Box Call Questions

[Grouperdawg]

Hi...I'm trying to build some box calls for friends and personal use and have a few questions if anyone is willing to help on any of them.  I'm almost done with my second I'll post a pic tomorrow, the first one ended up being scrapped. These are cost style boxes, the second sounds ok but tough to play.

1)How does paddle size effect tuning?
2)How does paddle arch effect tuning?
3)How does box arch effect tuning?
4)How does depth of channel or width effect tone?

It also seems like if I try to get the sound lower on the back end it only goes so far with taking away sound board and then starts sounding like a seal but never gets that low in tone.

Thx for any help

[Grouperdawg]

Finished a call and gave it to friend,  drew a pic of his son when he was younger with my dog on point with the wood burner.  It was his boys first hunt and a special day for both he and my dog.

Sounds like crap;  it talks some turkey but just not great.  Will keep trying,  if anyone would help on any of the above questions would hugely appreciate it.  I believe I may have put too much arch on the box,  I am at almost 1/4 ".  I possibly built the box too narrow,  it's just under 1" at the bottom base.  It's too high pitched after the rollover but if I keep taking away wood it starts to sound like a seal instead of a turkey.  I can't seem to get the lower/deeper pitch.  It's walnut top & mahogany bo btw.

[TripleGobbleCalls]

That's a good looking call Grouperdawg. Just wanted to help you out with your questions. What I usually do for my paddle size is I usually plane the thickness of my paddle to 3/8". This give you a nice heavy paddle and you don't have to put much pressure on the handle to make a sound. This is something that you will need to find the curve that you like best. Your paddle in the picture looks pretty good, stick with that size.

The arch however is the most crucial part of the paddle. You want to make sure that the bottom of your paddle is perfectly round. If there are any flat spots on your paddle, it will hinder the sound of the call greatly. Something to keep in mind when making a box call is that you want the grain of your paddle to be opposite of the grain of the box. So if your box grain is running length ways, you want your paddle grain to be running perpendicular to your box grain.

Also, the curve on the box is equally as important as the paddle. Too much curve, you won't have enough scratching surface to make a sound, too little and you'll have to much surface hitting your paddle. I usually make the ends of my wall 3/8" lower than the highest point of the arch on your box. I usually start with a 2" square piece and the max height of my arch is 1 3/4" and the ends are 1 5/16", which gives me my 3/8" difference.

Keep this in mind when making your channel, the less wood that is in the box, the more your sound changes. This is a trial and error process. Also, I like thin walls, so I usually make my walls about 3/16" and then sand them down from there and test it until I get the sound I am looking for. I hope this helps you out and good luck!! Let me know how you make out.

[Grouperdawg]

Thx a ton for that info, really appreciate the explanation too,  that's really helpful.  I had read that the arch on each was important but had no idea why now it makes sense. I've got a cedar box I'm almost finished with the box part I'm going to redraw a line take a  little off to get to 3/8" with the belt sander.  My next plan was to try to make four of five paddles so I have a few to try out.  Hopefully have something done end of next week,  thanks again for the help!!

[Grouperdawg]

Also going to take a closer look at the paddles too

[TripleGobbleCalls]

  Not a problem. If you have any other questions, I'll be happy to help!

[M Sharpe]

A friend of mine bought a box call from a well known call maker one time, then later decided he wanted to start making them. He called the maker and asked him a few questions. The call maker told him that every thing he knew about building box calls was right there in that box. So, if you've got one that you like, you've already got part of the answer. The real fun comes when you start tuning. I'm no box call maker, but I've spent enough time around my buddy to know that no two are alike because of the wood grain. What you did to one may not be the answer to the next one. My hat is off to box call makers.  When you stroke that paddle across the sound boards, turn it over and look for the angle wings on the paddle. Are they even??? You can really shorten the learning curve by getting with a good call maker and spending some quality time with him; however, the one thing he can't give you is an ear for 'turkey".

[wscrst]

I will be starting work on my first homemade call soon.  This is all very, very helpful.  Thank you.

[mastevt]

I'm no box call builder, but I want to take my hat off for TrippleGobbleCalls for opening up and helping!!  I help out to whoever asks me on pots, and its nice to read that someone else gives freely as I have done.  There are a lot of builders out there that won't share what they know, and in my honest opinion, that only hinders the next generation of call builders who want to carry on the tradition and love of building calls.   Thank You TrippleGobbleCalls!

[TripleGobbleCalls]

I'm no box call builder, but I want to take my hat off for TrippleGobbleCalls for opening up and helping!!  I help out to whoever asks me on pots, and its nice to read that someone else gives freely as I have done.  There are a lot of builders out there that won't share what they know, and in my honest opinion, that only hinders the next generation of call builders who want to carry on the tradition and love of building calls.   Thank You TrippleGobbleCalls!

Thank you for the very kind words mastevt. I know that I have questions all the time that I need answers for and I know how it feels to have no one help you out, so I make it my personal mission to not let that happen to someone when I can help

[Grouperdawg]

Well I'm on call number three,  not going very well : o

They look fantastic but I'm failing at the tuning process,  I'm trying to get it to go from clean high to low rasp and it just isn't happening.  I think I could have good success making goose calls bc it goes from high to higher.  I take away wood from the walls of the call towards the back but it doesn't get any lower in tone not sure why seems to be the opposite. Looking at the paddle and moving it slow it seems like it gets higher in pitch as it moves across closer towards the sides/edge of the paddle.

I own just one good box call but it is a production Woodhaven real hen and not a cost style like I am trying to build. I did try to mimic the real hen with equally bad results on call two.    I do have a cost style on order from a call maker and if I can make it to Nashville I'll try to find one there. I got the real hen a while back and it sounds so good I never picked up any other boxes. Plus when  I hunt I mostly use mouth call being fortunate enough to have been mentored on a diaphragm from a champion caller and running them pretty good. But I would love to be able build some good boxes to give to good friends and kill some birds with my own call would be really gratifying.

[TRKYHTR]

I have Neil Costs book on a 2 sided short box and his video he made for the NWTF Georgia state chapter. That will give you all the dimensions you are looking for. As far as tuning it's going to be a learning experience. The front of the box will have thicker rails near the bottom inside the call. That will give you your high front end. You will get your yawk and rasp out of the last 1/3 of the box. Try tuning the box from the inside bottom of the call and not so much the top of the rails. Another thing that will affect the sound is the depths of your checkering. With deep checkering you wont have to take to much out of the inside of the call. Without checkering the side rails your walls will be much thinner. Good luck, hope this helps and hope you figure it out.

Joe

[Grouperdawg]

Yes that helps, Thx much, I was removing wood from the walls pretty equally especially on the first call.

On mine you can visablly see the top rails are much thinner towards the back of the call. It sounds like the top of the rails should be pretty consistent the entire call. Do you kind of split the call in 1/3rds or do you have a consistent tapering from front to back (thicker to thin) in the bottom inside of the call?

I'm also going to check the size of my paddles, another forum member helped with that and how size and weight of paddle effects tone. It's possible my paddles are too thin.

I emailed the girl from the ga NWTF for the Cost video but never heard back.  I googled and fond the books so I'll order the chapter on making box calls. 

[Brantley]

Its hard to say without holding the box in hand but I'll tell you what I do. I use a variable speed palm router to remove waste from the box's soundboards. The thinner the side, the higher the pitch. My soundboards are thicker at the bottom. I generally leave 1/8 at the top and fine tune with a four in one file and sandpaper. Mr. Sharpe's comment about utilizing a box call you own and like are spot on. As far as the paddle, I use 1/4 or 5/8 stock and I scribe a 2" 7/16 radius on it. I also use a spokeshave to rough out the paddle radius and then run through the grits of sandpaper to smooth it out. Ive heard of some people tapering the top thickness of the walls to get a better two note break. Thinner at the pivot side and gradually thickening towards the other end. I dont do it that way. If your radii are correct on the box and lid, it isn't necessary. Play around with the box radius until you get what you want. Again, somewhere near 1/8 is sufficient but play around with it. If these are your first box calls, they'll only get better the more of em you build. A lot of people are tight lipped about call building. Im not sure why. If Neil Cost hadn't published The Gobbler Shop, we'd all be running around with significantly lighter vests this spring. Play around with it and let me know how it turns out.

[Grouperdawg]

That's some great info Brantley, Thx, funny about the Cost thing.

I got his book excerpt and one dimension I think I was missing was how deep he made the calls.

I also picked up a few box calls from a very good call maker in the Cost style.  One thing I noticed is my rails on the sound boars were much thicker at the very front and very back of the chamber beng harder to take wood away there he uses a chisel.

So, I used a knife and got that better and those two changes seemed to make a big difference in my last call which was mahogany over cedar. It sounded really nice on one side anyway.

Then tried a butternut and I bought a vise with angle adjustment for my drill press.  It worked good but as I drilled it out and the walls got thinner when I put it in the vise I deint realize the sides were bending. 

I started five more calls and made a jig for a two way cross vise, I think it's going to work well.