I am not often able to roost a bird the night before so I usually end up in an area that I know has birds and wait for the first gobbler to fire off. At that point I start making my way for him to find a setup. How close should I get at this point?
Last year I was able to get very close by moving quietly and I assume I did not spook him as he kept gobbling. However I did this 2-3 times and they always went the other direction. So, did he hear or see me even though he stayed in the tree and kept gobbling? Or maybe I just didn't get lucky?
Any tips are appreciated, still trying to figuring all this stuff out.
There are several factors you have to consider. What type of cover do you have early season open woods or later season a lot of foliage on. This will also change how I judge distance. Do you have to cross a open field do you have a terrain feature that can conceal your approach. Is it wet or dry windy or calm clear or cloudy sky dark or full moon. Without having a bird rooster and a good bead on the tree he is in and where he flew up from.Personally if I can get into what I consider to be 100 yards I feel like I am in really good shape. To me trying to get closer than that really gets down to number of steps and more times than not I have gone one step to many. The Eastern birds I chase generally don't start gobbling in pitch black dark and don't gobble on the limb all that long.
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Here are some questions that would be relevant to sorting out your dilemma:
How much hunting pressure does the area you are hunting get?
Did the gobbler have hens?
What calling strategy, if any, did you use?
Did you use a decoy(s)?
Did you set up where the gobbler had a direct line-of-sight to your set-up,...or did you have obstructions between you and him?
Decent amount of hunting pressure.
Yes there were several hens with him.
Light calling, just enough to let him know I was there. Possibly the wrong calling however.
No decoys.
Average timber, they were roosted overtop a small valley that went down to a creek bottom. Still pretty dark out, they kept gobbling until they flew down.
If you called and he had hens, they took him away from you. Happens all the time, almost every time. Hens are possessive
I hunted one gobbler four days in a row. He roosted in the same Sycamore on a small island each day. Every day I got w/in 80-100 yds. Set up in the same spot. On the first two mornings I called to him after first light. Each time he flew to other side of run w his hens. Third day a gang of jakes came in to me and he flew away from me again. Fourth and final day I snuck in super early in the dark and never made a sound. No calling, no fly down, no scratching...nothing.
He flew down after sunrise and landed 30 yards in front of my gun.
That's the bird in my avatar.
Quote from: Jeremy66 on March 13, 2020, 02:37:37 PM
Decent amount of hunting pressure.
Yes there were several hens with him.
Light calling, just enough to let him know I was there. Possibly the wrong calling however.
No decoys.
Average timber, they were roosted overtop a small valley that went down to a creek bottom. Still pretty dark out, they kept gobbling until they flew down.
Typical tough situation that many of us face. There are only so many tactics you can try and in some cases, any of them that involve calling are not going to work. Brwndg's approach is one that sometimes is the only practical alternative,...get in early and close, be quiet, and hope he comes down in range. One tactic hint: try using "wing-beat" noises and imitate turkeys flying down before any calling,...then call... (just a suggestion)
Quote from: Jeremy66 on March 13, 2020, 01:24:53 PM
So, did he hear or see me even though he stayed in the tree and kept gobbling?
No. If he'd seen you he would have quit Gobbling.
Where I hunt the most, roosting is useless. So I'm like you I have to wait for the first Gobble and go from there. Sometimes I hear one and cannot get closer or I have an idea what direction he is going so I move around him and cut him off. Sometimes if the Gobbler is in a bad spot with no good set up I keep quiet and let him fly down and go where ever he was going. Then if you know the terrain you can get around him.
The thing I see most with new hunters is they panic and think they have to get on the Gobbler immediately after he gobbles which usually ends up spooking him. Just as bad is being to cautious and he flys down and gets away before you make a move. ONLY experience will tell you what to do. There is no pat answer for anything on the subject of turkey hunting.
Slightly different situation for me as I hunt private ground with light hunting pressure, but it seems like every spring I run into a couple birds like you described...especially early in the season. Because I have other options, I will usually hunt them 3 or 4 mornings using some of the tricks/strategies that others have suggested and if I don't have any success, I'll back off and hunt other birds that I've scouted.
Then I'll come back and hunt him again later in the season when he might have less hens roosting with him or more often, due to heavier foliage, I'm able to get a closer/better set up on him.
Honestly although it's sometimes frustrating, you can learn a ton by hunting gobblers like these and it's rewarding if/when you finally manage to get him into range.....as long as tagging a bird isn't a big deal to you. Haha
I find henned up birds on the roost to be difficult...
Sometimes I will lay back, and observe what they do without calling or disturbing the birds and set up appropriately the next morning... Pretty much ambushing them at this point, and I always feel a bit cheated if I kill a turkey that I do NOT feel I called in...
Sometimes I address the hens.... If they are vocal on the roost, I answer the hens, and forget about the gobbling. Sometimes they pitch down and head away from the competition, sometimes they get fired up and come right at what they think is the intruding hen....
If addressing the hens does not work, I do some aggressive hen calling followed by some gobbling, and hope that the toms come to address the intruding bird....
When none of the above works, I begin swearing and cursing the birds for not cooperating with me... Seems I often do a lot of swearing during the turkey season.
Call to him while he's on the roost. Get him turned around and thinking your direction.
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Although there are some instances where I will, I almost never call to a bird until he's on the ground. The closer I am, the more so that holds true.
I have a couple spots where I always seem to find roosted birds within perhaps a 100-150 yard area. I get in there when dark and set up...not standing by a tree, but set up. If one gobbles close, I'm good to go. If he gobbles too far away, I can always get up and move a bit. Fairly often I end up calling from where I've set up. The other advantage of this is that on a number of occasions I'm amongst hens. If I had been standing there listening, then try to position and set up, I don't think they would like it!
I enjoy hunting Kansas farm land with crop fields. Gobblers often roost within 30-60 yards of the field they'll be strutting in. I like to setup a yard or 2 from field edge & give a subtle yelp & a few clucks before flydown & have a realistic Jake & hen decoys set up about 15 or so yards in the field. At flydown they sometimes will come down near the decoys if they notice them from roost...but if if they flydown to middle of field with hens they will often come checkout my decoys eventually.
My favorite hunt ever I had my grandson (maybe 9 or 10 then) with me in this exact scenario. Three big gobblers flew over him and landed near my decoys. He shot his first & I got one after him! He was so excited and told me he started to shoot them as they flew over him! ???? I explained that he would have almost certainly missed AND he might have shot a HEN anyway!!
My best hunting memory with my oldest grandson! ????????
A sequel to my story with my first Grandson:
The year before he took the gobbler he was with on a hunt with me on the same farm in Kansas. Same setup as described earlier but gobblers landed in middle of field instead of near my setup. After an hour or more strutting in the middle it the field ONE GOBBLER decided to come checkout my setup near the wood line so I slowly raise my shotgun to be ready to shoot and GRANDSON QUICKLY RAISED BOTH ARMS & PUT HANDS OVER HIS EARS!!!
As you probably guessed, the Strutter SPOOKED & scared all the birds from the field! It was a learning experience for both of us! ????????????
Quote from: EZ on March 14, 2020, 06:30:26 PM
Although there are some instances where I will, I almost never call to a bird until he's on the ground. The closer I am, the more so that holds true.
I would generally agree with that statement... Unless there are hens, and they fly down first...
Once those hens are on the ground, the gobblers are going to follow them, and if I can make them mad and come over to address me, sometimes it works out...
With hens in the game, I forget about the toms and the gobbling, and work on those hens... I start calling as soon as the hens are on the ground (which almost always happens before the toms come off the roost). When they do come in to challenge me, they are generally vocal, and they sound angry (and ready for a fight).
Quote from: Marc on March 15, 2020, 09:38:23 PM
Quote from: EZ on March 14, 2020, 06:30:26 PM
Although there are some instances where I will, I almost never call to a bird until he's on the ground. The closer I am, the more so that holds true.
I would generally agree with that statement... Unless there are hens, and they fly down first...
Once those hens are on the ground, the gobblers are going to follow them, and if I can make them mad and come over to address me, sometimes it works out...
With hens in the game, I forget about the toms and the gobbling, and work on those hens... I start calling as soon as the hens are on the ground (which almost always happens before the toms come off the roost). When they do come in to challenge me, they are generally vocal, and they sound angry (and ready for a fight).
Yep, if he`s got hens, you might as well forget him and start trying to pick a fight with the hens. I think that in the vast majority of times that`s the only chance you have. It`s tough, but fun, because that`s a time that you can and should get on the call aggressively.
I still wait 'til they are on the ground. Often, if you're set up right (or get lucky) the hens will feed right towards you. If not, I've soft called a lot more hens in than aggressive called. Soft feeding contentment purrs, whines and yelps and soft kee kees very often brings hens in for me. If they see me as aggressive competition they more than often take their gobbler away. :(
Quote from: Jeremy66 on March 13, 2020, 01:24:53 PM
I am not often able to roost a bird the night before so I usually end up in an area that I know has birds and wait for the first gobbler to fire off. At that point I start making my way for him to find a setup. How close should I get at this point?
Last year I was able to get very close by moving quietly and I assume I did not spook him as he kept gobbling. However I did this 2-3 times and they always went the other direction. So, did he hear or see me even though he stayed in the tree and kept gobbling? Or maybe I just didn't get lucky?
Any tips are appreciated, still trying to figuring all this stuff out.
This happened to me a lot with an older public land bird. This was a bird that knew that the hens go to him. He would sit in that tree and gobble his head off until he recruited hens and then flew away with them. Then he would be zipped tight all day. He would gobble to my soft calls in the tree but fly away from me, he would then strut and he gobbled a couple times while he was walking away with his hen.
The hen probably flew away from me because of the "competition" and he followed the hen that was visually in front of him.
So to sum things up...
I think they gobble, aren't spooked but expect the hen to come to them... after a while of no hen showing up, they fly off the opposite direction of the soft calls because they assume the hen should have come to them. Maybe a safety precaution for them, mainly because it's something from outside the norm. Everytime I encountered a gobbling Tom, and a vocal hen, she was on her way to the gobbler.
I believe a visual aid like a decoy would help prevent the gobbler from flying the opposite direction.
Personally, I think some folks all too often fail to take into account a turkey's ability to associate certain stimuli with danger. There is no doubt in my mind that older-age-class hen turkeys that have witnessed "their" gobblers being killed year after year by going to unseen turkey calling begin to associate any such calling with danger,...and go away from it.
You can be hunting a gobbler that might be perfectly willing to come to your calling IF he was alone, but will be with hens that will lead him away regardless of how you approach calling to them. That is why it is so often easier to kill one of those gobblers later in the morning, assuming he ends up by himself.
There are places I hunt that I KNOW that I cannot hunt the birds off the roost by using any sort of "normal" calling tactics because I know the hens have "learned" and are going to go away from any calling every single time. Once a hunter establishes that he is hunting one of those situations, he has to go to "plan B",...which is to try to establish a pattern of behavior with that group of turkeys and hunt them based on that pattern.
Sometimes that is simply getting between them and where they want to go (and having enough self-control not to call to them),...and sometimes it is hunting that gobbler later in the day and hoping that his hens have departed.
Einstein coined the phrase "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". I think it might often be applicable in turkey hunting.... :)
Excellent post GobbleNut. I agree because I have run into this more times than I can count and have continued to do the same thing over and over until the light finally came on! Keep doing what your doing and you will keep getting what your getting.
Jeremy66, I hunted one on the roost one time, and the 3rd day I was able to get close to his roost tree and he flew down and walked away gobbling and I would follow....never could close the deal. Well, later that day I went back to his roost tree and marked a trail going out that I could find the next morning and knew exactly where I was going to sit...got in there in the dark as tight to him as I could get. Just like clock work he sounded off at first light, maby 30-40 yds. from my set up. I was ready for that first gobble, and just as he started his gobble, I clucked one time before he finished that gobble. He came right back, gobbled real hard...I said nothing. Few minutes passed, and he let out with another gobble....cut him off again with another cluck...only one. This went on for several gobbles and I got the feeling he would fly down on opposite side of his tree, wanting me to follow him. Well, I prop my gun beside the tree and stand up, turn around and start running away...making noise in the leaves. I get like 15 to 20 yds from my tree and cluck a couple times with a ole Lynch box call, tucked up under my coat and took lid and shook it...sounding like a gobble. Immediately started running fast as could back to my tree, sat down grabbed my gun, pulled face mask down, and here he comes down thru the limbs landing directly in front of me....like 15 yards. Killed him soon as his feet hit the ground. What he thought was a gobbler was after that hen doing all that clucking and he dropped right in my lap. Give it a try if you got the right set-up where you can get tight on him.
:whip2:
I took my bro in law on his first turkey hunt. He tried to shoot one at 50yds and missed. You never know what a turkey gonna do until you watch a few days. Its time to go to war with that turkey.
Boom
sounds like he had flown down with hens and THEY drug him away from the intruder "you"
You are talking about what is in my experience one of the hardest situations in turkey hunting. You have a Tom gobbling allowing you to pin point his location but the sun likely has begun to shed some light greatly increasing your risk of getting spotted by by a hen which is most likely the scenario, as I have been busted by hens sneaking up on a still roosted gobbling Tom at about a factor of at least 10-1 VS Toms.
When I am faced with this situation I travel as fast as I safely can including jogging if possible till I get best guess 120 or so yards from the gobbling Tom or as close as cover will allow but at as soon as I have determined the group of trees the gobbler is in I use my binos to try to spot him and any other turkeys roosting with him that are reaming quiet and then proceed accordingly.
There simply are no fast and hard rules as every situation is different. Last year hunting with my sons my friend and I were faced with this exact situation. I had a VERY good idea where several turkeys and at least two Toms were roosted. The cover and topography allowed us to get with in 70 yards of the birds and set up while it was still dark. We called in four Toms and my one son was successful the other missed.
Lastly I am of the opinion if you are very sure or absolutely sure where one of more toms are roosted it is worth the risk of spooking other roosted turkeys you don't know about on your way to ones you know are, sometimes you have to take a few risks if you wish to be successful.
Even if there are no hens involved I will wait until I figure he's about ready to fly down. Then I'll give him a couple clucks or tree yelps...very quiet. He'll almost always respond and, whether he does or not, I'm done with any calling until he actually flies down. The reason I do that is I want him thinking in my direction. Now...if you have a bird patterned and most of the time he's going to fly down in your direction then do nothing until he does.
Quote from: Turkeyman on March 30, 2020, 07:25:40 AM
Even if there are no hens involved I will wait until I figure he's about ready to fly down. Then I'll give him a couple clucks or tree yelps...very quiet. He'll almost always respond and, whether he does or not, I'm done with any calling until he actually flies down. The reason I do that is I want him thinking in my direction. Now...if you have a bird patterned and most of the time he's going to fly down in your direction then do nothing until he does.
My strategy is very similar to yours, Turkeyman. I usually do not call at all until 1) I hear hens that are with the gobbler start up,...or 2) I haven't heard hens and I believe the gobbler is thinking about flying down. If there are hens with him and they start tree calling, I am more likely to join in with a few calls myself just to get their attention,...especially the gobbler's.
When I anticipate it's flydown time, I am going to be the first bird on the ground, if possible. I will imitate a turkey flying down and landing, wait a few seconds, and then give out a few, soft, "I'm on the ground waiting" yelps. Personally, I think that little bit of additional realism really makes a difference. I also add short, "wing-adjustment" noises at times, as well.
Observing turkeys coming off the roost over the years, it seems that when that first hen comes out of the tree, wherever she lands is where the other turkeys will zero in on and start flying to the same location,...or nearby. I want to establish that landing pad first if I can.
Of course, patterning,...or at least making a logical guess as to where they fly down,... comes into play a bit, too. If you establish that landing pad in a spot that the turkeys never would fly to, they are likely to ignore your invitation to join you where you are.
Even if you guess wrong on the landing pad, however, adding the wing beat sounds seems to put the turkeys at ease that the hen they heard is the real deal,...and I think they are more likely to come take a look at some point. ...Just my thoughts on a suggestion for those roost hunts....