Turkey Population Decline?

[redleg06]

Very good replies on here...

I think the nest predator population is a big reason."Various studies indicate 10 to 40 percent of nests successfully hatch"....  If 60-90% of your turkey never make it out of the egg, that's where I'd start looking for a solution.

As someone mentioned above, trapping and coon-hunting was much more popular 30-40 years ago than it is today...coincidentally (note the sarcasm) that's also about the time you saw turkey populations start to boom around the country.  Yes, there are a number of factors that contribute but I'd start with the common sense-  the more predators you have, the more prey species are going to be consumed.

I also agree that there are regulations that could help -  back the season up a week or two so that a higher percentage of the hens get bred before hunters start harassing them.  Dont shoot jakes - it's hard for a turkey to go from an egg, to a poult, to a jake, to a mature/breeding gobbler... the more of them that reach two years old, the more hen's that are likely to be bred in the future. 

Also, gobblenut's post about increasing the "turkey bank" and transplanting makes a lot of sense... Hell, we have a post on the forum right now about folks up in the NE having to defend themselves from Turkey attacks... Move those sucker's to the area's where populations are down and it's a win win!

[Ihuntoldschool]

Timber Harvest in the Southeastern US.

Disease plays of role of course, not much diversity in the gene pool in many areas.

[trkehunr93]

I know it's been said but listen to Dr. Michael Chamberlain, he references research conducted by Billy Healey in the 70's-80's.  Dr. Healey was advising later season start dates decades ago, fortunately northeastern states heeded his advice and aren't seeing the declines the southeastern part of the US is seeing.  Kinda eye opening when he talks about how long it takes for pecking order to be reestablished once the dominant gobbler is removed.  The wild turkey is the only game bird outside of the sooty grouse that's hunted during it's breeding season, as far as I know.  We may have to come to terms with season structure changes, starting later in April or beginning of May.  I know this will be a difficult pill to swallow for some but if it benefits turkey populations as a whole then I'm all for it.  Also we as turkey hunters can spend about $15-$20 bucks on dog proof foot traps and help reduce nest predators where we hunt.  I for one get regular pics of racoons in my area and plan to set out a few, trapping is a dying art and we need to do all we can to keep coons, possums, skunks, etc in check. 

[Turkeytider]

I know it's been said but listen to Dr. Michael Chamberlain, he references research conducted by Billy Healey in the 70's-80's.  Dr. Healey was advising later season start dates decades ago, fortunately northeastern states heeded his advice and aren't seeing the declines the southeastern part of the US is seeing.  Kinda eye opening when he talks about how long it takes for pecking order to be reestablished once the dominant gobbler is removed.  The wild turkey is the only game bird outside of the sooty grouse that's hunted during it's breeding season, as far as I know.  We may have to come to terms with season structure changes, starting later in April or beginning of May.  I know this will be a difficult pill to swallow for some but if it benefits turkey populations as a whole then I'm all for it.  Also we as turkey hunters can spend about $15-$20 bucks on dog proof foot traps and help reduce nest predators where we hunt.  I for one get regular pics of racoons in my area and plan to set out a few, trapping is a dying art and we need to do all we can to keep coons, possums, skunks, etc in check.

If the web traffic is any indication, here in Georgia it looks like the predominant opinion is either " There`s no problem with turkey populations and all you nit wits that talk about changing the season dates are a bunch of whiney babies" or " Catch all the predators ."  It`s interesting how science and what it tells us is fine.......until I`m personally inconvenienced by it. Advocating any change in season starting date will get you roasted.

[Meleagris gallopavo]

In SE Virginia and NE North Carolina they are thick!   We have a lot of hens per tom/jake, which some folks around here indicate is an issue in itself.  We have a good many coyotes, bobcats, bears and raccoons as well, but we generally kill as many of all of them (except maybe raccoons) as we can or as the season allows.  Lots of folks turkey hunting too.  Hard to find a place to hunt that somebody isn't already hunting.  We have our fair share of poachers too.  I really don't have an answer to the success of the turkey here.  I do know that the wildlife services began a repopulation program 25-30 years ago.  I know we didn't have any turkeys until the mid-late nineties and I didn't see one until my late 20's (I was born in 1967).  Folks would go around making fake turkey tracks so they could hear people get excited and tell about them.

[nativeks]

Ive been trapping to help the ground nesting birds. Ive caught 2 racoons so far. One of them was a giant. I couldn't even give him to a furbuyer. Thats why nobody is trapping.

[avidnwoutdoorsman]

There are a number of possible reasons for declining turkey numbers in regions of the country,...most of which have been listed above by others. What we need are viable solutions, one of which I will propose here:

Turkey populations (or wildlife populations, in general) can reach the point where there are so few of them that they cannot sustain themselves.  Without "assistance" they will eventually disappear.  I would propose that wildlife managers across the country establish "turkey banks". 

What do I mean by that?  Well, there are plenty of places around the country where there are too many turkeys.  That is, there are "nuisance" populations of turkeys that people want to get rid of.  Why not start a "turkey bank" program of taking turkeys from these nuisance populations and putting them in places where populations have plummeted?

Yes, I realize this is exactly how many of our existing turkey populations in parts of the country got established a few decades ago.  The question is, why have we abandoned the "trap and transplant" philosophy that worked so well back then? 

Turkeys have a very high "reproductive potential".  That is, given a good year or two of hatches and poult survival, turkey numbers can increase very quickly.  Now, if you have very few hen turkeys in an area, even if you have a good hatch or two, you still are not going to increase your turkey numbers significantly.  However, if you have more hen turkeys in that population, and then have a good hatch or two, you can realistically increase your turkey numbers dramatically in a short time. 

So, why not have a program of supplementing turkey numbers,...and especially hen numbers,...by moving turkeys from places of plenty to places of concern?  I realize it costs some dollars to do that,....but no more dollars than were spent decades ago in the original T&T programs many states had. 

Yes, this is an "artificial" method of maintaining turkey numbers.  However, there appear to be places where it is the fastest "short term" solution to overcoming seriously declining turkey numbers in areas where that is occurring.  In addition, it is no more "artificial" than what happened those decades ago when our original T&T programs were initiated to expand turkey populations across the country.   

Admittedly, this does not solve the baseline problems that are impacting wild turkey numbers in some regions of the country.  It does, however, help to mitigate those problems by putting more turkeys "out there" so when there is a good year or two of reproductive success, those populations have a much better chance of rebounding.  Not only that, but this does not even consider the very real element of the impacts of adding genetic diversity within those turkey populations which, by itself, might solve one of the problems that might be affecting some populations.

While we are looking for long term solutions to declining turkey numbers in places, let's at least make sure there are enough birds there so that they have the opportunity when those good hatch years come around to take advantage of those conditions.

Our state is doing just fine with turkey populations....if you asked F&W or civilians they would tell you we have a turkey problem (in some portions). '21 initiatives include raising the bag limit and allowing rimfire for fall hunting during general gun season.

But we are a state that turkey's are Non-Native and although there is plenty of state without turkey that could sustain turkey or other places that could use a little boost  by moving the "problem" birds the state wont do it! Even if done by volunteer money because of the Non-Native part.

I'd love for a state to say they needed some birds so that we could give them away instead of wastefully shooting them away as F&W is progressing our rules to allow landowners to do. Because again they are a "nuisance"

[old3toe]

    Kylongspur that's exactly right too. We have big issues as far as that's concerned. The wma's I hunt are never checked hardly. I talk to a local warden here on occasion and i was telling him how I'm tired of the atvs and dirtbikes running everywhere. And how they've gotten really bad the last three or four years. He agreed they have and assured me they are doing all they can to catch and prosecute everyone they can and do catch on them. I didn't deer hunt the last two seasons because of some health issues but the 2017 and 2018 seasons almost every hunt I had to listen to atvs, side by sides, and dirt bikes. One particular hunt a guy and girl rode by me on a side by side and kept passing through. I assumed it was because they seen my vehicle parked at the head of the road bed. Anyway they kept raising hell on it til almost dark. I wasn't far from it. Then before they left they started slinging donuts up where I was parked. When I came out of the woods I checked things out and they had rocked my SUV on the gravel road. The ruts were so close to it I don't know how they didn't hit it! It was covered in fine pebbles and dust all over the front, windshield, and hood. I do my best to stay out of peoples way out there but things wouldn't have went so well if I would have witnessed it.
   Bottom line though like you said is there just isn't enough wardens to enforce the laws and stop this kinda thing and especially the poaching.

[HunterS5]

Great discussion.  Been listening to Michael Chamberlain based on recommendations here. Very interesting.

[Turkeytider]

Great discussion.  Been listening to Michael Chamberlain based on recommendations here. Very interesting.

Mike's one of us in addition to being a professional wildlife biologist. I personally think we should pay heed.

[Ol timer]

In NJ the numbers have went up last year by 111 covid birds, the numbers in general have been on a roller coaster every year since 2006 when the state records showed its highest numbers 3,454 birds harvested legally, and the lowest number in 2019 at 2,739.

[HunterS5]

Great discussion.  Been listening to Michael Chamberlain based on recommendations here. Very interesting.

Mike's one of us in addition to being a professional wildlife biologist. I personally think we should pay heed.

[Mo_turkey_hunter]

In southern Missouri where I live we had a ice storm back in 2000 and 2009. Ever since then hardly any turkeys. Just now I am starting to see more but I have been trapping for a couple years pretty hard. Killed a few bobcats while deer hunting and called in coyotes and killed them.
I do believe this has had a positive impact on our turkey. However Missouri's trapping season closes January 31 so you cannot trap in the crucial months leading up to the nesting season. I do believe this has been a key in the statewide turkey population decline. I wish they would open it up like they do in the south.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ol bob]

Get rid of some coons and crows and you will start seeing more turkeys, don't matter when you open the season they are still going to raid the nest and wipe out more turkeys than the hunters ever will.

[Gooserbat]

Predators, weather, disease,