern differently.  There is only one way to find out how differently.  Shoot them, even when they cost close to $10 each.  IMO the casual weekender is not going to do this and will be amazed when a turkey gets away after he took a 60 yard shot with a shell he saw advertised in Cabelas spring catalog that implied was good to 75 yards.

[3" 870 Shell Shucker]

Playing Devil's Advocate here:

At a greater distance than what you patterned at, the pattern would open up a little and become a more forgiving "hunting" pattern. 

Your near miss was so critical because your pattern was so tight.  If 40 Yards, plus a little cushion for yardage misjudgement is the maximum range, why not open your pattern up a little and make it more forgiving?

[savduck]

Playing Devil's Advocate here:

At a greater distance than what you patterned at, the pattern would open up a little and become a more forgiving "hunting" pattern. 

Your near miss was so critical because your pattern was so tight.  If 40 Yards, plus a little cushion for yardage misjudgement is the maximum range, why not open your pattern up a little and make it more forgiving?

Thats not the pattern Im going with. Thats a new gun and Im shooting several different chokes to find the right pattern. There is discussion of this earlier in the thread. The picture is just to show how much human error plays when taking a shot.

[Longshanks]

Savduck, I understand what your saying, just a little geometry/physics. The further the distance the greater the error becomes. Super tight patterns are less likely to cover the error down range.

Bottom line.. pulling=missing.

Got a little test for you guys..set up a target at 20yds..put the gun on sand bags or lead sled..move the barrel 2 inches off bullseye. Fire a shot. Do the same thing at 40yds..move the barrel 2 inches..fire a shot. I think you will be surprised at how far off at 40yds you will be by pulling the barrel 2inches.

*if you snatch on the trigger..shooting free hand..hunting situation..pulling the barrel 2 inches is pretty easy to do.
*by the way..I would hunt with that pattern..I would put a red dot on the gun and "rock and roll". But that's just my preference.You may have slightly pulled that one and the turkey is still dead with a 20g @ 40.

[savduck]

Never mind.