PA Hunters

[Frankinthelaurels]

CUTT...gobbling during the season can be affecting and effected by a lot of things.. HUNTING PRESSURE is number 1 in my opinion, day after day chasing of the same couple of birds can stop gobbling completely...I've seen this many times over the last almost 50 seasons of chasing them. I also think but I have scientific evidence to prove it but ambushing...killing without calling stops gobbling in an area also...if a turkey gobbles while he is walking around and you have enough hunters after him the chances are he will die without being called to or by someone who sneaks in while someone else is calling, I call this ambushing, the survivors or birds that have been around the dead bird alled to or not just seem to shut up after that..they still walk around but Zip the lip...also birds that are with a gobbler that has been killed have a tendency to shut up for a few days after their buddy checks out. I also think the gobblers that talk a lot eventually get killed and their genetics may not get passed on, silent gobblers stand a better chance of living longer therefore spreading their genes. I've hunted in 17 different states and overall find gobblers north of the mason-dixon line gobble a lot more than those in the south, if you think it's quiet here take a trip south and you'll be shocked at the amount of gobbling you here, especially on open or public grounds. I've found that northern turkey gobble a lots more, lots!

[tomstopper]

we should be huntin now!!!!!!!!!!!! we are way way to late
we keep on gettin to warm to quick
they need to change this b.s.

I am a NY hunter and our season dont begin til May 1st. I feel your pain.

[dpittman]

Correct me if I am wrong but gobbling is an instinct inherent in their breeding process. If they do not gobble their chances to breed go down because perhaps the hen can't find birds that are not gobbling. One I area I hunt gets a lot of pressure because it is public land but there are birds there out the gazoo and they gobble like mad. I think the explosion in turkey numbers has more to do with the gobbling and not so much pressure. A couple of tree gobbles and then here comes the hens. These are my opinions and may be completely wrong.

[Cutt]

Correct me if I am wrong but gobbling is an instinct inherent in their breeding process. If they do not gobble their chances to breed go down because perhaps the hen can't find birds that are not gobbling. One I area I hunt gets a lot of pressure because it is public land but there are birds there out the gazoo and they gobble like mad. I think the explosion in turkey numbers has more to do with the gobbling and not so much pressure. A couple of tree gobbles and then here comes the hens. These are my opinions and may be completely wrong.

True in a sense, but gobbling just in general without other influences like pressure, etc. can vary, with the amount of available hens, breeding phase, and age structure of Toms. If hens are nearby Toms don't even have to gobble to attract them, as spitting and drumming is enough. Although it can't be heard that well by human ear, turkey's can hear it much farther. Times where birds will gobble a lot, are times they are not in close proximity of hens, as a better way of letting them know his where abouts, when drumming might not be heard? As you know with hunting, any lone gobbler or gobblers without hens around will typically gobble more. As where toms roosted right with hens might gobble a bit, or not at all, and do all drumming? So they really don't have to gobble, just to breed.

Another influence can be a Mature Tom in the area that keeps other Toms tight lipped in fear of getting whipped by him? Kill this mature Tom, and an area that did not have much gobbling can really light up now that the Bullie is gone.

[Cutt]

CUTT...gobbling during the season can be affecting and effected by a lot of things.. HUNTING PRESSURE is number 1 in my opinion, day after day chasing of the same couple of birds can stop gobbling completely...I've seen this many times over the last almost 50 seasons of chasing them. I also think but I have scientific evidence to prove it but ambushing...killing without calling stops gobbling in an area also...if a turkey gobbles while he is walking around and you have enough hunters after him the chances are he will die without being called to or by someone who sneaks in while someone else is calling, I call this ambushing, the survivors or birds that have been around the dead bird alled to or not just seem to shut up after that..they still walk around but Zip the lip...also birds that are with a gobbler that has been killed have a tendency to shut up for a few days after their buddy checks out. I also think the gobblers that talk a lot eventually get killed and their genetics may not get passed on, silent gobblers stand a better chance of living longer therefore spreading their genes. I've hunted in 17 different states and overall find gobblers north of the mason-dixon line gobble a lot more than those in the south, if you think it's quiet here take a trip south and you'll be shocked at the amount of gobbling you here, especially on open or public grounds. I've found that northern turkey gobble a lots more, lots!

Some good points there, I've also read where many say and as you stated "We are shooting the Gobble out of them" Genetically like you stated, we are killing all the loud mouths, leaving birds that typically do not gobble as much, to only pass this trait on? Who knows? 100 years from now, they might not even gobble anymore? But we won't have to worry about that?

And I can only speak for this area in PA and west some in Ohio, as the gobbling each year seems to diminish somewhat? As for how much they gobble here as compared to the South, I wouldn't know? I wonder if guys in the South who have hunted for many years, feel the amount of gobbling heard each Season has diminished from when they first started also?

I have a good Friend who has hunted Turkeys in this area approx. twice as long as I have, and he says the same thing. Not that the amount of decreased gobbling is that noticeable from year to year. But collectively from his start to nowadays, he see's a big difference and a change throughout his turkey hunting time. Like he said there was a time he could go in the woods years ago, numerous times during the Season and hear 4 -5 gobblers, and wouldn't know which one to go after? And now he says he very seldom runs into this situation nowadays, and hears much less also.

[jakebird]

There's a lot we have to keep in mind as far as turkey seasons go. Turkeys are a totally difft. creature than deer. We don't hunt to control their numbers. Unlike deer, they experience high enough natural mortality and predation that hunting is not needed as a management tool. In contrast, our turkey seasons are designed similar to other small game seasons, wherein seasons and bag limits are designed to give hunters maximum opportunity to enjoy the resource WITHOUT impacting populations. I read a comment in an earlier post about needing higher hen harvest in the fall to balance sex ratios, but that just isn't the case. Let's think about this for a minute or two. Lets say you hunt a 500 acre piece of property. It has approx 75 birds on it. you and your three buddies who hunt it with you decide to gun for some hens in the fall because of the reasons you mentioned, and all four of you succeed. Congrats. Now the next spring, instead of having 40 hens to contend with, you have 36. Did that really benefit you, help even your odds with working a gobbler? Not really. But let's look at what did happen as a result. There are four fewer adult hens that will be nesting this spring. Each one could potentially hatch and recruit a dozen poults to the fall if conditions are good. Nature skewers turkey sex ratios slightly toward males due to higher natural mortality of males, so lets assume each hen would have recruited seven gobblers and five hens. You and your buddies just eliminated 28 potential gobblers from your local flock through the elimination of four hens that basically accomplished nothing towards improving odds of finding a gobbler without hens to contend with. No real good was possibly accomplished other than a prime fall turkey dinner, of course . Natural mortality rates are already very high and nesting hens have to overcome enormous odds including weather and predation in order to recruit their young each year. I simply see no need to make it more difficult by targeting hens. The plus side of having tons of hens is it means tons of nests, tons of poults, and tons of gobblers being recruited every year. The properties I hunt the most havent' seen what I would refer to as a poor hatch in over four years. Each year there seems to be TONS of jakes. We let them walk for the most part and it means every year after there are tons of two yr olds. We gladly kill a few of them of course, and a few older birds when we get lucky, the reason is a high turkey population...lots of hens. Hens are the breeding machines that keep your turkey pop on the rise. Why kill the machine? If you have that many hens, be grateful. They are hatching you plenty of new gobblers every year. What is most likely is that there are a ton of silent birds, subdominant toms that you rarely see or hear while the bosses are around, but trust me they are there. Approx 1.5 gobblers per hen is more or less the birth ratio, like I said, to offset higher natural mortality, but assume at the start of the season in spring that your ratio is probably very close to 1:1. Hunter harvest aside, usually doesn't even come close to what is being lost to predation. Let me check some numbers, but I believe recent PA spring harvests are hovering around 45-50, 000. This from a population over a half million birds. That's not even a dent, and turkey numbers are still rising and sharply in some areas. Trust me, we're not killing all the toms and allowing hen numbers to get that far out of whack.. It just seems that way when the bosses are doing most of the breeding and the losers are playing shy and silent. If this warm, early spring trends toward dry, we'll be in for another bumper hatch again, too!  My advice, for what it's worth: Don't shoot the hens in the fall, atleast for that reason. It's self defeating.

[Fullfan]

We all have to remember that it is not all about killing a gobbler... Take the season for what it is going to be, because there is nothing we can do about it. When it rolls around just get out and enjoy..

[clarksvalley]

We all have to remember that it is not all about killing a gobbler... Take the season for what it is going to be, because there is nothing we can do about it. When it rolls around just get out and enjoy..

thats a good point.sure i wish our season would start about two weeks ealier, doesn`t help any seeing all those southern
boys with their pictures and stories of birds hitting the dirt.and we still have a month and half to go,guess that why i like to hit out west
or the mid west to get a earleir start,and come home and have the whole month of may to hunt.but i believe we are going to have to break
the spring green camo out pretty early this year,looks like the foliage will be pretty far along once the season starts.

[M,Yingling]

The only thing about this warm weather that worries me in the green up early ,,I hunt some thick areas

[clarksvalley]

The only thing about this warm weather that worries me in the green up early ,,I hunt some thick areas

same here once those huckleberry bushes start to grow up it gets tough.seems like those old gobblers know how to use them to
there advantage.

[Cutt]

We all have to remember that it is not all about killing a gobbler... Take the season for what it is going to be, because there is nothing we can do about it. When it rolls around just get out and enjoy..

Very true, but to me, it's all about hearing them. Just something about hearing them gobble, that keeps me going back? A good day to me, is hearing them and getting to mess with them, even if I don't kill one?

I know there are hard core Turkey hunters that would hunt them even if they never gobbled? Hypothetically speaking, if birds were to quit gobbling today, I'd probably quit hunting them today?I know there's more to hunting them even if they don't gobble, and I still hunt them on them gobbless days. But I go, knowing even if they don't gobble as much, I still have a chance of hearing them? As having them gobble less might not be a bad thing, as it makes me hunt harder just to hear one? But boy I love to hear them, and just wish I could hear them like I use to, and that would be just that many more better days in the woods.

[Fullfan]

We all have to remember that it is not all about killing a gobbler... Take the season for what it is going to be, because there is nothing we can do about it. When it rolls around just get out and enjoy..

Very true, but to me, it's all about hearing them. Just something about hearing them gobble, that keeps me going back? A good day to me, is hearing them and getting to mess with them, even if I don't kill one?

I know there are hard core Turkey hunters that would hunt them even if they never gobbled? Hypothetically speaking, if birds were to quit gobbling today, I'd probably quit hunting them today?I know there's more to hunting them even if they don't gobble, and I still hunt them on them gobbless days. But I go, knowing even if they don't gobble as much, I still have a chance of hearing them? As having them gobble less might not be a bad thing, as it makes me hunt harder just to hear one? But boy I love to hear them, and just wish I could hear them like I use to, and that would be just that many more better days in the woods.

No doubt on the hearing them thing, I once had a ol timer tell me " Son you don't hear a turkey gobble, you feel it"   

How true...

[Cutt]

No doubt on the hearing them thing, I once had a ol timer tell me " Son you don't hear a turkey gobble, you feel it"   

How true...

Nothing like having one sneak in behind you and letting loose! My God! the hair on the back of my neck stands straight up!

[paboxcall]

No doubt on the hearing them thing, I once had a ol timer tell me " Son you don't hear a turkey gobble, you feel it"   

How true...

Nothing like having one sneak in behind you and letting loose! My God! the hair on the back of my neck stands straight up!

Except, maybe....being pinned down at ten steps by a gobbler that came in quiet and poked his head up over a log to check you out, only to having two more sneak in behind you nice and quiet, and start thrashing and fighting in the leaves about 8 steps from your set up.

All that makes for some very bad nerves....