Should New Jersey Set A Max Spring Gobbler Limit?!

[quavers59]

   In response to - ol timer above. The Problem with New Jersey's current System now is increasing numbers of Spring Hunters are finding out that if you know how to work the System- one can easily buy 20+ Turkey permits.   
       I see no problem  at all  with setting a " Ceiling " Limit on  how many Gobblers 1 Man is Legally  able to Kill. Even if that Max Limit is reduced  to 5 or 3 Gobblers. Most Spring Turkey Hunters would be overjoyed to put the tag on 3 Gobblers in 1 State and then move on to a close by Neighboring State and look to take 2 more Gobblers.
     

[GobbleNut]

NO ABSOLUTELY NOT!! When you let your state or states take way your game limits you'll never get them back, here in NJ they took our Black Bear season away why because we let it happen in many ways.
If you want to take less animals hunting it starts with us the hunters we are the only ones that can control the limits of our wildlife's future. Asking a state to take away something is just plane stupid. If you don't like what limits are set at, don't pull the trigger on what ever steps out in front of you or by less permits. I'd rather see NJ change the shell size from #7 being the smallest to #9 and the use of a 410 these laws we can certainly change and get on board with other states already using such laws.

Respectfully, comparing the outlawing of bear hunting (a societal-perception issue) with sportsmen wanting to have reasonable harvest regulations for wild turkeys is a pretty big leap.  I understand where you are coming from to a degree but, as of now, the general public does not perceive turkey hunting in the same light as they do bears, which are viewed by many to be a somewhat-limited, iconic species, and especially in states or locations with high human densities.  Whether that perception is warranted does not matter.  Outlawing bear hunting there was strictly a matter of wildlife managers and hunters being overwhelmed by an attitude of the non-hunting public that it should be stopped. 

If and when the general population, which in New Jersey probably outnumbers hunters by at least 100 to 1, decides they want to outlaw turkey hunting (or any other game species), I can assure you that it will not be because sportsmen "let it happen".  Until that time, sportsmen need to be policing their own ranks and supporting reasonable restrictions on things like bag limits where they need to be addressed.  In my opinion, quavers59 is right on target in rallying sportsmen to oppose what clearly should be viewed by all responsible sportsmen as being an unreasonable harvest regulation as it related to the bag limit for spring gobbler hunting in New Jersey. 

[Ol timer]

I like to know what working the system means?? Unless your buying tags for a certain zone and hunting a different zone with them permits COs are looking for just that. And as far as comparing the bear shutdown to limits on turkey is similar your telling the state it's ok to take away your right to hunting what others worked hard for us to have now. The numbers of Turkeys harvested in NJ since it started in 1982 have not moved the needle that much in decline look up the numbers!! just as many turkey die from other causes it's not more hunters less turkey in NJ, ask the people in the suburbs how many birds are under there feeders everyday. The sky is not falling.

[quavers59]

ol timer-- obviously  you are referring  to Central + South New Jersey as far as High Turkey numbers. Northren New Jersey- that is not the case.  Very Low Turkey numbers.
   Bluntly  put- it is just not right that 1 Man can Legally Kill almost as many Gobblers as he wants and never leave his home State to do it.
       This practice also keeps a Highly Skilled Spring Turkey Hunter in the Turkey Woods while others lacking Skill and perhaps have not taken 1 Gobbler in 3 Springs probably  won't  with the other Man in the same Woods with him.
   Example being- 3 Weeks have gone by since the Spring Turkey Opener. Mike has killed 8 Gobblers already on 3 Private Land Tracts in 2 different zones because he has the proper permits for those 2 Zones. Now he is on to Public Land the next day and Jack is in the same Public Woods and they hear the same close by Gobbler.
    Who do do think will call that Tom in? Jack with no Gobblers in 4 Springs or Mike - going to Gobbler #9??

[Ol timer]

Well my suggestion is come down to NJ from NY and sit in on a few game commission meetings and tell the biologist how you want a non resident like yourself to make changes to the game laws because you think they set unfair hunting practices. Good Luck with that it's like beating a dead horse get on board with what's here in NJ or don't hunt it. Guys always complain but seldom do anything to help the program all talk. Be a volunteer to see how it really is. I still like to know how working the system is in NJ please tell me.

[Tom007]

I have been hunting NJ since the season opened. I have studied the brood counts, yearly harvests, and participated every spring. I have been retired since 2019, and spend 30 plus days each spring hunting NJ, and NY. The NJ flock is Estimated, (loose term here) to be around 23,000 birds.The yearly harvest is between 2700-3100 birds per year. The best recorded harvest since 2004 was 3454 birds taken in 2006. The last few seasons have shown a decline in gobbling, sightings, sign etc., at least in the Northern parcels that I hunt. Average mean brood size has been declining the past few years, with 2020 having a 2.33 mean brood size which is the 2nd lowest on record since 2004. Keep in mind, mean brood size is very dependent on weather conditions during the window when the poults are born. The harvest in 2021 was 2327 birds, down 523 birds from 2020. This is a little over 18%. The thing that I don't agree with is they changed the check-in procedure a few years ago to phone-in or on-line check in. I enjoyed going to the check stations to have my bird recorded. I realize that it probably has a cost savings incentive behind this, but when it comes to managing a precious resource like our Wild Turkey, cost savings initiatives better not be detrimental to the resource survival. I have had to work a bit harder to harvest NJ gobblers, but in a way it has made me a better hunter. I have to hope that the biologists in charge know how to handle, adjust, and over-all maintain our population. A continued 18%+ decline hopefully will attract attention and measures to halt these declines and put measures in place to regain a steady, healthy population of this great quarry we all love to chase....best of luck to all....

[quavers59]

ol timer-- I don't  have to sit in on any meetings. The right person might read this Thread here.
    By having a fixed Max limit on Gobblers- 5 or 3- in NJ- all Turkey Hunters will benefit.
   

[Ol timer]

Yes last year's numbers went down from the previous year and many factors fall into play there. If you look at the harvesting totals for the northern section of the state those numbers are consistent going back to 2004 so tell me what damage has been done by over harvesting in them zones?? I see more of a decline in the southern sections of the state and again weather and unknowns can change thing from year to year just like deer hunting. As far as the tag in stations closing its set up better now not traveling long distances to find a check station if that person that never tagged a bird legally in then nothing changed.

[quavers59]

ol timer-- without a doubt you are one of the New Jersey Spring Turkey Hunters who buy well over 20 Spring Turkey permits with the object to Kill as many Gobblers as possible.
    Your many quick replys here tell me that.
   Nothing lasts forever- eventually  NJ will do the right thing and set a Max Gobbler Limit of hopefully 5 or 3- which is plenty.

[Ol timer]

 I'd say you have all the answers but none of the right ones. How's this for a start try to be more conservative with the habitat you have in your state and stay out of NJ.

[quavers59]

ol timer-- of course,I will continue  to hunt in New Jersey. I am proposing the right answers- that of NJ setting a Max Spring Gobbler limit. Everyone  in their right mind would agree to that.
   For even 20 Spring Turkey Hunters who take advantage  of this because they have Deep Pockets, and a Whole Month to take as many Gobblers as possible  in 1 Small State- that is just wrong. 1 guy takes 18 Gobblers and his close buddy  takes 12. Even your Peers won't  respect you got that.  What it comes down to Basically + Bluntly is Greed.
   

[Ol timer]

Tell that to your buddy Barney Rubble,  Fred !!

[quavers59]

  Hi Chen...

[TrackeySauresRex]

No Sir Gobblenut- 1 Spring Gobbler is permitted each day. However if that Hunter is succesful on a Monday- that hunter can purchase another turkey permit over the counter " if" more Turkey permits are still available for that " Zone". And this can continue on and on.
  And you can Buy a permit for another Zone as well.
    So yeah- if a hunter is Greedy and has the time and the money- that Spring Hunter can easily buy 15 or more Turkey permits.
  "The System needs to change pronto".

Sounds like it.  How do the rest of your fellow NJ turkey hunters feel about this?  If your opinion is universal among your fellow hunters, the way to affect change is to organize and lobby your DNR to get it done.  (This is one arena where the NWTF clout is a benefit.  If you have a state NWTF chapter, you should contact the leadership and find out where they stand, and if they agree with you, petition the DNR to get things changed)

GobbleNut many of the NJ hunters feel the same. There are guys retired, laid off, contractors that take a month of mornings off as their guys work that kill over a dozen birds a year. I know a fella kills near 20 a year.

Near 20? Wow! That guys pretty good. That's almost 1 a day. The 400 dollars in permits alone. I'm glad I'm not that good. I'd be broke 

I'd rather see NJ change the shell size from #7 being the smallest to #9 and the use of a 410 these laws we can certainly    change and get on board with other states already using such laws.

I definitely understand the shell for your 410.

However,..
Id rather see it go back to lead. Shot no smaller then 6 and no greater then number 4's. Like the way it was. Maybe some will learn how to take an ethical shot instead of shoot at birds at 60 yards.
Jmho..
Good luck to all wishing a safe happy hunting season :^)
Maybe we had a good hatch.

[Bowguy]

No Sir Gobblenut- 1 Spring Gobbler is permitted each day. However if that Hunter is succesful on a Monday- that hunter can purchase another turkey permit over the counter " if" more Turkey permits are still available for that " Zone". And this can continue on and on.
  And you can Buy a permit for another Zone as well.
    So yeah- if a hunter is Greedy and has the time and the money- that Spring Hunter can easily buy 15 or more Turkey permits.
  "The System needs to change pronto".

Sounds like it.  How do the rest of your fellow NJ turkey hunters feel about this?  If your opinion is universal among your fellow hunters, the way to affect change is to organize and lobby your DNR to get it done.  (This is one arena where the NWTF clout is a benefit.  If you have a state NWTF chapter, you should contact the leadership and find out where they stand, and if they agree with you, petition the DNR to get things changed)

GobbleNut many of the NJ hunters feel the same. There are guys retired, laid off, contractors that take a month of mornings off as their guys work that kill over a dozen birds a year. I know a fella kills near 20 a year.

Near 20? Wow! That guys pretty good. That's almost 1 a day. The 400 dollars in permits alone. I'm glad I'm not that good. I'd be broke 

I'd rather see NJ change the shell size from #7 being the smallest to #9 and the use of a 410 these laws we can certainly    change and get on board with other states already using such laws.

I definitely understand the shell for your 410.

However,..
Id rather see it go back to lead. Shot no smaller then 6 and no greater then number 4's. Like the way it was. Maybe some will learn how to take an ethical shot instead of shoot at birds at 60 yards.
Jmho..
Good luck to all wishing a safe happy hunting season :^)
Maybe we had a good hatch.

Gotta tell ya I resent your ignorance quoting me. For one you're inferring I'm a liar. That I'm not. The man kills near 20 very often. Higher teens would be most accurate.  I won't even say every bird is perfectly legal. I don't condone some of the techniques. Also multiple states are involved. Yea it's hundreds and hundreds of dollars in permits. Just because you can't do it or think it's crazy, (I think so as well) doesn't mean it's not a fact. Add out of state licenses for multiple states and even though not every bird perfectly legal the man's tenacity might leave many feeling somewhat part time hunters.