Shooting Jakes ??

[NOmad]

Most Jakes don't survive until the second year, and not only that but Jakes do no breeding. If they do, they aren't fertile. So realistically, killing a Jake has zero impact on the population, where as killing a breeding gobbler during breeding season does. I'm not above shooting a Jake, and if he comes in gobbling, he's taking a ride in my truck. I don't discriminate. I get very few days to hunt anymore and it's what I dream about every day, at least once a hour, all year long.

Here is a scenario that is very likely to happen in my life


After working 36 days straight, I get a day off, I have no clue when I might get my next one, I found a piece of public that surprisingly doesn't have 10 trucks at it, I am in god's creation, watching the spring woods wake up, feeling the cold morning air, hearing whipoor wills, and the little birds, a turkey gobbles, on the mountain, I climb 1,300 feet straight up, I respond, he gobbles again, closer, I respond, he goes silent. My heart is in my throat, my palms are sweating, I have no clue how everything can't hear my heart beating, 5 minutes later a red head pops up and he has a 4 or 5" beard, long legs, a Jake. I've played the game, I've won, and I'm pulling the trigger. It makes no difference to me if he has button spurs and a 4" beard or 1 1/2" spurs and a 11" beard. Once I get home, the kids ohh and aww over it a little, we take a picture and then the spurs and beard go in a box with the rest of them. The real trophy was the experience and that fine eating you can't get elsewhere.


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This is actually fals.  The Mississippi study conducted on jake mortality was only 6%.  Effectively 94% of jakes made it to their second year of life.

To add to that, most recently Chamberlain recently released a study where 85% of gobblers in UNHUNTED populations survived annually.

Point being, male turkey mortality is most significantly influence by HUNTING.

How you view success and what you're looking for out of a hunt is certainly your personal prerogative but justifying killing a jake due to low survivability just isn't a thing.

As far as male turkey mortality, it's absolutely no secret that the most are killed by hunting. They have very few predators that will get them other than a hunter. My point is, why is shooting a Jake frowned upon?. You can't manage turkey like deer. You're pissing in the wind to try. You can't stock pile them and you can't expect the turkey you see today to be there next season. As far as a Jake vs a 2 year old gobbler. What is the difference other than 3" of beard and 1/4" of spur?. A two year old is no more wary than a Jake but hunters love em and some how it's more socially acceptable to shoot them?. I'd rather see someone shoot a Jake than reap a gobbler, shoot him at extended range, or decoy one in. But, if it's legal, knock yourself out. I hunt for me, not to be accepted in the "in crowd".


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I just don't see how you can say killing a Jake has NO effect on the population. Yeah, maybe not immediately but the way I look at it is their life can go two directions. 1) They make it to their 2nd year of life and begin breeding or 2) they do not make it to their 2nd year of life and do not begin breeding. When you shoot a Jake, you are guaranteeing that route number 1 never even gets a chance to occur.

[eggshell]

I have a hard time believing the protection of jakes is the salvation of our turkey flocks. In any given flock only a few gobblers do most of the breeding. There's usually a surplus of gobblers. Jakes often out number adult gobblers, but the adults are doing most of the breeding, couldn't you argue your impacting the breeding by removing adults. Just food for thought. If you killed half the jakes in a flock wouldn't there still be enough for future breeding stock? Why limit people's opportunities over something we don't have data to support?

[NOmad]

eggshell - I don't think anyone is necessarily claiming that saving jakes will save the turkey population, but I do think people are saying that killing more turkeys hurts the turkey population. People kill hens in the fall, they aren't breeding then so why does it matter? Because they now have NO chance to breed regardless of if they would have or not during the next breeding cycle. Its a pure probability game. I like a jake having a 6% chance to breed the next year versus a 0% chance when he is killed.

[eggshell]

I agree NOmad, i was only offering food for thought. A discussion primer....

[Tommy Strutsalot]

I do not intend to shoot Jakes but as others have said, I've been fooled twice.  One time was last spring.  It was late morning and I fired one up deep in a wood block and he just came running.  Never strutted but I saw this beard swinging and was certain it was longbeard.  I didn't know until I went to check out his spurs.  Beard was 7.5"



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That sure looks like a Tom to me......

lol, thanks for the affirmation, frankly that's why I wasn't too ashamed to share it and admit I had made a mistake.  It had nubs for spurs and the fan was almost full but not quite - had he strutted I would've known.  I've heard the term super jake before but don't really know what it would mean biologically but I assume it was probably a very late hatch bird and was about to turn 2 in the summer.  The beard, waddles and snood had me fooled.  He also had a commanding gobble - and while that's not a reliable indicator of maturity - it played into my whole perception of the events.


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[g8rvet]

Good question on the super jake age, but I always assumed the opposite, that it was like the earliest hatch of that year and had more growing time.  Never thought of it is a 1.5 year old bird, but like a 11 month bird instead of a 9 month bird.  Anyone know?

An actual biologist on here one time said how much beard might grow based on time, but I don't recall.

[Bottomland OG]

Good question on the super jake age, but I always assumed the opposite, that it was like the earliest hatch of that year and had more growing time.  Never thought of it is a 1.5 year old bird, but like a 11 month bird instead of a 9 month bird.  Anyone know?

An actual biologist on here one time said how much beard might grow based on time, but I don't recall.

I agree with you as it being an early hatch. I recon it could be the other way just an easy tho. As far as how much a beard will grow in a given time might be hard to determine. For example in the fall and winter of 2021 I had a group of 8 Jakes on my farm, beards ranged from probably 5" beards to not even showing, by spring 2022 they all had 3" to 6" beards and a few of them sounded just like a Tom gobbling. Fast forward to spring 23' they  all had 9" to  10" beards.  I'm assuming they were all brothers because they were together all the time. If so their growth spurts hit at different times but they all ended up about equal by almost 2yrs. I don't know this to be facts by any means but I have always felt genetics ,along with Mother Nature has a lot to do with beards and spurs.

[WildTigerTrout]

I killed several jakes when I first started out hunting spring gobblers.  After a couple years I decided to pass them up.  I have not killed one in years and have no intentions of doing so. My answer is no, never.

[PharmHunter]

Never.

[Yoder409]

Good question on the super jake age, but I always assumed the opposite, that it was like the earliest hatch of that year and had more growing time.  Never thought of it is a 1.5 year old bird, but like a 11 month bird instead of a 9 month bird.  Anyone know?

I don't KNOW.  But, I can speculate as well as anyone.   

I get a kick out of the term "super jake".   

But, If I were a guessing man............ I would think a bird with a full tail fan, 6 or 7 inch beard and nubby or maybe 3/8 inch spurs would be a 15 or 16 month old bird that was a very late hatch 2 seasons prior.

I posted here a couple years back about finding peeps that were a few days old on Labor Day weekend.  My theory is that THIS is where these birds are originating.

A buddy of mine calls them "jake and a half".

[Tclipse01]

My first bird was an Osceola jake on my first youth hunt in my teens. It was super exciting at the time and I was just happy to get my first turkey.

I've never harvested another jake and wouldn't consider it at this point.

[eggshell]

Here's my opinion on the super jake. I have killed a lot of fall gobblers that were jakes the previous spring. That makes them around 16-18 months old in my area. They look just like your bird, they average 7-8" beard and slightly more than nub spurs and usually weigh 16 to 17 pounds. My bet is he was a very late hatch from a  second nest during mid to late summer. That would put him in the 18-20 month age group and about that stage. I have seen some small poults in the fall. I would shoot him as a two year old and never look back.