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TSS loading. How components affect the fps and pressure.

Started by Bustabeak, March 17, 2024, 02:14:14 PM

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Bustabeak

I'm sure this is mostly done with studies and testing. But is there any literature or articles out there that explain the cause and effect of what goes into handloads. As in why and how felt, cork, buffer, etc affect the stability of a handload?

I must state I'm in no way trying to start any ammo companies. I just love loading my own and would like to understand it more than just following a recipe.

Alabama556

All I can tell you is I loaded several different  loads in both cheddite and Fiocchi hulls and overall the cheddite hulls showed higher pressure when I got the test results back.

If you fold crimp and then use a gaep crimp finisher (bn3) your pressure will go up considerably as well.


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Bustabeak

Quote from: Alabama556 on March 17, 2024, 04:05:07 PM
All I can tell you is I loaded several different  loads in both cheddite and Fiocchi hulls and overall the cheddite hulls showed higher pressure when I got the test results back.

If you fold crimp and then use a gaep crimp finisher (bn3) your pressure will go up considerably as well.


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Did you have a background in loading? Or did you just load up some shells in hopes to get in  Sammi standards? I guess I'm just wondering too, how all of these ammo companies create their loads. Or, are they mostly replicated would you think?

One reason.... I have a .410 load I've been using. But the shot comes up just short of the shot wad. I've reached out to the creator of the recipe and he's given me a fix, but, I'm genuinely curious how to know what could cause an influx in pressure or if a buffer is better than a wad filler. Etc. to get my shot to the top of the wad. Some buddies says buffer, one says 1/8" cork in the base of the wad the creator of load says something like styrofoam on top of shot. the like you said. Testing is the only way to know I'm guessing..

Alabama556

I would recommend that anybody who loads their own shells have their shells tested. I don't care who you got the load from.

I have been loading shells since I was 12-13 so 35 years. Rifle shells are easier to load because the pressure signs are easier to read in my experience.

I like my shot being below the edge of the wad. That way once I vibrate the buffer in, the shot column is at the edge of the buffer.

If you are not able to get a good crimp because the shot does not fill up the wad you can put a thin felt in the bottom of the wad, use more buffer, or put a felt over the top of the shot.

The only thing I like on top of my shot is a thin cardboard overshot card. That way when I fold crimp no buffer will come out.

I have only loaded 12 and 20 gauge shells so I have no experience with 410's. I just bought some 410 shells because I don't have a 410 loader.

I have no proof that a felt or cork on top of the shot column will hurt patterns but I don't spend a lot of time testing shells. If they come back from the lab with safe pressures,and the pattern is acceptable with a few shells, I go hunting.

The only reason I did a bunch of testing last year was because I was going from a 3 inch 20 to a 2 3/4. For a 1 1/2 ounce load you only need 2 3/4.


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Alabama556

Remember the big ammo companies have all sorts of equipment in house and have a lot of resources available when they are developing loads. They also load on advanced machinery that load consistent shells.


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BandedSpur

I know of no such literature or articles on the subject. There are few absolutes in shotgun load development. In general, I have found the following to be true:

1) Slower burning powders tend to produce lower pressure than faster ones with any given payload.
2) Obviously, increasing the payload will tend to increase pressure.
3) Smaller gauges generate more pressure with a given payload weight than larger gauges. For example, a 1&5/8 oz load in a 20 gauge will generate more pressure than the same payload in a 12 gauge with the same powder.
4) Anything compressible under the shot will tend to lower pressure, whether that is a collapsible section of a wad or adding cork or felt beneath the shot.
5) Increasing velocity tends to increase pressure.
6) Fold crimps generate more pressure than roll crimps.
7) Adding buffer to a load tends to increase pressure vs the same load without buffer.
8) I've been told that the addition of mylar will increase pressure, but I have never verified that through pressure testing.
9) Hull and primer substitution can be a mixed bag. Pressures do not always change in the direction one would think when changing to a hotter primer or to a hull containing a hotter primer.

If I really wanted insight into TSS shotshell development, I would buy some shot from Hal Abbott, aka , and contact him during the off season. I would venture to say that he knows more about TSS load development than anyone else on the planet.

Be safe.

Alabama556

Hal is the man you need to talk with


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chipper

Hal is a good source and another excellent source is Reloader on this forum, he is a wealth of knowledge.
Generally speaking felt and cork under shot will lower pressure. I don't use corks a lot , I do use felts and feel that as well as lowering pressure also effect velocity to a degree.