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Author Topic: Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards  (Read 255 times)

Offline reflexl

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Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards
« on: March 07, 2020, 03:20:06 PM »
I am going to get it back out. I finally found a new forend to replace the one busted by recoil. Here is what it is doing now. Yes I adjusted the sights after patterning. It is finally the beast I thought it should be.

Offline 1iagobblergetter

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Re: Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2020, 02:06:44 PM »
Dang thats impressive..I have 2 of the older T/C all camo Encore 12g. muzzleloaders. Makes me want to get one back out.
I have 5lbs of Tss also.. ;D
Do you just use powder,shot cup, and card over top to hold shot in? Just wondering because some guys have different methods.
I'd throw a scope on it and ditch the factory sights.
One shot killing machine then.

Offline reflexl

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Re: Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2020, 08:42:26 AM »
You have to use a protective cup to keep from wrecking your barrel. The Ballistic products OB12 gas seal greatly improved my patterns. I will get you the numbers for the components.

Offline g8rvet

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Re: Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2020, 09:15:11 PM »
That is interesting.  I put a felt wad over my powder on one of my loads, under the cup on both my TK2000 and my TC System1 and saw better patterns on both.  I guess it is functioning like that gas seal. 
Ducks, turkey, redfish.  Who has time for golf?

Offline mtns2hunt

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Re: Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2020, 09:29:08 PM »
I get a similar pattern from my TC encore 20g. But you must be using a 12 to bust off your fore end. That's a lot of recoil. I am currently only using a shot cup with a cork wad, mylar and two felt wads and could not be happier with my patterns. I will have to try and post one on here. As TSS patterns so tight I do use a scope.
Everyone wants to be successful - some just need help.

Offline 1iagobblergetter

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Re: Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2020, 11:44:29 PM »
You have to use a protective cup to keep from wrecking your barrel. The Ballistic products OB12 gas seal greatly improved my patterns. I will get you the numbers for the components.
I'd be glad for any help you would be willing to offer.
I use to just use a 100g. Triple7,Shot cup,6 shot lead,and card on top. That was years ago.
Always was going to try Htl,bought the loose shot but never tried it. Now i have a bunch of Tss. Would be fun tinkering with that,but only if I'm not going to ruin my barrel. Thanks.

Offline joey46

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Re: Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2020, 05:58:26 AM »
I'm playing with a new .410 now but at some time during this turkey season will get the Knight TK out of the safe.  Honestly the recoil was wearing me out but there are still a few muzzleloader only areas I would like to visit.  I gave thought to using bulk TSS in place of the lead but never saw an official answer as to whether the the increased weight would be a safety issue.  A 2 1/2" shot cup filled with TSS will weigh considerable more than the same shot cup filled with lead.  Correct??  Even if ok I'm betting the recoil will increase with TSS.  Eek!  The usual lead may have to do.

Offline 1iagobblergetter

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Re: Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2020, 06:58:20 AM »
I'm playing with a new .410 now but at some time during this turkey season will get the Knight TK out of the safe.  Honestly the recoil was wearing me out but there are still a few muzzleloader only areas I would like to visit.  I gave thought to using bulk TSS in place of the lead but never saw an official answer as to whether the the increased weight would be a safety issue.  A 2 1/2" shot cup filled with TSS will weigh considerable more than the same shot cup filled with lead.  Correct??  Even if ok I'm betting the recoil will increase with TSS.  Eek!  The usual lead may have to do.
To reduce recoil couldn't you try using less powder and a equal amount weight wise or less of Tss that you used in lead shot??

Offline reflexl

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Re: Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2020, 08:54:07 AM »
If you fill the TC cup with TSS it is over 3oz. That would be rough! The 2oz shot and 20 grains of buffer comes right to the top of the shot cup with these wad/ cups. The felt over wad keeps the pattern from looking like a dough nut.

Here is my load that is shooting so well. These are the numbers from my Ballistic Products Invoice
70grs 777 powder in Encore. In TK2000 use 80grs.
2oz TSS
OB12 gas seal                       Item :02012
CSD100 shot cup                   Item :0207100
BSB-ITX Buffer  20 grains       Item :BSB 
Felt Wad 12ga 1/8"                Item :1221812

Clean bore thoroughly between shots. Remove your choke tube. Use a long funnel to keep powder out of your threads.  Add powder. Seat OB12 gas seal on powder firmly but don't beat it to death. Run a patch with bore butter down the barrel.  Some guns will allow you to fill the shot cup then push the full cup down the barrel. This makes it nice because I can see that buffer is distributed equally. If yours won't don't try to shoot with out the buffer. The shot won't be flush with the top of the cup. I have loaded it both ways and found that the patterns are more even if you can load the cup. Seat the felt over the charge. Mop the bore with bore butter after loading. It adds between 50 and 70 fps to your velocity. It also makes cleaning much easier. Reinstall choke tube. Shoot a turkey.

Offline g8rvet

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Re: Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2020, 01:08:10 PM »
Interesting. Bore butter after the powder is seated with the gas seal on top of the charge. Enough times of doing that will just help season the barrel like my griddle top/cast iron pan too.

And you put a felt wad instead of paper or styrofoam. You said " Seat the felt over the charge".  Meaning over the shot cup? I thought about trying that too, but have not yet. Sure would be nice to keep the load in better as once the season gets in, I do not reload until the season is out or I shoot it. 

I am currently using 85 grains powder, felt wad, 3.5" cup, HW #7 (1 5/8) and enough copper plated #5 to fill the rest of the 3.5" cup, topping with styrofoam card. I actually found no buffer worked better for my patterns-but I was not loading it and pushing the full cup down it.  As the wadding is usually found within 5 yards of the target set at 35 yards, does that mean the wad is protecting the barrel against the HW shot? (ie it is carrying it well out of the barrel).  I am very happy with the patterns I am getting, but want to make sure the barrel is not getting too damaged.  The cup is the pre slit 3.5" from K and H. 

Thanks for any thoughts on this.
Ducks, turkey, redfish.  Who has time for golf?

Offline joey46

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Re: Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2020, 12:17:58 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  I started with Knight's recommended  turkey load for their TK and it has done well even with it's notorious recoil.  I am limited in my places to pattern shot but I'll print reflexl's recipe for future reference just in case.  Thanks again.

Offline reflexl

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Re: Encore with #9 TSS at 40 yards
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2020, 08:13:25 AM »
Got a few guns ready. The one burr under my saddle has been the encore 209x 12. These things have a poorly designed fore end. They kick like a mule. Recoil breaks the fore end. Rather than remedy the problem they quit building them. Why bother? With TSS they throw a pattern that reviled any modern turkey gun.

The week link is the ram rod guides. They serve two purposes. First they allow the ram rod to pass through the fore end. Second they provide the point that the for-end attaches to the barrel. It would be easy before finishing to silver solder them to the barrel. Instead they are attached to the barrel with a single 6/48 x .160 screw. After they are shot a few times the screws stretch then get loose. When the gun recoil the surface that contacts the for-end leans a few degrees and breaks the area around the mounting hole.

I removed the paint around the screw hole and cut it to bare metal slightly larger than the rod guides. I sanded the blue finish off of the guides. I cleaned the mounting hole threads with a 6/48 bottom tap. I applied the 24 hour JB Weld to the surfaces then using a new screw that I cut to length I drew them up tight. I then applied a few wraps of electrical tape around them to hold them in place so that the j.b weld wouldn't glue them into the barrel. Once the tape was drawn tight I poke d a hole through the tape and removed the screw. Let set for about 30 hours then installed the screws.

The for-end is now reinforced with steel. JB Welded to the inside over the screw holes. I assembled the mess yesterday and loaded it with TSS. I beat the storm home and shot it at 40 yards this evening. It would have crushed a turkey skull. On another note I found the best choke for this application is a .640" Carlson non ported. While that sounds tight it works well with the muzzle-loader. I tried several chokes and ended up with what I thought was to tight. The pressure in the muzzle-loader is very low . Hopefully this will help the poor next guy.