True POA and POI shotguns don't exist???

[owlhoot]

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I know that from at least a high school kids perspective in the late 1970's that getting the 870 Wingmasters that myself and some friends bought at 187 dollars on sale was a big improvement from the old doubles, singles,savages and mossburgs. Don't remember any Model 21's. lol.
1100 Auto's were out of reach price wise.
From the many 870's I have had since , Wingmasters , SPS or Express. All shot pretty straight, some maybe eyeball, some aimed at the walts to center the pattern.

The model 21 was Winchester’s double shotgun lol?

 I know that lol. Sure as heck don't remember any 21's in anyone's hands i knew. Us poor ole Missouri boys must have missed out , glad you La boys didn't have too.

[LaLongbeard]

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I know that from at least a high school kids perspective in the late 1970's that getting the 870 Wingmasters that myself and some friends bought at 187 dollars on sale was a big improvement from the old doubles, singles,savages and mossburgs. Don't remember any Model 21's. lol.
1100 Auto's were out of reach price wise.
From the many 870's I have had since , Wingmasters , SPS or Express. All shot pretty straight, some maybe eyeball, some aimed at the walts to center the pattern.

The model 21 was Winchester’s double shotgun lol?

 I know that lol. Sure as heck don't remember any 21's in anyone's hands i knew. Us poor ole Missouri boys must have missed out , glad you La boys didn't have too.

No I never owned a 21 either. My uncle knew an old man that had one but he had money to burn. The point I was making is the other guy said people gave up the double for a pump because it was an advancement. I  say that’s stupid...the reason people switched to a pump was because a good double costs more than most peoples houses. It has zero to do with steel shot or advancement in gun technologies. Just like the plastic shotguns sold today are not in anyway an advancement over the Wingmaster of the 1950’s-1970’s. The thing is most people have never shot a good double or a well made pump for that matter. So the crooked shooting guns of today seem normal to the uninformed.
     That pretty much applies to anything sold today trucks, appliances you name it there all disposable junk that costs several times more than the older stuff did and lasts a fraction of the time and the quality is not close.

[owlhoot]

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I know that from at least a high school kids perspective in the late 1970's that getting the 870 Wingmasters that myself and some friends bought at 187 dollars on sale was a big improvement from the old doubles, singles,savages and mossburgs. Don't remember any Model 21's. lol.
1100 Auto's were out of reach price wise.
From the many 870's I have had since , Wingmasters , SPS or Express. All shot pretty straight, some maybe eyeball, some aimed at the walts to center the pattern.

 
The model 21 was Winchester’s double shotgun lol?

 I know that lol. Sure as heck don't remember any 21's in anyone's hands i knew. Us poor ole Missouri boys must have missed out , glad you La boys didn't have too.

No I never owned a 21 either. My uncle knew an old man that had one but he had money to burn. The point I was making is the other guy said people gave up the double for a pump because it was an advancement. I  say that’s stupid...the reason people switched to a pump was because a good double costs more than most peoples houses. It has zero to do with steel shot or advancement in gun technologies. Just like the plastic shotguns sold today are not in anyway an advancement over the Wingmaster of the 1950’s-1970’s. The thing is most people have never shot a good double or a well made pump for that matter. So the crooked shooting guns of today seem normal to the uninformed.
     That pretty much applies to anything sold today trucks, appliances you name it there all disposable junk that costs several times more than the older stuff did and lasts a fraction of the time and the quality is not close.

I certainly agree with everything said about the junk made today. You can't trust guns, appliances , auto parts etc.
Now the steel shot part . I have seen a lot of SXS shotguns and even old models 12's and others replaced with 870 wing masters. This was during the first years steel shot became Mandatory. See back then nobody wanted to ruin their barrels. Guns were put up, waterfowl blinds and leases given up. Many old doubles had 2 3/4" chambers as did many pumps and autos too. The only advancement I could see was a 3 inch chamber and newer barrel steel for this new shot and loads. 3 shots was nice too , you needed it with those old steel loads. This certainly got the ball rolling with new pumps and autos especially for the price.
The upland hunters were sure smiling as lots of nice doubles were sold for cheap prices.   

[Sheetrock]

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I use a versa max that I bought for turkey hunting it's very soft shooting but I had to raise the comb a 1/2 inch because I shot very low and then put a reflex sight on it because I  hard time lining beads up having never shot with a raised rib and  2 beads before this gun

[owlhoot]

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I use a versa max that I bought for turkey hunting it's very soft shooting but I had to raise the comb a 1/2 inch because I shot very low and then put a reflex sight on it because I  hard time lining beads up having never shot with a raised rib and  2 beads before this gun

Pretty much standard operating procedure these days. Get it dialed in and your good.

[THattaway]

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I use a versa max that I bought for turkey hunting it's very soft shooting but I had to raise the comb a 1/2 inch because I shot very low and then put a reflex sight on it because I  hard time lining beads up having never shot with a raised rib and  2 beads before this gun

Pretty much standard operating procedure these days. Get it dialed in and your good.

And that's a dang shame. Surely the mechanics of making a shotgun shoot beads hasn't changed.

[mater]

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Ithaca Model 37...

Very true bore...

Correct me if I am wrong (which happens a lot) but, aren't Ithaca's receivers and barrels one piece? I have always wanted to get my hands on a turkeyslayer model. No one I know has ever had or even seen one unfortunately.

One piece

Mines not, well the barrel is one piece and the receiver is one piece

[mike103]

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This has been covered on shotgunworld and other shotgun specific sites.

If your shotgun is shooting 3’ high send it back. Even 18” is not acceptable to me.

Many SBE3 have been sent back and Benelli has made some sort or adjustment, shims can help, but 18” is way too high.

I have owned over 40 shotguns in my lifetime. Including Mossberg, Remington, Winchester, Ithaca, beretta, Krieghoff and Perazzi. And probably some I forgot. And never never did I have a gun that patterned 18” high.

[KPT95]

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Just bought a brand new Remington 870 Express with just a simple bead that shoots about 6” high at 40 and dead on at 15 with LB 3” #6s. Perfect for me. First 870 ever owned and I love it.


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[the Ward]

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My son has an sbe3. I have a Vinci. Any gun with a ramped rib will shoot high if you aim it like a rifle. Lot of nonsense spread around about the sbe3 over on shotgun world, usually by one guy, who quite frankly, bends facts to fit his opinions.I have heard some reports of the early production guns had the mag tubes/ barrel rings slightly canted, but cannot verify. A 6" difference in any direction with the center of a 30" wide pattern doesn't matter in real world wingshooting, but a super tight 10" pattern for turkey hunting it does. So if you have a ramped rib on your gun, it will probably need some sort of sights. I have my gun shimmed and an easy hit 3mm front bead and it shoots close to dead on with a couple chokes and loads, slightly high. But i usually use an optic on it. Gun fit is important, you can have a gun that shoots dead on for one guy, and it will shoot high/low/left/right for another guy. Since your eye is the rear sight when using a bead, and we are all built a little different,not everyone is going to have the same poi/poa. I think Remington came the closest with the 870/1100 on fitting the most people the best.

[gobbler74]

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Well it's a shotgun, not a rifle.. if you are beads only protect that barrel on new models from sliding off a tree or dropping them.

[Longshanks]

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Beretta’s are mainly the gun I use. All of them I have had the POA/POI is fine with all of the factory chokes. The problem comes about when putting an aftermarket turkey choke in the gun and shooting heavy turkey loads.