First-Time Turkey Hunter Guide

[shaman]

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I'm bringing on an apprentice at Turkey Camp this year.  He's a 28-yr-old complete newbie. I figured I'd set down my thoughts on what to get and what to do, and share it with y'all.

Here is the first installment.
If I Were the New Guy at Turkey Camp  Part I

I've got several parts already written. More is coming.  Enjoy.

This is advice specifically for a new guy coming to our camp, located on 200 acres of private property in SW Bracken County, Kentucky.  It may or may not be the best advice your you.  Feel free to comment or email me if you have questions.

[GobbleNut]

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Interesting read, Shaman.  I agree more with some of your comments,...and less with others.  Again, as I have stated many times in the past, we all hunt under different circumstances and it is only reasonable to tailor our thoughts and positions on these matters based on where and how we hunt. 

On this particular subject of guns, ammo, and such, my only real position is every hunter, new or old, has the responsibility to "know their weapon" and its capabilities and then have the self-discipline to stay within those limitations.  Hunters also need to know their own personal limitations regarding such things as eyesight, as well, and as you point out, adjust their provisions for that, as needed.

Choices of guns, ammo, and the assorted accessories ultimately comes down to personal choices based on the understanding that we owe this bird we cherish the respect of dispatching him cleanly and completely when we pull the trigger.  The more limitations we put on ourselves in terms of the weapon and ammo choice, the more we need to understand that each deduction in killing ability needs to have a corresponding acceptance of a deduction in effective killing range. 

As I see it, one of the ethical problems we face in the hunting community are the hunters that are content with shooting a gun and load that have an effective killing range of, say, 30 yards,...but don't have the self discipline not to shoot at a gobbler at 40 or 50 yards.  Of course, that same argument can be made about the guy that shoots a gun and load that will honestly kill a gobbler at 50 yards that then chooses to shoot at a turkey at 60 or 70 yards. 

From a personal perspective, I have witnessed more of the former than I have the latter, but neither of them is acceptable to the ethical turkey hunter. 

[shaman]

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I've got a fair idea of what he's already got in his safe. Honestly, if he brought a  2 3/4" 12 GA, I'd be satisfied.  I don't want to see him spending gobs of money of shotguns and money on ammo his first time out.  Lead is fine for what we do at the farm.   I did a story years ago where I asked everyone to write down all their past shot attempts and then figure out the range diameter where 80% of those shots had been taken.  I figured that was their comfort range.  I included missed shots, because they were willing to take the shot. Folks grumbled. Guys responded that I had no business telling them how far to shoot.  My answer was: look, you're the one taking the shots. I'm just trying to say you may be over-gunning the problem.  A 3.5" 12 GA with a superfull choke and $8 loads may be bit more than you need if all your turkeys are being taken at 20 yards.  Also if FNG decides to buy a dedicated shotgun, I can help him put together a dandy pump that shoots decent patterns on the cheap.  My turkey shotgun for the past 25 years came out of the scratch and dent bin.

I'd always figured that I had a comfort range of 25 yards or thereabouts.  It turned out it was 17.5 yards.  Yes there were flyers. I'd taken a shot or two that was too far out (misjudged the range), but even with those thrown in, I was under 20 yards.  I freely admit, I've missed more inside 15 yards than beyond 40.  I actually have an 80 yarder, but it was a case of horribly misjudged distance and I had to engage in mortal hand-to-hand combat to close the deal.  Let me tell you, it's a fairly even match once they knock you off your feet-- won't be trying that again soon.

If he shows up with a reasonable rig, I can call a turkey in for him and he can have his chance at a shot.   

[g8rvet]

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Great thoughts.  When I was an FNG, my buddy took me and I killed one at 26 steps with my 870, mod choke and high brass #5.  Stone dead. 

You probably will get to this in part 2, but after you get him, at least one day shooting at paper with his gun and load.  My nephew took a guy out (that had a permit for a draw hunt) and he called a bird in to 20 steps, nice mature Gobbler.  The dude missed.  Just whiffed.  Took him home and his gun was 6" off, nephew swore the barrel was actually bent.  never thought to check. 

[BAMikeFoxtrot]

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Great read! thank you for that. This is my first year turkey hunting in South Carolina and first time hunting public land and not having a family member to call for me. I am extremely excited to get out there again because I have been stationed in Germany for the last 4 years.

Thanks,
Josh

[shaman]

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Thanks all.

I had FNG over to the house on Sunday and showed him the shamanic turkey battery and the shamanic turkey call collection.  I also downloaded all my turkey calling audios to a USB stick so he can ride around with them in the car.   There's so much to cover between now and April.

[Marc]

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Nice write-up...   I think most of us are going to "guide" newcomers according to our own as well as the "student's" backgrounds.

I am an avid duck hunter and bird hunter.  As most of my friends I am taking are already bird or duck hunters, I generally recommend they just use the gun they like the best, that is lightest in weight.  If they were new to hunting altogether, I would recommend a good all-purpose gun, and would likely put them on to a Winchester SX-3 or 4, or one of the lower priced Beretta shotguns.  Semi-auto's do reduce recoil, and are a better choice for waterfowl shooting with hot loads, or high-volume dove hunting.  Others will disagree, but they are getting my opinion...

Being a bird-hunter, I have zero use for sights.  Being as how most of my friends I am introducing into turkey hunting also bird hunters, I recommend sticking with the bead on the gun.  I have yet to take someone turkey hunting who missed a shot.

California is non-toxic, so I recommend Hevi-shot #6's.  Steel #4's will do in a pinch, but are a poor second.  The full choke that came with the gun is a fine choice for chokes, especially for the tighter patterning non-toxic shot such as Hevi-shot or steel.

I tell them to pattern the gun at 20 yards with a full choke using cheap target loads, firing three rounds at the same target to make sure the gun is shooting where they think, and then pattern at 30, and then at 40 yards using the same method.  Last shot is an actual turkey load at 40 yards, just to make sure it is a good pattern and shooting where the lead did.  I like to use one of those turkey picture patterning papers so that they get an idea of where their hold point will be for an actual turkey.

I also have a long  conversation about movement, and try to set them up in a hide that allows for "a mistake."  Generally, I am doing the calling, and will come up with signals...  For instance, when the bird is in range and presenting a good shot I will cluck.  If I call lightly without saying anything first it means "HOLD STILL."

As far as calls, I generally recommend a box call as the first call.  For duck hunters that can blow a call, or elk hunters that can already use a diaphragm, I might recommend a DD diaphragm call as well.  They can always fiddle with some of my calls to see what they like best as well.

Then there is the clothing...  For the hilly country I hunt, and the ground I cover, rubber boots are not a good choice.  Waterproof hunting boots or hiking boots are a better choice, and most already have them.  As most are already hunters, the camo is not usually an issue, and they'll usually send me a text or show me the clothing they want to wear; I can't remember ever telling someone to wear different clothes.

I would guess that my approach would be different for someone that is brand new to hunting, or crossing over from deer hunting and not really a wing-shooter.   The gun I would recommend would depend on what type of shooting they want to do in the future...  If they are not interested in duck hunting, my first choice would be a good pump...  Good for upland, dove, and clays, and not a bad gun to have in the house for self-defense.  I'd still probably have them stick to a bead, and upgrade as they get more committed to the sport.

[Paulmyr]

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Great write up. The only area I think I disagree with you is your premise that shooting a bead is like making a calculated guess. If time is taken and the bead is properly aligned on the rib (not sure how many guns made these days are with out a ventilated rib) just like you would lining up sights they are just as accurate.

I think the excitement factor may come into play and not aligning the bead/beads or sights causing shots to go awry. Easier to overcome the excitement with sights, possibly.

I have no experience with optics so can't say much about them.

[Dtrkyman]

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I was going to read that but passed, just my opinion but we tend to over complicate things as hunters.

I have taken more first time hunters than I can count, and simply put shooting a turkey with a shotgun is about as easy as it gets!

Anyone with half a brain invited to a camp as the new guy should simply respect the group and follow their rules.

I had a guy show up on a fully guided hunt with a brand new gun with a Ted dot, asked him how it shot and he said he didn’t know but they sighted it in at the shop,it was only bore sighted

He used my gun in the morning and killed a bird , then we spent some time at the lodge dialing in his gun.


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[High plains drifter]

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Interesting read, Shaman.  I agree more with some of your comments,...and less with others.  Again, as I have stated many times in the past, we all hunt under different circumstances and it is only reasonable to tailor our thoughts and positions on these matters based on where and how we hunt. 

On this particular subject of guns, ammo, and such, my only real position is every hunter, new or old, has the responsibility to "know their weapon" and its capabilities and then have the self-discipline to stay within those limitations.  Hunters also need to know their own personal limitations regarding such things as eyesight, as well, and as you point out, adjust their provisions for that, as needed.

Choices of guns, ammo, and the assorted accessories ultimately comes down to personal choices based on the understanding that we owe this bird we cherish the respect of dispatching him cleanly and completely when we pull the trigger.  The more limitations we put on ourselves in terms of the weapon and ammo choice, the more we need to understand that each deduction in killing ability needs to have a corresponding acceptance of a deduction in effective killing range. 

As I see it, one of the ethical problems we face in the hunting community are the hunters that are content with shooting a gun and load that have an effective killing range of, say, 30 yards,...but don't have the self discipline not to shoot at a gobbler at 40 or 50 yards.  Of course, that same argument can be made about the guy that shoots a gun and load that will honestly kill a gobbler at 50 yards that then chooses to shoot at a turkey at 60 or 70 yards. 

From a personal perspective, I have witnessed more of the former than I have the latter, but neither of them is acceptable to the ethical turkey hunter. I agree

I've got a fair idea of what he's already got in his safe. Honestly, if he brought a  2 3/4" 12 GA, I'd be satisfied.  I don't want to see him spending gobs of money of shotguns and money on ammo his first time out.  Lead is fine for what we do at the farm.   I did a story years ago where I asked everyone to write down all their past shot attempts and then figure out the range diameter where 80% of those shots had been taken.  I figured that was their comfort range.  I included missed shots, because they were willing to take the shot. Folks grumbled. Guys responded that I had no business telling them how far to shoot.  My answer was: look, you're the one taking the shots. I'm just trying to say you may be over-gunning the problem.  A 3.5" 12 GA with a superfull choke and $8 loads may be bit more than you need if all your turkeys are being taken at 20 yards.  Also if FNG decides to buy a dedicated shotgun, I can help him put together a dandy pump that shoots decent patterns on the cheap.  My turkey shotgun for the past 25 years came out of the scratch and dent bin.

I'd always figured that I had a comfort range of 25 yards or thereabouts.  It turned out it was 17.5 yards.  Yes there were flyers. I'd taken a shot or two that was too far out (misjudged the range), but even with those thrown in, I was under 20 yards.  I freely admit, I've missed more inside 15 yards than beyond 40.  I actually have an 80 yarder, but it was a case of horribly misjudged distance and I had to engage in mortal hand-to-hand combat to close the deal.  Let me tell you, it's a fairly even match once they knock you off your feet-- won't be trying that again soon.

If he shows up with a reasonable rig, I can call a turkey in for him and he can have his chance at a shot.   

I think 20 yards is average  for me. I think I've rubbed out 25 full blown gobblers in 30 years, and missed only once. I don't use a fancy shotgun. Missing a turkey inside of 40 yards, is not even fathonable to me.

[Paulmyr]

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 I concur with Highplains. Most were less than 25 yds. The only 2 gobblers I've shot at and not killed on sight in 30 yrs were my fault. The 1st was the 1st Tom I've ever shot at. Tried to shoot him in full strut. He rolled over. I got up and went to him right away but he was gone. Spent the next 3 hours looking for him. Every brush pile,downfall, anything I thought could hold a wounded turkey got thoroughly examined to no avail.

The second was shooting past the effective range of my gun choke combo about 10/15 years later.

Won't be making either of them mistakes again guaranteed.

[High plains drifter]

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This business of using a sight. You have to be kidding!!

[Greg Massey]

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Killed several turkeys with just lead loads. I still have one of my 12 setup for the Federal 3 in. 2 oz 5 shot.. i'm like you said, it was good load and i bought case of it and still have plenty. On the old double barrel, i still take it on couple hunts ever year with the old 2 3/4 Federal turkey load. I do agree with you on the scope it's a must for me most of the time also on my guns, the old eyes are not as good anymore.

[shaman]

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Great write up. The only area I think I disagree with you is your premise that shooting a bead is like making a calculated guess. If time is taken and the bead is properly aligned on the rib (not sure how many guns made these days are with out a ventilated rib) just like you would lining up sights they are just as accurate.

I think the excitement factor may come into play and not aligning the bead/beads or sights causing shots to go awry. Easier to overcome the excitement with sights, possibly.

I have no experience with optics so can't say much about them.

I started out with a trap gun with a vent rib and beads.  By the time I put a scope on shotgun, my eyes had deteriorated to the point where I just could not see the beads anymore.  As I've aged, that part of my eyesight has come back somewhat.   

If I remember correctly, I didn't suggest the scope was the best way to go, just the way I'd chosen.  My reason for calling beads a calculated guess is that you need some experience with the shotgun to know how the odd changes in mounting are going to play into POA vs. POI.  Ribs and beads were meant for wingshooting originally, and their effectiveness is based on practicing so that you mount the gun same way every time.  That does not always happen in turkey hunting.

At last I heard, FNG had picked a 20 GA pump with a rib.  Go figure.   I'm sure he'll do well.

[Paulmyr]

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Great write up. The only area I think I disagree with you is your premise that shooting a bead is like making a calculated guess. If time is taken and the bead is properly aligned on the rib (not sure how many guns made these days are with out a ventilated rib) just like you would lining up sights they are just as accurate.

I think the excitement factor may come into play and not aligning the bead/beads or sights causing shots to go awry. Easier to overcome the excitement with sights, possibly.

I have no experience with optics so can't say much about them.

I started out with a trap gun with a vent rib and beads.  By the time I put a scope on shotgun, my eyes had deteriorated to the point where I just could not see the beads anymore.  As I've aged, that part of my eyesight has come back somewhat.   

If I remember correctly, I didn't suggest the scope was the best way to go, just the way I'd chosen.  My reason for calling beads a calculated guess is that you need some experience with the shotgun to know how the odd changes in mounting are going to play into POA vs. POI.  Ribs and beads were meant for wingshooting originally, and their effectiveness is based on practicing so that you mount the gun same way every time.  That does not always happen in turkey hunting.

At last I heard, FNG had picked a 20 GA pump with a rib.  Go figure.   I'm sure he'll do well.

If your focusing on your bead wing shooting your doing it wrong. Your focus should be on the target not the end of your barrel. It is imperative you mount your gun properly and the same way every time. I don't even see my bead or rib when wing shooting. Turkey hunting you usually have plenty of time to make sure the bead is down and centered on the rib no matter how you mount the gun. Same as you would if shooting sights except the rib becomes the rear sight.